Guild Wars 2

I’m going to make this very brief.

When I first heard about dungeons, I swear hearing that when you completed an explorable dungeon run, you would get A TOKEN that could be exchanged for dungeon armor. This was because dungeons were going to be VERY DIFFICULT. Right now, the current system would never support this. Everyone would have the dungeon armor. Here’s how I think they need to overhaul the dungeon system for a real sense of satisfaction. These would be changes to the explorable dungeon modes.

• Disable armor repair costs for dungeons.
• Enable wipes to reset dungeon, or to nearest waypoint.
• Ramp up difficulty on bosses to an extreme, minor adjustments to trash mobs (They’re already tough enough).
• Boss difficulty increased with abilities, not straight damage/health buff. Make the bosses more dangerous and lethal because they are smarter, not cheaper.
• If players beat an explorable dungeon mode, they are granted a token in exchange for one piece of dungeon armor.
• Players are rewarded based on progress every time they wipe. This pales in comparison to dungeon rewards, but players are granted some kind of incentive to keep playing.

What this does is create a system where dungeons are not supposed to be farmed or cleared repeatedly, but are a significant and great challenge. The emphasis is not put on grinding it, but on beating it and being able to repeat the process maybe 1 or 2 times in the future to totally complete the set.

This might sound insane, but think about how the new system works. Each attempt is rewarded, so people will keep trying. With emphasis on very powerful bosses, the challenge comes down to working as a group and overcoming an actual challenge to gain your reward. And you are provided with a significant reward for doing so in terms of a piece of the dungeon armor.

I think this really goes back to ANet’s manifesto. They wanted the game to be challenging, and not a grind. Right now, dungeon armor is a grind. It’s a huge grind, and we all know it. But there are ways to get around this without compromising the rewards and their rarity. Ramp up the difficulty, give the player a reason to keep trying, and when the player finally conquers the challenge, they are substantially and fairly rewarded for their hard work.

I agree with this 100%.

Thumbs up.

Wow, an ArenaNet response first thing. Nice. =)

Edit: Thanks Robert, sounds great. Keep up the good work!

If the system is broken, it should be removed until it is fixed

While i do agree that the dungeons rewards needs tweaking what you are suggesting is making it too easy. People would be done with all armor and weapons very fast if 1 run provided a piece. Ramping up the difficulty would be meaningless since strategies to take monsters down would show up on the internet. Then, everyone would be here whining there is nothing else to do anymore. And if Anet exaggerate we might end up with bosses ala FF11, with the devs actually having to teach people how to beat them.

They just need to bump a bit the money and the tokens, like 40 tokens or so. Or give bonus to people that complete all paths in one day. Let’s say if you complete all paths of a dungeon, you win 50 tokens and more money on top of the usual 20~30 per run. This would actually encourage people to do other paths instead of the easiest and faster.

And also for the love of god, bump the loot % chance of chests, i did dozens of several runs and have never got a exotic weapon. It’s always a blue and white fest. I’m not asking for a exotic every run but as right now, the chances seems less than 2%.

Nebilim, I hear what you’re saying, but I’m not sure it would be as easy as you say. Look on the Dungeon forums. There’s a ton of threads saying “X is impossible” or “Y is impossible”, and this is without any buffs. If they made it even harder than it is now, while it would be easier for the top % of players, it would be even more difficult for most of the players, but obtainable with enough skill, rather than with enough time.

I’d much rather try and try and try again against a difficult dungeon, only to finally succeed once for my big reward, then win and win and win repeatedly for little itty bits of reward at a time (AKA grind).

If people beat the dungeon then they can move on to other dungeons and other things.

With spvp and wvwvw in it’s state, many players have just stopped playing because they don’t want to climb mount farmdungeon for weeks.

Those people are complaining about bosses being impossible is because no strategy was discovered/they don’t know/didn’t specced their classes or pugged every single of their runs.

Believe me, people always find a way. I played Monster Hunter Frontier and no matter how hard Capcom made the bosses, people always discovered some cheap strategy to beat them. Crazy stuff like taking advantage of a specific terrain or monster mechanic, to even calculate the amount of damage it takes to stunlock it.

