Guild Wars 2

This is a Quote from colin

“alpha test groups learned to beat them using a combination of player skill, synchronous builds, strong use of cross-profession combos, use of cooking/consumable buffs (these make a huge difference!) and well formed player tactics.”

Now is it just me or is Almost all of that Completely impossible for a casual player or someone that doesn’t have a serious guild and mostly operates in PUGS.

I have played my necro for over 250hours now and played all 3 beta’s and have full exotic, And am using a nice round build i designed for dungeons, And am on skype with 3 friends and I still am finding the dungeons insanely hard.

there is simply no way on this earth that i could hope to bring my more casual friends with us and expect to succeed at them.

If all casual players are also bad players, then yes, it would be impossible for casual players.

And if they’re impossible for you and your friends because of lack of ability in this game, well, don’t do them. There’s plenty of other things to do in GW2 for those not so able at the game. That, or really just L2P.

Why does everything have to be an extreme? Why can’t the dungeons be hard enough that your speed of completion and amount of death is just proportionate to how good a player you are. Its all If you are a casual you suck and don’t do them, you will die over and over and be lost for 4 hours, but if you do EVERYTHING min/max you will be fine.

There are ways to put challenge in without limiting anyone ability to see content. Add rewards for completing dungeons with 4 and 3 players only. More gold, more items or something.

Reikou, you are saying that you can complete any Dungeon without death?
If so, please, troll somewhere else.
If you are NOT saying that, you did not read OP post, so troll somewhere else again

You don’t have to be a casual gamer to make mistakes (edited. Origional text: be a bad gamer). And you don’t need to be a bad gamer to have 4 other friends who might or might not make mistakes. Exploration mode, as they have explained,requires 5 well-trained professional gamers with exceptional coordinations.

A: I am not going to skype with some random weirdo on internet. Because it’s creepy.

B: I am not going to skype with some guy I know only on internet. Because it can jeopardize friendships or at least put doubts where they don’t exist before… or something. (I drop the f-bomb a lot in skype, but I aim to not be like that in all other cases.)

C: I am going to be skyp’ing with IRL friends, who might have really bad habit of taking over the radio or chat about non-dungeon related stuff and make the skype chat useless.

… D: My group of professional gamers, if I DO have one (I don’t) could be gunning for something like DotA/LoL/HoN tournaments where our coordinations and trainings and skills can at least garner some fames on internet (lulz) if not actual RL money. GW2 gives me armor skins. Even though it’s extremely fun and I am willing to invest the effort to get good, I can’t force 4 of my other friends to make the sacrifice. GW1 had GvG, what’s in GW2, PvP? Should we honestly equate sPvP with Dungeon in terms of glory, satisfaction, and reward? I personally don’t think so.

For being a game that heavily revolved around a motto of “friendly for casual players” and “not a grindfest”, it couldn’t be farther from that after level 80.

Endgame simply isn’t fun at all; it’s nothing but a grindfest on nearly every facet.

Scott.1630:

For being a game that heavily revolved around a motto of “friendly for casual players” and “not a grindfest”, it couldn’t be farther from that after level 80.

Endgame simply isn’t fun at all; it’s nothing but a grindfest on nearly every facet.

Well, this is only a problem AND a revelent one because they are linking directly Exploration Mode for dungeons with End Game. There’s other things to do beside for grinding for more things, but nobody would really want to do keg brawls… And there’s only keg brawls. And you don’t get to build anything special in your home instances. And you don’t get to keep up with Logan or Eir and check up on them and see how they are doing once in a while, perhaps getting new quests or random events and assist them in whatever they want.

Beside for the lack of end-game contents and something to persist player’s interest (Ok, I personally am a sucker at WvW so this isn’t that true for me, but let’s pretend for a moment that isn’t the case and I don’t PvP at all.), GW2’s lack of endgame really comes down to one single reason: It’s a new game and probably needed some more polish.

This is getting a bit off-topic, though. Back on-topic: Casual players. What’s a casual player’s goal in GW2? To have fun and possibly to matter. With the end game being primarily Dungeon Exploration Mode atm, they have nothing going for them. They can’t have fun because there’s nothing for them, and they don’t matter because there’s nothing designed for them.

(Again, I disagree with my own statement – I find WvW to be entertaining enough. Even though I am bad and my server is bad. But the point stands: Take dungeon away from casual players, and they have so little going for them at end game…)

The issue I have with dungeon’s is nothing to do with them being difficult or requiring a well co-ordinated group, it’s to do with several other things.

For a part of the game which requires good co-ordination and co-operation there are no options for doing this in game other than party chat.

While there are other things to do outside of dungeons, dynamic events, wvw, map completion, dungeons are the only way you can get better looking equipment.

