Guild Wars 2

I hate dungeons because they are far too easy and really boring mechanic wise.

The fact that your MMO beginner family is having hard time is normal….its not because the content is too hard……in fact its rather simple by any serious MMO standard I know of. Instead of asking Anet to make the content even easier for that minority of players why don’t you teach them how to get past that ‘beginner’ stage so they join the rest of the casuals. These dungeons can be beat by random pugs of the most casual of casuals ….ive seen it. So your crew just seems like an extreme exception and the just need some experience and practice. Dumbing down the content even further really wont do them any favors if they ever wish to expand their MMO play. GW2 is pretty much a MMO on training wheels…..might as well take advantage of it and have them learn something.

By lumping your inexperienced crew into the “Casual” category you are implying that the games dungeon content is for hardcore only……which frankly is utter BS……its extremely casual friendly. No gear checks…….the only thing required is awareness and class knowledge……..which can only come from practice….not dumbing down content.

Well there is a difference between casual and completely new to the genre.

The dungeons are hard at first and like everything the more you do them the easier they get.

For a tip I would go to the mists and practice on your teamwork. When is good to rez? who rezzes? Who trows up boons? when? who can remove conditions? who can distract mobs? who burst damages? Who calls targets? which targets are prioritized? (hint in AC its the monks) Does this boss has a special mechanic?. Remember every character can do any role, but you still need to decide who does what.

The game is geared for casual gamers because you don’t need to play 10 hours a day just to keep up with a gear treadmill. You can play this game once a week and have the same chance as everyone else because the “end game items” are cosmetic only but this does not mean your team should not prepare for the ride.

You know like driving a long distance… its pretty easy, yet you pick your music, snacks and plan route, etc. Knowing who does what really helps.

And finally get the odds in you favor. you can carry 2 buffs with you 1 from cooking (recommend the one that gives you extra damage to ghosts for AC) and 1 from potions suggest one that ups toughness to help out. BTW are all using appropriated level armor? if its 5 below your current level then you need to upgrade same with weapons.

Part of the fun is actually playing like a team… it makes it feel more epic to overcome the challenge knowing you had a specific role in you ride.

“It seems very odd that the game in general is so easy and forgiving, then when you enter dungeons everything is flipped around.”

I’m finding the key to dungeons is having good teamwork and communication. Dungeons where people actually talked to each other worked much better then complete silence.

However! Out of several of the story mode dungeons, AC was certainly challenging for being the lowest level, but I find that Ghosts in general are somewhat stronger then other monster types.

Regardless, if the people you are playing with are completely new to the genre/gaming/rpgs/3D environments, they may need more time with the game to learn their professions better, or figure out good skill combinations or build, or even get a better feel for the controls. Even as someone who has played mmorgs for years, it takes me a significant period of time to get a handle on the controls, but I understand that and adapt for it.

There is benefit to doing the dungeons when you reach the Story Mode levels, but not completing them until you feel more comfortable with your profession may be required. Certainly if you’re “dying instantly” as you say, since that’s implying you don’t even make it to the Boss monsters. I ended up dying several times on my first AC story mode run through, but was able to continue with the party and eventually finish.

Okay, since most people seem to say the same thing, which is “Your family sucks and needs serious training, read guides!”, I’m going to write one last response and then basically just tune out.

Some of you say that story mode will be too hard to finish for them because there’s a dungeon at the end (btw. thanks for spoiler!), but that’s perfectly fine… and here’s why:
They’re/We’re not here whining that dungeons sucks, we’re asking for a simple and nice way for NEW players to get into dungeons, and playing the ENTIRE game is a pretty kitten good way to be introduced to something, don’t you think?! >_>
I’m sure it’ll still be hard as hell playing that last dungeon, I’d expect it to be! but by then you would have had time to practice and get ready for something like that.
But as of right now, at level 30, you just get a random mail in your mailbox saying “Come play Ascalonian Catacombs!” and of course they’ll be interested and go try it out, only to get end game content showed down their throat!
Even though it clearly says “Level 30”.