As example for Guild wars, you can actually make Kholer and the troll to fight each other to death on AC, then you can easily kill the survivor.

Although, I would agree with a 1 piece per run if dungeons were 5 times larger and took hours to complete it. Maybe the sizer of a zone full of dynamic events and what not.

I do agree giving away a piece of armor each clear of a path would be a bit too much.

I would say buff the token rewards on a clear for sure, or remove all token rewards from boss chests completely and replace with rare drops, and only have token rewards 50+ tokens on clear.

Another thing that can be done is have path specific rewards, that can only be gotten from each doing a particular path, and maybe another reward or bonus from completing all 3 paths daily.

Another thing to keep in mind is if every path is viably rewarding, even though the decision to make getting armors much easier, what can and should happen is more people do them, collecting armors and making multiple sets. So even though I have totally completed an entire set I will still have the yearning to do another or get more.

Which is not a bad thing either as it will be way better than having a smaller population doing the content.

Note not talking about making the dungeons easier but just about the reward system in place. I think the challenge is pretty nice at the moment.

Also the above poster did indeed nail it, people will always try to find the easiest way, if something is too hard people will find a way round it, that is not meant to be.

If the content is challenging and fun, and not painfully difficult there would not be an issue either.

Here is what I know about GW2 dungeons. 40-50 plus people standing around LFGing dungeons 2 days ago. Today 3-4 people afking in front of dungeons and in other areas, the waypoints are constantly contested due to a lack of players.

All AAA MMOS have PTRs for a reason. Usually its so they don’t commit PVE or PVP suicide days before another Triple A MMO launches an expansion.

That comment really doesn’t say much about the dungeons. . .

Also what is PTR?

Here is what I know about GW2 dungeons. 40-50 plus people standing around LFGing dungeons 2 days ago. Today 3-4 people afking in front of dungeons and in other areas, the waypoints are constantly contested due to a lack of players.
All AAA MMOS have PTRs for a reason. Usually its so they don’t commit PVE or PVP suicide days before another Triple A MMO launches an expansion.

I don’t think you get it. Colin made clear that dungeons are for the elite of the elite, the creme of the la creme. It is by no means to be a fast or easy task that any random guy can complete it.

I’m very glad Anet has their mind set that they do not intend to make dungeons easier to the broader crowd. Casuals have the entire overworld just for them.

I think its funny how people keep talking about WoW, there is not a thing in this world that could ever get me to play that crap again. I agree there are a lot of things that need to be fixed but Gw2 on its worst day is still better than WoW on its best day by a huge margin.

The thing is all content should be equally viable for all players, sorry to say.

Its really great to hear developer responses so quickly now.

Here is my problem with new system rewards.

Twilight Arbor run;
1. 19 silver 50 copper
2. 6 silver

They are different parts of explore. Other guild friend and party members get 26 silver all the time when they finish dungeon. Even if they finish many times for one day. So this is really strange. :S

Nebilim.5127:

Here is what I know about GW2 dungeons. 40-50 plus people standing around LFGing dungeons 2 days ago. Today 3-4 people afking in front of dungeons and in other areas, the waypoints are constantly contested due to a lack of players.
All AAA MMOS have PTRs for a reason. Usually its so they don’t commit PVE or PVP suicide days before another Triple A MMO launches an expansion.

I don’t think you get it. Colin made clear that dungeons are for the elite of the elite, the creme of the la creme. It is by no means to be a fast or easy task that any random guy can complete it.

I’m very glad Anet has their mind set that they do not intend to make dungeons easier to the broader crowd. Casuals have the entire overworld just for them.

Well that gives them a like 2-3 weeks max if they take their time.

I seriously doubt that Anet is stupid enough to create content that not everyone is capable of doing, they are trying to change the mmo scene not be like every other company out there.

@ Takiwaki PTR/PTS Public Test Realm/Public Test Server. Welcome to MMOs

@Nebilim You’ve missed the point. People WERE running the dungeons, now they arent and its not because of difficulty. I have yet to see an actual challenge in this game.

