Guild Wars 2

There’s one thing that would make me really happy with dungeon rewards and that’s a single, guaranteed item of rare quality (70+) so the payoff would be a potential ecto at least.

OnionXI.6735:

There’s one thing that would make me really happy with dungeon rewards and that’s a single, guaranteed item of rare quality (70+) so the payoff would be a potential ecto at least.

yeah hopefully when they address the rewards system they will add rare loot into chests at the end of the dungeon like ectoplasm or orichalum ingots.

Adzy.8370:

i think you are missing the point. why must every thing be easy to obtain? some things need to be harder to obtain than others. this level 80 exotic gear it supposed to be prestige, so therefore it should be earned with hard work, not just handed over to every single player as they hit level 80.

I didn’t say it should, I just disagree with the notion just because it’s cosmetic it’s suddenly completely different from the geargrind in other mmo’s

I agree with the rest of your previous post (couldn’t edit my message because their forum software has the same quality as their endgame) – grind is relative, but long-term rewards are needed, even without a subscription. I think more people have an issue with the way these items are acquired than the time investment itself. no one complained about prestige armor in gw1, and it was a sometimes even worse grind than doing a dungeon 50 times and be done with it (unless you want the weapon. and the gift. and the recipe).

I get the feeling that a lot of people here complaining about the dungeon difficulty have never really experienced a raid in other MMOs. These dungeons are nothing compared to doing first runs on raids in Rift or WoW. Try wiping on a raid boss for several months before you start crying about a few wipes in the first few weeks since this MMOs release.

Here’s the thing with dungeons and why the need to be hard for the long term health of this MMO. In fact I would say this is critical for its survival.

There are all kinds of people who play MMOs with a wide range of skill sets. There are people who only like to PvP, others who PvE exclusively, and then some people in between. Some people like to have everything handed to them, and others like to fight and wipe, night after night, until they get the shiny sword they lust after.
Arenanet has done a pretty amazing job of creating content for all of these different groups. Overall, I’m in awe of the content. It’s not perfect, but it’s the best that’s been released in years, in my opinion.

Dungeons, as they’ve said before, are the HARD PvE content, intended to keep the group of people who previously might have raided in other MMOs, happy with the game (and the post-level-cap endgame especially). Story mode is perhaps intended to draw people in who might otherwise not try them. Maybe the trash is a bit tough, maybe not. I don’t personally find it tough, but that’s subjective.

If these dungeons are nerfed down and the dungeon sets are given away like candy, then there is going to be one serious consequence for GW2 within the MMO community. Suddenly everyone will be steamrolling them, getting their free dungeon set, then the forum crying will commence about how there’s nothing to do, how GW2 indeed has no endgame, and how therefore it is doomed to failure.
Arenanet knows this well and they walk a tightrope right now, where if they nerf them, they risk losing a very vocal part of the population, and generally following the trend of recent MMOs which didn’t release with much endgame — a point about GW2 that is already bandied about on MMO review sites as the greatest flaw of the game.

@ those claiming that the dungeons need to stay hard for the sake of the game:

I agree, wholeheartedly I do, I don’t want it to be easy. But I just can never consider something that has trash that one shots me or spawns stupid amounts of high hp adds to one shot me x10 times over, and a combat system that horribly punishes melee combat because of the above as good design.
I love a challenge! I hate a pigeonholed mess,hey I shot a gun, hey i shot it again/Hey I swung a sword, oh it looked at me, now I’m dead…

I don’t WANT easy dungeons but there’s no progression, players seem to be hammered with cheesey one shot mechanics from the get go, you start at level 35 and by level 40 on your second story mode run, you want to walk away because the rewards aren’t worth the insane grind of putting up with the cheesy mechanics.
And i’d forgive the rewards if the dungeons weren’t just so annoyingly geared towards this “ranged or gtho” mentality. Heck I’d re-run Cm story for little to no rewards if it was the old one, that was actually fun and I never cared much for what i got out of it.
Now? I’ve been there once and felt disappointed

TL;DR:
Rewards scale about as badly as the difficulty of even the so called “puggable” content for level 35+ players who are just midgame, you get annihilated by cheese early and rewarded in a random fashion, and annihilated later with some rewards that you can grind up to.

And people say that the devs aren’t active or never respond on the forums. Well, here’s your proof. A dev responded.

Hawken: I stopped after your first paragraph because i could see where you were going and no doubt you have written that same post many times and i understand your point!

