Guild Wars 2

sorry disconnected!

let me rephrase that.

This Chick is right!

I have pugged half of explore mode paths. Yes, some of them can take a while to complete, but after 1st run, it became much smoother.

Also check your gear, your traits, don’t expect to survive if you have all magic finder gear and no vitality, toughness. Try to learn some boss big hit patterns!

I am amazed at how some people can be that bad, and then say the are “casual.” I am casual player too, that doesn’t mean I just walk in a dungeon with trash gear and expect to succeed.

Again, casual =/=don’t care about gear, traits, don’t learn boss behaviors, etc.

Nihao.1527:

I have pugged half of explore mode paths. Yes, some of them can take a while to complete, but after 1st run, it became much smoother.

Also check your gear, your traits, don’t expect to survive if you have all magic finder gear and no vitality, toughness. Try to learn some boss big hit patterns!

I am amazed at how some people can be that bad, and then say the are “casual.” I am casual player too, that doesn’t mean I just walk in a dungeon with trash gear and expect to succeed.

Again, casual =/=don’t care about gear, traits, don’t learn boss behaviors, etc.

Not disagreeing with what you’re saying, but this thread isn’t about ‘omg dungeons are too hard’, as already stated, it’s about lack of… interesting mechanics.

I DO like that there isn’t a set ‘trinity’ in GW2, but a lot of the dungeon fights themselves are still … cliche (pew pew while not getting hit, run around and dodge/heal).

While I’m not a ‘fangirl’ of WoW by any stretch, they did have some pretty cool fights (most of black temple, the princes wing, prof putricide and dreamwalker fights in ICC, and the little cata stuff I actually did that wasn’t in LFR), which would be even BETTER if you take out the trinity.

All we ask is to please reduce the number of ‘dodge X barely telegraphed move or insta die’ identical looking fights across the board, it’s not ‘hard’, it’s boring.

Frostbite.8459:

Michael Fejervary.8576:

Artorous.8573:

ANet said multiple times, before the game was release, just what they thought about dungeons. They want them to be challenging content for a group of players that is willing to communicate among themselves. That does not mean using vent as it can easily be accomplished with the in game chat.

If you don’t want to communicate and expect everything to go smoothly, then that’s your fault. Try actually getting better at the game instead of QQing on the forums. A full Arah clear nets me 1.5s in repairs because I communicate with my group, mark targets to be focused down, and I don’t just go in with the highest DPS spec/gear makeup.

The majority of the pugs I’ve joined go like this: Group of 5 mobs agros > Everyone picks random mob to solo because they’re bamf’s > Group proceeds to wipe > After rezzing I start marking targets to be focused down > Mobs die, players live, dungeon complete.

Why don’t you start at the top post that the OP wrote, and then try again. K?

Thanks!

I knew that this would happen. OP read my earlier post. You never really mentioned why you thought that dungeons weren’t fun other than “overpowered trash mobs”. That makes it look like you don’t find them fun because they’re too difficult. As a result, the point of your post becomes convoluted.

Umm, prior to that “overpowered trash mobs” comment he did state an example. Read back on the first half of the post where he was talking about EotN in GW1.

He did not state anything about his view of it being to hard or to easy in that or this game other than he did not find it fun to play a dungeon that has a few overpowered trash mobs.

I agree. I found the level of fun to be way different in GW1, and like the OP was expecting the hype given by Anet about EotN and GW2 and the future of dungeons to be way different than what we now have.

Casual here mostly I guess. I am waiting to get a full set of exotics to start explorable runs (no one does Melandru so I have to wait to buy my next piece=/). So maybe most of what I say isn’t useful but I will toss in on Story mode.

AC – Terrible design. Hated the small spaces. Random difficulty spikes on bosses/trash. The camera just doesn’t work right here for me.

CM (Pre-Patch!) – Insanely easy. Too easy. Who came up with the idea of “Does more damage when moving”? The whole “investigate thing” got irritating doing multiple runs, but I suppose we aren’t meant we farm it like I did.

TA – I loved this dungeon tbh. Different mobs have unique abilities (ranger/hammer/fear), but the dungeon allows you to skip some mobs if you want. Different bosses from easy to so so (its SM /shrug). But at least the bosses all did something unique. The final fight after doing all SM dungeons is one of my favorites.

CoF – Fun, but average. Boss fight was kinda neat I suppose.

SE – All but Kudo fight was good (Kudo just lasted TOO long imo and dragged on). Final fight was a huge letdown. Yes hes big, but essentially duoable, and probably soloable.

HotW – Average. I don’t even remember it other than birds in my face. Neat looking and idea for a setting though.

CoE – Ugh. Seriously too much HP on these guys. Kudo final fight was interesting but lasted WAY to long for it remain that way. Hopping from three forms is enough, you don’t have to then add some Vex Thall length on these guys.

Arah – Meh, some fun fights. But letdown all together.