I’m really sad that so many people are offended by my simple suggestion for Easy Mode, and only saying “Story Mode is Easy Mode!!!!1111”, what’s the harm with having more people enjoy dungeons, even if it’s on a easier difficulty?

And calling Casuals “bad players” is just rude, seriously, wtf?
If your mother or some completely new player started playing Guild Wars 2 an hour or two per day, I hope you’d support them by saying “Way to go!” instead of “YOU SUCK, YOU’LL NEVER GET TO DO DUNGEONS AND YOU’LL NEVER BEAT THE GAME!”.

Playing this game with all my casual friends is a real blast!
The rest of the content is fine, they’ve played PvP and done very well for themselves, played WvWvW and been in massive battles etc.
It’s just a real shame they won’t get to experience dungeons until they’re basically done with the game and are all level 80, when all that stuff matters less, as most of them just play for the story missions.

Now if you excuse me, I’m going to go play some Guild Wars 2 WITHOUT strategy guides and the wiki! omg can you imagine that?! LOLZ=?"!!

Cancer.9065:

Well there is a difference between casual and completely new to the genre.

The dungeons are hard at first and like everything the more you do them the easier they get.

For a tip I would go to the mists and practice on your teamwork. When is good to rez? who rezzes? Who trows up boons? when? who can remove conditions? who can distract mobs? who burst damages? Who calls targets? which targets are prioritized? (hint in AC its the monks) Does this boss has a special mechanic?. Remember every character can do any role, but you still need to decide who does what.

The game is geared for casual gamers because you don’t need to play 10 hours a day just to keep up with a gear treadmill. You can play this game once a week and have the same chance as everyone else because the “end game items” are cosmetic only but this does not mean your team should not prepare for the ride.

You know like driving a long distance… its pretty easy, yet you pick your music, snacks and plan route, etc. Knowing who does what really helps.

And finally get the odds in you favor. you can carry 2 buffs with you 1 from cooking (recommend the one that gives you extra damage to ghosts for AC) and 1 from potions suggest one that ups toughness to help out. BTW are all using appropriated level armor? if its 5 below your current level then you need to upgrade same with weapons.

Part of the fun is actually playing like a team… it makes it feel more epic to overcome the challenge knowing you had a specific role in you ride.

I dont usually bother myself with this sort of thing much but i must say that i find your choice of username quite disgusting.

Jeez, I thought the GW2 community were supposed to be “friendly”.

But sure, I’m sorry Smackjack.
I’m sorry for trying to enjoy this game with my beginner family and I’m sorry for not enjoying GW2’s PvP.
And I’m sorry for not being able to beat the dungeons (even though I clearly stated that I probably could do it, and that the issue were that my first time computer gaming friends had a very hard time doing the dungeons, not me… see the difference?)

I guess we should just give up and move to another game! \o/

It is your ridiculous mentality that you portrait that i had issue with i dont do X because i dont get a reward so what is the point which is why i had the question why you were gaming at all in there.

@Hezkore
On the other hand, what you are asking for is simply nonviable.
Just ask yourself how can a game introduce the concept of holy trinity to casual players within a dungeon setting. It won’t do itself: the transititon from a zerg to a trinitarian mode of execution does not manifest itself as dungeon difficulty increases, unless you are specifically told how you are supposed to build and play your character (which is, curiously, what wow 5.0 does today). Rather, it is the need to clear the dungeon itself pressing enough for players to read up and learn how to do encounters properly, and utilize a effective build. IMHO It is the job of the devs to communicate such concepts to the community, hoping it would pick up itself and be transmitted within as some collective knowledge.

