Guild Wars 2

Selling dungeon runs, at its core, is assisted-cheating. Buying a dungeon run is by-passing gameplay and still reaping the rewards from a dungeon (tokens, achievements, etc)

Now, I know what you’re thinking, “there’s nothing wrong with that”. I would have to disagree with you. One can compare buying a dungeon run with botting. Something else is doing the work FOR you. YOU aren’t actually playing the game the way it was meant to be played.

The ways dungeon selling hurts the community:

1) Opens up the possibility for griefing and a headache for your customer service department.

2) Ability to avoid learning your class/the dungeon/game mechanics (example: new players) and the ability to just buy your way in.

3) Lessens gameplay time, over time. Less gameplay time = less people playing = less people buying gems, or possibly buying gems. Less people playing hurts the game in many other ways, not just gem sales, but I don’t have to tell you or anet that.

4) There are times where the only thing posted in LFG tool are dungeon selling/buying runs. Which hurts the community, as it defiles what the LFG tool is for. Looking for groups for gameplay. It’s not a tool to make money or an easy-out. It’s a tool to play the game.

We could argue that it’s the same as buying a legendary, but that’s an argument for another time and place.

The main benefit of making buying/selling against the rules for Anet, is that you won’t have to deal with all the reports and drama from people being griefed/scammed, or any other situation that deals with these situations.

No. Aside from the fact that many of your points have already been discussed and explained, it is a bad idea. The only acceptable way would be the also often suggested scaling of rewards at the end, which would just lead to alot more kicking and griefing.

If people want to spend their gold to get their tokens for skins then let them so, same if someone is willing to take the ‘challenge’ of soloing a path, then let him get a reward, it already is risky enough as you can get easily kicked and end without reward.

And no it doesn’t prevent people from learning their class and no people don’t play less because of this.

I have to agree in general principle with the OP.
Buying dungeon run completions is effectively the same as buying a levelling service.

Who does even buy those…3g for a dung that gives 1g is just stupid thing….

I’ve never understood why groups are so messy in this game. I think this is the first time I’ve heard of groups where there is no leader (technically there is, but he has no real power), anyone can invite, and anyone can initiate a kick. It’s rather silly imo.

Just keeping kick initiation to a group leader (at the very least, within dungeons) would kill the possibility of people stealing groups from those who are selling runs.

lol bingo thread

Tree.3916:

lol bingo thread

I miss Lucas :-(

You’re entitled to your opinion, OP, but ANet is fine with selling, as is most of the playerbase. If you want to fight this, it’s going to be uphill all the way.

As for why people buy, it’s for XP and tokens. Personally I’d rather just run them myself, but not everyone feels that way. Buying is just an alternate route to the skins, and since GW2 does try to not force people into one type of content, it’s acceptable.

Players pay gold that they have farmed or converted via gems to buy this service. They have put in the work to get these rewards. Your argument is invalid.

I don’t pretend to understand how selling dungeon runs equates to less play time and therefor less money in ANet’s pockets. And I’m sure you don’t spend many sleepless nights worrying about the number of scam reports they get everyday.

Which leads me to conclude that your real gripe is that you are seeing more dungeon selling groups in the LFG than groups wanting to actually play the dungeon.

So instead of trying to save us from this terrible, godless capitalism, why don’t you find a Guild that will play dungeons with you? Then you won’t even need to open the LFG tool.

“Selling dungeon runs, at its core, is assisted-cheating.”

You seem to missunderstand something there. Cheating would imply that the dungeon itself wasn’t done the way it is supposed to be. If it was intended for only a group to clear the dungeon, then you would only be able to join a dungeon with a 5 man party. But you can join the dungeon by yourself and do the bosses by yourrself (ofc, exploits and stuff not taken into account for my statement. I expect it to be a legal run).

Also, it has been stated by ANet severel times so far, that selling dungeons is legal and even liked to be seen, since it’s been in GW1, too. Selling/Buying dungeons is a “gentlemen’s agreement” how it was called by the devs.