If there is one thing I agree on with the OP more than most is that trash mobs are NOT fun. Let them die fast and have us move on. Overall I don’t think they are the best designed dungeons ever, but not the worse. Maybe that will change when I get my exotic set and go into Explorable (which will hopefully be fixed by then.)

Frostbite.8459:

Michael Fejervary.8576:

Artorous.8573:

ANet said multiple times, before the game was release, just what they thought about dungeons. They want them to be challenging content for a group of players that is willing to communicate among themselves. That does not mean using vent as it can easily be accomplished with the in game chat.

If you don’t want to communicate and expect everything to go smoothly, then that’s your fault. Try actually getting better at the game instead of QQing on the forums. A full Arah clear nets me 1.5s in repairs because I communicate with my group, mark targets to be focused down, and I don’t just go in with the highest DPS spec/gear makeup.

The majority of the pugs I’ve joined go like this: Group of 5 mobs agros > Everyone picks random mob to solo because they’re bamf’s > Group proceeds to wipe > After rezzing I start marking targets to be focused down > Mobs die, players live, dungeon complete.

Why don’t you start at the top post that the OP wrote, and then try again. K?

Thanks!

I knew that this would happen. OP read my earlier post. You never really mentioned why you thought that dungeons weren’t fun other than “overpowered trash mobs”. That makes it look like you don’t find them fun because they’re too difficult. As a result, the point of your post becomes convoluted.

I did mention/hint at why I did not find the dungeons fun, and that was above this following qoute of myself;

“I really want to love all parts of this game, but I just cannot love a dungeon that has some good “Boss Battles” while having otherwise BORING and NON-FUN content being made up of sparse overpowered trash mobs.”

Read the whole section above that part where I talked about EotN and if you have never played GW1 as some have pointed out then maybe you should or at the very least go to its wiki and read about dungeons and missions.

I am not saying everything about that game or even its difficulty was perfect, but at least even with those areas that took learning to overcome the PROCESS was FUN.

Again, just something I do not feel here in these dungeons.

No matter what I say or how I say it it is bound to become convoluted by one side or the other if that is their desire. So really I don’t care.

I am not sorry that my view does not equal your (or others here for that matter) view, and that I do not find challenge or fun in a dungeon design that has FEW MOBS (with overpowered stats) lightly dotted around the dungeon compared to having TONS OF MOBS that actually make that dungeon space feel alive.

I am not sorry for feeling that as I walk through a dungeon it just feels EMPTY on its way to that the next key spot for something to happen.

They are very linear with no real surprise factor involved, and even for some of the new ideas with interactions such as traps they just really do not leave that same feeling that GW1 left you with.

I totally agree with the OP, i loved the EoTN dungeons and i was expecting a similar enjoyment but it wasn’t like that. let me explain what i mean.
In GW1 every aspect of the game prepare the player for the dungeon, because it use the same mechanics and logic as the outside world, the trash mobs aren’t stronger and overpowered but there are more of them, something that can be easily resolved with good tactics, positioning and creativity. The player could have used body blocking. Every dungeon had a different mechanic, understand it and live if you will not do that then RIP, the best example that i can give is shards of orr the player need to know which groups to attack and who to avoid, when to pull and when to fall back. correct me if i’m wrong here but GW2 prefer to use the waves mechanism or linked enemies, attack one and 10 will come toward you it doesn’t matter if their location was far, fall back and the enemies will reset which means a lot less room for creative thinking and mistakes, there is no way to snipe because the enemy will get invulnerable after few hits.
I can’t understand the aggro in this game why 10 mobs need to attack my guardian even if i never attacked them, why cant i shake them from me? do i have to use hit and run tactics to survive?
Regarding the mark one to attack, yup we marked one and all of us attacked it the other 9 attacked me. this is not fun.

I lead countless dungeon runs (i loved them) when i played GW1 i didn’t cared what was the build of my party, we can adapted and be creative, in GW2 i feel that there is few viable builds the rest are bad, use the wrong build or the wrong gear and the player is toast.

I love difficult encounters i want to use my brain to understand the mechanics, i want to be able to corner pull body block and at the end receive a reward that worth the time i spent.

My suggestion for GW2 dungeon, is that Anet should write an article about the aggro mechanism and explain how it work. Add a training option to the STORY mode (like the hard mode option in GW1), this option will give easier encounters with lesser rewards, give us the option to body block and snipe. disable the mob reset let us pull as far as we want.

Deleting FUN stuff from game.. sounds like Blizzard all over again.
and thats why i just left WoW.
make a HARDCORE mode or whatever for the fanboys. but let the normal gamers also gain points please.

I really want the dungeons to be challenging. The first few times I did dungeons they kicked mykitten but I learned more about my class and got better.

Harder =/= more HP/damage from mobs. It’s just frustrating.

Okay….So when someone points out that the OP is upset because the game offers a challenge people say no, he wants cooler mechanics. So if you died to cooler mechanics would you stop complaining? My guess is no, you more than likely want an easy game and don’t care to improve. The WoW comments, while they maybe annoying to you, actually make sense if you want “underpowered trash”. I say “underpowered” because I consider this trash “normal”.