I think rather than complaining dungeons are too hard, it would be better to try analyzing their play. Maybe you just stay back in LA and watch your family play; maybe the problem is in their builds; maybe they don’t help out everyone else properly; maybe they don’t try to dodge out of the way. As a seasoned player you are unfortunately burdened with this responsibility, and not to expect the game to help you out (unless, we want to dumb down builds to wow 5.0 standards.)

Oh dear, 0/10 for obvious troll in here, and the bad priority call was awesome too.

anyways I’ll simply address the OP.

I agree, that there is a very huge difficulty jump that could be a LOT smoother for STORY MODE dungeons. I wholeheartedly still feel the buff to the difficulty AND the nerf to the CM story mode dungeon was not necessary, that it and AC should have been swapped around and that even though the rewards needed a knock down that they did get, they didn’t have to buff the rest of the content to include too much new things at once that could cheese a player.

However, I urge you to stick with the dungeons and learn them because they WILL become a lot better, but it’s the one aspect of the PVE where you HAVE to adapt to it and work as a team well, not amazingly well just “well enough” and not expect the game to accommodate your every play style preference.

Your mistake was just playing AC. For whatever reason, the first dungeon in the game’s story mode is one of the scariest by a long shot. For the most part Story Modes are “easy” mode for the rest of the dungeons but by sanity AC is unforgiving in comparison to say CM or some other story modes.

The dungeons are supposed to be end game content in my opinion and really aren’t designed for casual players. World pvp and pve is more for casual players.

SM is too long and has no reward for casuals other than basically “keying” you for far easier Explorable dungeons <well most of the time>. Even then you can be pulled in if someone else has completed SM.

As far as I can see casuals and randoms don’t have problems with dungeons cause they are too hard, it’s because they haven’t realized yet that dungeons in GW2 are not like instances in games like WoW.
As a matter of fact, dungeons are more about surviving the enemies instead of taking them down as fast as possible. And that’s a new mechanic for most players, cause other MMOs and even most of GW2 open pve and dynamic events don’t work that way. As long as you are in the open world you learn that you need a lot of dps in order to participate in dynamic events and that regular pve mobs are easier to deal with if you take them down before the can use their combos.
The game also doesn’t show you that you really have to dodge unless you are in a dungeon. At the beginning, even scholar professions can take hit from most of the veteran and even some of the champion mobs and survive it. But again, that’s not how it works in dungeons. If you go in there all glasscannony you are a burden for your group, and if most of your group is build that way things get messy.
Dungeons are all about avoiding damage while supporting your group as best as you can. Yes, there needs to be some DPS too, but since there is no Holy Trinity and therefor no tank you also can’t have any pure dps professions.

Each player, no matter if he’s a casual or not, just needs to understand that this games isn’t about killing mobs, it’s about surviving them. Once they got that, dungeons become a lot easier.

nachtnebel.9168:

As a matter of fact, dungeons are more about surviving the enemies instead of taking them down as fast as possible.

As long as you are in the open world you learn that you need a lot of dps in order to participate in dynamic events and that regular pve mobs are easier to deal with if you take them down before the can use their combos.

The game also doesn’t show you that you really have to dodge unless you are in a dungeon.

can i ask you wich class do you use….because i know only maybe a couple that needs dugeon to improve their gamestyle…

What i see in dungeon is really different, mostly how to fool AI with some sort of not intended kiting, or zerg 5 VS1 trying desperately to wipe a single target out before the rest of the enemies wipe out the party so at the respawn you get 1 less opponents……

Honestly I think the problem is that GW2’s dungeons are so radically different from the norm that most players don’t have a sodding clue how to play them. That and personally I think Anet did a very poor job of educating people on how to play their new style of dungeon play.

So all those who generally research every aspect of their class and their enemy fall into the “It’s fun and after a while gets a bit easy.” category.

All those who don’t normally analyse every single aspect fall into the “This is utter chaos, what the hell are we supposed to do here?” category.

Personally I’m a mix of both, after over a decade of raid MT I know how to play my class but the way GW2’s dungeons play out is very different to everything I’ve experienced.