The thing is this:

Story mode isn’t Story mode!
AC at that stage in the game will cost you too much money if you don’t get a good group and the chances of that happening at this stage are high!
Plus we want to have a fun ride through before we attempt the real challenge which most of who are complaining i’m sure would be looking forward to attempting if it wasn’t for the fact that story mode, is soo frustrating that they never want to go back in there again!

Is it too much to ask for story mode to be a nice ride without much benefits or COST!

Then leave Explorable as it is?

To me that sounds like logic and a safe way to keep the majority of players happy! After that if anyone complains, it will be about Explorable being too easy, and how hard would it be to add nightmare mode?

thumb up..

dungeon grind is killing me

I love your points and have been thinking the exact same thing, but I also think that dungeon armors should be near the level of the dungeon they came from. The fact that the first two dungeon have level 60 and 70 armors respectively and the rest have level 80 sets doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, especially when these dungeons can all be run far before level 80. Just my two cents on the matter, so glad Anet is working on it.

ThorZimeron.2169:

I love your points and have been thinking the exact same thing, but I also think that dungeon armors should be near the level of the dungeon they came from. The fact that the first two dungeon have level 60 and 70 armors respectively and the rest have level 80 sets doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, especially when these dungeons can all be run far before level 80. Just my two cents on the matter, so glad Anet is working on it.

Why on earth AC/CM exotic gear isn’t level 80 is beyond me. Yes, it’s possible to beat both dungeons before the level cap but who in their right mind is going to grind out the tokens required to get a set just to replace it at 80? It seems that so much about this game sounds great in theory but misses the mark in reality.

Okay! I have come up with a good idea that gives players an incentive to complete all paths of a Dungeon and also the time investment (not going to call it a grind) that comes with obtaining Dungeon Exotic Gear.

Here are a different ways this could be implemented so:

When an individual player completes every type of explore mode path they receive a bonus relevant to that dungeon’s tokens/gear (one option only):

1. The cost price of all dungeon exotic gear is reduced by 20%
2. The individual player receives a BONUS amount of tokens to go towards purchasing gear for that Dungeon. (I was thinking 50 tokens, what do you guys think?)
3. The player receives ONE piece of armor/weapon from that Dungeon (players choice).

So all of these options could definitely reduce the time investment that comes with Dungeon gear and also gives players a HUGE incentive to finish all explore mode paths which I think is needed. I would be happy with any of these suggestions being implemented because the time investment is still there, but it is significantly reduced when a group of players tackle every single explore mode path.

If they were to make it to where you get a single piece of armor for completing a dungeon, then you should actually have to complete the ENTIRE THING.

Not just a single path, but all of the paths for a piece of armor, and completing the story mode at least once should be mandatory. This would make it far less of a grind but still rewarding.

@barringer: maybe, but even that somewhat trivializes the armor sets into something you could pick up in a week, which just seems incredibly lame.

@Dan: honestly, I wouldn’t mind if they toned the Story mode dungeons down, if people seem to think they’re hard. It is the Explore modes I’m talking about above. I’d like to believe that would stop the whiners from demanding nerfs, but it seems there is a crowd which just wants to be handed the dungeon sets without doing the learning and progression.

Hawken.7932:

@barringer: maybe, but even that somewhat trivializes the armor sets into something you could pick up in a week, which just seems incredibly lame.

@Dan: honestly, I wouldn’t mind if they toned the Story mode dungeons down, if people seem to think they’re hard. It is the Explore modes I’m talking about above. I’d like to believe that would stop the whiners from demanding nerfs, but it seems there is a crowd which just wants to be handed the dungeon sets without doing the learning and progression.

Yes I agree that these armor sets need to have a decent time-investment. Right now the way Dungeon Tokens are collected are not challenging or rewarding , especially for CoF pre-nerf and Arah. Hopefully Anet will get it right next patch.

Make it a long process, I AGREE COMPLETELY, just keep the silver at 24 static. I couldn’t give a kitten less how long it takes to get the gear. I’M NOT PLAYING THIS GAME TO BE GOLD STARVED. Up the silver and i don’t give akittenhow hard or long the dungeons are.

I’m all for making them more difficult, JUST UP THE SILVER AND MAKE IT WORTH THE TIME AND EFFORT.

I got 13s for first CoF exp run of the day, 6s for CM story(helped some guildies run their first time) Talk about a waste of time….