@Kromica Opinions shouldn’t be confused with Facts.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

we’re very aware that our reward system is not up to par for dungeons. It is something we are actively working on right now, to try and find a solution for. I’m not going to talk about what our plans are because I don’t want us to be trapped in promises, but I will say this: We know, and are actively working on updating the system.

Robert -

Any chance on getting word about Story Mode dungeons? As someone enjoying the game dearly minus the SM experience (see my other post on these forums “Story Mode Dungeon Feedback”) – I have been watching like a hawk for some word from you fine people just mentioning that story mode is being looked at.

So far all the feedback I can find from ANet is about explorable mode or loot / token distribution.

=/

Nebilim.5127:

Here is what I know about GW2 dungeons. 40-50 plus people standing around LFGing dungeons 2 days ago. Today 3-4 people afking in front of dungeons and in other areas, the waypoints are constantly contested due to a lack of players.
All AAA MMOS have PTRs for a reason. Usually its so they don’t commit PVE or PVP suicide days before another Triple A MMO launches an expansion.

I don’t think you get it. Colin made clear that dungeons are for the elite of the elite, the creme of the la creme. It is by no means to be a fast or easy task that any random guy can complete it.

I’m very glad Anet has their mind set that they do not intend to make dungeons easier to the broader crowd. Casuals have the entire overworld just for them.

And what exactly are the Casuals meant to do once they have finished with the ‘entire overworld’ content as you put it? Dungeons, just like every other facet of the game, should be available to ALL players, not just a select few otherwise it goes against ANET’s philosophy. Explorable Dungeons will just end up being the ‘raids’ of GW2 that only a small percentage of players ever see.

Sorry but not every mmo uses acronyms for public test servers lol, yea ive been playing MMOs for a very very long time, so no its not my first. Assumptions are bad, remember that

This isn’t a personal attack, more of a fact-finding mission. Which Triple A MMO doesn’t refer to their testing servers as PTR/PTS-PT(whatever). I guess it was a leap for me to assume veteran MMO players wouldn’t piece together the “Public Test” part of the acronym as in context of the sentence.

@Mortuary

They could…i don’t know? Get good at game and do the harder dungeons? Find a dungeon guild and learn the aspect of it. That’s something that they can strive for and stretch their end game. Or do you really expect devs to hand hold you and give everything on a silver platter all the way? Yeah lets do that, let’s give a legendary to everyone right off the bat.

Speaking from a developer standpoint, I can honestly say that if I had worked my rear off creating a dungeon and then that dungeon wasn’t experienced by as many people as possible…I would not be happy. Yes, we the players want a challenge – but we want those challenges to be rewarding. I agree with a lot of other posts regarding this topic that dungeons need to be more intellectually challenging rather than a bajillion hp boss or group of mobs that take forever and a week to kill.

Like the final boss in story mode Sorrow’s Embrace – suffice to say it was a spur of the moment pug and none of us had researched any of the fights so when we ran up on the last boss we had to figure out why it nuked all of us into oblivion We were all pretty much at level and none of us were exceptionally geared so it was still a challenge, but a doable challenge. I don’t mind learning new strategies, in fact figuring out tactics and then following through to completion is why I play these types of games.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

we’re very aware that our reward system is not up to par for dungeons. It is something we are actively working on right now, to try and find a solution for. I’m not going to talk about what our plans are because I don’t want us to be trapped in promises, but I will say this: We know, and are actively working on updating the system.

The system was perfectly fine pre-patch 9/17/2012….you guys screwed up big time with the current patch and you’ve been told non-stop since the change to revert it back to the way it was as NO ONE was complaining about it.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

we’re very aware that our reward system is not up to par for dungeons. It is something we are actively working on right now, to try and find a solution for. I’m not going to talk about what our plans are because I don’t want us to be trapped in promises, but I will say this: We know, and are actively working on updating the system.

