Guild Wars 2

I’m really surprised I can’t find others complaining about this. The only few dungeons I’ve done were really challenging and pretty hilarious with a group of friends. But, just zerging any bosses that are at all challenging completely ruins it.

What do I mean by zerging? Dying repeatedly at a boss and just being able to instantly WP travel and run back to the fight, while whoever is left keeps them busy in the mean time. Why it was decided/left to be like this is so confusing to me. It really turns otherwise challenging dungeon bosses into mindless charging. I just…can’t personally explain why it’s like this.

I remember once so far it was pretty much impossible for my group to use this strategy. Wasn’t a boss, but traps + ranged mobs waiting on a choke point. My team was actually forced to sit and strategize and actually change some skills/weapons to be able to do it! Probably my best dungeon moment so far.

Before it’s brought up. “Just don’t do it” Doesn’t quite work either. It’s there, it’s going to be used by anyone. Dungeons are supposed to be ragetasticly hard and this just almost completely removes that element. I know it’s not supposed to be an integral part of dungeons either. Everything is possibly without dying, just hard, but not hard thanks to this. It really is just being used as a crutch and the possibly unique rewards from dungeons aren’t going to be worth akitten

Even though I know there is that option to run back I still try my best not to die and most of the time I don’t die.

Before this game released I played a game in which when you die people had a limited amount of time to pick you up and if they do not get you then you’re locked out of the fight until it’s over. People use to complain about this all the time. So I think it’s funny that you’re complaining that you can run back.

Personally though I don’t think being able to port back takes away from having a strategy, instead it gives your team a second chance.

I will drop from any group that doesn’t use any strategy — simple as that. If someone dies, fine, sometimes is inevitable. Just waypoint your way back into the fight. But when you see a blue train of brainless dots running back, over and over without regrouping and trying to one-man tank a boss, the challenge is gone.

Totally agree, it is my biggest concern with dungeons and the game right now.
Sadly most peoply want it easier, not harder, and it would be considerably harder that way. Either the dungeons were adapted a bit, or people would complain the hell out of here, because most wouldnt be able to do anything in dungeons, especially random groups. If you ask me, i would rather have the dungeons as they are minus the zerg-die-run thing, even if the dungeons would be though as nails. But most people wouldnt agree with that i suppose.

And for the reason why it is that way:
Because balancing and tuning bosses so they are challenging, requiring the utilisation of combat mechanics to good effekt and teamwork, without making it for some groupcomposition impossible/boring would be difficult and a lot of efford, if not outright impossible.
But for me, that zerg-die-run is possible even in exploreable-mode is absolutly awful.

Pangie.3217:

Even though I know there is that option to run back I still try my best not to die and most of the time I don’t die.

Before this game released I played a game in which when you die people had a limited amount of time to pick you up and if they do not get you then you’re locked out of the fight until it’s over. People use to complain about this all the time. So I think it’s funny that you’re complaining that you can run back.

Personally though I don’t think being able to port back takes away from having a strategy, instead it gives your team a second chance.

Those people are the typical complainers that want everything to be easy to just mindlessly get through. Just like whenever WoW has new ‘harder’ dungeons. I know Anet are ones to stick to their guns, but I don’t get why they are letting us WP like this. I think it has something to do with the rewards currently being so bleh…

I don’t know… I’m of two minds. I like hard dungeons but on the other hand when my group was just incapable of doing it well it made me feel like a flipping hero standing their dodging and tanking the boss while everyone else ran back. Without the option I’d have never felt like such a bad a**.

I like them the way they are. The deciding factor on if you finish or not is time and the coin you have. I think that is the way it should be. I recently did a explorable mode with my guild. We were trying to figure out how to beat a event. We eventually said that we would get back to it later as it was costing us too much in game coin. Death is the punishment. Having to restart the dungeon is not fun. You could always make it harder on yourself and leave the dungeon if you feel the group should have wiped.

anzenketh.3759:

I like them the way they are. The deciding factor on if you finish or not is time and the coin you have. I think that is the way it should be.

Well, that’s completely contradictory to the words I heard from the devs themselves. Almost entirely. Dungeons aren’t supposed to be time spent and general wealth. That just makes players that play more do better. Very against the philosophy of GW2.

My take on all of this has always been that dungeons are very skill based and provide unique rewards for those that manage to do it. Rewards such as unique looking gear. It would take a really good amount of teamwork to succeed. The way it is now just doesn’t support very much teamwork besides “I kept the boss busy while my team ran back”. It’s practically not even worth helping downed teammates at times.

