Guild Wars 2

I know a lot of people use exploits in dungeons to make them ‘easier’ and quicker, but this is almost never true. Most of the time, the party wipes more frequently because if any one screws it up it fails. My best examples for this are the side stepping the mobs to lupi on all paths, and AC p3.

What most people do in Arah, is hug that left wall as to not aggro any enemies, but even with the most seasoned Arah veterans some one aggros a single enemy. Now one enemy shouldn’t wipe the party right? Well it does, because to kill it, it aggros more and more and at best one enemy dies. I found that clearing the area of enemies takes about 3 min, I know that cause Lich Form was on recharge. You may be thinking “but if it’s done perfectly it only takes 1min to make it” yeah, maybe but wiping on lupi means you have to do it again, where as murdering them all means it takes the 10s to walk to lupi.

Remember Collosus Rumblus before the patch? Yeah he wasn’t too bad was he? Have you tried killing him after the patch with out climbing on that wall thing? He’s still easy, just different. What you may do, or know some one that does, is they stack on the wall and beat him down from a distance. That makes him easier, yes, but for the glitch to work you have to not aggro him, all hide in the corner at the same location and have one person bring him over, have that person climb back on the wall with out dying, other wise you have to start all over again. I can do it properly in 2min. He’s got no hp. It seems like he does when you can only attack from a range, but he doesn’t. I’ve had parties quit at this part because they can’t glitch it right, and refuse to do it normally. Mull that one over.

Pretty much this.

On those skipping exploits – somebody always aggs something somewhere and then it ends up taking 10 minutes to skip a 2 minute fight…

Oh look, a thinly veiled anti-skipping thread.

Skipping is not an exploit, your argument is invalid.

Can’t say for today’s dungeons, but I miss old Arah, where you could jump on the wall north from the starting area and go for Path 1bosses backwards. It didn’t really make runs fasters (I think it even made them longer) but it was lots of fun, especially jumping on walls south of lupi’s arena using an Experimental Teleportation Gun. There probably were groups that could use it to make it 10mins it, but it was the best content (unplanned, lol) I have experienced, with great people around me.

I think it’s the part where skipping is “skill” since it’s not easy to do. And skill should be rewarded. That’s what I think.

And I’ve seen bad group spending hour taking the boss down in AC. So that’s why they are glitching. Maybe it’s not worth for you since you can do it easy anyway, but certainly not for them. I actually joined a few AC run where people are on last boss, and they say they spend like 1+ hour on the last boss.

Hooglese.4860:

I know a lot of people use exploits in dungeons to make them ‘easier’ and quicker, but this is almost never true. Most of the time, the party wipes more frequently because if any one screws it up it fails.

Actually most of the time the skip goes fine and it cuts down on lots of wasted time and effort clearing garbage mobs that don’t reward anything worthwhile. There, I resoundingly defeated your argument.

The skipping part does get mentioned alot.
That’s expected, it’s a controversial topic. I know it’s annoying to keep hearing about it, but that’s just what controversial topics tend to do.

But OP did say something else that really doesn’t get alot of play.
Which is taking forever and a dog’s year to daintily plink away at bosses from afar as opposed to wiping the floor with them up close and personal. I have to agree, and I have a tendency to encourage my groups to try it the quicker way first. It hasn’t come back to haunt me yet.

I wouldn’t go as far as calling avoiding or running past enemies an exploit, but I see the point you’re trying to make.

I run a lot of dungeons and typically I’ve found skipping to be more efficient even with Inexperienced players. However the one exception of this may be Twilight Arbor where skipping with inexperienced players, or even just someone making a mistake, can actually cost time due to the difficulty of the run (lots of CC effects, blossoms, distance) and lack of waypoints.

The problem with skipping on a regular basis, you get so used to just blindly running past everything and end up forgetting how to do basic encounters should the need to fight arise. That’s how most wipes end up occurring, since most people are so insistent on skipping as much as they can, or were just taught that way from the very beginning, that they don’t even know how to fight anything at all, much less why they skip in the first place.

The playerbase in general is just lazy as hell and determined to find the path that takes the least amount of work, even when the original path isn’t even that bad to begin with.

Broadicea.8294:

Actually most of the time the skip goes fine and it cuts down on lots of wasted time and effort clearing garbage mobs that don’t reward anything worthwhile. There, I resoundingly defeated your argument.

Except clearing the trash mobs also gives you more chances at loot, including salvage fodder, some chances at higher tier crafting mats, loot bags that have additional dungeon tokens, and maybe even an occasional rare or exotic.

I just killed your argument and threw the corpse in a ditch.

PolishSausage.1279:

Broadicea.8294:

Actually most of the time the skip goes fine and it cuts down on lots of wasted time and effort clearing garbage mobs that don’t reward anything worthwhile. There, I resoundingly defeated your argument.

Except clearing the trash mobs also gives you more chances at loot, including salvage fodder, some chances at higher tier crafting mats, loot bags that have additional dungeon tokens, and maybe even an occasional rare or exotic.

I just killed your argument and threw the corpse in a ditch.