To your points 1-4:
1): Kicking will always happen, with or without people selling slots. If 4 players from a guild + 1 random pug play till the endboss and then kick the pug for a guildie… it’s the same prob.
2): “Ability to learn a class and dungeon mechanics”: Then prohibit ranging. Some bosses don’t use certain attacks if you stand in range. That’s an exploit, because you purposefully use it to avoid those attacks. If you want to learn how your class works you have to do dungeons solo anyways. Most bosses die way too quickly to actually see what they can do.
3): “Lessens gameplay time”: No, you simply do other things with your remaining time. An example: Arah p4 takes pugs 1,5h+ (seen some doing it for more than 3-4h) and you need the tokens or the path for the dungeon master title. Instead of doing a pug-run where you could even fail or get kicked at the end (reference to 1).) you can just buy it. It takes 5-20 mins for a group to fill. After that you still have leftover time where you can do whatever you like.
4): “[…] only thing posted in LFG tool are dungeon selling/buying[…]”: I don’t agree with that. This only happens very late in the evening or early in the morning where most players don’t bother doing a dungeon run. Some rushers just hope to get some gold, that’s why the LFG-posts sum up. Normally you always find groups that do dungeons together. And as far as I am concerned… The LFG-Tool is also intended for selling/buying purpose (I remember a statement from ANet, but can’t bother searching it now).

Greetz, Raph

This is the same guy who said out loud that ruby orbs were better than scholar runes 9 months ago, folks.

bingo. kitten issues. LFG full of sellers? create your own LFG. I don’t buy path, i pug arah, i have no problems getting a group.

Buying a legendary is against TOS, it’s essentially assisted cheating. You bypass the content by not playing the way it’s meant to be played ( farming lodestones, making clovers, getting a precursor via excessive luck).

I thought id seen everything….

Buying groceries is assisted cheating because you are skipping the laborious farming of your own produce.

hybrid.5027:

Buying groceries is assisted cheating because you are skipping the laborious farming of your own produce.

LFG sellers = Wall Mart. Confirmed.

Kahrgan.7401:

The main benefit of making buying/selling against the rules for Anet, is that you won’t have to deal with all the reports and drama from people being griefed/scammed, or any other situation that deals with these situations.

This way of thinking just makes my head hurt

Dungeon selling – soloing – elitest / zerk etc. . Etc. .

No need to hide Op, we are all the same arent we?
You want us all filtered out just as much as others do

Dont worry though, its slowly happening..

Jerus.4350:

Top right corner of the first post is so beautiful.

It’s because I addressed “anet” in the title. “Anet: make Dungeon selling buying against TOS”, was the original title. I’m not sure why they put that detail there, because to the forum it looks like anet is publicly “shaming” me.

Sarahfull.4930:

Dungeon selling – soloing – elitest / zerk etc. . Etc. .

No need to hide Op, we are all the same arent we?
You want us all filtered out just as much as others do

Don’t worry though, its slowly happening..

Not sure what you’re trying to say, honestly..?

I run zerk all the time, but I disagree with allowing selling or buying dungeon paths. I also dont care if someone is elitist or not, when I’m in a dungeon I fill my role… If you do that, you will never have someone yelling at you.

Let me take the pleasure to answer your post.
The way I think your opinion that “The ways dungeon selling hurts the community” is wrong.

1.

Opens up the possibility for griefing and a headache for your customer service department.

The customer service department doesn’t work for free. They get paid to deal with these kinds of situations professionally. They don’t require customer’s sympathy and pity to define their job. Your argument is overextending.

2.

Ability to avoid learning your class/the dungeon/game mechanics (example: new players) and the ability to just buy your way in.

Same could be said to the (dungeon) PvP reward tracks. You don’t need to play dungeons to get the skins and tokens. Blasphemy!

3.

Less gameplay time = less people playing = less people buying gems, or possibly buying gems.