Sprinkles.6748:

I’m really surprised I can’t find others complaining about this. The only few dungeons I’ve done were really challenging and pretty hilarious with a group of friends. But, just zerging any bosses that are at all challenging completely ruins it.

What do I mean by zerging? Dying repeatedly at a boss and just being able to instantly WP travel and run back to the fight, while whoever is left keeps them busy in the mean time. Why it was decided/left to be like this is so confusing to me. It really turns otherwise challenging dungeon bosses into mindless charging. I just…can’t personally explain why it’s like this.

I remember once so far it was pretty much impossible for my group to use this strategy. Wasn’t a boss, but traps + ranged mobs waiting on a choke point. My team was actually forced to sit and strategize and actually change some skills/weapons to be able to do it! Probably my best dungeon moment so far.

Before it’s brought up. “Just don’t do it” Doesn’t quite work either. It’s there, it’s going to be used by anyone. Dungeons are supposed to be ragetasticly hard and this just almost completely removes that element. I know it’s not supposed to be an integral part of dungeons either. Everything is possibly without dying, just hard, but not hard thanks to this. It really is just being used as a crutch and the possibly unique rewards from dungeons aren’t going to be worth akitten

This is hard for me, because on one end the dungeons are pretty darn hard, not so much skill wise but memorizing the quick animations bosses make for each skill, also trying to watch this through a spell storm from your group mates.

On the other hand, I do agree that mindless zerging takes the challenge out of it.

I’m not sure what could be implemented to help polish this, because if there’s a lock out timer, people would never want to bring people new to the dungeon along, and a new group would get murdered for a very long time, spending a lot of silver to repair, even more than what some are spending now.

Now I know the dungeons are beatable, I just four manned AC last night ( might not seem much to you guys but I was pretty proud since one guy was new to the dungeon), but that doesn’t mean they are a walk in the park.

You have to find that fine line between the challenge being ruined and people rage quitting.

I know a lot of people want to say "The heck with those people who give up " but they DO make up a lot of the current players, and we should never want to say players leave.

The only idea I can think of is to maybe raise repair prices per person more and more as people die, not locking people out, but causing them to take pause and think things through.

Again, just an idea, and sorry for rambling.

Experience may vary, but while that happens a lot in bad story mode groups (story modes are meant to be trivial…the option to just pop back in the fight is part of that), I have found that most of the time in explorable, you can’t easily come back. Either the waypoint is too far, either the fight is made such that once the person controlling the fight goes down, its basically over. I rarely have time to come back (it happens, but its not the norm), so we almost always have to do the fight in one shot.

Millage may vary, i suppose

Looking back over the last dozen dungeon runs, I’ve never died more than once in a dungeon, and more often than not, I don’t die at all.

My first couple dungeon runs, yeah, we ended up with people in their underwear.

There is a learning curve. It’s best to make your way up it.

Shados.1306:

Experience may vary, but while that happens a lot in bad story mode groups (story modes are meant to be trivial…the option to just pop back in the fight is part of that), I have found that most of the time in explorable, you can’t easily come back. Either the waypoint is too far, either the fight is made such that once the person controlling the fight goes down, its basically over. I rarely have time to come back (it happens, but its not the norm), so we almost always have to do the fight in one shot.

Millage may vary, i suppose

From my experience there is very few times it is too far. Also, they provide waypoints further up as you go along. Which…doesn’t help this case.

Sprinkles.6748:

I’m really surprised I can’t find others complaining about this. The only few dungeons I’ve done were really challenging and pretty hilarious with a group of friends. But, just zerging any bosses that are at all challenging completely ruins it.

What do I mean by zerging? Dying repeatedly at a boss and just being able to instantly WP travel and run back to the fight, while whoever is left keeps them busy in the mean time. Why it was decided/left to be like this is so confusing to me. It really turns otherwise challenging dungeon bosses into mindless charging. I just…can’t personally explain why it’s like this.

I remember once so far it was pretty much impossible for my group to use this strategy. Wasn’t a boss, but traps + ranged mobs waiting on a choke point. My team was actually forced to sit and strategize and actually change some skills/weapons to be able to do it! Probably my best dungeon moment so far.