I hope you guys allow us to exchange tokens, currently I want the Arah set, my friend wants the Crucible set and my other friend wants the Citadel of Flame, and that means that if we want to get our sets we’ll have to run PUGs instead of playing together! A 2:1 trade rate would be awesome already!

Crucifer.2831:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

we’re very aware that our reward system is not up to par for dungeons. It is something we are actively working on right now, to try and find a solution for. I’m not going to talk about what our plans are because I don’t want us to be trapped in promises, but I will say this: We know, and are actively working on updating the system.

The system was perfectly fine pre-patch 9/17/2012….you guys screwed up big time with the current patch and you’ve been told non-stop since the change to revert it back to the way it was as NO ONE was complaining about it.

No, the system was exploitable and slowly ruining the in-game econonmy pre-patch. You could run a few dungeons in less than 15 minutes and get tons of rewards. The system was not fine, and your lack of understanding on this point is hard to fathom.

If you can speedrun dungeons, the system is not working. The only reason people are calling for a revert is because the DRs system is currently BUGGED and not performing as expected or intended.

Get informed before you mouth off.

Time Glitch.2460:

Crucifer.2831:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

we’re very aware that our reward system is not up to par for dungeons. It is something we are actively working on right now, to try and find a solution for. I’m not going to talk about what our plans are because I don’t want us to be trapped in promises, but I will say this: We know, and are actively working on updating the system.

The system was perfectly fine pre-patch 9/17/2012….you guys screwed up big time with the current patch and you’ve been told non-stop since the change to revert it back to the way it was as NO ONE was complaining about it.

No, the system was exploitable and slowly ruining the in-game econonmy pre-patch. You could run a few dungeons in less than 15 minutes and get tons of rewards. The system was not fine, and your lack of understanding on this point is hard to fathom.

If you can speedrun dungeons, the system is not working. The only reason people are calling for a revert is because the DRs system is currently BUGGED and not performing as expected or intended.

Get informed before you mouth off.

As I have said, triple the difficulty make it harder and harder and harder until you’re tired of updating it, just don’t tell me that if i’m finishing 2 dungeons in less than an hour, i’m doing it wrong and need to slow it down. (current policy regardless of path change).

Evil.9061:

@ Takiwaki PTR/PTS Public Test Realm/Public Test Server. Welcome to MMOs

@Nebilim You’ve missed the point. People WERE running the dungeons, now they arent and its not because of difficulty. I have yet to see an actual challenge in this game.

@Kromica Opinions shouldn’t be confused with Facts.

I don’t know where you pull your ‘facts’ from, but yes people very much do still do dungeons. Please don’t try to exaggerate the issue.

Take a look at my suggestion in post https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Token-system-redesign-in-dungeons

Regards,

Feday.

Feday.4371:

Take a look at my suggestion in post https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Token-system-redesign-in-dungeons

Regards,

Feday.

Or even easier. A lock out on each path (20hours) with a universal currency.

24 runs.

Poof, everyone running every dungeon and every path. Simple stuff-

I believe our friend OP is asking for dungeons to become a 5 man raid ala wow thing, which imo is great ( They did that in WAR) and it worked pretty nice, except the fact that the mechanics were broken and some of them were way too easy,

BUT i would highly suggest to do that for NEW dungeons ( plus the items should not have stats they should be just cosmetic, because if a new player starts, and friends get him through this new dungeon he will most propably get geared in 1 day) , that thing would attract a lot of pvers to the game as well, and in the current dungeons to just add what another fellow said, add a 50 bonus token for completing all 3 paths.

Please do a +1 if you agree, because i believe this would fix a very good amount of problems people have, both content for HC pvers AND grinding for gear for the rest of the people.

Creating a single “raid” (5man)dungeon every 3-4 months wouldnt be way too hard for arenanet imo. AND that would attract a hell a lot of people. The game HAS the mechanics. and imo it should use it. ALL for the SHAKE OF LOOKS

Evil.9061:

Feday.4371:

Take a look at my suggestion in post https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Token-system-redesign-in-dungeons

Regards,

Feday.

Or even easier. A lock out on each path (20hours) with a universal currency.