24 silver is decent enough so if the grp wipes 50+ times…well yeah they’re going to have a nice time repairing BUT the people that run them efficiently can still make money and feel their time was at least decently spent.

100% agree
This would be a wonderful system

Dungeons are so unrewarding now, you barely see people looking for them now, and the ones that do, are the poor newbies that hadn’t experienced them before the nerfs.

I also don’t understand why you nerfed the gold drops in dungeons. Do you want the entire 80 population farming trolls in frostgorge, or running around Orr? You have to give us SOME sort of diversity…. its already friggin hard to get money in this game, there’s gold sinks EVERYWHERE.

Time Glitch.2460:

• Disable armor repair costs for dungeons.
• Enable wipes to reset dungeon, or to nearest waypoint.
• Ramp up difficulty on bosses to an extreme, minor adjustments to trash mobs (They’re already tough enough).
• Boss difficulty increased with abilities, not straight damage/health buff. Make the bosses more dangerous and lethal because they are smarter, not cheaper.
• If players beat an explorable dungeon mode, they are granted a token in exchange for one piece of dungeon armor.
• Players are rewarded based on progress every time they wipe. This pales in comparison to dungeon rewards, but players are granted some kind of incentive to keep playing.

I do agree with those ideas EXCEPT “players beat an explorable dungeon mode, they are granted a token in exchange for one piece of dungeon armor. (1 run grants 1 dungeon armor)” reward like this is too much for me.
IMO, The reward per run dungeon should be 50-80 tokens, plus other Rare or high level Masterworks gears, plus 50-80 silver coins reward.

Nebilim.5127:

Anet has their mind set that they do not intend to make dungeons easier to the broader crowd. Casuals have the entire overworld just for them.

I also agree with this statement, the Explorable mode dungeon should be hard because it is hard mode dungeon, that’s the point!

Working hard, Running difficult contents repeatly != Grind. At least in this game has no force grind features, it is all about optional grind that somepeople who want to have awesome look of gears should learn and adapt to it.

Before the patch it was a grind to get a full exotic set.
After the patch it is a grind to get a full exotic set at the cost of many more repairs and less rewards per run.

It used to profitable but now most of the PUGs and even guild groups lose money and interest in dungeons.

From the horse’s mouth:

http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/guild-wars-2-the-kitchen-sink-post/2/

That was the original plan for dungeons. What we have now is, and I mean this quite literally, a kittenization of what we were promised. It looks like they realized this content was going to get done too quickly, so they put this artificial barrier of “Tokens” to pull out the carrot and the stick so people wouldn’t complete all the sets within a week or two.

I guess they couldn’t make the dungeons hard enough to allow for this system to flourish.

Really looking forward to how Anet will address this.

If they follow through this will be wonderful.

Your kidding me right? You want 50-80 tokens per run? This is level 80 PRESTIGE EXOTIC armor. How about they just make Anet give us a free set once we hit level 80 cause this is where its heading.

“The Story Mode is designed to be easier than the Explorable Mode. Explorable is also, as it’s name implies… very replayable. One of the things we ran into doing missions, which is very much like this in Guild Wars 1, is that we found that doing a mission multiple times, a lot of story oriented stuff started getting in the way of you having fun. You started, ‘Ok, I’ve seen this cutscene before, skip it.’ Pretty soon this culture of skip the cutscene kinda grew up around Guild Wars 1, and so what we wanted to do was to provide people in that first story mode a linear, lots of cutscenes, lots of story going on, lots of exposition, that experience.

“…for the explorable mode it can be a lot more free-form, where you can just jump in and you’re dealing with something that doesn’t need as much explanation, doesn’t have a lot of exposition, doesn’t have a lot of cutscenes, and it has a lot of replayability built into it because there are different ways to complete it, or different paths to take. We tried to really vary each of them quite a bit so we actually don’t fall into a pattern where it’s like ‘Well, Explorable is like there’s three different paths you can take.’ That is true sometimes, but sometimes there’s three different ways, or sometimes it’s multiple ways, not even three, maybe four ways. Sometimes it branches in the middle, sometimes it branches right at the beginning.”