Legendary weapons are a long term time investment and should not be considered as one of the things to do outside of dungeons, mainly because they also require components from dungeons.

My guild as ~100 members, most of us work full time, play evenings and/or weekends, some have wifes, husbands and kids. Very few of them are even interested in doing dungeons because they are playing to have fun, and dungeons just don’t offer that in there current state.

I enjoy them just as much if not more than other aspects of the game, but finding like minded people to do them, is a challenge in and of itself.

By creating content that is only there to please the minority of players, those with active well co-ordinated guilds with members who actively want to do dungeons because they have the time and/or patience to bang their heads against a brick wall.

For me to see Guildwars 2 last long term there needs to be greater option for me to progress my character.

Once I have 100% completion, there is little to keep me occupied short term, dynamic events are great and all, but they are boring after a few dozen times, there’s no reason other than to farm karma for the legendary components which will takes weeks, months of even years for a majority of players if they choose to commit to it.

If dungeons are to remain out of reach for the largest portion of players, then arena net need to implement other ways to gain better looking equipment. I’d rather not be stuck in knight’s draconic gear for the rest of my guild wars 2 career.

We have gone off topic. The point i was trying to make was that it is not ok to require some to need to know their class inside and out. And know other classes inside and out just so they can do syncro builds and cross prof combos. As it stands dungeons require the player to know a lot of things that you simply cant expect someone who.only plays 10-20 hours a week to know

Deepcuts.9740:

Reikou, you are saying that you can complete any Dungeon without death?
If so, please, troll somewhere else.
If you are NOT saying that, you did not read OP post, so troll somewhere else again

Perhaps not on the first try, but I can definitely figure out how to beat almost any dungeon with a random pug pretty easily.

Going 2-3 rounds, its pretty easy to get it down to having no deaths.

Reikou.7068:

Deepcuts.9740:

Reikou, you are saying that you can complete any Dungeon without death?
If so, please, troll somewhere else.
If you are NOT saying that, you did not read OP post, so troll somewhere else again

Perhaps not on the first try, but I can definitely figure out how to beat almost any dungeon with a random pug pretty easily.

Going 2-3 rounds, its pretty easy to get it down to having no deaths.

Then why after the magg nerf the only tactic people have that works is everything dying atleast 3 times?

Hardscript.3541:

This is a Quote from colin

“alpha test groups learned to beat them using a combination of player skill, synchronous builds, strong use of cross-profession combos, use of cooking/consumable buffs (these make a huge difference!) and well formed player tactics.”

Now is it just me or is Almost all of that Completely impossible for a casual player or someone that doesn’t have a serious guild and mostly operates in PUGS.

I have played my necro for over 250hours now and played all 3 beta’s and have full exotic, And am using a nice round build i designed for dungeons, And am on skype with 3 friends and I still am finding the dungeons insanely hard.

there is simply no way on this earth that i could hope to bring my more casual friends with us and expect to succeed at them.

It’s come to my attention you don’t know what a casual player is…. I personally am a casual (I haven’t even been in game for about a week) and I’ve done just fine…

Geez people need to realize casual =/= bad, casual = not much time to play on a regular basis…

It’s silly to think that every piece of content should be feasible for every type of player. If it’s too hard, either improve or ignore it. Dungeons are not integral to your enjoyment of the game (because if they were, you wouldn’t be playing).

When i say casual i mean someone that doesnt play often or is not a hardcore gamer. Someone that doesnt have time to research everything about the game. I am in no way saying casual =bad gamer.

To rephrase my op. Dungeons should not only be accessible to elitists.(do not derail again by arguing my use of the term elitist)

ColinJohanson.2394:

As for the question about PuG’s for explorable dungeons, we’ve said all along that explorable dungeons are intended for highly organized/skilled groups of players. That is absolutely the case

Explorable dungeons were not meant for casuals.

Fay.2735:

ColinJohanson.2394:

As for the question about PuG’s for explorable dungeons, we’ve said all along that explorable dungeons are intended for highly organized/skilled groups of players. That is absolutely the case

Explorable dungeons were not meant for casuals.

Casuals are not less-experienced players. Casuals are players that cannot devote the same amount of time that the more hardcore players can. Thus, expanding any assumed notion of grinding. Saying explorable dungeons arent meant for casuals is very shallow. I am a casual player and don’t invest more than 2-4 hours a day tops. Saying casuals can’t work towards something in a game is like saying Charr can’t enter Divinity’s Reach – its not realistic.

Hardscript.3541:

When i say casual i mean someone that doesnt play often or is not a hardcore gamer. Someone that doesnt have time to research everything about the game. I am in no way saying casual =bad gamer.