Most of busy people, like me, have very little time to play, yet can drop seriously big chunk of cash into the gem store monthly to catch up with others. Let me break it for you. We buy gems, convert it to gold, buy dungeons to get tokens, get the skins and complete our collections. Sellers profit, buyers happy. There is no scenario such as yours.

4.

There are times where the only thing posted in LFG tool are dungeon selling/buying runs. Which hurts the community, as it defiles what the LFG tool is for.

This pathetic excuse comes up a lot. For goodness shake, LFG aka. Looking For Group does not mean Your Only Chance to Group. The properly intended use of this tool would be: create your own group or join within the group’s criteria.

Now it is certain that I don’t agree with any of your argument. I doubt that any sane people would. Good luck with your suggestion elsewhere.

hybrid.5027:

Buying groceries is assisted cheating because you are skipping the laborious farming of your own produce.

If you were playing a game as a farmer, and you bought groceries and passed them off as something you grew.. then sure.. that’d be cheating.

Kahrgan.7401:

hybrid.5027:

Buying groceries is assisted cheating because you are skipping the laborious farming of your own produce.

If you were playing a game as a farmer, and you bought groceries and passed them off as something you grew.. then sure.. that’d be cheating.

Sound like instance griefers. Two were banned beautifully this morning.

Iris Ng.9845:

Let me take the pleasure to answer your post.
The way I think your opinion that “The ways dungeon selling hurts the community” is wrong.

1.

Opens up the possibility for griefing and a headache for your customer service department.

The customer service department doesn’t work for free. They get paid to deal with these kinds of situations professionally. Your argument is overextending.

It’s apparent have never worked in a customer service job before.

2.

Ability to avoid learning your class/the dungeon/game mechanics (example: new players) and the ability to just buy your way in.

Same could be said to the (dungeon) PvP reward tracks. You don’t need to play dungeons to get the skins and tokens. Blasphemy!

Apples, and Oranges. That’s another way to achieve those things built into the game. The only thing that would make that similar to my argument is if people were selling wins/playing your character for you, to complete the reward tracks.

3.

Less gameplay time = less people playing = less people buying gems, or possibly buying gems.

Most of busy people, like me, have very little time to play, yet can drop seriously big chunk of cash into the gem store monthly to catch up with others. We buy gems, convert it to gold, buy dungeons to get tokens, get the skins and complete our collections. Sellers profit, buyers happy. There is no scenario such as yours.

It was an example, but I like how you seem to think you are above everyone else… I have spent quite a lot of money in gems, and I didn’t have to ‘cheat’ to get dungeon master or all of the skins I wanted, even when being away from home for 14 hours a day for my job. Alas, you seemed to miss the point for a third time. Let’s go for more:

4.

There are times where the only thing posted in LFG tool are dungeon selling/buying runs. Which hurts the community, as it defiles what the LFG tool is for.

This comes up a lot. For goodness shake, LFG aka. Looking For Group does not mean Your Only Chance to Group. The properly intended use of this tool would be: create your own group or join within the group’s criteria.

As someone who usually posts their own groups if they want to pug, its not so much a problem for me, but what about new players? What about people who WANT to play the game.. the less people playing the game = less people doing dungeons. I don’t quite see why you don’t understand this? Seems you just want to defend you buying dungeons so you can continue to do so, instead of playing the game as it was intended.

Now it is certain that I don’t agree with any of your argument. Good luck with your suggestion elsewhere.

Elsewhere? Where am I supposed to post suggestions? Do I go to my kitchen and shout out to the world what my ideas are? Not a bad idea at this rate.

Mhmm.

Kahrgan.7401:

One can compare buying a dungeon run with botting. Something else is doing the work FOR you. YOU aren’t actually playing the game the way it was meant to be played.

With your logic buying from the TP is also cheating.

Alas, I did not notice the Suggestion forum has been shelved. You can try this one: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2

Kahrgan.7401:

Jerus.4350:

Top right corner of the first post is so beautiful.