There are other problems as well, glass cannon no vit/toughness builds/gearing works perfectly fine out in Tyria so people go with it, they walk into a dungeon like that and get splattered.

At the levels you are actually supposed to do the dungeons you only have two stats on a piece of armour so it’s not unusual to find players without vit or toughness, if it’s required for dungeons there shouldn’t be a single piece of amour at the pre three stat armour pieces that is glass cannon, it should all have either vit or toughness on it.

Most defensive/support abilities are so subtle (so as not to make any one

class a dedicated tank or healer) that it’s not particularly obvious what their benefits are to average skilled players, let alone below average skill players.

People say read the guides but in general they are utterly useless, they skip all the really important details mainly because I suspect most of the authors (not all, there must be some good ones out there somewhere) generally don’t know the real way to deal with them, they just sort of wing it by playing to the best of their abilities and hoping everyone else does the same. Others use minor exploits/tricks and some relied extensively on heavily nerfed builds/abilites that no longer function as well (Guard

Retliation/Line of Warding pre nerf). Not to mention they are generally kitted out in full exotics at level 80, which regardless of scaling does make a difference, especially versus a level 30 in poor gear (bearing in mind it’s not obvious what gear should be used in a dungeon).

Ironically the hardest part my group of real life friends found in the dungeons was and still is to some degree learning how to deal with large groups of trash mobs, we find bosses to be a challenge but nothing we find alien, they play much the same as bosses do in other games with more doding required, trash however can’t be effectively CC’d like in other games.

As a result we had relatively little trouble with AC, instead we found Caudecus’s Manor to be far more chaotic and frustrating due to the tight spaces and large groups of trash.

With no effective crowd control you use every little thing you have in a mass melee that you try and brawl your way through, standing still because snipers do massive amounts of damage/knockdowns to moving players, dodging and moving because the Bomber’s AoE’s are lethal all the while being chased around by melee bosses/mobs.

It’s not that it’s badly designed, it’s that nobody for one second thought…

“What if new players don’t instinctively know what to do?”

“Maybe we should train them up a little, gradually until they get the hang of it?”.

We are adjusting, two of us (the more experienced of our group) two manned our way through large sections of the Explorable modes (not all of course) paying close attention to what the mobs do so we can figure out what to do when the chaos of an inexperienced group encounter isn’t getting in the way.

The lack of defensive stats on gear is probably a major contributing factor to how difficult we first found it, but as stated previously it isn’t needed out in the rest of the game so it’s inevitable that players are going to end up in dungeons as glass cannons when they start out and wonder why it’s all going to hell.

They never said or claimed dungeons would be for casuals.
The open world is, is that not enough for you? I doubt any casual player has its “Been there, done that” title yet, including you.

Personally I feel dungeons are for people who seek to improve their skill as a player. For anyone who goes in and expects it to be open world PvE is in for a disappointment.
When I did my first dungeon with a PUG of firsttimers we got stomped, and made me not want to go back there again. Yet, after 10 levels I felt I was up for the challenge, and made it through a lot easier. Every time I did another dungeon I improved my own skill, to survive better, deal more damage, offer more support.
You don’t go in a dungeon and expect to stomp through it with your open world PvE mind- and skill set… well, you can if you’re experienced enough, or get carried by a good team, but for the casual player that’s not gonna happen.

Morkath.9702:

There are other problems as well, glass cannon no vit/toughness builds/gearing works perfectly fine out in Tyria so people go with it, they walk into a dungeon like that and get splattered.

At the levels you are actually supposed to do the dungeons you only have two stats on a piece of armour so it’s not unusual to find players without vit or toughness, if it’s required for dungeons there shouldn’t be a single piece of amour at the pre three stat armour pieces that is glass cannon, it should all have either vit or toughness on it.