Although Explorable Mode is designed to be replayable and Story Mode is a more linear experience, both can be replayed as many times as you like. “They are not directly contingent upon each other, so whatever you’ve done in your personal story will not change what happens in the dungeons, or vice versa. But you will get to meet, depending on the branches you pick along your personal story, you may end up meeting some of the same characters, and experience different parts of the same storyline” says Flannum.

http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/guild-wars-2-the-kitchen-sink-post/2/

What changed from then to now?

@ Robert:

good, thank You for letting us know. Can we please have similar comments on other issues we have with the game as well? PvP and DEs?

The way i see it, Anet needs to decide on going in 1 of 2 ways

1.) Dungeons are epic, time consuming and difficult. They should take multiple hours with incredibly difficult bosses that the average PUG without optimized team setups will fail. The rewards for completing them however will be much, much more tangible (ie more gold, and either directly a piece of armor or enough tokens to buy armor). Think of them as mini-raids.

2.) Dungeons are relatively easy for experienced groups, and most PUGs are able to complete it (slow but doable). Dungeon rewards are small however, encouraging the need to repeat the dungeon multiple times. Should not take more than 30-45 mins to complete.

Right now you guys are like choosing a weird middle ground: You want the dungeons to be difficult and non-trivial to experienced players, but you want the rewards to be small so that people have an incentive to repeat. This is backfiring horribly imo. People would rather just not do dungeons at all when the difficulty is high, and the rewards are so small for completing, and the fact that you punish people that ARE good/fast at completing the dungeons. Make. up. your. mind. before people stop doing them all-together. (the number of people running CoF dropped so fast already, and you almost never see anyone looking to run anything besides Arah and TA now (the next 2 easiest dungeons).

Adzy.8370:

Your kidding me right? You want 50-80 tokens per run? This is level 80 PRESTIGE EXOTIC armor. How about they just make Anet give us a free set once we hit level 80 cause this is where its heading.

FIRSTLY. WHERE did you see prestige? SOME sets looks like UTTER kitten, but still the majority is good enough from design’s point of view.

SECONDLY. It’s same exotic armor as any crafted exotic piece, or traded on TP, or WvW rewarded ones. Nothing but an aesthetic change for your character.

Tokens.You know, people who cares about such thing as aesthetic in PvP game (like me, lol) won’t stop after getting single dungeon set or even two-three sets. They will continue collecting other sets and believe me it still will take a LOT of time. So high token rewards (like 50-80) are needed.

Another thing: gold. Should be increased too. Just look at tremendous prices for cultural T3 sets. I don’t want to farm them for ages considering that I want to get at least 4 (FOUR) cultural T3 sets. I dont have THAT MUCH time to spend in game you know?

And last thing: karma. Should be added to the end reward for completing the dungeon. This is a reference to also high enough prices for karma gear in Orr. It is a solution for those people who like doing dungeons, not DE.

You see people who don’t care about looks are already having fun playing WvW and sPvP at the time cost of zero whilst we (PvE noobs) have to grind for ages.

@ Recently:

Agreed. That’s exactly what I thought yesterday. Personally, I vote for no1.

Dungeons do need more complex, interesting mechanics in any case.

I think the biggest problem is that we mentally keep a count of how many more runs we have to do.

“In Total I have to do 30 runs, I’ve done 4, so 26 more runs to go.”

Each run show have some variation, and it should also reward you for getting farther and farther into a dungeon.

I think mobs should have a (very) small chance to drop tokens, and after each boss that spawns a chest, that chance show be risen just slightly,(to reward people for completing full runs, instead of those who would try to farm the first few mobs), while at the same time lowering the token count from chest.

(Officially say Token drops are unaffected by Magic Find.)

Ex.
The mobs from the entrance to the 1st Chest should have a 1% chance to drop a token.
The mobs from the 1st Chest to the 2nd Chest should have a 2% chance to drop a token.
The mobs from the 2nd Chest to the 3rd Chest should have a 4% chance to drop a token.
Etc.

And a flat reward should be given for completing the dungeon, say 5 tokens. (20 tokens for completing that path for the first time ever on a character)

That way, every full run should net 20-40 tokens.

Every run wont be so stale.

(This is what I loved from GW1, getting lucky with a Chaos axe or an ecto/shard drop)

The rewards are fine for me, but as someone already mentioned. KARMA. Karma is important and dungeons give 0 karma, so instead of doing dungeons, people are camping events farming karma. Dungeons should be based around tokens and karma. I dont care about exp or money, that can be made easily elsewhere. Give me karma with tokens and I will do dungeons all day long.