24 runs.

Poof, everyone running every dungeon and every path. Simple stuff-

problem with locking out each path is it becomes like daily dungeon/LFR in WoW prime time/earily in the day you’ll get the most people LFG but as the day goes on the groups become fewer and their player quality drops off.

Nebilim.5127:

@Mortuary

They could…i don’t know? Get good at game and do the harder dungeons? Find a dungeon guild and learn the aspect of it. That’s something that they can strive for and stretch their end game. Or do you really expect devs to hand hold you and give everything on a silver platter all the way? Yeah lets do that, let’s give a legendary to everyone right off the bat.

That’s the catch 22 isn’t it. I am a casual player and I have completed nearly all the Explorable dungeons I have attempted with both guildies and pugs so I aren’t by any means saying make them easy, I enjoy the difficultly as they are (not the bugs or exploits) and want to feel I have achieved something by completing a dungeon path, I have had my hand held by Blizzard for a number of years and don’t want the same thing from Anet. How many casual average joe players wouldn’t have bought the game if they had known that the majority of the Dungeon content wouldn’t be available to them?

Why not just make it so that each of the 5 paths in a dungeon gives a one-time reward at completion equal to 1/5th of the token costs of the full armor set? Add in making the dungeons more difficult, and it would be challenging and NOT a grind to get dungeon armor, and you’d never have to repeat content. This would also allow characters to get a little bit of gear on the easier paths to prepare them to finish the harder paths.

Agree! Nice post

@Rholo- because there are only 3 explorable paths.

I think most of us here agree that dungeons shouldn’t be a cake walk but don’t block out other players because they aren’t top tier players. I play with friends in a guild who aren’t that skilled and when I do dungeons with them its a big challenge.

I think another possible fix would be change the amount of tokens per path and have each path be set “difficulty”.

An example would be AC Explorable(I forgot my NPC names) but Charr is your easy wing(I’m using the term easy in the sense its easier than the other two. it should not be a cake walk.) Asuran is your medium difficulty and the human is your hardest. Easy-30 first clear/15 2nd+, Medium- 40 first clear/20 2nd+, Hard 50 first clear./25 2nd+.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

we’re very aware that our reward system is not up to par for dungeons. It is something we are actively working on right now, to try and find a solution for. I’m not going to talk about what our plans are because I don’t want us to be trapped in promises, but I will say this: We know, and are actively working on updating the system.

I’d like to also throw in my vote for MUCH cheaper dungeon armor skins.

Back before the game came out there was a blog post saying we would get one piece of armor skin per run, which meshed perfectly with the anti-grind philosophy. When I found out what the final price of the gear was I couldn’t believe it. It’s astronomical. And, worst of all it doesn’t work as an “optional grind” for those who like grinding, because most of them want STATS. Grind & Cosmetics serve 2 very different groups of people. I’d rather have some super rare + 2% gear out there for the insane gear treadmill people & have the cosmetics be 1 piece per run.

The current system seems backwards…. And as someone who loves cosmetics, I pretty much plan not to get any dungeon gear since the grind seems worse than WoW’s.

I haven’t done any dungeon content yet post-beta, so take this with a few grains of salt.

I think part of the problem is the reward schedule. The primary extrinsic reward for running dungeons is the armor set. Each piece of armor is only available after a relatively large number of runs. There is only one reward schedule, it is fixed, and it is too long. I haven’t done any dungeons yet partly because it did not seem like the best time vs reward.

Most games focus on a single method of rewarding players for doing content, such as a currency (tokens that you trade for armor), random gear drops per kill, random gear drops per milestone (a treasure chest for reaching at a certain point or performing a task), etc. It is probably better to have multiple overlapping extrinsic rewards on different schedules for the same content.

It might improve motivation to include a chance of the primary reward in each run as well as a guaranteed reward over time with the alternate currency. For instance, add a low chance to get a piece of the dungeon armor or another exotic in every run. Usually players will get something of lesser value. The important thing is that there is a chance to get the primary reward each run. You could make this chance available only once per day per dungeon to encourage variety or only available after a full clear to discourage running past most of the content. Hopefully, if the chance is low, it won’t negatively affect the endgame economy.

