Guild Wars 2

Edit:

now i can tell you guys after FoTM introduced:

I TOLD YA SO!!!!!!!!

and you didnt believe it :P

Edit end

So now this is the trend,
Even i myself only invite people to party with me for dungeons only if they are at least lvl 70+

its easy cake:
get 1 memser with speed buff for whole party so bosses dont take forever,
get 1 necromancer with they minions they are some nice distractions,
get 1 thief to rez everyone
get 1 guardian to put up shields against projectils
get 1 good damage dealer (avoid engineers they just dont do enough damage, and eles are just too squishy)

it rocks, you die only 1-3 times and dont get eaten by mobs for like 40 times, i wish someone would have given me this advise earlier :P

Doesn’t this defeat the whole no-dedicated-class purpose? Necromancers minions will die easily if there’s a boss with an AoE effect, like Subject Alpha. Thieves are suited for far better things than just “rezzing” everyone and an Engineer can DPS pretty well.

y’know, I was planning a support build for my thief, but this goes a little far imo

Definitely the player not the class. As an ele I bring tons of utility to the table:
AoE nukes, slows, stuns, cripples, immobilize, blinds
Auras that stun chill and reflect projectiles as well as protection when apply them.
Group interupts.
A blink-like ability.
FROST BOW, christ people dont understand how useful this thing is. #2 5stacks of vulnerability, 10 if through a lightning field, #3 is chill, #4 is a sky to ground AoE which causes tons of confusion and murders structures. Oh an #5 is like an 8 second stun the traps enemies in ice blocks and did I mention you get 2 of them. Oh and we can go invulnerable while channeling anything like a button press or switch.

Basically, I either pity you, laugh at you, or resent you. Haven’t decided which.

@Ender – is there a like button around here? “Like” .
@ Amen- I can’t believe that is what you came up with. … (T_T).

errr no. I don’t know what server you are, but I hope it’s not in TC. While I am a lvl 80 myself, I have never seen anyone discriminate against a class or a level whenever I do dungeons.

I disagree with the OP, but I do want to comment that in recent days I have found that I’m less likely to take people just barely over the level of an explorable mode than level 80’s. The reason really has nothing to do with level, but more with the fact that if you’re level 35 trying to get an AC run (for instance), it’s far more likely you have no idea what you’re doing than some level 80 trying to find the same run. That’s totally a logical fallacy, by the way, but it’s totally been the case for me so far.

So what you people say is, you do the Ascalon dungeon with, say, 5 lvl 40 guys?
You got time for that? If one of those has no idea of the game (tactics), the char, OR the skills (or all of it), you won´t possibly make it. And don´t tell me such players don´t exist, cause I even see them on lvl 80.
I think her point is that you can have easy dungeons with lvl 80 partys, like one guy said in another thread, a group of 4 warriors and a mesmer kills bosses in 2 mins (not sure which boss, but 2 mins is a good time for any). Even at lvl 80, the lower lvl dungeons aren´t easy, and it´s true that the chars are balanced, but personally I think one tank guy is not enough cause the players don´t just play chars, they play roles. No Ele or Necro will come close, and if they do, they die with 1 or 2 hits cause their skill set is meant for ranged combat or summoning minions etc.
Group balancing isn´t char balancing, simple as that.
I´m not saying it´s impossible to complete dungeons with chars that hardly meet the requirements, but you have much less chances to complete it with a moderate amount of deaths and in a moderate time. The rest is personal perception and preference.

lol coming from bwe’s where everyone was 35 and easily completing all paths I must say “LoL”

Its almost as amusing as being on my 54 and watching 2 lvl80 wars stand in front of the 1st mob of AC story and get taken down.

Even the lvl 30’s I was teaching it knew to run/react when they started getting whacked in the face with a hammer.

Level does not equal ability. Asking for lvl 80’s is purely hoping that lvl 80 means they know what they are doing. but then again I am rolling a guardian this time around.

Go ahead and carry only 80’s give it 2 weeks and the lvl 35’s you didnt take will be lvl 80.

“No Ele or Necro will come close, and if they do, they die with 1 or 2 hits cause their skill set is meant for ranged combat or summoning minions etc.”

Staff ele vs melee:
Chill, Cripple, Immobilize, Teleport, Static Field, Windborne Speed, Mist Form
vs ranged:
Chill, Magnetic Reflection (solo and group), Mist Form
vs CC:
Armor of Earth, Attunement Stability, Mist Form

D/D ele vs melee:
Chill, Teleport, 2 interrupts, Shock Aura, Frost Aura………

Need I go on?

