Dungeon group [DPS Calculator]

Dungeon group [DPS Calculator]

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Posted by: J Eberle.9312

J Eberle.9312

Thanks to the awesome spreadsheet math work of Dekeyz of DnT combined with a slick format by Queicherius.2563, we now have a quick and easy to use calculator for dungeon party compositions!

Reddit Link to Dekeyz’s Spreadsheet math:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2bem98/pve_nonfgs_dps_for_each_profession/

Reddit Link to the calculator:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2bi24g/pve_group_dps_calculator_based_on_dnt_spreadsheet/

Direct calculator Link:
http://gw2dps.david-reess.de/

Dekeyz’s Concluding remarks: Shoutout to Nike for helping a lot with this project in its many phases. While this was all a very fun mental exercise, it really won’t be useful until the meta shifts away from conjures. Until then, please refer to my FGS 12-second rotational DPS calculations located at http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13086970-who-picks-up-fgs to inform party composition decisions. Also, if something looks amiss, please ask about it.

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Posted by: Guanglai Kangyi.4318

Guanglai Kangyi.4318

I was thinking about making up a more general version of this where users could just input their own data and the spreadsheet does the math for them, but this saves me the trouble.

I may still do it, but honestly ~effort~

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Posted by: JasmineLong.6514

JasmineLong.6514

As always, amazing work by DEKeyz and Nike and a huge +1 to Queicherius.2563 for making it easier to visualize.

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Posted by: Miku Lawrence.6329

Miku Lawrence.6329

Mesmer isn’t terrible.

Snow Crows [SC]

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

Mesmer isn’t terrible.

Honestly, nothing is too terrible.

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Posted by: Miku Lawrence.6329

Miku Lawrence.6329

Highest I could craft was ~ 70,254 DPS

Snow Crows [SC]

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Excellent work by queicherius.2563 to visualize all of the information. We have plans to continue development.

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Posted by: maha.7902

maha.7902

there is no 30/25 strength rune warrior . RESTART THE CALCULATOR

Serah Mahariel – Death and Taxes

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

This would actually be an amazing tool to add things like bearbows and staff guardians to. On a separate tab, so the real tool isn’t too cluttered. But I could spend hours playing with a tool that had all those builds on it.

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Posted by: J Eberle.9312

J Eberle.9312

I just had a discussion actually. There should be a separate calculator for PHIW builds.
The DPS meter would be converted into an FPS meter (Feels Per Second).
As an example:
Nomad’s double bow ranger with spider and bear pets has one of the highest FeelsPerSecond ever emotionally calculated. It’s the must have staple to every PHIW team comp.
Feels Per Second is the mathematical measurement of emotional attachment to a build.

-Other factors would include-
Conditions:
Heals:
Tankyness:
‘supportyness’:
Special Snowflakes Per minute:

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Posted by: JasmineLong.6514

JasmineLong.6514

A Nomad Charrdian running 00662 and mace/shield + hammer must have higher fps though! My fps is measured differently than yours.

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Posted by: RagNoRawk.3625

RagNoRawk.3625

Highest I managed so far was 70,927. Interesting that this group comp only maintains 12.62 stacks of might though.

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Posted by: J Eberle.9312

J Eberle.9312

A Nomad Charrdian running 00662 and mace/shield + hammer must have higher fps though! My fps is measured differently than yours.

But do you feel as strongly about your build as I do about mine?

I think we need to have a feeldown.

Edited because I’ve been naughty ;)

(edited by J Eberle.9312)

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Posted by: JasmineLong.6514

JasmineLong.6514

Lmao our charrdians must have a feel down to see who comes out on top

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Posted by: RagNoRawk.3625

RagNoRawk.3625

on top

I like to watch.

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Posted by: maxinion.8396

maxinion.8396

Mesmer isn’t terrible.

I think it assumes full phantasms and no ramp-up for phantasms and no phantasm death. This is not possible in most situations

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Mesmer isn’t terrible.

I think it assumes full phantasms and no ramp-up for phantasms and no phantasm death. This is not possible in most situations

Ramp up is included, phantasm death is not. DPSing without dodging at all is not possible in most 30 second battles, as well – but I assume such a scenario.