Yeah, that extra blue that vendors for 86c is definitely worth the time.

My last line in that post was poking at the OP for not really offering any evidence whatsoever, and premising his argument upon his experience being universal. It’s not. I typically ask that my dungeon groups do the trash runs unless clearing is fairly certain to be safer and faster. I’d say something like 80-plus percent of trash runs go perfectly smooth, even in PUGs.

I run new people through Arah p3 3-4 times per week, sometimes more. Even with new people we aggro maybe 1 out 4 runs. Usually I just target him, pull him in and kill him without aggroing more. Even if we die, which is rare, we always make it through on the second run. There is no way it takes 3 minutes to kill every mob in that room. They’re all silver (which are relatively tough in Arah exp) that I know of, plus a champ.

I often do that run in less than 30 minutes, that would definitely not be possible with killing everything, or just everything in that room.

laharl.8435:

I run new people through Arah p3 3-4 times per week, sometimes more. Even with new people we aggro maybe 1 out 4 runs. Usually I just target him, pull him in and kill him without aggroing more. Even if we die, which is rare, we always make it through on the second run. There is no way of takes 3 minutes to kill every mob in that room. They’re all silver (which are relatively tough in Arah exp) that I know of, plus a champ.

I often do that run in less than 30 minutes, that would definitely not be possible with killing everything, or just everything in that room.

Pretty much this. Even the time my group managed to aggro an extra mob while someone was pulling the abominations, we still killed the group with no issue. As far as the other issue raised, that of using terrain exploits to akitten-kill a boss, I couldn’t agree more. It really is sad when a fight that’s not a real threat to start with gets cheapened even further because people want to akitten-range it.

Skipping, though, is not an exploit.

Nikaido.3457:

The developers themselves have said that skipping is not considered an exploit. It’s a valid strategy. They’d rather we didn’t skip but it’s not an exploit.

Climbing the wall to kill Colosus Rumblus though is.
You have no clue how many times I’ve been in a party that wiped because one person was all like “guys, I know the perfect spot, you all stand right here!”, the party does, he aggroes the boss, the boss kills the whole party because a glitch that should have worked didn’t and the person then goes on to say “guys you did it wrong” and insists that everyone should do it again because it saves time. The funny thing is that if done properly boss fights in AC are not that hard or slow.

I regulary run arah in 15-20 minutes. Almost never with a full party until alphard/wraithlord/jotun stargazer.

I want to see anyone doing that without “exploiting” (skipping). Noone will be able to, therefore can anyone tell me how it isn’t worth it?

Spider queen shouldn’t have been made unskippable, the most stupid idea Anet ever had regarding the AC revamp.

Followed close by making the colossus rumbulus fight based on a kittened suicidal NPC.

I honestly love the Colossus Rumblus fight, because it feels like a send-up to classic trinity design, in a dungeon filled with long-dead ghosts of the past (SYMBOLISM). Your entire group, collectively, needs to be the healer / DPS. Grast is the tank: he blocks the big attack for you. Can you keep him alive to do it?

helps when grasts actually casts the kitten bubble instead of continue to attack normally and leave us to die. as for the arah thing running past stuff isnt an “exploit” its just poor dungeon design, that rumblus wall thing is lame tho.

helps when grasts actually casts the kitten bubble instead of continue to attack normally and leave us to die.

This, Hodge’s stupid feature on 2nd scepter and Detha featuring out at traps are the main reasons we (my group) stopped running AC altogether.

Your first arguement is invalid. A “seasoned veteran” usually won’t pull anything, or would know how to get rid of it. Skipping is not an exploit, as many have said.

Fighting colussus on the wall is incredibly stupid. I’ve been in two groups that tried it and failed miserably. I then had to explain how the boss fight worked and they all said it was a lot easier once they understood it.

There is no point to doing the dungeons at all. None. As much would be accomplished by typing backslash dance in LA and going akitten for an hour. The argument that mobs are pointless is missing the entire point of even playing this game at all.

Still skipping makes sense in many cases. AC gravelings are just animals so why not just slip past them. SE is in a state of revolt and chaos I believe so why shouldnt it be possible to slip through in all that chaos. I buy into that skipping can be more fun and challenging then fighting straight through.

Example SE path 3 IMO. Running along pipe and jumping down to first champ is fun. Standing on the block where he cannot touch you is not fun. Jumping down, running across the bridge, and jumping to the ledges is fun. Two manning the second champ because the rest could not make it is fun. Probably not for the rest though. Standing in the safe spot killing the APC is not fun but is handy if you need to change a load of laundry or take the dog out for a quick p. Standing on the platform akitten while auto attack kills the final boss is not fun. Stacking the final boss is kind if fun. Running around in the open killing the final boss is alot of fun.

Slither Shade.4782:

There is no point to doing the dungeons at all. None.

I manage to make around 20g/hour when running arah and having lots of fun doing so.
How is there no point in doing dungeons?