Well, dungeons were advertised as the high-end PvE content, so it only makes sense an inexperienced player running a glasscannon build gets shattered.
The dungeons are a lot harder if you do them at the minimum level requirements, but still do-able in a decent team (a lot easier to find now with more people being level 80). Luckily you can do them at any level, so if you struggle with them, level up some more and try again later.

Morkath.9702:

People say read the guides but in general they are utterly useless, they skip all the really important details mainly because I suspect most of the authors (not all, there must be some good ones out there somewhere) generally don’t know the real way to deal with them, they just sort of wing it by playing to the best of their abilities and hoping everyone else does the same. Others use minor exploits/tricks and some relied extensively on heavily nerfed builds/abilites that no longer function as well

Now I haven’t checked dungeon guides, but you can’t blame the guides of having every little detail in them. It’s just not practical with so many possible professions, traits, skillsets, weapon combos. And generally encounters are dealt with better through experience than watching it on a video.

Milennin.4825:

Well, dungeons were advertised as the high-end PvE content, so it only makes sense an inexperienced player running a glasscannon build gets shattered.
The dungeons are a lot harder if you do them at the minimum level requirements, but still do-able in a decent team (a lot easier to find now with more people being level 80). Luckily you can do them at any level, so if you struggle with them, level up some more and try again later.

Even though I agree with the sentiment, honestly I don’t believe that is the case, I know because I’ve followed GW2 for a long time that they are intended to be an end game activity as well but the very act of making the first one available at level 30 suggests to everyone that they aren’t purely end game content.

Milennin.4825:

Now I haven’t checked dungeon guides, but you can’t blame the guides of having every little detail in them. It’s just not practical with so many possible professions, traits, skillsets, weapon combos. And generally encounters are dealt with better through experience than watching it on a video.

Well I’m not expecting every little detail but most of them seem to cover the really obvious stuff and skip what I and my team find to be the most difficult content, the trash. Maybe others find the bosses harder.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not in favour of decreasing difficulty of the dungeons, they seem quite fun, I’m in favour of educated, improving the learning curve on them, quite simply the vast majority of MMO players aren’t going to take to a completely new style of dungeon gameplay without a little help.

Morkath.9702:

Even though I agree with the sentiment, honestly I don’t believe that is the case, I know because I’ve followed GW2 for a long time that they are intended to be an end game activity as well but the very act of making the first one available at level 30 suggests to everyone that they aren’t purely end game content.

Yes, but only because they aren’t purely endgame content, doesn’t mean they’re casual-friendly. I remember in an old article a dev said dungeons were problably harder than any of GW1’s elite areas.

Again, this is not an unreasonable concept:

First Dungeon: Introduce players to the concept of dungeons. Make it clear that team work is required and that the difficulty will exceed anything seen in PVE thus far. Make it doable for even moderately/low skilled Pugs.

Every Other Dungeon In the Game After The First: as hard as the game makers want to make it, now that the basics have been introduced.

That’s it. Nothing complicated. Just introduce dungeons like every other concept in a game is introduced, before ramping it up in difficulty.

I think you are struggling most with the learning curve. Dungeons aren’t that difficult, you just have to learn the mechanics and concepts of them. Dodging is essential, focused fire on silver mobs is a huge advantage, survivability in your build is immensely helpful, crowd control skills are amazing, support skills for your team (not just yourself) will go a long way. After you have considered all these, then you can look at DPS. When starting out in dungeons, generally you have to play differently from how you would in casual PvE. You are also pushed to work together as a team and look for efficiency and advantage in how all five people can work together to become more than the sum of the parts. You have an advantage over PuGs (who are doing this content) because you can practice and perfect combo fields, like blindness for melee mobs, rotations on crowd control like fear, water combo fields and blast finishers for AoE healing, light combo fields and projectiles for condition removal etc. Some of these are a lot more powerful than the utility skills alone and really help out in dungeons.