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Posted by: maxinion.8396

maxinion.8396

Mesmer isn’t terrible.

I think it assumes full phantasms and no ramp-up for phantasms and no phantasm death. This is not possible in most situations

Ramp up is included, phantasm death is not. DPSing without dodging at all is not possible in most 30 second battles, as well – but I assume such a scenario.

Sorry to derail, but another question then— are you assuming signet of ether for ramp-up shortening?

Thanks for the clarification!

EDIT: Just checked your post, and you said 4-5 seconds for ramp up, so that has to be using signet of ether. Very nice to see that in a 30 s battle, mesmer is not a huge loss.

(edited by maxinion.8396)

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Am I crazy or am I seeing engi actually being a good addition to a lot of group compositions? So If I’m reading this right, an engi might actually get some respect if it weren’t for conjures dominating the game?

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Highest I could craft was ~ 70,254 DPS

What comp did you use?

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Posted by: JasmineLong.6514

JasmineLong.6514

Am I crazy or am I seeing engi actually being a good addition to a lot of group compositions? So If I’m reading this right, an engi might actually get some respect if it weren’t for conjures dominating the game?

You are correct. Engi provides a massive amount of vuln in a world without fgs.

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Posted by: Miku Lawrence.6329

Miku Lawrence.6329

Highest I managed so far was 70,927. Interesting that this group comp only maintains 12.62 stacks of might though.

The 70k dps is assuming 25 mights, the litle number below is the real dps.

Engi is OP and everyone mocked Guang for no reason while he was a foreseer.

To spoj, the numbers above 70k are actually not real, the highest realistic (not 25 might but true might of the group) is 68,581 DPS

  • Ele Staff 6 4 2 0 2
  • Ele S/F 6 6 2 0 0
  • Warrior 6 6 0 2 0
  • Ranger kitten 0 0
  • Engineer 6 6 0 0 2
  • Everything scholar.

Ps: The unrealistic 70.1k (25 might in vacuum) was actually double Staff ele instead of S/F + Staff.

Snow Crows [SC]

(edited by Miku Lawrence.6329)

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

The calculator isnt perfect. A few things to note. It simply adds up the dps of each profession based on the spreadsheet. The spreadsheet always assumes 25 might so a comp that doesnt recieve 25 might may show higher totals on the calc than it actually would in game. Also the condi damage doesnt factor in bleed cap or burn/poison stacking. So yeah. Be careful when you use this. Its useful to get a rough idea of how much might and vuln you get though.

Also spreadsheet dps is not the only factor in speedruns. You almost always sacrifice some group dps to save time in other areas. So i doubt engi will ever have a place even with fgs nerf.

(edited by spoj.9672)

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Posted by: Miku Lawrence.6329

Miku Lawrence.6329

Yes, the 70k was a lie edited my post above yours.

Snow Crows [SC]

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

I’m assuming this also doesn’t factor in defiance’s affect on vulnerability?

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

I’m assuming this also doesn’t factor in defiance’s affect on vulnerability?

Also probably true. :P

Also a team with no warriors or ranger still has banners, spotter etc. :P

(edited by spoj.9672)

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Posted by: RagNoRawk.3625

RagNoRawk.3625

Highest I managed so far was 70,927. Interesting that this group comp only maintains 12.62 stacks of might though.

The 70k dps is assuming 25 mights, the litle number below is the real dps.

Engi is OP and everyone mocked Guang for no reason while he was a foreseer.

To spoj, the numbers above 70k are actually not real, the highest realistic (not 25 might but true might of the group) is 68,581 DPS

  • Ele Staff 6 4 2 0 2
  • Ele S/F 6 6 2 0 0
  • Warrior 6 6 0 2 0
  • Ranger kitten 0 0
  • Engineer 6 6 0 0 2
  • Everything scholar.