To rephrase my op. Dungeons should not only be accessible to elitists.(do not derail again by arguing my use of the term elitist)

In my opinion if you have to RESEARCH the fight you don’t deserve to beat the fight, I have yet to even look up mechanics for a fight just learn as you go!! I’m so happy I’m finally playing with people that don’t need to read off everything…

God that was so annoying in other MMOs Id have to mute vent so I didn’t need to hear the neckbeard speaking about every mechanic in the fight…. Every….single…week….

Dungeons in GW2 are designed with casual players in mind. You do not need nearly as much coördination, team composition or strategizing as GW1 ever needed. It’s just that casual players do not enjoy staring at health bars for hours on end. In the end they are pleasing no one but the grind players, whom are pleased with pretty much anything aslong as they get ‘virtual prestige’ in the process.

Seriously I do not believe ANYONE likes staring at health bars for hours. The dungeons in GW2 were rushed and flawed in design, that can be easily seen. They are an afterthought or alpha product ( would make sense with the huge differences between every dungeon, consistency is hard to find ) that got shipped with an otherwise pretty good game.

Let us all listen to the “fanboys” and “elitist” and Anet all casual players should be alienated and begone from the game, they can no longer let casuals have the experience of these so called endgame hardcore dungeons and no access to the elite skins of the specific dungeons because that is only for “fanboys” and “elite groups” because lets be honest for a casual player to even get a full set of dungeon gear would probably take a year, but i mean Anet says that works as intended.

So i purchased a game because of the advertised casual factor to find out that certain parts of it is not for casual gamers…….. hmmmm something odd there.

Now lets see them enjoy a ghost town ………..tumbleweed rolls by

I would like to see them fraps themselves killing a boss we the current playerbase said is impossible.

It would prove them right if done correctly /shrug.

I am a Casual player and the OP is just making drama. Casual player is not the same as a bad player. Exp Dungeons are doable. Enough said.

Reshima.2405:

I am a Casual player and the OP is just making drama. Casual player is not the same as a bad player. Exp Dungeons are doable. Enough said.

Read my previous post.

Hardscript.3541:

Reshima.2405:

I am a Casual player and the OP is just making drama. Casual player is not the same as a bad player. Exp Dungeons are doable. Enough said.

Read my previous post.

Ya, I gotta agree if it’s made only for elitists things need to change… But the fact me an my friends can just charge blindly forward and succeed probably mean it not elitist…. Btw I’m not talking bout Arah haven’t done Anything past SE (other then CoF story) so no comments on those…. Yet.

story mode was for casual players and explorable was for hardcore. Storymode will only drive casual players away from dungeons now

I’m mostly giving up on dungeons for the time being. I run the story modes, they’re ok IF there’s someone in party who knows what to expect and is willing to explain stuff. Otherwise there’s a lot of wipes and probably stressed out teammates, but it’ll get done, after those first runs, following runs tend to go smoother. But it’s explorable mode I have an issue with, I’ve only done two explorable modes. That is two attempts at completion, I’m not counting the few rinse and repeat runs of first two Arah bosses. It all seems do-able up to a point and then in come the “slightly larger than the last” group of mobs with ridiculous health pools, aoe’s, conditions, etc etc… both occasions no one had done the run before and we managed to beat one of those using the gloriously galiant graveyard hopping technique and the other dungeon was a disband… that probably makes me and the peeps i ran with crap at gw2 and means we need to learn to play, blah blah blah. Ok then, fine, I want to learn to play, but I’m not learning anything from these except to kite a lot… and never evade late,(if that’s literally all there is to it… I better get practicing those dodges more or something -.-) plus the helpful fact there are not an awful lot of people who want to teach others how to run explorable mode, which says to me that in order to do explorable dungeons I need to play immaculately with a squad that also plays immaculately… which means already knowing what to expect.

What I’d love? A Normal mode Explorable and a hardmode explorable. Much lower tokens from Normal mode but… the ability to learn how to run it so you know what to expect when you get to do the real deal. Lol IMO the whole game could do with normal/hard modes but then maybe I’m just a bit die hard gw1…

darkehawke.1269:

story mode was for casual players and explorable was for hardcore. Storymode will only drive casual players away from dungeons now

Story mode is super easy though… Idk how that’d drive them away… Hell idk how dungeons period will drive casuals away they’re not that time consuming, it’ll drive bad players who don’t want to get better away in boat loads though…

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Durzlla.6295

darkehawke.1269:

story mode was for casual players and explorable was for hardcore. Storymode will only drive casual players away from dungeons now

Story mode is super easy though… Idk how that’d drive them away… Hell idk how dungeons period will drive casuals away they’re not that time consuming, it’ll drive bad players who don’t want to get better away in boat loads though…

just ran a CM and they added more elite and champion mobs. i was being sniped from ridiculous distances. they made story mode a lot harder though, and i’m fairly experienced in dungeons. good luck to a group doing it for the first time with their lev 40 gear