I was a Vanilla WoW and EQ player so this is great to finally have even non boss mobs have some sort of meaning other than wasted space you just ROFL through, and yeah I read your post.

I disagree with everything posted here. I find the dungeons incredibly fun, because I love the challenge. I WANT a “trash” mob to one shot me if I make a mistake. It’s my fault I didn’t respond in time to avoid their attack. Killing them all makes the success that much sweeter.

This design actually reminds me of Everquest. Mobs dropped you into a corpse in an instant, if you messed up in that game. It’s been TOO LONG since mobs have made me go, “OH SHHHHHH—-” rather than, “Oh those darn pesky critters… teehee!” TY ANet. Seriously, ty.

Jaha.2840:

I disagree with everything posted here. I find the dungeons incredibly fun, because I love the challenge. I WANT a “trash” mob to one shot me if I make a mistake. It’s my fault I didn’t respond in time to avoid their attack. Killing them all makes the success that much sweeter.

This design actually reminds me of Everquest. Mobs dropped you into a corpse in an instant, if you messed up in that game. It’s been TOO LONG since mobs have made me go, “OH SHHHHHH—-” rather than, “Oh those darn pesky critters… teehee!” TY ANet. Seriously, ty.

I want hard opponents, i want a challenging dungeon and i want cool mechanics.
challenging dungeon in my opinion means the usage in all of those aspects, here is an example of a very simple mechanic that can work nicely, what if the enemies are tough a bit less then what we have now but thy are patrolling the area, there is more then one patrol and the party need to carefully plan the pulls, the party can fall back and decide where thy want the combat to be. Anet did something similar in Vloxen Excavations level 2 it was harsh but rewarding, when i first entered that dungeon i died countless times and didn’t cared about it at all, the only thing i wanted is to find the way to kill them.
I feel that killing an overpowered mob is not as fun as killing a hard and coordinated group of mobs, and the combat feels a lot more logical.
Im not looking for a hand holding easy dungeon where enemies die if i swing my sword. if you have GW1 try to play Vloxen Excavations HM and tell me if you don’t see the difference in the dungeon mentality.

Jaha.2840:

This design actually reminds me of Everquest. Mobs dropped you into a corpse in an instant, if you messed up in that game. .

Everquest dungeons were developed far better than GW2. Also they didn’t just “instant” kill you, they were designed to be killed by 1-2-3-4-5-6 players. Monk/shamans just as a duo could tear through dungeons and Mages/necro’s could solo quite effectively. Or you could use a team of 6 and chain pull an area.

Not even the raid zones did they have trash mobs that “one shot” you as most people had at the very least 4K+ hp at 50 going into the planes and the mobs hit for a max of what? 350? It is just they swarmed you and had unique abilities that MADE zones such as PoFear or PoHate hard. I think thats what people want. More ability less numbers.

If the game doesn’t have build VoIP, then it is not a tool that should be required in order to beat a dungeon. I have an expectation that the game will provide me will all that is necessary in order to be able to overcome any PvE content provided. The minimum level, for example promises that a challenge will not be impossible or otherwise awfully frustrating past a certain level. Before that point, I do not have all of the “tools” necessary to over-come the challenge. (Hit points, armor, elite skills, etc.)

BurningLobster.1953:

If the game doesn’t have build VoIP, then it is not a tool that should be required in order to beat a dungeon. I have an expectation that the game will provide me will all that is necessary in order to be able to overcome any PvE content provided. The minimum level, for example promises that a challenge will not be impossible or otherwise awfully frustrating past a certain level. Before that point, I do not have all of the “tools” necessary to over-come the challenge. (Hit points, armor, elite skills, etc.)

Good thing in game chat works just as well. I’ve yet to use anything like vent/mumble since the game was released and yet I can still clear dungeons with minimal problems. If you aren’t willing to communicate, even with chat, then go play a single player game where it’s not needed.

Fun != easy
Fun != hard
Fun != rewards at the end

I think Anet has a problem with the above 3 things.

lets use HoTW to explain this.

For those of you who havent done HoTW explorables you might be a little lost. But for those who have you’ll know exactly what I mean.

Butcher path
1. trash – this is actually fine. They dont have much hp as far as I could tell. A+ job. Make more trash take about this long to kill
2. Bosses – Not so good. The troll is a pushover (no one even went downed, and we werent dodging at all) he’s boring, he smacks you, you dodge or heal, you pew pew. The guy after that whose name I dont even remember because he was that boring didnt do anything either. You just dodged and pew pew.
3. Butcher himself: the fight starts with what appears to be an interesting mechanic. But falls on its face when you realize A. you dont need to break the totems and B. they come back prettykittenfast. The easiest way to beat the boss should not be to ignore his mechanic. Make the totems more effective, but INCREASE their respawn time. Then players will actually feel like fighting them.