It’s because I addressed “anet” in the title. “Anet: Dungeon selling buying against TOS”, was the original title. I’m not sure why they put that detail there, because to the forum it looks like anet is publicly “shaming” me.

Couldn’t agree more.

Can they give themselves an infraction? hmm…

Kahrgan.7401:

Jerus.4350:

Top right corner of the first post is so beautiful.

It’s because I addressed “anet” in the title. “Anet: Dungeon selling buying against TOS”, was the original title. I’m not sure why they put that detail there, because to the forum it looks like anet is publicly “shaming” me.

Ahhh, that would do it. When I made a very friendly, polite post asking if the Alphard change a year ago was intended or not, they infracted me and deleted my post for daring to address them directly. Count yourself lucky it’s just an infraction >.>

Relevant to the thread, points 1 and 3: I’m sure ArenaNet is more aware than we are of CS and gem issues arising from dungeon selling. If it were a significant problem for them (as in worth devoting resources to), they’d have done something.

Anecdotal, but I’ve also never heard of someone who stopped playing because they got their legendary/dungeon armor. Most have stopped because they don’t have anything left to do. Being forced into a dozen or so Arah runs on their way to Bifrost wouldn’t have affected their departure one bit.

Your defense of point 4 sounds like excessive hand-holding for newer players, to be honest. If they watch the LFG, they’ll see “story all welcome :-)” or similar within 2-3 minutes. Even for Arah. Now, even if they don’t want to run that particular path, they’ll quickly have an example for how they can put up a friendly post.

As for the folks who just want the tokens and hate dungeons, I’d rather have them buy the tokens then join my party as a dead weight with a bad attitude getting zero enjoyment from the run. Seriously. Besides, no one who wants to run a path for fun will buy it instead, what would be the point?

Point 2…is valid, but pointless. Take a look at the rest of PvE — ever really needed to know your class, even at a world boss? ANet is perfectly happy for players to mindlessly, skilllessly farm gold and buy what they want. I don’t like it either, but it what the game is, and will always be.

Iris Ng.9845:

2.

Ability to avoid learning your class/the dungeon/game mechanics (example: new players) and the ability to just buy your way in.

Same could be said to the (dungeon) PvP reward tracks. You don’t need to play dungeons to get the skins and tokens. Blasphemy!

Seriously, +1000. At least someone is running the dungeon when an instance gets sold :-P

Kahrgan.7401:

Sarahfull.4930:

Dungeon selling – soloing – elitest / zerk etc. . Etc. .

No need to hide Op, we are all the same arent we?
You want us all filtered out just as much as others do

Don’t worry though, its slowly happening..

Not sure what you’re trying to say, honestly..?

I run zerk all the time, but I disagree with allowing selling or buying dungeon paths. I also dont care if someone is elitist or not, when I’m in a dungeon I fill my role… If you do that, you will never have someone yelling at you.

:) well I made a kitten of myself. Please forgive me, guild wars is abit gloomy for me atm so I read your post in the wrong tone.. So I am sorry

In principle, I’d say ANet (and myself) agree with you. Our basic stance is that players should DO the content to get the rewards (which is why they’ve taken steps to correct exploits and fix things like unintended JP shortcuts in dungeons). In that sense, buying dungeons runs is something we frown upon.

But at the same time, if somebody is good enough to complete a dungeon solo or duo, it’s not right to slap them down and say they can’t do that. And if they want to sell their free slots at the end, and if other players are willing to pay them for it, well… How different is that from a Mesmer portaling other players to the end of JP’s for tips, for example? Would it be any more acceptable if those dungeon sellers instead just offered their slots away for free? You’d still have players who were essentially getting rewards for free, only the sellers are doing it purely out of a generous heart. (And again, if you cracked down on this, then stuff like doing free giveaways or trivia in Lion’s Arch would be illegal as well.)