The problem isn’t about us, the players. Crap like “WoW mentality” or “grind mentality” or “power gamers” or “hardcore gamers” really take the focus off of the real problem.

People just want to play something that is engaging and fun. GW2 is neither, at the moment. It’s like an INTRODUCTION to something that MIGHT be fun, but it all stops there.

Don’t misplace my comments for what they are not: this is not the hate-talk, I’m just genuinely disappointed with the game, but I still believe it has potential to turn into something good. Devs just gotta work theirkitten off, in the right direction.

Agree with OP.

@ Gray,

The whole point of those dungeons was to give people something to do. Something to work for.

If you want your easy excotics then you are welcome to do that. You can craft or buy them from different vendors.

If you have to take time for it, then you should play dungeons. People walking around in CoF gear pre-buff. Shouldn’t be proud wearing it. They didn’t do anything for it, they where lazy.

Yes, they should change some things in the rewards system. Or making it a less sinkhole of money. Cause the skillcap is a little bit to high right now.

For example you can also give people a nice bonus reward when they clear 3 explorisation routes. On one day in 1 dungeon.

Bonus Tokens

1 to 2 gold bonus for everyone.
And a small, really small chance to get a Dungeon Armor token which can be replaced for an armorpiece right away.

This would make dungeons more motivating.

For the record, OP gives some nice changes. And I am glad Anet listens to the community who actually wanna work for something

Prime.9450:

Adzy.8370:

Your kidding me right? You want 50-80 tokens per run? This is level 80 PRESTIGE EXOTIC armor. How about they just make Anet give us a free set once we hit level 80 cause this is where its heading.

FIRSTLY. WHERE did you see prestige? SOME sets looks like UTTER kitten, but still the majority is good enough from design’s point of view.

SECONDLY. It’s same exotic armor as any crafted exotic piece, or traded on TP, or WvW rewarded ones. Nothing but an aesthetic change for your character.

Tokens.You know, people who cares about such thing as aesthetic in PvP game (like me, lol) won’t stop after getting single dungeon set or even two-three sets. They will continue collecting other sets and believe me it still will take a LOT of time. So high token rewards (like 50-80) are needed.

Another thing: gold. Should be increased too. Just look at tremendous prices for cultural T3 sets. I don’t want to farm them for ages considering that I want to get at least 4 (FOUR) cultural T3 sets. I dont have THAT MUCH time to spend in game you know?

And last thing: karma. Should be added to the end reward for completing the dungeon. This is a reference to also high enough prices for karma gear in Orr. It is a solution for those people who like doing dungeons, not DE.

You see people who don’t care about looks are already having fun playing WvW and sPvP at the time cost of zero whilst we (PvE noobs) have to grind for ages.

Ok you asked why is Dungeon armor considered prestige. Well it is prestige because of the sheer time investment and difficulty that it takes to obtain a full set. That is why when you see someone with a full set, you think “wow, that player looks awesome.”

Secondly, its the same as any exotic armor because Arena Net decided that GW2 character progression isn’t going to be based on grinding for +1 Stats. It is instead designed to cater for the casual player, so they have end-game armor which is easily obtainable by crafting (as you mentioned) or off the Trading post, they continue to play content that is added to the game with out having to grind.

You want 50-80 tokens per run? Well when you see someone with Dungeon Exotic armor, you are going to think “oh, he chose to wear that armor,” rather than “wow that armor looks awesome, which dungeon is that from.” So basically you are lowering the value of all the dungeon exotic armor. Dungeon exotic sets were designed for the more ‘hardcore’ gamer, to give them something to do and work for – so if you are a casual player complaining that its too hard to get the set, well its OPTIONAL.

I can’t really make any suggestions on the gold you get from dungeons but i think you can make a fair profit from continuously doing dungeons. it really depends up to the skill of the player and how much time that player has. (just like in real life, time is money).

I think the problem is the repetitiveness of the content? you just repeat the dungeon again and again to kill the same boss again and again. Nothing left to explore in the so-called explorer mode. There should be random encounters or events which awards you some extra rewards and achievement in dungeon which also gives you small amount of gold and tokens. It may require you to kill the boss in different ways or even affect boss you encounter.

Yeah, the dungeon armour is not some amazing reward that we should have to do rock hard dungeons 20 or 30 times to get. Some of the sets do look pretty cool, but I think 1 peice per run is much more inkeeping with the “no grind” philosophy, especially if you want to get a few sets.