plunderer path? I dont even remember what its called:
1. Trash – was mostly fine. The dudes with the hammers are a tad obnoxious though
2. bosses – Again with the boring. The first big one especially. He slows anyone who melees, so get kitten anyone who doesnt have a bow/staff! He barely hits anyone though. Same for his friend (who at least spawned adds) then youve got the guy with the quaggan pets who was almost interesting. But again it was just dodge and dodge and dodge.
3. Final boss – Boring. No one likes fighting underwater. Too much hp, no mechanic for the fight at all besides DPS him, dont stand next to him, and try not to get 1 shot by his dart attack that you cant really see coming. hardest part of this was trying not to fall asleep

Zealot:
trash – again fine
bosses – I dont even remember them. That’s how absolutely forgettable they are. They’re not hard, they’re not fun, they’re not memorable.
final boss – again with the kitteny underwater shenanigans. Too much hp. Adds have too much hp to bother dealing with, and the entire fight is swimming in circles for 20 minutes. Not fun at all.

HoTW is easy. Really easy. You can PuG every path in about an hour. It is however not fun at all. Even getting 60 tokens per run doesnt excite me.

The thing is this though. I dont want it to be “harder” I want it to be more interesting. Bosses need mechanics, or uniqueness. At the very least the end boss should be better than this. 2 underwater end bosses, whose differences are : this one spawns adds. And this one shoots you now and then.

Just plain bad.

similar thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/The-Dungeons-are-Not-Difficult-They-are-Mechanically-Flawed-Here-s-Why/page/2#post242519

this isn’t about ‘hard’ it’s about ‘tedious’

I don’t want 50 copies of the same generic humanoid oneshot spamming model.

@ANet, if you guys want suggestions on new boss mechanics, I know I personally, and probably a lot of the community, will be more than happy to give you ideas.

I agree with the OP I just don’t find the GW2 dungeons FUN.

It’s not about how hard they are, or how easy, or that they cost gold to run or that the rewards are not what I expect.

The main problem I find is that they just are not fun to play.

Let me give you an example of a fun dungeon instance: In the game Vindictus you have a mid level dungeon where you fight a boss mob called Irukul. That fight is awesome fun.

I think I played that instance about 60 to 100 times because it was great fun. My heart pounded, my hands were sweaty, and I chuckled and cried as I fought the boss. The action was just plain fun, fun, fun (even though I died about 20 times in a row the first time I played that dungeon instance).

It’s the heart pounding, adrenaline junky action and fun that is missing from the GW2 dungeons.

You know what I like?

I like how the “elitists” are accused of bullying and being selfish to keep their “top gear” to themselves.
Yet I come to a thread like this and see the very opposite, I see soemone who others are calling an “elitist” (who probably just knows how to play THIS game) even going so far as to offer to group with those having trouble for a run through dungeons so that he might show them, and is jsut JUMPED on and obliterated by the gang of “make it easier bawl” “This is broken!” and “Anet must bring the par down to suit me and those like me or this game will FAIL!”

Which is really the bully here? You all need to step back, take a breath and maybe try to learn the game instead of trying to kill it beneath your avalanche of constant crying.

Oh and Disconnected, you are not the only female here, and you are making the rest of us look bad by not even trying to “Learn to play”.

@Efaicia:

Please stop embarassing yourself, and me by implying we have anything in common besides gender. I’m sorry you can’t understand what I’m trying to say.

I only hope that one day they teach reading comprehension and logic in high school.

Efaicia.3672:

You know what I like?

I like how the “elitists” are accused of bullying and being selfish to keep their “top gear” to themselves.
Yet I come to a thread like this and see the very opposite, I see someone who others are calling an “elitist” (who probably just knows how to play THIS game) even going so far as to offer to group with those having trouble for a run through dungeons so that he might show them, and is jsut JUMPED on and obliterated by the gang of “make it easier bawl” “This is broken!” and “Anet must bring the par down to suit me and those like me or this game will FAIL!”

Which is really the bully here? You all need to step back, take a breath and maybe try to learn the game instead of trying to kill it beneath your avalanche of constant crying.

Oh and Disconnected, you are not the only female here, and you are making the rest of us look bad by not even trying to “Learn to play”.

The answer is simple: this trick of “I whine and whine, they will nerf” works perfectly on WoW. So obiouvsly they think here is the same. “Everything, now, in a couple hours, quit and change game, no elitism around me, i MUST be a ubercoolpro like others, even if i play 2 hours on weekend, QQ” This is the 2012 player’s attitude, and people on this forum whining and whining don’t want to accept different rules, and wear an armor/weapon just when you deserve it, and sometimes maybe just for a strict elite

Efaicia.3672:

You know what I like?

I like how the “elitists” are accused of bullying and being selfish to keep their “top gear” to themselves.
Yet I come to a thread like this and see the very opposite, I see soemone who others are calling an “elitist” (who probably just knows how to play THIS game) even going so far as to offer to group with those having trouble for a run through dungeons so that he might show them, and is jsut JUMPED on and obliterated by the gang of “make it easier bawl” “This is broken!” and “Anet must bring the par down to suit me and those like me or this game will FAIL!”