I find a good way to approach dungeons is to begin with a very conservative and defensive build. This allows me to have the best ability to recover from mistakes. On a ranger that usually means ranged pets to avoid aggroing mobs and to allow me to learn the mobs of the dungeon and which pets might help best without them being face stomped immediately, signet of renewal for condition removal, signet of the wild for health regeneration (this is a huge one, regaining health outside of the healing cooldown can be a massive boon to me and really helps to forgive mistakes) and some other skill. Rangers don’t have a lot of party support outside from utilities outside of the largely useless spirits so until I can swap in traps or something else, this is a good way to start a dungeon with some kind of error margin. As you get better at it you will know what to swap in and out for each encounter and will learn how to avoid getting stomped so that you can run less defensive set ups.

I also started out with green cleric’s armour and worked my way towards an exotic offensive set. The toughness and healing helped me to survive the encounters and recover from my mistakes enough to work towards a DPS set up.

Finally, food is a huge advantage most people forgo. On a crit build, Ghost Pepper Poppers can almost permanently chill your target. That’s a huge advantage and invaluable crowd control. Mango Pies are good for regaining health when you need something extra outside of your healing skill and there is even food which will fill your endurance faster or increase health while downed, both of which dramatically alter your survivability and the kinds of things you can do in a dungeon. On top of this there is a separate buff (you can only have one food buff, so only one of the above bonuses can be chosen at a time) for potions which offer flat damage reductions and damage increases. Using these makes a huge difference.

The dungeons certainly have a sharp learning curve and are very different from general PvE, but when you accept you will have to play differently and look at the depth of options available to you and reconsider how you play your class and interact with your group, you will notice it’s not as difficult as it first seemed.

In my opinion, Story mode is too difficult for casuals. I feel that they balanced the game around masterwork gear that is by their level instead of undergeared players. It should have a lower difficulty.

However, Arena Net wants you to take your time and reassess the situation instead of running to your death. Why are you not succeeding? What does this boss do? How can we survive this? How can we avoid that attack? What are our strength and weakness? When you answer your questions, you can better fight the mobs and bosses. It requires communication with each other. You speak to each other and discuss on how to proceed.

Otherwise, if you are not that kind of person. Just look up on guides to defeat them.

runeblade.7514:

In my opinion, Story mode is too difficult for casuals. I feel that they balanced the game around masterwork gear that is by their level instead of undergeared players. It should have a lower difficulty.

However, Arena Net wants you to take your time and reassess the situation instead of running to your death. Why are you not succeeding? What does this boss do? How can we survive this? How can we avoid that attack? What are our strength and weakness? When you answer your questions, you can better fight the mobs and bosses. It requires communication with each other. You speak to each other and discuss on how to proceed.

Otherwise, if you are not that kind of person. Just look up on guides to defeat them.

I agree with what you say with regard to tactics and working things out, but I dont think you need to be mega-geared up to complete a dungeon. I played with a couple of my friends with a rag-tag set-up of armour and character levels from 62 down to 30 (i know you get leveled down, but you still keep your traits) we completed the Ascalonian Catacombs story mode no problem and made I made a tidy 40 silver profit…certainly no need to make the dungeon easier! The rest of the game is far too easy as it is without removing the only real PvE challenge.
I think that one mistake that people make is to wait to get to high levels with mega armour before trying the first dungeon. The repair costs for the exotic armour will be far more than if you rock up with some masterwork or rare armour…why have level 80 armour when you get bumped down to level 30!
You are spot on with having a think about the situation before charging in…to me the dungeons in GW2 represent the essence of what a good PvE challenge should be. Communicate, play your role, but most of all enjoy the challenge!

Problem is allll those little weapon abilities and utility skills you never gave more than a passing glance, many of those become useful in dungeons. Your team simply doesn’t know how yet, but dont stress it comes with time. Hell youll be doing explorables soon enough but you gotta take a step back and progress slow (hint hint: Target ghostly rangers first, dont open too many coffins at the start, use BOULDERS)