People selling dungeon runs was a big problem before this patch, and now with more people running Arah (because of increased rewards), it’s becoming an even bigger problem.
Group leaders take a buddy, abuse 3 other people to get to the last boss, then kick the other 3 people to sell those spots at a profit.
Of course, there is no way to stop this happening, but a hindrance to those doing it is at least required – possibly make it so a new player cannot join a dungeon after a certain point (In Arah, I suggest after GL).
Until something official is done, I will encourage players to join these runs and leave without payment to discourage such behavior.
Attachments:
Light Up the Darkness
“Dear ANet, nerf Paper, Scissors is fine. Sincerely, Rock”
Elysaurus | Warrior | [LOL] | League of the Legendary | Gandara (EU)
Do you have any proof that people running these dungeons are actually kicking people? Myself, my guild and some on my friends list do Arah runs every day on EU, and we do it either with a smaller party size (1-4), or we’ll drop from the party to sell our spots. Also, don’t encourage people to scam those who could be offering a legitimate service to others. It takes time to clear a dungeon, especially with few people. Threads like this where you promote scamming is exactly why we ask for payment before we kill the end boss.
Also, don’t encourage people to scam those who could be offering a legitimate service to others.
It’s not scamming. Etiquette is super simple stuff, dungeon selling shouldn’t be allowed, and those who attempt to should be punished for it.
And as for proof, I have none. I would not touch a group with a PUG entering with a bargepole, it’s asking for trouble. Why would people drop their own reward they sunk ~30 minutes into, probably to get maybe a 50s split for each spot is sold?
Light Up the Darkness
“Dear ANet, nerf Paper, Scissors is fine. Sincerely, Rock”
Elysaurus | Warrior | [LOL] | League of the Legendary | Gandara (EU)
Arah P4 takes around 30 minutes with 3 people (I actually did this run earlier). We charge 13g for the run. One person dropped their spot, sacrificing 3g to gain an extra 13g/3. 39g/3 is 13g for each of us. 10g on top of the end reward for doing the dungeon with 2 less people and one person dropping. It’s very profitable. It translates across all of the Arah paths, but P4 is the big money maker.
I still fail to see why it should be allowed. While it is a lot less cruel the way your method works, as it catches in there will be MANY groups where players will be kicked, so the spot can be sold.
It’s already very common practice for players to kick PUGs at Maw in Fractals to invite a friend, I’m sure you’ve seen many of these threads around the forum. Throw this into making profit? Yeah, a no brainer for many of the extremely greedy.
The problem needs to be addressed before that happens more.
Light Up the Darkness
“Dear ANet, nerf Paper, Scissors is fine. Sincerely, Rock”
Elysaurus | Warrior | [LOL] | League of the Legendary | Gandara (EU)
ANet ruled that selling dungeon spots like this is fine a long, long time ago. Back in probably October or November. You also shouldn’t assume that people running dungeons are actually kicking people to sell their spots maliciously. There have been a few threads similar to this one the past few weeks, and none of them have actually had any proof of anyone kicking innocent players to sell their spots (I could be wrong, I don’t recall any however).
Likewise you shouldn’t assume everybody is doing it your way. Best of both, and there will be both. It’s best to eradicate this whole system before any problem worsens.
That was a normal moderator, not a developer. Lies? Likely.
Hopefully it becomes so flooded with people selling dungeons, that it takes far too long to sell these spots, making the whole method worthless.
Light Up the Darkness
“Dear ANet, nerf Paper, Scissors is fine. Sincerely, Rock”
Elysaurus | Warrior | [LOL] | League of the Legendary | Gandara (EU)
It won’t become flooded with people selling spots because the only people that sell spots are those skilled enough to solo / duo it. I’ve had no competition so far
Aside from complaints from people being kicked, I’ve actually never heard from a person who did the kicking actually say they did it so they could sell the spot.
Perhaps I’m looking at the situation through rose tinted glasses, but I think situations where two people already have the intent to kick their party members before a dungeon starts is very rare. More likely is that during the run, people do something that really upsets the controlling party, and then they decide to kick the person.
I cannot fathom why the OP cares what other people pay for and what other people sell. Personally I am growing tired of the tedious moralizing from disinterested parties.
I cannot fathom why the OP cares what other people pay for and what other people sell. Personally I am growing tired of the tedious moralizing from disinterested parties.
If we don’t force our morality on other people, there will be no one that lives by it.
I pugged a ton of arah at some point in the past, I never got kicked from runs right at the end, ever. I don’t see where these supposed flood of people kicking to sell spots are coming from, but it looks more like an urban legend than an actual truth. If it even did happen once, it’s such an extremely rare occurrence that it wouldn’t be worth mentioning anywhere. And I’ve been in runs where I was the extra in a guild run with 4 people from the same guild. That’s where I had my first full group melee experience too. (before I only started meleeing at phase 2 in pugs)
- “No tears, please. It’s a waste of good suffering.”