Which is really the bully here? You all need to step back, take a breath and maybe try to learn the game instead of trying to kill it beneath your avalanche of constant crying.

Oh and Disconnected, you are not the only female here, and you are making the rest of us look bad by not even trying to “Learn to play”.

The problem with the elitist is that thy read the name of the thread and assume the content, why should you care what people are writing, you already know.
Where have you seen people asking for an easy dungeon here? all of the people in this thread are asking for a hard and rewarding and FUN dungeon, the hard part shouldn’t only be from enemies with tons of HP and mass amount of damage but from other mechanics like patrols, ambushes falling rocks things that will keep the player on his/her toes. what if instead of 3 enemies with tons of HP give us more enemies with less HP and smaller damage output, the combined damage output will be the same. i don’t care if i my toon will die 1000 times in a good dungeon, and frankly i dont care about the reward, in GW1 guildies knew that if i get good item in will drop it on the floor and let the fastest catch it, and i mean stuff the halted my HoM progression. Maybe i need to learn more about the dungeon mechanics but thy are not FUN, i love the game i think it is a brilliant game but i want an alternative for today’s type of dungeons have fun play with this type of dungeons to your heart content but give me something that i will be able to enjoy too.
i want that part of the dungeons will be like the hard mode versions of Shards of Orr, Vloxen Excavations, Rragar’s Menagerie and Slavers’ Exile. Yes your right i’m looking that Anet will hold my hand and give me easy dungeons.
/rent
finish shards of orr with 6 people without super build and and without a smiter monk and tell me how easy it was.
/rent off

I swear people posting ‘you suck stop crying l2p don’t ask for nerfs’ are just as annoying as the people posting ‘omg i can’t just faceroll dps things plz nerf’

this thread is NEITHER. please re-read, and try to understand, before posting.

EDIT: Fine, I’ll even attempt to elaborate to aid your understanding.

To me, the more complex the fight is in TERMS OF MECHANICS, the more fun it is. CM ‘fixes’ were a perfect example. Instead of making more complex fights (even adding more traps, siege weapons, or hell even a jumping puzzle), they just threw more trash at it. I don’t find it fun, or challenging, I find it insulting.

I’ve never found any pve in any game particularly ‘hard’. But there’s a difference between complex mechanics and huge hp/dmg/cc numbers. I enjoy complex mechanics, I like figuring them out and executing them flawlessly (heroic Lich King, inferno Diabla, ME3 Insanity… examples).
I don’t like getting >9000 RNG’d in the face.

There have obviously been a lot of different threads, both knocking the dungeons and praising them. I personally like the dungeons a lot, though I come from a raiding background in other games and this content — as I see it — was very much aimed at “me” when it was produced.

The more that I think about it, the more that I think Anet made quite a mistake not calling the Explore modes of the dungeons 5-man raids. I think a big part of how some people have reacted to the difficulty comes from an expectation of what a “dungeon” is, in terms of content and difficulty, and that expectation (fairly enough) comes from what they are like in other games.

Coming from 10-20 man raids in both WoW and Rift, these dungeons are closer to the difficulty of 10-mans in Rift, although a fair amount easier. The difficulty of trash in GW2 dungeons is just standard stuff for most raids I’ve experienced, but if you came in expecting WoW or Rift style dungeon trash, you’d be in for a shock, and obviously many have been.

As for the point that some have made on them not being accessible to casuals — well I think that you have to think of the content as quite well presented for all different kinds of groups. WvWvW is intended for those who like open world style pvp. sPvP is meant for those who like match-style, more intense pvp. tPvP even a notch up from that… or sideways. Open world PvE is meant for both casuals and hardcore PvE players alike, and Explorables are for the Raiding crowd. In my opinion, they’ve done a great job at trying to produce content for a pretty wide range of tastes.

The only thing which is a little up in the air, in my mind, are the story-modes, which perhaps are a little bit over the top for the casual player — not sure. Some say they’re too difficult, some say not. I think if they made them too easy, they wouldn’t properly bridge some people to the Explorables, but I guess that’s a matter of opinion.

Hawken.7932:

The more that I think about it, the more that I think Anet made quite a mistake not calling the Explore modes of the dungeons 5-man raids. I think a big part of how some people have reacted to the difficulty comes from an expectation of what a “dungeon” is, in terms of content and difficulty, and that expectation (fairly enough) comes from what they are like in other games.

you could call them hardcore nightmare 5-man raids or whatever. wouldn’t change anything because it’s not about difficulty.

if this would be 10/20 man raiddungeons they would be equally not fun for a lot of people.

Seriously?

Are there really that many people that do not know how to comprehend what they read in the world these days?

I think Rhinala got it right.

People see the title of this thread and rush in ready to assume they know what everything is all about.

To those who have actually read what I was saying, and actually get it “Thank You” for your comments.

To those who still don’t get it. Stop pretending and assuming you do, pull your head out of backside, and go back to posting about how the only concern with your dungeons you enjoy so much are that they are to easy.