People stack on AC P3 because the AI is complete trash and will flat out refuse to use the shield skill, causing an instant wipe of the entire party. That encounter is so much easier if you don’t stack and Grast does his job, but since you can’t rely on the forced mechanic to work properly 100% of the time, there is absolutely no incentive to do it properly, yourself.

I guess this is what happens when PUG teams try to use ‘faster’ tactics (I’m assuming that you would only use an exploit if it speeds up the run), not everyone is familiar with them and it just causes frustration.

Too be honest though, people will learn the tactic eventually and then the runs will generally become smoother as a result. There are a few variables, such as player competence and exploit difficulty, but I imagine more players die trying to run past trash than they do trying to do an exploit.

P3 AC is far easier if you do it the proper way. I’ve had no issues with Grast recently (it was a pain just after the revamp to AC) and I run it most days. Stacking in a “Safe” spot with a lot of teams means that the team gets cleaved to death by the boss. I do however point out the safe spots and tell people if everything goes to kitten and Grast dies to run to these locations. I don’t think we have needed to once in the last month.

Nikaido.3457:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

I guess this is what happens when PUG teams try to use ‘faster’ tactics (I’m assuming that you would only use an exploit if it speeds up the run)

It does NOT. Meleeing this boss kills it much faster than ranging from the stairs (in the case of AC path 1’s boss). Pugs don’t use exploits for the sake of speeding things up.

These kittens are just terrible players who can’t handle doing a single dungeon without cheesing everything. These group that want to exploit AC bosses are groups you should leave ASAP, they deserve to waste their time with one less member or waste time finding one more. Give them hell. Break the exploit by aggroing it away from the group too before leaving as a final gift.

My apologies then for making an assumption, I avoid PUG runs as much as possible. If it’s seen as a clarification, I would only use an exploit if it resulted in a smoother/faster run :P

Hooglese.4860:

I know a lot of people use exploits in dungeons to make them ‘easier’ and quicker, but this is almost never true. Most of the time, the party wipes more frequently because if any one screws it up it fails. My best examples for this are the side stepping the mobs to lupi on all paths, and AC p3.

What most people do in Arah, is hug that left wall as to not aggro any enemies, but even with the most seasoned Arah veterans some one aggros a single enemy. Now one enemy shouldn’t wipe the party right? Well it does, because to kill it, it aggros more and more and at best one enemy dies. I found that clearing the area of enemies takes about 3 min, I know that cause Lich Form was on recharge. You may be thinking “but if it’s done perfectly it only takes 1min to make it” yeah, maybe but wiping on lupi means you have to do it again, where as murdering them all means it takes the 10s to walk to lupi.

Remember Collosus Rumblus before the patch? Yeah he wasn’t too bad was he? Have you tried killing him after the patch with out climbing on that wall thing? He’s still easy, just different. What you may do, or know some one that does, is they stack on the wall and beat him down from a distance. That makes him easier, yes, but for the glitch to work you have to not aggro him, all hide in the corner at the same location and have one person bring him over, have that person climb back on the wall with out dying, other wise you have to start all over again. I can do it properly in 2min. He’s got no hp. It seems like he does when you can only attack from a range, but he doesn’t. I’ve had parties quit at this part because they can’t glitch it right, and refuse to do it normally. Mull that one over.

I completely agree with everything you said. I just wanted to add that when I start my own dungeon groups I don’t let anyone use any exploits or glitches. And if I join other groups, if they glitch or w/e for shortcuts I still run thru normally and usually get there before them (ex end of arah path 2 that boat exploit that is now patched). I like to let people play the way they want, but it bothers me when people only want to play with experienced players, but then choose to exploit every thing possible. Why do you need experienced players if you’re gonna cheat? I would think people would want experienced players for legit runs only.

Also, instead of asking people to ping their gear or link their tokens, and whatever nonsense people ask for you to stay in the group, I just ask them to do the bosses legit. That’s a bigger test of skill in my opinion. And it really is faster to do bosses legit. Asking melee heavy groups to stand in one spot and range when they do less damage just so the boss doesn’t attack is lame and takes longer.

And I also had the same issue with AC path 3 last boss. Actually, not even just that boss. Almost every boss that’s exploitable when I ask people to do normally, most of them still try exploit because it’s the only way they have ever done the fight. They never did it legit so they think that’s the normal way to do it. So when it doesn’t work they want to leave the group. Or when I ask them to kill a patrol that takes 45 seconds so we can all run safely, they rather try to skip and wait 7 to 10 minutes for everyone to finally make it there with broken gear from dieing so much beacuse it’s the only way they have ever seen it done.

funny thing in some dungeons exploits are more legit than intended strategy….
Intended strategy requires professions/Death/absurd stuff easily performed.
workarounds require tactic timing and strategy…….

Dredge fractal comes to mind…..

So i wouldn t say that exploits arent Worth it.
Until we have a fair dungeon design its the only way to have something different from the bot-like tactic required to complete stuff.

And also doen t hurt anyone……90% of times.

Note: I am against exploit in any game but this…..mostly because exploits are the workarounds to devs mistakes they refuse to address.

Colossus Rumbulus is almost hard to solo.