The dungeons are (mostly) really, really hard and take 2-3 hours to complete (inb4 wannabe e-sport pro tryhards saying they’re too easy), I don’t see why we need to do them more than, say, 5 times to get a set of ok-ish looking armour?

What many of you are equating as “hard work” is actually “doing the same thing over and over”. If it’s desirable to do it over and over it can’t be really hard can it? If it was genuinely hard work, you would only want to do it a few times, not mash your head against it 20 or 30 times… Personally I see much more value in a reward I get for doing something very difficult once, rather than something quite difficult 100 times. Yes, doing it 100 times needs me to put the time in, and numb my brain by doing it over and over, but that’s not the kind of effort I want to put into my leisure time, I get enough of that at work!

I do agree the difficulty of bosses is pretty weak compared with the difficulty of a group of 3 trash mobs tho. Bosses need to be scaled up to match the hardness of trash mobs. If we had epic bosses that required true teamwork, dedication and tactics to beat, then it would feel like a true achieivement when we beat them, and that reward of 1 peice of dungeon armour would seem justified.

Chamone.6890:

Yeah, the dungeon armour is not some amazing reward that we should have to do rock hard dungeons 20 or 30 times to get. Some of the sets do look pretty cool, but I think 1 peice per run is much more inkeeping with the “no grind” philosophy, especially if you want to get a few sets.

The dungeons are (mostly) really, really hard and take 2-3 hours to complete (inb4 wannabe e-sport pro tryhards saying they’re too easy), I don’t see why we need to do them more than, say, 5 times to get a set of ok-ish looking armour?

I agree the difficulty of bosses is pretty weak compared with the difficulty of a group of 3 trash mobs tho. Bosses need to be scaled up to match the hardness of trash mobs.

well if it is not that great, you don’t have to grind for it. because the stats are on par with crafted exotic armor which is much more easier to obtain. just because you are a casual player doesn’t mean arenanet has to hand everything to you.

if you want to look different to other level 80, then start doing the dungeons.

Ramp up difficulty on bosses, that must be a joke. The bosses I’ve met already is hard enough. This game should be for everyone not just hardcore gamers. This is entertainment not serious business. Or make a hard difficulty.
The only problem I have with some bosses is that they take to long to kill so either increase the reward for spending that time to kill it or give them slightly less hp (not less deadly). Though one-shot-kill abilities is a bit excessive. I think you should have more than one chance if you (after 10 minutes of spamming the same boss) fail to dodge, especially if you guys want to take away respawn!

Stalkarn.1329:

Ramp up difficulty on bosses, that must be a joke. The bosses I’ve met already is hard enough. This game should be for everyone not just hardcore gamers. This is entertainment not serious business. Or make a hard difficulty.
The only problem I have with some bosses is that they take to long to kill so either increase the reward for spending that time to kill it or give them slightly less hp (not less deadly). Though one-shot-kill abilities is a bit excessive. I think you should have more than one chance if you (after 10 minutes of spamming the same boss) fail to dodge, especially if you guys want to take away respawn!

there are 4 difficulty paths in explore mode, each with a different difficulty level.

Its great that the ArenaNet is listening
Yay arena

Adzy.8370:

Ok you asked why is Dungeon armor considered prestige. Well it is prestige because of the sheer time investment and difficulty that it takes to obtain a full set. That is why when you see someone with a full set, you think “wow, that player looks awesome.”

it’s called prestige because they vaguely resemble the prestige armor in gw1 in terms of long term goal (with a lot less variety in progression).
fun fact: if you wanted you could simply buy your way to most armors. still players perceived them as special. what does that say about “hardcore” and “prestige”?

RobinotX.1604:

@ Gray,

The whole point of those dungeons was to give people something to do. Something to work for.

If you want your easy excotics then you are welcome to do that. You can craft or buy them from different vendors.

If you have to take time for it, then you should play dungeons. People walking around in CoF gear pre-buff. Shouldn’t be proud wearing it. They didn’t do anything for it, they where lazy.

Yes, they should change some things in the rewards system. Or making it a less sinkhole of money. Cause the skillcap is a little bit to high right now.