Ps: The unrealistic 70.1k (25 might in vacuum) was actually double Staff ele instead of S/F + Staff.

http://tinyurl.com/okjkhqc

68,828 dps using
Ele 6/4/2/2/0 Staff
6/6/2/0/0 S/F Ham Conj
Warrior 6/5/0/0/3 GS Axe/Mace
Ranger 4/5/5/0/0 OHT
Engi 6/6/0/0/2 BD

Thanks for the info, I didn’t even notice the second number. I understand now.

Edit: Changing the warrior to 4/6/0/4/0 pushes it a bit more up to 68,920. http://tinyurl.com/ngvgzek

(edited by RagNoRawk.3625)

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Posted by: JasmineLong.6514

JasmineLong.6514

Highest I managed so far was 70,927. Interesting that this group comp only maintains 12.62 stacks of might though.

The 70k dps is assuming 25 mights, the litle number below is the real dps.

Engi is OP and everyone mocked Guang for no reason while he was a foreseer.

To spoj, the numbers above 70k are actually not real, the highest realistic (not 25 might but true might of the group) is 68,581 DPS

  • Ele Staff 6 4 2 0 2
  • Ele S/F 6 6 2 0 0
  • Warrior 6 6 0 2 0
  • Ranger kitten 0 0
  • Engineer 6 6 0 0 2
  • Everything scholar.

Ps: The unrealistic 70.1k (25 might in vacuum) was actually double Staff ele instead of S/F + Staff.

http://tinyurl.com/okjkhqc

68,828 dps using
Ele 6/4/2/2/0 Staff
6/6/2/0/0 S/F Ham Conj
Warrior 6/5/0/0/3 GS Axe/Mace
Ranger 4/5/5/0/0 OHT
Engi 6/6/0/0/2 BD

Thanks for the info, I didn’t even notice the second number. I understand now.

But your comp doesn’t have a thief…I can’t accept this

Engis will be the downfall of thieves.

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

I’m assuming this also doesn’t factor in defiance’s affect on vulnerability?

I only calculate vuln assuming defiance. A rough estimate vs. enemies without defiance would be the number you see x2.

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Posted by: RagNoRawk.3625

RagNoRawk.3625

But your comp doesn’t have a thief…I can’t accept this

Engis will be the downfall of thieves.

All my thief comps fall to around 67k dps, which is only about 3% different, so if you were in a situation where you did need thief’s utilities then it wouldn’t really be a loss. (Like if engy’s stealth isn’t enough or you want the permablind).

Edit: It was actually easy to find several comps with thieves and get around 68.4k dps such as: (http://tinyurl.com/oe29xyo) meaning only about a 1-2% difference

(edited by RagNoRawk.3625)

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Posted by: queicherius.2563

queicherius.2563

The spreadsheet always assumes 25 might so a comp that doesnt recieve 25 might may show higher totals on the calc than it actually would in game.

Yes, the little number beneath it is without the missing might, I’ll emphasize that a bit. I don’t know if this number is 100% accurate, maybe there’s a better way.

Also the condi damage doesnt factor in bleed cap or burn/poison stacking

Yes, we’re working on that. May be coming soon-ish.

Also a team with no warriors or ranger still has banners, spotter etc. :P

Take a look at the spreadsheet, there are different colums for what party composition (Warrior, EA-Warrior, Ranger combination) you’re running. The calculator looks at the party composition you built and takes the values of the corresponding columns. [Except I made a mistake and it’s bugging out, but in this case, it should display nothing at all] It (currently?) doesn’t take double rangers (7% + 3.5%) or stuff like multiple warrior’s shouts (might/vuln, every warrior takes 2 banners in the spreadsheet) into consideration.

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Fair enough. I look forward to the tweaks. Its a nice clear tool either way so good job.

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Posted by: SkyChef.5432

SkyChef.5432

That’s a lot of works into it Dek but you can do it while sleeping.
Questions for you, Dek:
1) How do you determine best rotation of a class? through programming like a bubble sort or by experience?
2) Is it hard to modify your spreadsheet for different purpose like pvp or WvW? I’m not going to do this for GW2 but I have Camelot Unchained in mind (I’m their serious backer). I would like to see how you structure your spreadsheet (if I can) so I can model it for CU but I can also start at ground zero, if you can give me some quick tips.

Good work, Dek.