So at the end of the day, I’d say the best solution is pretty much the status quo. Dungeon buying/selling is an activity that is permitted, though not necessarily endorsed by ANet.

Story on the topic.

I use to play Everquest, well, I use to live in Everquest

I played a lot, got pretty good, was able to solo entire sets of dungeons for expansions. The entire progression that was supposed to last a year I could solo in a few hours on a weekend. With that I became a Mercenary, I’d advertise and sell my services to help those who were unable, unwilling, or simply wanted the rewards for doing so.

In that I met 2 people, great people, became good friends.

It was a husband and wife, they’d group together a lot but generally all 3 of us liked different types of content. Me I liked the dungeon type thing, the more challenging instance content with objectives and rewards for completing them. In that I learned to maximize my time for the rewards and it was great.

The Husband, he loved the open world stuff, he’d farm for hours, sell stuff and gather supplies. He really enjoyed alts and leveling in general, I didn’t really understand it, I wasn’t a big altoholic in that game as I played the best profession in any game ever, bard

The wife was an avid craftswoman. She would do that stuff all day and sell things off bringing in a huge profit.

So basically, he’d farm components, she’d make stuff, sell it, then they’d pay me to do the dungeons to get their characters rewards. Each one of us got what we wanted. All three of us played how we wanted and enjoyed the game the way we wanted.

It was a mutually beneficial situation.

That situation always comes to mind when I think of the whole mercenary role in games. After I quit playing Everquest I did the same in DCUO taking people through raids and getting them their achievements. Now I don’t do much in GW2 because, well, my life has gotten busier and me lazier as far as games go, but I have sold paths with friends and I still view the whole situation as one beneficial to the community. It allows people to play the game where and how they want it. Really want that dungeon skin? sure you can get it with a little help and gold to convince people to do that for you.

I honestly see that as one of the big draws to GW2 is the freedom it presents to play how you want to. There are a few locked items, which in some cases are fine, others a bit questionable (ghost puppy from Halloween…) but overall the free exchange of these items for cash is a great point of the game. Almost everything is tradeable and can be acquired through pure gold, and then we have dungeon selling to allow people to get that part of the game through other means as well.

I really feel it fits well with the entire GW2 idea of freedom to play whatever you want, however you want. I can’t help but feel that there’d be more kittened off players if they were stuck farming dungeons they hated to get things they really wanted. And considering the fact that people are willing to purchase what I feel are overpriced dungeon paths, it seems like these people agree with me.

That said I can understand the resentment. I use to get it once in a while in EQ. People complaining I was ruining this that and the other thing. Each and every time though, without asking, I’d get defended by the people who bought the dungeons from me as well as random other people who understood that everyone within the system enjoyed it. The people paying, again what I thought was way overpriced (but it was low compared to the others doing it ) loved that they could buy these from me.

So, if you’re one of the people outside the system.. quite frankly, KITTEN OFF. It’s a great situation for the people involved, and you trying to screw with it is nothing but a narcissistic approach where you feel your opinion means more than everyone else’s. So again, KITTEN OFF.

Go enjoy the game how you want to enjoy the game and leave everyone else alone, please.

A bit longer than I wanted to have it, but that’s my opinion on the matter.

Kahrgan.7401:

Selling dungeon runs, at its core, is assisted-cheating. Buying a dungeon run is by-passing gameplay and still reaping the rewards from a dungeon (tokens, achievements, etc)

Now, I know what you’re thinking, “there’s nothing wrong with that”. I would have to disagree with you. One can compare buying a dungeon run with botting. Something else is doing the work FOR you. YOU aren’t actually playing the game the way it was meant to be played.

The ways dungeon selling hurts the community:

1) Opens up the possibility for griefing and a headache for your customer service department.

2) Ability to avoid learning your class/the dungeon/game mechanics (example: new players) and the ability to just buy your way in.