As I said in another similar thread, I don’t see the fault in the seller as much as I see the fault in the buyer. If they are not capable enough to get through the content then they don’t deserve to complete the content (whatever happened to try harder next time or actually trying to figure out how to overcome your own personal shortcomings in a particular area?), the sense of everyone needs to be included in everything or it’s simply not fair has gone on long enough. I blame the public school system and participation rewards!
I wonder if this kind of transaction will pop up more often now that we can get full gold and tokens from a dungeon only once per day.
Let’s say a group of people who are used to dungeoning with each other complete their full circuit. What can they do next? Farm the queen’s loot carousel? Idle in LA? How about complete a path again, but at the end, have everyone but the instance owner drop and sell the 4 slots. Instance owner solos last boss, customers get tokens, the group of 5 who did most of the work get some gold and the loot along the way.
It’s likely that people will run out of dungeons to do for full rewards this weekend anyway…
The fact that you can get the vast majority of the dungeon reward by just hopping in for the last boss is what’s causing this problem. Yet another major flaw in arenanet’s dungeon design.
The reason selling spots are more popular now is because of the change in end rewards. Think about it, selling path 1/2 for 4-5g is very profitable for a good group once first run of the day is done. Basically selling spot would be the alternative of character switching in the past. A lot of people will take 4g for 3g+60token+1loot bag in a heartbeat, hardly any loss, and the original runners basically gets the daily reward again, and also all the previous champ bags. Problem? I don’t see any, the furthest I can go with is just saying it’s taking advantage of the situation.
So OP, I’d say there are probably far more legit sellers than kickers, there are actually a lot of people who can run p1p2p4 very quickly. Unless you are the one kicked then saw someone selling your spot, and btw also that you aren’t at any fault, open your eyes a bit more. There is less morality more of service/business here.
It won’t become flooded with people selling spots because the only people that sell spots are those skilled enough to solo / duo it. I’ve had no competition so far
People selling dungeon runs was a big problem before this patch, and now with more people running Arah (because of increased rewards), it’s becoming an even bigger problem.
Group leaders take a buddy, abuse 3 other people to get to the last boss, then kick the other 3 people to sell those spots at a profit.
Of course, there is no way to stop this happening, but a hindrance to those doing it is at least required – possibly make it so a new player cannot join a dungeon after a certain point (In Arah, I suggest after GL).
Until something official is done, I will encourage players to join these runs and leave without payment to discourage such behavior.
Now that I’ve read all the uhm.. information.. in this op.
I encourage you to mind your own business. This has 0 effect on you and yet here you are advocating people go out of their way to troll someone who’s likely doing an honest trade. There is someone I know who solos this and sells the spots, other times a full party will do it and then leave just the leader in and take a cut of the money afterwards.
I cannot fathom why the OP cares what other people pay for and what other people sell. Personally I am growing tired of the tedious moralizing from disinterested parties.
This. Thank you.
Grandmaster Forum Mind Brain
|-Swiftpaw Sharpclaw [DnT]-|
Until we see a rash of PUGers being regularly kicked and their slots sold… plus PROOF of it, there’s really nothing else to be said about this.
.
The exception up for discussion would then be to about how you fix it:
Simplest solution: If the kicked player made it through more than 50% of the Path before being kicked: then that player’s account is the one that gets 100% of the credit once the dungeon is completed and the Fillers only get 33% token/gold value, and NO credit towards Dungeon Master.
It won’t become flooded with people selling spots because the only people that sell spots are those skilled enough to solo / duo it. I’ve had no competition so far
It won’t become flooded with people selling spots because the only people that sell spots are those skilled enough to solo / duo it. I’ve had no competition so far
You are skilled enough?
Yes, and I use keybinds too
That’s the reason why i have problems believing!
I have yet to see your quaggan lupicus solo.
It won’t become flooded with people selling spots because the only people that sell spots are those skilled enough to solo / duo it. I’ve had no competition so far
You are skilled enough?
Yes, and I use keybinds too
That’s the reason why i have problems believing!
I have yet to see your quaggan lupicus solo.
Most of the threads complaining about people kicking others to sell spots are just them assuming that they kick people, only 1 occasion I know of where someone got kicked at the end, I pug arah all the time, it rarely happens.
Jeeha (ele) and Jeeha The Warrior
Is currently emotionally unstable because Breaking Bad is over
People are doing things I don’t want them to do that have zero effect on me. Please troll them so that they will stop doing the things I don’t want them to do.
The only problem with dungeon selling is that most of the arah p2 guys skip lupi (which i checked when i joined the runs and looked at where lupi wp and chest should be…)
i have no problem if the seats sold are people leaving of own free will or its because they did it with less people but if its because they kicked someone so they could sell then thats a diffrent story.