I never said in this thread or anywhere else on this forum I want easy exotics. why do people always assume that if you don’t agree with the status quo you only do it because you want easy mode everywhere (especially after I wrote a game needs long-term goals)?

people running around with the armor now are hardly lazy. they have in fact run the dungeon enough times for the tokens. that is anything but lazy. and who said they’re proud? maybe they just wanted a cool looking armor for their char and it was the COF armor. who cares? doesn’t affect me one bit.
so they have it, everybody knows it was faster to get then others, so?

if people want to impress in this game it’s definitely not with armor that simply states “I’ve done this dungeon 50 times and all I got what this armor”.

the problem right now is a lot of people have a different problem with dungeons (difficulty curve, accessibility, design, rewards etc), which boils down to a general “dungeons are crap!”

my personal issue with dungeons is this:
- bad design
making stuff hard to see and slapping obscene amounts of hp on bosses/trash is not challenging. high hp trash is dull, I can hardly see someone go grinding down that champ and say “I’m having so much fun right now! I swung a sword! hey, I swung it again! squeeeee”

- bad reward system
I don’t have a problems with grinding for tokens or investing time to get something, as long as I have fun doing it. sure, fun is subjective, but where’s the flexibility from gw1 to work towards the armor I want with what I perceive as fun and still be able to progress? grinding exactly one dungeon for one set of armor is hardly a revolutionary concept (especially when most mmos already abandoned it).

others have a different opinion/expectation regarding rewards, some want cool loot every run in the chest, other want a random factor so every run is a gamble (to each his own).

just because someone disagrees or questions the current state doesn’t mean he ultimately plots to destroy someone else’s fun.

I just wish they’d have left cm alone, it wasn’t being run for it’s insane rewards, most of us assumed it was “working as intended” had a nice curve, and we were all preparing for the next dungeon in story mode.

If they fit in with our personal story, and we’re mailed about and encouraged to do them, why does the very first dungeon to a lesser degree, and then the second put us off them entirely? to the point where only a clearly abusable path becomes the popular farm?

:S people are not abusing for no reason, they shouldn’t have HAD to in the first place. Was pretty sure the feedback when they asked “what sort of microtransaction should we put in place” they were told “vanity armor sets would make you a bomb, like skins in LoL”

I see a few generic armor transmutes that can be used once at a time so you’re gonna wait til 80 and have a full set you wanna use it on (gonna take ages) and a few lame “repair in a can” boosters that look like slightly less garbage cash shop items from korean mmo’s that try and bleed the player dry at every turn xD

Riot games are making money hand over fist. can Arenanet say the same in a year? XD

If I can’t get people to run the explorable mode dungeons a few times due to frustration, how do I get them to run them multiple times a day to help me work towards my dungeon set? :S

Yes, sadly it would hurt … MMORPG is like real world and I wont play mmorpg game where someone who plays 5x less and worse than me will have same gear. And I bet there are a lot more players like me, farming dungeons, best gear, legendaries just because they want to be among the top players.

This is the reason i quit wow and few others mmoprgs, cause they are mainly casual frindly games. Everything handed to everyone for free.. no thank you

Would you care about legendary if everyone could have it ? I wouldnt.
Same goes for any piece of armor.

Adzy.8370:

Ok you asked why is Dungeon armor considered prestige. Well it is prestige because of the sheer time investment and difficulty that it takes to obtain a full set. That is why when you see someone with a full set, you think “wow, that player looks awesome.”

Secondly, its the same as any exotic armor because Arena Net decided that GW2 character progression isn’t going to be based on grinding for +1 Stats. It is instead designed to cater for the casual player, so they have end-game armor which is easily obtainable by crafting (as you mentioned) or off the Trading post, they continue to play content that is added to the game with out having to grind.

You want 50-80 tokens per run? Well when you see someone with Dungeon Exotic armor, you are going to think “oh, he chose to wear that armor,” rather than “wow that armor looks awesome, which dungeon is that from.” So basically you are lowering the value of all the dungeon exotic armor. Dungeon exotic sets were designed for the more ‘hardcore’ gamer, to give them something to do and work for – so if you are a casual player complaining that its too hard to get the set, well its OPTIONAL.

I can’t really make any suggestions on the gold you get from dungeons but i think you can make a fair profit from continuously doing dungeons. it really depends up to the skill of the player and how much time that player has. (just like in real life, time is money).