Before it’s brought up. “Just don’t do it” Doesn’t quite work either. It’s there, it’s going to be used by anyone. Dungeons are supposed to be ragetasticly hard and this just almost completely removes that element. I know it’s not supposed to be an integral part of dungeons either. Everything is possibly without dying, just hard, but not hard thanks to this. It really is just being used as a crutch and the possibly unique rewards from dungeons aren’t going to be worth akitten

+1 on my behalf. It puzzles me that they made such a decision, but it’s not too late for a fix.

Sprinkles.6748:

I’m really surprised I can’t find others complaining about this. The only few dungeons I’ve done were really challenging and pretty hilarious with a group of friends. But, just zerging any bosses that are at all challenging completely ruins it.

What do I mean by zerging? Dying repeatedly at a boss and just being able to instantly WP travel and run back to the fight, while whoever is left keeps them busy in the mean time. Why it was decided/left to be like this is so confusing to me. It really turns otherwise challenging dungeon bosses into mindless charging. I just…can’t personally explain why it’s like this.

I remember once so far it was pretty much impossible for my group to use this strategy. Wasn’t a boss, but traps + ranged mobs waiting on a choke point. My team was actually forced to sit and strategize and actually change some skills/weapons to be able to do it! Probably my best dungeon moment so far.

Before it’s brought up. “Just don’t do it” Doesn’t quite work either. It’s there, it’s going to be used by anyone. Dungeons are supposed to be ragetasticly hard and this just almost completely removes that element. I know it’s not supposed to be an integral part of dungeons either. Everything is possibly without dying, just hard, but not hard thanks to this. It really is just being used as a crutch and the possibly unique rewards from dungeons aren’t going to be worth akitten

AGREE. I think my biggest issue is WPs that ruin my experience in Dungeon, because it’s no challenging , no stress there, when they die they just respawn at WPs and running back to fight again, I know when you die you will lose some costs for fixing armors and WPs but it’s not enough for players in late game especially wealth players wouldn’t care so much about fixing cost.

If you want to “develop strategy” for dungeons you need a group of friends and vent or people who know the dungeon like the back of their hands. The mobs in this game all hit like mac trucks and there are no healers or tanks. Put that together with the fact that most people running dungeons haven’t ran them before, and you have people who go in with the intention of being strategic, using their shield, toughness traits and defensive skills, carefully checking corners and pulling. Only to get 1 shotted by a stray fireball or dropped in milliseconds from a group of hounds, only to rez at a graveyard 2 ft away. Can you really blame people for graveyard zerging?

Also, if you want to know indepth on how our 2 runs went last night, you should be able to read it here at my guild’s forum page

Zetsubou.8431:

If you want to “develop strategy” for dungeons you need a group of friends and vent or people who know the dungeon like the back of their hands. The mobs in this game all hit like mac trucks and there are no healers or tanks. Put that together with the fact that most people running dungeons haven’t ran them before, and you have people who go in with the intention of being strategic, using their shield, toughness traits and defensive skills, carefully checking corners and pulling. Only to get 1 shotted by a stray fireball or dropped in milliseconds from a group of hounds, only to rez at a graveyard 2 ft away. Can you really blame people for graveyard zerging?

Yes, I can blame them, and I do blame them. They are bad. Not only are they bad, they then come to the forums and demand ArenaNet conform to them and follow suit with other games to meet the lowest common denominator with difficulty. I wish they would just leave already and go back to the scum filled hole of a game they crawled of.

Efaicia.3672:

Zetsubou.8431:

If you want to “develop strategy” for dungeons you need a group of friends and vent or people who know the dungeon like the back of their hands. The mobs in this game all hit like mac trucks and there are no healers or tanks. Put that together with the fact that most people running dungeons haven’t ran them before, and you have people who go in with the intention of being strategic, using their shield, toughness traits and defensive skills, carefully checking corners and pulling. Only to get 1 shotted by a stray fireball or dropped in milliseconds from a group of hounds, only to rez at a graveyard 2 ft away. Can you really blame people for graveyard zerging?

Yes, I can blame them, and I do blame them. They are bad. Not only are they bad, they then come to the forums and demand ArenaNet conform to them and follow suit with other games to meet the lowest common denominator with difficulty. I wish they would just leave already and go back to the scum filled hole of a game they crawled of.

all the bad players not buying the game and playing it would mean less money for anet to develop all this content you enjoy…it would also mean that players like you would have to pay MORE money for games that did not appeal to bad players…

also, dont play with strangers if you dont want a chance to play with bad players…

play with your friends whom you know are not bad players…