Commander Korsbaek lvl 80 Guardian
Ayano Yagami lvl 80 ele
I don’t give a kitten and I usually sell the path completion for the value of the dungeon reward (3.26s in this case). People joining in pay literally nothing in exchange for free tokens and I still get a reasonable 16g or so out of it. This is the same principle whether you’re charging dungeon completion reward or 10g; if people are paying it they clearly think it’s worth it. So tell me exactly who is losing out in this transaction?
Except that one thief who bought the run and found out you can’t get the dungeon reward twice, that guy got screwed.
Also, don’t encourage people to scam those who could be offering a legitimate service to others.
It’s not scamming. Etiquette is super simple stuff, dungeon selling shouldn’t be allowed, and those who attempt to should be punished for it.
And as for proof, I have none. I would not touch a group with a PUG entering with a bargepole, it’s asking for trouble. Why would people drop their own reward they sunk ~30 minutes into, probably to get maybe a 50s split for each spot is sold?
Well, P2 which are the ones OP has listed as being sold, can be completed in 15 min or less with a good group, no exploits.
Get the boss down to 1% or so and it is easily solod (it’s pretty easy from 100% too.)
4 people leave, 4 slots sold. 6g perslot, 24g pool, 4 people get their initial investment of completion 3.26g, that leaves 11g or so to be divided up by 5 or 2.2g per initial party member. 2 more gold is pretty good especially if you don’t need the tokens. Or the said starting party could run it once for their daily then again to be sold.
Simply put, the people selling such runs are not taking pugs to carry them then kicking them. Path 2 can be solod, (watch wethospu or whatever his name is.)
I see no problem with people selling runs, arah is pretty hard for people who don’t know the mechanics. Some people can do other dungeons really well but never really can get a hold of others, those people might want their DM title. I am happily ready to take their coin to help them.
The only problem with dungeon selling is that most of the arah p2 guys skip lupi (which i checked when i joined the runs and looked at where lupi wp and chest should be…)
You can skip lupi?
Jeeha (ele) and Jeeha The Warrior
Is currently emotionally unstable because Breaking Bad is over
People selling dungeon runs was a big problem before this patch, and now with more people running Arah (because of increased rewards), it’s becoming an even bigger problem.
Group leaders take a buddy, abuse 3 other people to get to the last boss, then kick the other 3 people to sell those spots at a profit.
Of course, there is no way to stop this happening, but a hindrance to those doing it is at least required – possibly make it so a new player cannot join a dungeon after a certain point (In Arah, I suggest after GL).
Until something official is done, I will encourage players to join these runs and leave without payment to discourage such behavior.
Why would you even support that last part. You are not unique and you don’t deserve special treatment. Being accepted in a group is a gift by those inside not the other way around you kitten . They are not required to take you with them or even play with and/or talk to you!
Selling their spots is a business transaction. You get a 4-5 min run and the tokens instead of having to do the whole 1/2/3 hours, and they get around 2 gold. They don’t know you, they don’t care about you and they wouldn’t invite you in the group in the first place because their time is important to them enough, so that they will do other things they enjoy if they get restricted. How do you even dare to assume you are such a pleasantry, people would go out of their way to take care of you and your need for tokens?!
Go find someone to teach you some ethics. Even Marx recognized that this kind of socialism – cause this is what it boils down to in a “society level” – is outside the realm of reality.
Sunny Dungeon for sale
230 000 gold
Fully furnished.
Great location, awesome neighborhood.
Good standing, clean and well maintained. Previous occupant took care of all the ghosts and spiders.
I made a thread something like this not too long ago, I got kicked out of the party when we were just about to fight the last boss at cof p3, and all i got from people here were;
“you suck man”
“learn to play”
“support guardian wtf”
As expected, many people bow are being victimized by this scam. Anet must and should do something about this.
On the other hand it is possible that many people suck and need to learn to play. Anet cannot help you with that.
Or you can try reading the first post and realize how the player was kicked at the last stage which is killing the boss. If he did sucked, he would of get the kick way before.
On the other hand it is possible that many people suck and need to learn to play. Anet cannot help you with that.
Or you can try reading the first post and realize how the player was kicked at the last stage which is killing the boss. If he did sucked, he would of get the kick way before.
Actually, not always the case. I’ve been in a pugged frac run a long time ago where the pugs were complaining all the time (with good reasons) about a thief in our group who literally went down every 5 seconds or so. At first I thought they didn’t kick him because they were being nice ( 3 of the group members knew each other ) but they in fact just kept him around just to kick him at the third fractal. That player was so bad that he was actually playing with almost completely broken armor, naked, and didn’t even think of relogging to repair or anything. They pretty much kept him around just for the sake of kicking him at the end after having spent 40 minutes in that group being laughed at. The third fractal was the swamp (it was a time where pugs hadn’t fully adopted rolling swamp as first yet) and they kicked him right before engaging mossman.
I don’t approve of this kind of thing and would almost certainly rather kick someone early, or, if I didn’t kick him, put up with it until the end, but there are people who will wait until the end to kick just because they hate you.
- “No tears, please. It’s a waste of good suffering.”