Dungeon exotic sets were designed for the more ‘hardcore’ gamer, to give them something to do and work for – so if you are a casual player complaining that its too hard to get the set, well its OPTIONAL.
Ok, I am not a hardcore gamer, but I’d like to have as many armor sets as possible. Moreover I want to lvl up to 5 characters and dress them too. So considering current prices and DR maybe I should ask my boss to fire me so I could play more? I0I

Well when you see someone with Dungeon Exotic armor, you are going to think “oh, he chose to wear that armor,” rather than "wow that armor looks awesome, which dungeon is that from.
Thats correct. But this fact never bothered me as I don’t care what other people think how my outfit looks like. Its all about my own satisfaction. So I don’t care about armor “openness” for wider masses in terms of time AND price.

You see we all have paid for that game already and we will do it again when new content comes out. Developers don’t care about our online as they already have our money. However they care about our interest in game and I must say there is no interest to grind 1600 tokens for any characters (not even considering another proffessions you’ll chose for your alts).

Great post OP. I do not mind dying a lot, I do not mind wiping 100x on hard encounter, I do not mind more and more harder difficulties in explorable, don’t mind 5 tokens or 6 silvers, but please do not make us to spend more that we can get from rewards, just disable stupid repairs, everything else will be fine.

They don’t want to be trapped in promises XD
Yet they promised this game was going to be different and not be the same old grind.
Trapped there already my friend.
By grind i mean coin wise.
Who the hell wants to spend 2-10+ silver on repairs and get 1silver as the reward?
ha.

Every decision, every patch every measure (if you haven’t noticed) Has been the cheapest and easiest way to accomplish two goals.

1. Extend as far as possible what is substituted for endgame.

-In 4 months do you really see yourself doing these same dungeons?

2. Reduce greatly the rate players can farm anything or acquire gold regularly.

-Everything in this game costs. From crafting to travel to repairs, it’s much better for Anet to have buying gold as a viable option for time-pressed casuals and/or frustrated regulars.

2 dungeons in under an hour then the punishment begins. Has there ever been a game that punished players for efficient play? Not that i can think of however it does accomplish both of the afore mentioned incentives quite nicely.

@Gray:
bad design
making stuff hard to see and slapping obscene amounts of hp on bosses/trash is not challenging. high hp trash is dull, I can hardly see someone go grinding down that champ and say “I’m having so much fun right now! I swung a sword! hey, I swung it again! squeeeee”

Here I believe (personally) is the source of the problem. The encounters are not badly designed, people are just trying to zerg them, from what I’ve exprienced in all of the bad groups so far, and I would guess often in glass-cannon type builds. You can’t really blame people for this, because there’s not much in the open PvE world which teaches people anything other than “zerg bosses”, and there are no dual-build options so that we can keep a high mitigation build ready for dungeons. This is tricky, because I love that they hold you to one build in the open world so that your decisions on builds mean something, but on the other hand it discourages people from making builds which fit the dungeon content. Anyway, trash is manageable in dungeons if you are smart and work as a team. Bosses.. well much the same. I don’t really see them as different from bosses I’ve encountered raiding in WoW, Rift, AoC, whatever.

bad reward system
I don’t have a problems with grinding for tokens or investing time to get something, as long as I have fun doing it. sure, fun is subjective, but where’s the flexibility from gw1 to work towards the armor I want with what I perceive as fun and still be able to progress? grinding exactly one dungeon for one set of armor is hardly a revolutionary concept (especially when most mmos already abandoned it).

So here I don’t really see you explaining why it’s a bad reward system, I see you again saying that you think the dungeons aren’t fun, and I guess that’s because you feel they are too hard. Subjectively, I find the dungeons great and fun, so I guess to me it doesn’t feel like a grind at all. These sets should take us 6 months to get, or long term goals anyway. I’m not stressing about doing the dungeon again and again and again, I consider it a sideline goal — as there are plenty of other things to do in the game, so bit by bit, I will get those dungeon sets without ever feeling the grind of it.

People wanted and craving to have those dungeon sets “right now” is the real problem, imho.

Making it harder will be stupid.

the biggest thing you need to change simply put:

Make the END boss ridiculously hard….not the champs or the sub bosses:
- it is taking away from the overall feel of “Oh god, here comes the main boss guy get ready people!!!!!”

and finally Rewards need to be 100x better..
- like seriously..why do i keep getting a helm every time i finish a story mode dungeon..c’mon really?

You get the helm, because story mode is just an introduction to the dungeon and the helm is the “free” piece you get for doing it. What do you expect to be rewarded with for story mode?