Maybe I should have stated at the top that my first post wasn’t reading content for those who lack comprehension skills. Oh, wait! It wouldn’t matter, because people that don’t have it would still assume they did and post.

Yes I am a bit ticked off.

Some people on this forum do have reading comprehension skills as they did not have a hard time understanding that I am not complaining about how hard or easy the dungeons are.

Why then for those who don’t get that is it so hard? Are your egos really that over inflated?

Let me spell this out one more time for the “assumption bunch” here. I will even use BIG LETTERS so that you don’t miss anything here and its easier to read.

I DO NOT LIKE THE DUNGEONS.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS DIFFICULTY.

THEY ARE NOT WHAT APPEARED TO BE HINTED AT SINCE 2007.

THEY ARE NOT FUN.

I COULD CARE LESS IF A MOB IS HARD.

IF YOU HAVE NEVER PLAYED GW1 THIS POST IS BEYOND YOUR UNDERSTANDING

ME SAYING THEY ARE NOT FUN IS NOT ME SAYING THEY ARE NOT EASY

EVEN IF THEY WERE EASY THEY WOULD STILL BE NO FUN

EVEN IF THEY WERE HARDER THEY WOULD STILL BE NO FUN

NOT ALL OF US SEE FUN AS HAVING ONLY TO DO WITH THE MOB

I am not the only one here that just expected something much different after Anet’s release of EotN. Their so called “bridge” to GW2.

All of their little tidbit media releases about how while designing the next GW1 campaign they just had so many ideas that they realized it was time to shelf GW1 and begin on GW2.

How supposedly EotN was made of scraps of that last shelved campaign and it contained the ideas going forward such as the EotN dungeons.

Five years later everythign about the game has actually been fun, new, etc.

Except the dungeons. There is nothing new about the idea or concept behind them at all, and after seeing what Anet has done over the years in GW1 be it missions, dungeons, Beyond Content, etc leading up to this games release. Its a slap in the face.

How do you go from this brain storming session leading you to go “we just need to do GW2” to implementing pieces of those ideas over the years into GW1 as hints and teasers to this pile of a steaming trash heap.

Even “War in Kryta” content was awesome. It had a lot of parts that we just were not prepared for and had to keep stepping back and tweaking till we got it just right (and sometimes even subpar, but did it). A lot of this was that we had returned to the game on new accounts this spring to do HoM stuff and prepare for GW2 so we just did not have the right elites or gear, but we would keep stepping back and rethinking what we needed (if we didn’t have say the right elite we would go find it) till we nailed it.

HARD MODE Slavers Exile was brought up. OMG. That right there. That is just one example of the so called “bridge” and “teaser” that was EotN that had kept me waiting for GW1. It had paths to do before you could even enter the final bosses level. It had the feeling of entering someones outpost, base, whatever and actually being alive around every corner. Being able to pull groups while watching your back from random group/s sneaking up on you, because they actually WALKED AROUND the dungeon.

I don’t think many of us envisioned all of that to equal Anet making MINI RAIDS (as some of you that did not get the content of this post have called them) as their new awesome view of dungeon content.

Now don’t get me wrong. I have done my share of raids, and I have no problem dying while learning the concept or design if it was actually FUN to do, but this implementation?

Its not new, and to be honest compared to MMO’s gone before them. Its not even fun or good.

If they want to have dungeon raids on the small scale then they need to go back to the drawing board, because when I walk into someones fortress, home, etc. I don’t expect that all of their defenses would have went out for “Afternoon Tea and Crumpets” just so I could “Tralala” through their place, and easily get to their leader.

I’ve spent far more money on far worse games and just moved on after the fun stopped, and to be honest this game will be no different.

Sorry, all I can say is if those here still do not get it learn to not just read, but also comprehend.

I agree with the op and still we have lot of people asking for changes to the dungeons, and Anet has yet to comment on anything.

to me they don’t care about there community if they can’t even tell us if this is the way dungeons are meant to be or are they going to go back and fix the mechanics of the dungeons.

Anet had said that they wouldnt have been able to acomplish what they have done without us, you have many people fustrated and we all deserve Answers .

I don’t want the dungeons watered down etc but there needs to be a happy medium.

So why not shed some light on the situation anet rather then forgetting your community that supported you through the years..

I’ve done exactly one dungeon run (AC Explore Path 2) with my guild, who have been running instances for some time now. I was geared properly, I was traited properly, I understood my role, and I understood the boss fights…

It was by far the least enjoyable experience I have EVER had in an MMO. Period. I was absolutely miserable from start to finish. I thought that not having a trinity would be cool, and it is indeed very awesome for world exploration, but beyond that, the concept falls flat on its face.

I’m not going to make a list of what I dislike. Its all already been said. I don’t know exactly how many hours I’ve been playing GW2, but I do know that the past 1.5 hours spent in AC have been by far the worst. So bad it honestly makes me miss WoW, and I haven’t played WoW in over 2 years.

I’ve for the time resolved myself to the simple fact that I’m never going to set foot in another dungeon ever again. I’m just completely disgusted by the prospect and I refuse to take part. It makes me sad, because this is something I wanted to work, but it just plain doesn’t.