You could also convert the current token system to a somewhat more random schedule that encourages variety by adding “daily achievements” for completing dungeon content in a certain way. Each bonus completed per day would give additional tokens for that run.

Of course, the best way to keep players doing content is to make the intrinsic rewards very high (and I think Guild Wars 2 has generally done a better job here than any MMO so far), but intrinsic rewards are difficult to intentionally design.

YaHiKoDrG.3467:

@Rholo- because there are only 3 explorable paths.

I think most of us here agree that dungeons shouldn’t be a cake walk but don’t block out other players because they aren’t top tier players. I play with friends in a guild who aren’t that skilled and when I do dungeons with them its a big challenge.

I think another possible fix would be change the amount of tokens per path and have each path be set “difficulty”.

An example would be AC Explorable(I forgot my NPC names) but Charr is your easy wing(I’m using the term easy in the sense its easier than the other two. it should not be a cake walk.) Asuran is your medium difficulty and the human is your hardest. Easy-30 first clear/15 2nd+, Medium- 40 first clear/20 2nd+, Hard 50 first clear./25 2nd+.

This would solve some of the problems for sure.

They need to find that balance in between “Grind” and just handing over a full set of exotic armor (being end-game gear). If they just hand it over then people are REALLY going to complain that its too easy and there is no end-game content and blah blah blah. I don’t mind working really hard for end-game gear.

Adzy.8370:

They need to find that balance in between “Grind” and just handing over a full set of exotic armor (being end-game gear). If they just hand it over then people are REALLY going to complain that its too easy and there is no end-game content and blah blah blah. I don’t mind working really hard for end-game gear.

Working hard != The Grind.

I think that’s the biggest thing to remember here.

I’d like to add, that I feel like there’s completely too much randomness to the reward/loot tables. It’s depressing to run a dungeon (or even world events, though I don’t think this suggestion would work for world events) wipe over and over while figuring out the mechanics, wind up net negative after repair costs, and then see that my dungeon mates get yellow weapons/armor, superior sigils, lodestones, etc. from the chest, and I wind up with 2-4 blue items that don’t even sell for 1 silver each.

I understand that you’re already working on changing the dungeon rewards, but I read that to mean the xp/gold/token rewards, and not all the other loot, if I’m wrong here, then I apologize and disregard this.

That said, I’d like to see some kind of meta-incentive to actually run dungeons, a once/day chest you receive after completing every explorable path in the dungeon during a single 24 hour period. This would be similar to the current daily achievement system, but tied to specific dungeons, and have some dungeon unique reward, like 1x dungeon lodestone, and maybe a mystic coin. Maybe add the “daily” token bonus to this chest too, so you have to run all paths to get those extra tokens, instead of getting them on the first path people run.

And I flat out don’t see how this would negatively impact the in-game economy. Mystic coins sell for 1-2silver on average and lodestones average 35silver to 1gold, but again you only get 1 per day.

And yes, I understand that lodestones are required for legendary weapon creation, and A.Net wants to keep those as hard as possible to obtain, but at one lodestone per day, that’s still a bare minimum of 100 days of full-clears of a specific dungeon to reach the required 100 lodestones. And even if you choose to sell your lodestone, that’s a whopping 50silver or 1gold, once/day, and after trading post fees, repair costs, waypoint costs, vendor bought items for crafting, etc., the net is likely to be a lot lower and I just can’t see how that can be considered “game-breaking” or “economy-breaking.”

Anyway, just my take on the current rewards in game. I love the use of dungeon tokens, and karma, and universal in-game currencies, but I feel such a broad scope of randomness leaves a lot of players with a bad taste in their mouth. Don’t make everything easy to get, but make things at least realistically obtainable, and make a clear path to obtain desirable items, without having to resort to playing the trading post, especially since one of the design goals was supposed to be “Play the game, not the interface.” Right now, having so many people staring at the trading post all day doesn’t seem in-line with that goal at all.