3) Lessens gameplay time, over time. Less gameplay time = less people playing = less people buying gems, or possibly buying gems. Less people playing hurts the game in many other ways, not just gem sales, but I don’t have to tell you or anet that.

4) There are times where the only thing posted in LFG tool are dungeon selling/buying runs. Which hurts the community, as it defiles what the LFG tool is for. Looking for groups for gameplay. It’s not a tool to make money or an easy-out. It’s a tool to play the game.

We could argue that it’s the same as buying a legendary, but that’s an argument for another time and place.

The main benefit of making buying/selling against the rules for Anet, is that you won’t have to deal with all the reports and drama from people being griefed/scammed, or any other situation that deals with these situations.

1
Ingame chat opens up a huge possibility for verbal griefing, a bigger problem than dungeon trolls, should ingame chat be banned too?

2 & 3

Anyone can buy gems with $$$ and convert t hem to gold. They can use the gold to buy legendaries and other items which were supposed to take play time to achieve. This circumvents learning how to do dungeons, WvW or whatever it is necessary to purchase or craft their desired item ingame.

Are you saying buying gems is also cheating and is also against the TOS? :o

4

LFG isn’t a one way tool. You can make your own parties, having no other parties available in the LFG is not a problem because you have the ability to start one yourself. The sellers aren’t preventing you from starting a party or others joining your party.

Iris Ng.9845:

Alas, I did not notice the Suggestion forum has been shelved. You can try this one: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2

The post would be moved to dungeon sub forum, because it pertains to dungeons.

Don’t feed the trolls. Debating with people who refuse to consider any other viewpoint isn’t debating, it’s self-torture.

Jerus.4350:

The wife was an avid craftswoman. She would do that stuff all day and sell things off bringing in a huge profit.

LOL this topic is the biggest flood of envy that i’ve ever seen.
Thank you TS, you made my day!

Jerus.4350:

So, if you’re one of the people outside the system.. quite frankly, KITTEN OFF. It’s a great situation for the people involved, and you trying to screw with it is nothing but a narcissistic approach where you feel your opinion means more than everyone else’s. So again, KITTEN OFF.

Go enjoy the game how you want to enjoy the game and leave everyone else alone, please.

Gotta +1 the bolded part. I understand the initial “WTF?!?!” when you see dungeon selling, but…yeah. Jerus nailed it.

BTW, why did you leave EQ? My wife has recently gotten pulled into EQ2 big time and I’m thinking of giving it a shot.

I mean, isn’t this what we all want to see? The game is 10 years old, has seen at least one expansion/year on average, and is still getting waaaay more new content than we are…

dlonie.6547:

Jerus.4350:

So, if you’re one of the people outside the system.. quite frankly, KITTEN OFF. It’s a great situation for the people involved, and you trying to screw with it is nothing but a narcissistic approach where you feel your opinion means more than everyone else’s. So again, KITTEN OFF.

Go enjoy the game how you want to enjoy the game and leave everyone else alone, please.

Gotta +1 the bolded part. I understand the initial “WTF?!?!” when you see dungeon selling, but…yeah. Jerus nailed it.

BTW, why did you leave EQ? My wife has recently gotten pulled into EQ2 big time and I’m thinking of giving it a shot.

I mean, isn’t this what we all want to see? The game is 10 years old, has seen at least one expansion/year on average, and is still getting waaaay more new content than we are…

Well, I played the original, which was IMO something special no game has quite hit again, though that may just be impossible with the changes to the entire industry and genre. It was created by a bunch of DnD nerds trying to make an immersive world. They nailed it pretty well.

EQ2 came out about the same time WoW did, they are very very similar in many regards, and at the same time so close (but very different too) to the original I just never had a desire to change.

I have no doubt your wife will love EQ2 though from what I’ve heard and seen. The housing system in both games is simply fantastic, I’m scared to admit the hours days weeks of play time I spend decorating in EQ, and EQ2 has that, but it’s much more beautiful. While also being a solid game to play as well, just to me that was one of the things that later in the game took all my time, and I was very jealous of in EQ2 as the graphics were something I actually wanted.