@Michael Fejervary: okay, fair enough Michael. You don’t find the dungeons fun, but many, many people DO find them fun. Fun is a subjective experience. I believe the dungeons are great fun.

I’ve run dungeons in Everquest, Guild Wars 1, WoW, Age of Conan, Rift, Swtor, and now Guild Wars 2. I’ve raided in most of those games as well, from an entry level up to more hardcore difficulties. After all of that, I find Guild Wars 2 dungeons to be fun and challenging, with the interesting twist of traps and slightly more exploration. They’re great.

So, perhaps I lack the mental faculty to understand why you don’t like them, but I respect the fact that you don’t. Still, we are writing on a public forum and I reserve the right to disagree with your opinion and express my own.

@Hawken:

There are a lot of things that are subjective. Claiming that many, many, many people that like them is subjective. Not to say there is not truth to that, but its subjective all the same just as claiming that many, many, many people do not like them.

See?

You can disagree with me all you want. I have no issue with that, because as I stated at the start of the thread I was not seeking approval from anyone or side here.

I also stated that this was MY VIEW and MY OPINION of the dungeons.

The one thing I did not do was go on to make subjective claims for what others here or in game may or may not think of the game dungeons in their current state.

Public Forum? Yeah, lets not touch on that here outside of saying that what you have here are the rights that Anet allows you to have on thier forum, but all that aside sure you are by all means allowed to disagree with me and my opinion.

I don’t have an issue with that, but what you guys don’t get is that “I don’t care”, because again this thread was not posted to seek approval or disapproval of the playerbase.

I am but one customer in the end right? If Anet loses me “BIG Whoop” right? After all “many, many, people DO find them fun” as you stated so whats one customer.

Do you really think I am alone?

The answer is “No!” I am not. At least a handful of people here have stated (while staying on topic I should point out) that they also just did not find them fun.

This isn’t even considering all the other players here that are not liking the dungeons at all for whatever reason it may be. Which I am not going into, because this thread was not about those things.

So yeah I can be subjective as well and point out that “many, many people DO NOT find them fun”.

It is really not that hard to wrap your head around.

I am but “One” customer that they can lose potential profit from, but as “One” I can become many, and in this case “One” becomes “Four” right off the back just from my household alone.

Now how many more out there that you could consider “One” play with their kids, spouse, friends, family members?

How many of them will move together? (hint: its more than you think)

So as you can see it does not take long for “One” to add up, and when “One” adds up so does that loss of profit to a company. A bunch of “Ones” over time gets followed with a whole lot of “Zeros”.

I bought this game expecting what they have talked about since 2007, be it directly, through press releases to gaming media, or interviews, and I just don’t feel that they delivered on it when it comes to the dungeons.

However, with that said I never once stated that how I felt was how everyone else felt or should feel. I made that very clear at the start of the thread.

It was and has been only about my view and opinion with dungeons in this game, and I am not sorry for that.

I hate too say it but I wish Anet should buy a month of wow and go back and play its dungeons and raids and just snag some mechanic ideas, WoW has some problems but dungeon mechanics are not one

wookie slayer.4259:

I hate too say it but I wish Anet should buy a month of wow and go back and play its dungeons and raids and just snag some mechanic ideas, WoW has some problems but dungeon mechanics are not one

Id prefer they’d play tsw a bit, because it accomplishes what anet still tries to. with much less snafu I might add.

All thy need to do is to roll back to their earlier game and use some of its dungeon mechanics, the dungeons in GW1 ware brilliant, the boss mechanics ware astounding, look at the bosses from the dungeons that i posted in a earlier post, if you have the game try to play with it, don’t use super build from the internet.
GW1 allowed the player to bypass enemies that thy never wanted to attack pull in a smart way, snipe, body blocking near corner ware so much fun, but if one party member went placed himself in the wrong location all of the tactic was ruined. GW1 allowed the player to think adapt and decide how he want to fight, something that i haven’t seen in GW2 again i haven’t been in too many dungeons.
In my opinion regarding dungeons, Anet took the multilevel dungeons that ware presented in GW1 spited them and named the levels as branches.
ive been in catacombs story once and i will never go back there, i went to the manor story twice it was a meh experience.
If any of you don’t agree with me i will agree to disagree with you.

Gray.9650:

wookie slayer.4259:

I hate too say it but I wish Anet should buy a month of wow and go back and play its dungeons and raids and just snag some mechanic ideas, WoW has some problems but dungeon mechanics are not one

Id prefer they’d play tsw a bit, because it accomplishes what anet still tries to. with much less snafu I might add.

Not really. TSW still relies on the trinity, which is everything ANet was trying to get away from. TSW dungeons also had some pretty serious design flaws in their boss encounters. Safety dance is cool every once in awhile, but when every fight in every dungeon is some version of safety dance, often to an extent that melee becomes largely worthless, you have a problem.