This would solve some of the problems for sure.

imho it doesn’t, it would just shift some of complains/expectations. difficulty is relative (unless the gaps are big enough you actually have separate difficulties)

for example the groups I run with do fine on hodgins, but the struggle on the asura route, so if you ask them I doubt they’d say asura is easier than human.

Working hard does not equal grind. Dungeon Exotic Armor is end-game gear specifically for AESTHETIC looks only, which means you can get the same stats on your gear by doing other things, but if you want to look good then get this Dungeon Exotic Armor.

The GRIND is optional. You are not forced to do this “Grind” if you want your Character to be stronger. This Exotic Set should not just be handed over to any casual player who gets carried through a Dungeon.

What the real problem is improving Dungeons for difficulty and (not Trash mobs with super high hitpoints and damage, rather giving them abilities and better AI),replay ability (not 3-hour long dungeons filled with trash packs serving no point other than prolonging the dungeon).

The difficulty of a dungeon shouldn’t be dictated by the amount of HP/DMG the enemies have, but by the strength of their abilities and skills, and how many different skills they could have.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

we’re very aware that our reward system is not up to par for dungeons. It is something we are actively working on right now, to try and find a solution for. I’m not going to talk about what our plans are because I don’t want us to be trapped in promises, but I will say this: We know, and are actively working on updating the system.

I’m curious, did you guys notice that just now? because given some aspects of the system compared to the rest it’s hard to comprehend how it ever made it out of the brainstorming phase.
like, non level 80 rewards for AC/CM. really? did honestly someone high enough believe the majority of people would grind for these on their way to 80 to USE them at 60/70? when dungeons where supposed to be ENDgame? with dungeons in their current state?
or claiming you don’t want the dungeons to feel grindy and then require an abysmal amount of runs? did you honestly believe your dungeons, which were designed to be on the level of DOA, would be so much fun for a lot of players that they enjoy them so much it doesn’t feel grindy? did none of the decision makers ever play another mmo?

if you ran out of time and couldn’t conceive a proper system instead of wow 2009, tell us and we will say “ok, take your time but do it right”, but right now it’s hard to see any thoughtful planning or what the intention behind is (ESPECIALLY compared to the information released years and months before launch).

Adzy.8370:

Working hard does not equal grind. Dungeon Exotic Armor is end-game gear specifically for AESTHETIC looks only, which means you can get the same stats on your gear by doing other things, but if you want to look good then get this Dungeon Exotic Armor.

The GRIND is optional. You are not forced to do this “Grind” if you want your Character to be stronger. This Exotic Set should not just be handed over to any casual player who gets carried through a Dungeon.

While I agree working hard != grind, the amount of having to RERUN a dungeon for ONE piece of gear is a grind. I have not seen one post here asking for dungeons to become easy or casuals to be handed gear. A large majority of us want dungeons to be a challenge but to have the reward system reworked. Only a few of us see it as some wings should be easier than others so not to alienate your player base. The top tiered players are a small minority compared to your total. Leave in content for that is meant for the elite of the elite but also have something along the difficulty of Asura wing in Ascalon Catacombs.

Adzy.8370:

Working hard does not equal grind. Dungeon Exotic Armor is end-game gear specifically for AESTHETIC looks only, which means you can get the same stats on your gear by doing other things, but if you want to look good then get this Dungeon Exotic Armor.

The GRIND is optional. You are not forced to do this “Grind” if you want your Character to be stronger. This Exotic Set should not just be handed over to any casual player who gets carried through a Dungeon.

come on, I think we both know that it’s about the carrot and to keep players playing, no matter if the reward is a step in the item treadmill or a cosmetic reward.

also, that argument works both ways. if it’s just cosmetic why does it have to be a grind? it doesn’t make you stronger so who’s getting hurt if people run around in cool armor?

i think you are missing the point. why must every thing be easy to obtain? some things need to be harder to obtain than others. this level 80 exotic gear it supposed to be prestige, so therefore it should be earned with hard work, not just handed over to every single player as they hit level 80.