People are too serious of their knowledge.

(edited by SkyChef.5432)

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

That’s a lot of works into it Dek but you can do it while sleeping.
Questions for you, Dek:
1) How do you determine best rotation of a class? through programming like a bubble sort or by experience?
2) Is it hard to modify your spreadsheet for different purpose like pvp or WvW? I’m not going to do this for GW2 but I have Camelot Unchained in mind (I’m their serious backer). I would like to see how you structure your spreadsheet (if I can) so I can model it for CU but I can also start at ground zero, if you can give me some quick tips.

Good work, Dek.

1) For most classes, it’s by my or others’ experience. For example, I don’t know much about necros or engis (but I am learning), so I used rotations published by others. For eles, it is well-spreadsheeted.
2) It could be used for different builds/gear/rotations with enough tweaking. The general process is: after recording a 30 second rotation, I input in my calc attack coefficients and modifiers for each weapon strength used in the rotation, tally up seconds duration of each condition (or determine average seconds from procs by on-crit condition applications), determine base attributes for a given level of might, build, and party buffs, and then optimize for total non-vuln DPS over a few choices of armor/food/runes/sigils.

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Posted by: Dommmmmmmmmm.6984

Dommmmmmmmmm.6984

there is no 30/25 strength rune warrior . RESTART THE CALCULATOR

That’s because it’s a solo build?

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Posted by: maha.7902

maha.7902

30/25 works fine in groups since it actually applies decent vuln unlike pure gs. I just want to see the actual dps difference between strength and scholar in the group situation.

Serah Mahariel – Death and Taxes

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

30/25 works fine in groups since it actually applies decent vuln unlike pure gs. I just want to see the actual dps difference between strength and scholar in the group situation.

Dude, do you even read your guild’s forums?

http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13612527-strength-runes-vs-scholar-groups-solo

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Posted by: maha.7902

maha.7902

barely anything is posted on there so I only really pay attention to the chat box T_T

Serah Mahariel – Death and Taxes

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Posted by: No Pulse.2967

No Pulse.2967

What I would like to see is 0/5/0/6/3 PS.

Inactive member in Dark Renegatus [REN]
The Order of Calamity [OOC] is recruiting!
5/8 Champion titles

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

What I would like to see is 0/5/0/6/3 PS.

Or 44060? (i just wanna see how it compares to the other options)

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Posted by: frifox.5283

frifox.5283

Hmm, something is off. 6/4/0/0/4 mes providing 1.95 vuln? With unshakable I’m calculating that to be 2.62 vuln.

Also, what’s the enemy armor? Because at 2.6k with 1 sw & 1 warden at 0 might my dps number is 20.6% less than the one used in the OP. If I make that 2 sw & 1 warden then they do match however, if I add in 25 might (thought some may start questioning the “realistic” aspect of that setup) then my number becomes 4.7% higher than one in OP. Something telling me the stat scaling is being calculated differently than how it should be.

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Posted by: Xesmin.7613

Xesmin.7613

http://goo.gl/1CQ2V4

72,323 so far ; )

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Hmm, something is off. 6/4/0/0/4 mes providing 1.95 vuln? With unshakable I’m calculating that to be 2.62 vuln.

Also, what’s the enemy armor? Because at 2.6k with 1 sw & 1 warden at 0 might my dps number is 20.6% less than the one used in the OP. If I make that 2 sw & 1 warden then they do match however, if I add in 25 might (thought some may start questioning the “realistic” aspect of that setup) then my number becomes 4.7% higher than one in OP. Something telling me the stat scaling is being calculated differently than how it should be.

Calculations were done at 25 might, which is realistic for many party compositions. The 0 might estimates are done with a linear approximation while I get those numbers together. What rotation did you use to calculate your DPS and vuln?

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Posted by: frifox.5283

frifox.5283

None. I excluded the start up time and assumed average for all variables. I don’t think the startup will affect the end dps number enough to be a concern when talking about 30s timeframe. However, to be sure I’m in a process of adjusting my spreadsheet to account for the rotations, and hopefully even give me a graph of dps as the time goes on. Will let you know if I come up with something different.