I ended up leaving though because it’s now 15+ years old (the original) and well, just had gotten stale. I knew every trick, every strat, everything there was to do in the game. Still chat with the devs there from time to time, they’ve added some cool features from those talks (community council thingy) and it’s amazing to see how passionate these guys are in their work. Which is why I have such high hope for EQNext because some of these guys were pulled to work on parts of it. And yes, they just finished another expansion for the original too (15+ years old still coming out with yearly expansions with mini content additions throughout the year, and no not “we put stuff in the gemstore” content, real content to play) It’s impressive seeing those guys put in 16 hour days trying to get things ready to ship

One of the coolest things they have added somewhat recently is cursed items. Basically you get it… it’s crap, you keep playing with it, it gets worse. Continues to get worse… suddenly you’re at half your health because you’re using it…. eventually… OMG best item in the game! when it hits it’s final level that was a very fun addition that got brainstormed by the community council there (with most of the props going to the dev in charge of that stuff but we also discussed options for days to work it all out in the council thingy).

Kinda longer than I planned, but I’ll just end with, that franchise had it’s problems too, but they kept plugging away, giving every element of the game a bit of attention every year at the very least, which was great. I think it averages like 5-6 new zones with 1-2 group missions (dungeons) per zone as well as the open world to explore with at least one large storyline quest as well as a side “scavenger hunt” type quest. This includes some new tradeskill(crafting) components and recipes for new bigger, better things (having a gear treadmill can be helpful I’m sure for developers in this area), and to top it all off about 13 new raids for the more hardcore players.

Get out of my dungeons I don’t wanna “look” for people that are trying to rip me off my money. YOU want to charge people for letting them into your party? Sure form you party outside the dungeon. If I want to earnestly look for other players I don’t want to find parties that will kick me if I don’t pay their fee, seriously this is a problem. Let us live you petty thieves preying on naive newbies.

rollnburn.6273:

Get out of my dungeons I don’t wanna “look” for people that are trying to rip me off my money. YOU want to charge people for letting them into your party? Sure form you party outside the dungeon. If I want to earnestly look for other players I don’t want to find parties that will kick me if I don’t pay their fee, seriously this is a problem. Let us live you petty thieves preying on naive newbies.

Dude….the requirements are clearly written in the LFG description for these groups. Read them. If you don’t like the terms of the party, don’t join and start your own LFG. Pretty simple solution — no rage necessary.

rollnburn.6273:

Get out of my dungeons I don’t wanna “look” for people that are trying to rip me off my money. YOU want to charge people for letting them into your party? Sure form you party outside the dungeon. If I want to earnestly look for other players I don’t want to find parties that will kick me if I don’t pay their fee, seriously this is a problem. Let us live you petty thieves preying on naive newbies.

Dungeon sellers charge people for completing the entire dungeon path, with zero participation of the buyer required, and minimal time of the buyer required. This is a service worth compensation. If you don’t want to pay in exchange for the service, just don’t join. Advertising a legitimate service is not an attempt to rip you off, just like a car wash hanging a sign saying they’ll wash your car for a certain price isn’t some attempt to rip you off.

Dungeon sellers aren’t charging you a fee for you joining their party. They’re charging the fee for you joining the party and getting the end boss reward without you having to participate in any way. If you don’t pay, they will kick you, just like any group that advertises with specific requirements will kick you if you do not meet those requirements.

Dungeon sellers are not “stealing” the gold of anyone. This is a voluntary transaction both parties think is fair. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be making the transaction.

Dungeon sellers do not prey on “naive newbies”. I sell a fair amount of Arah, and nearly all of the buyers have over 3k AP (in fact, about half of them have more AP than I do). Some are buying for Dungeon Master, and are doing it because they don’t want to do the dungeon, or because they haven’t been able to complete it with a group after many attempts. They’re happy to pay the price. Some are buying tokens for skins they want, or so they can get Dungeoneer. Again, they’re happy to pay the price. If they weren’t happy to pay the price, they wouldn’t voluntarily join and pay.