That all said, I did enjoy TSW dungeons more. Better stories, better atmosphere, better rewards, better boss encounters (excluding the difficulty of being melee), and an overall more enjoyable experience. The Native American dream dungeon is the coolest dungeon I’ve been in since Blackrock Depths.

’’Dungeons? More often than not these will cost you money and as you can see, rarely work correctly.

Look at the dungeons. Most are very long (ensuring deaths and repair bills) or short but have at least one encounter that includes mandatory death (repair bills)

All of this to fool players into thinking “whoa, yeah those items have the same stats as what i already have but..they indicate i’m leet.”

Now that players are doing these dungeons and because these dungeons are really the absolute end of PvE as it currently stands, Anet is forced to drag this experience out as long as possible to cover the hole that there isn’t an endgame. Having everything you want a week after hitting max level is..well, bad for business.

Making these tokens Account bound= “Hey ,we know you’ve gotten all you wanted, now try a new profession and have them in 80 exotics the second they hit 80” Fun eh?

Just another attempt at covering the endgame problem- there really isn’t one.’’

Couldn’t quote normally.

I agree with this. I reached 80 in a week and after another week I had everything that I wanted. Several sets, all gear exotic, 100% world, personal story done, all the skins/dyes I wanted. Done.

Dungeons are not fun and are extremely useless as they reward me absolutely nothing.
They need a reward, atm they reward nothing. They need big items with sick skins, gold, dyes, pets whatever. Some boss mechanics need to be changed, because dieing 67 times during 1 boss fight is not fun and it’s rather kitten

Neither does WvW or events/dragon kills whatever give me any sort of reward. I can not progress any further in this game. It’s literally impossible. Game completed.
I do not care about legendary weapons as they the one I can use actually looks REALLY bad.

Played so many big name MMORPG’s and not one of them was as bad as GW2 endgame. Not even close. Usually I play a game for 6+ months and still not even near to what I want, still got so much to do etc. I usually quit because a new game is coming out. GW2 however I have basically quit already, this long waited game didn’t even last for a month for me, and I know there’s many others who feel like this.

They said they were not going to make a grind based game, yet they make dungeons to please people who enjoy korean grind mmos. It just doesn’t make sense when they had the perfect formula for dungeons in GW1.

What I find even more ridiculous is that the designer for dungeon here is trying to fix dungeons by increasing the rewards. Let me ask you: shouldn’t playing the dungeons be a reward itself? you know, reward you with FUN. That is the main lacking component in GW2’s dungeon. Unless you enjoy grinding for ‘exclusive’ gear obviously. But what are you enjoying then? The elitism or the actual dungeon?

The perfect example for a good dungeon design is Urgoz Warren. It was very long, took some very good teamwork, a huge veriety in enemies and subquests, really enjoyable boss fight. Still, the rewards were pretty bad. There was only one good drop and the rest of the rewards got you like 5k – 10k tops for a two hour run. But that didn’t matter, because it was FUN!

There should be community ‘design the best dungeon’ contests, with winner’s ideas gettinkittenlemented into new instances.

edit: why is ‘imp-lemented’ being filtered?? oO
also, i meant in terms of mechanics only. actual ‘tuning’ can be done by ANet (please not whoever ‘fixed’ CM SM though, kthx)

Apakal.5718:

Gray.9650:

wookie slayer.4259:

I hate too say it but I wish Anet should buy a month of wow and go back and play its dungeons and raids and just snag some mechanic ideas, WoW has some problems but dungeon mechanics are not one

Id prefer they’d play tsw a bit, because it accomplishes what anet still tries to. with much less snafu I might add.

Not really. TSW still relies on the trinity, which is everything ANet was trying to get away from. TSW dungeons also had some pretty serious design flaws in their boss encounters. Safety dance is cool every once in awhile, but when every fight in every dungeon is some version of safety dance, often to an extent that melee becomes largely worthless, you have a problem.

That all said, I did enjoy TSW dungeons more. Better stories, better atmosphere, better rewards, better boss encounters (excluding the difficulty of being melee), and an overall more enjoyable experience. The Native American dream dungeon is the coolest dungeon I’ve been in since Blackrock Depths.

I was mainly talking about the dungeons, not trinity (and somehow even WITH the trinity it still works better. I can change roles everywhere, but not in gw2. that’s just one example). you still have the dodge, the limited skillset etc. and the trinity is still present in gw2, you still need people go soaking damage and provide heals/support. just because there is no fixed aggro and bar watching as healer doesn’t mean you can play however you want – and that’s what most players think when they hear “no trinity”

sure, in the end fun is relative, but safety dance is in a lot of gw2 dungeons too. but here it’s either bad/not telegraphed, with circles that hide in geometry, obnoxious high-hp trash/bosses that kill any kind of paceing and tedious oneshot mechanics (sure makes it harder, but not more challenging).

as a mainly melee player, I could add a lot more in melee in tsw than I could in gw2, even with running around.

but yeah, the the darkness war boss still gives me nightmares (so many wipes). the battle mage makes up for it tho. so does most of the facility (after most bugs were fixed).