Now, the vuln thing. Mind Slash/Gash both have 5s base vuln duration. Add 30% from 6pts into domination = 6.5s vuln. Unshakable halves the duration making it 3.25s. Vuln applied every 2.48s = 1.31 average stacks. Vuln applied twice in that timeframe (slash+gash) = 2.62 average vuln stacks. Did I miss something?

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Posted by: pdavis.8031

pdavis.8031

Love it!! However I would also like to see something like the build calculator that includes DPS. I wouldnt mind trying to work out something like that. Just my netskillz are on the low end. :/

“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

None. I excluded the start up time and assumed average for all variables. I don’t think the startup will affect the end dps number enough to be a concern when talking about 30s timeframe. However, to be sure I’m in a process of adjusting my spreadsheet to account for the rotations, and hopefully even give me a graph of dps as the time goes on. Will let you know if I come up with something different.

Now, the vuln thing. Mind Slash/Gash both have 5s base vuln duration. Add 30% from 6pts into domination = 6.5s vuln. Unshakable halves the duration making it 3.25s. Vuln applied every 2.48s = 1.31 average stacks. Vuln applied twice in that timeframe (slash+gash) = 2.62 average vuln stacks. Did I miss something?

Start up time is about 4ish seconds (3 phantasms + signet), so that’s a pretty hefty chunk of a 30 second time frame. Additionally, I chose to use Blurred Frenzy off CD instead of continuing autoing, so I used 9 Mind Slash/Gash during the remainder of that time interval. 18*5*1.3/(2*30) = 1.95. Without BF I got 10 Slash, 9 Gash, so it seemed worth it to use it.

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Posted by: frifox.5283

frifox.5283

Ok, made the spreadsheet account for the start-up time (pre-defined) and calculate dps and even provide a graph of dps and damage dealt over time (30 sec) for the rotation. Basically I recorded 60 fps video and then used the time of first hit of each character/skill (phantasms, mesmer, etc) and then used already known accurate attack rates to project vulnerability graph over 30 seconds, and then used that data to calculate both direct and condition damage over time per skill. Vulnerability was calculated for every skill individually (including all those 12 pesky warden hits) for highest possible accuracy.

My rotation was pretty simple – Warden, Swordsman, Heal, Swordsman, and then auto-attack till the end. My setup had Assassins armor/weapons and Zerk trinkets (all ascended), 10% Potion with Truffle Steak, 5%/10% Sigils, Scholars, 2 Mantras, Waster’s Punishment proc’ing 50% of the time.

Estimated DPS

  • 5,514 dps (0 might, self vuln only)
  • 7,729 dps (25 might, self vuln only)
  • 11,326 dps (25 might. capped vuln, fury, banners)

If I do ignore the start-up time then my predicted DPS will be only 1% to 2.5% off the actual dps (depending on the party buffs). IMO that’s acceptable and is not a big enough factor for the 30s timeframe. The bigger problem is when your phantasms start dying mid-fight which is actually quite realistic for 30 seconds. When that happens your dps will drop like a rock – about 20% per phantasm.

Here are the graphs for the 25 might/vuln/etc test (yay google docs):

  • Damage Dealt: LINK
  • Cumulative DPS: LINK
  • Immediate DPS: LINK

Lastly, I took it one step further and added a lupi reflect calcs (still somewhat raw atm). Under all the buffs mentioned above, one feedback should do 359,880 damage which will eat up 24.7% of his health… mwuahaha

(edited by frifox.5283)

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Posted by: RagNoRawk.3625

RagNoRawk.3625

http://goo.gl/1CQ2V4

72,323 so far ; )

You also looked at the wrong number. 72,323 is if your team had 25 might. However, your team has 0 might. You need to look at the number under the big one, where it says
“roughly extimated 54,242 DPS” which is based on the might your group actually has.

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Posted by: Lian Olsam.9541

Lian Olsam.9541

How engi do all that dmg? Anyone have some videos?

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

How engi do all that dmg? Anyone have some videos?

Its condition damage. Which isnt affected by timewarp etc. Their direct damage is only 9k.