So much bingo in this thread.

dlonie.6547:

rollnburn.6273:

Get out of my dungeons I don’t wanna “look” for people that are trying to rip me off my money. YOU want to charge people for letting them into your party? Sure form you party outside the dungeon. If I want to earnestly look for other players I don’t want to find parties that will kick me if I don’t pay their fee, seriously this is a problem. Let us live you petty thieves preying on naive newbies.

Dude….the requirements are clearly written in the LFG description for these groups. Read them. If you don’t like the terms of the party, don’t join and start your own LFG. Pretty simple solution — no rage necessary.

Reading seemed it was too confusing to new players so we changed the LFG tool to only include pictograms. Sincerely.

Arena Net

Dalanor.5387:

dlonie.6547:

rollnburn.6273:

Get out of my dungeons I don’t wanna “look” for people that are trying to rip me off my money. YOU want to charge people for letting them into your party? Sure form you party outside the dungeon. If I want to earnestly look for other players I don’t want to find parties that will kick me if I don’t pay their fee, seriously this is a problem. Let us live you petty thieves preying on naive newbies.

Dude….the requirements are clearly written in the LFG description for these groups. Read them. If you don’t like the terms of the party, don’t join and start your own LFG. Pretty simple solution — no rage necessary.

Reading seemed it was too confusing to new players so we changed the LFG tool to only include pictograms. Sincerely.

Arena Net

Yes, thank for your useless contribution to this thread Mr. Sherlock.

The point is that many people often offer help to other newbies, if it weren’t for the level restriction I wouldn’t need any lvl 80 in my party at all.

rollnburn.6273:

Get out of my dungeons I don’t wanna “look” for people that are trying to rip me off my money. YOU want to charge people for letting them into your party? Sure form you party outside the dungeon. If I want to earnestly look for other players I don’t want to find parties that will kick me if I don’t pay their fee, seriously this is a problem. Let us live you petty thieves preying on naive newbies.

rollnburn.6273:

The point is that many people often offer help to other newbies, if it weren’t for the level restriction I wouldn’t need any lvl 80 in my party at all.

Oh, and thanks Jerus (meant to post sooner). Sounds like a great community with an astounding amount of dev involvement/activity. Granted, they (sort of) rely on subs, but it sounds like they’re doing things right. Great example of instance selling in other games strengthening player interactions.

If I ever get the time to finish DA:O…and then do my DA:I playthrough…EQ2 is next on my list :-)

That is, unless GW2 puts out some killer content and all my friends return. lol. Crossing my fingers for two years has given me quite the nasty cramp.

I realy can’t understand the crying about the dungeon-sell-posibility via player-to-player system.

Is it realy hard for some players to understand, that even if you can spend 15-20 min. to finish dungeon path, you always have an alternative way to safe your own time for 1g (2.5g per path with 1.5g reward) and earn 60 badges, save same 15-20 min. and be free to go ?

Stop envying ! The player who offers you to buy path, spent a bit more of his own play time for a “small compensation”. I myself know every dungeon and prefer to make fast runs with easy money, but when you have no time but need badges – sell offers is always is an option.

Exo.2965:

I realy can’t understand the crying about the dungeon-sell-posibility via player-to-player system.

Is it realy hard for some players to understand, that even if you can spend 15-20 min. to finish dungeon path, you always have an alternative way to safe your own time for 1g (2.5g per path with 1.5g reward) and earn 60 badges, save same 15-20 min. and be free to go ?

Stop envying ! The player who offers you to buy path, spent a bit more of his own play time for a “small compensation”. I myself know every dungeon and prefer to make fast runs with easy money, but when you have no time but need badges – sell offers is always is an option.

This guy gets it.