No, ele’s cant take damage as well as most classes, but we don’t have to. Why do you think the ‘bunker ele’ is considered so OP in PvP? Fact is, if an ele gets aggro, he has no choice but to “tank”, a good ele will rise to the challenge, and a bad one is graveling food.

What do you mean you only die 1-3 times? The object is to die none which the groups I have been in have done on numerous occassions. if you are satisfied with 3 deaths you are doing it wrong.

Replace 1 good damage dealer with warrior.

Melee dps > range dps ( devs have stated this youmad?).

3 guardians + 2 rangers = all 3 hotw paths with prob 3 downs in total (as a team) XD

No but seriously, I dont think that the classes matter TOO much (as long as you have 1 or 2 people that can take damage and not 5 people running full magic find gears). What is more important is dungeon experience (not charging recklessly into the next mob, knowing which mob is more dangerous) as well as group coordination (which target to focus first) and understanding the boss mechanics (avoid the red circle? :P)

Amen.2630:

it rocks, you die only 1-3 times and dont get eaten by mobs for like 40 times, i wish someone would have given me this advise earlier :P

So it rocks that you only die 1-3 times?

I hope OP is just making a troll post…cause…yeaaaaa.

There is absolutely nothing stopping people who are of the dungeons level, with level appropriate gear from doing equally good as a full group of 80s.

This kind of attitude is REALLY toxic to the game and will do nothing but drive away new players for lack of finding groups until they get to max level. Which is completely unnecessary seeing as how dungeons are so much fun and an awesome way to level up.

So far I’ve been kicked twice from pugs because they wanted “lvl 70 or above, sorry”. I’m currently lvl 59 and I play an extremely tanky/support warrior build. About 60% of my leveling has come from running dungeons non-stop. In most of the pugs I get into, I find out I’m the most experienced one in the dungeon. So yes, unfortunately this problem does exist. And it sucks.

On the other hand, last night due to a weird glitch, two of the people in my CM explorable pug got booted out of the dungeon and couldn’t get back in. The remaining necro, ranger, and myself ended up 3-manning the last half of the Asura path, including Frost. It was difficult, but we did it.

And none of us were lvl 70 or above :)

I lol’d so hard! Sorry to destroy hope but that post gave me cancer.

We did AC explorable with 35-45 characters (it was harder than all 80 with all traits but it was done – team speak was crucial) At first trys it was hell, but now when we know how AC explo works, and we know how dungeons work we do some paths in 20-30 min. You just need to lern.

“avoid engineers they just dont do enough damage” did You ever saw a skilled granade build offensive engi ? He does HELL like aoe burst damage also applying and keeping up ~17-20 vournelability stacs.

“eles are just too squishy” – If they don’t know how to play stand in every crap boss toss on the ground and take every hit on their face with glass cannon than yes they are, like every other class playing like that…

If You are new to dungeons plz don’t read the first post… (or tommorrow pugs will be requiring “gear score” if You know what I mean).

Everything non-Warrior is just a waste of a slot. Dragging WHOLE team down.

Good joke. Engis and Eles are top DPS currently.

Yes, most people are right on the fact that lvl 80 brings better dps, survivability and mechanics knowledge than noobish lvl 35. That’s an obvious fact. The problem is that they are wrong. I’ve done AC exp numerously with my friend lvl 30 mes as an undergeared ele (blues with 15 levels difference) without deaths and maybe 1-3 downed state per whole team. I’ve done TA exp even more times with non-level 80 ppl. I also have done those dungs with lvl 80 ppl with lvl 70 blues in MF gear and that was my worst experience ever. They wouldn’t listen to simple requests and most of their answers were “I like that skill and I won’t change it” when asked to swap god kitten signet of shadow to something tiny useful.

As previous people have clearly stated: you must be playing with some really terrible Elementalists to check them off of your invite list that quickly. As an Elementalist, I do massive amounts of dps and set burn conditions on enemies so even IF I die, enemies will be long gone so the rest of the party can rez me. And that’s a strong IF because I don’t die often. All in all, you are incorrect. Level 30’s can run it just as quickly and just as efficiently as level 80’s.

I think you should take another look at the classes. And in particular what combo finishes and starters they have. Dungeons can be EZ mode with perma regen and might, + constant aoe heals. All of the above from class combos. Engineer is boss with blast finishers.

I tried doing dungeons with Minion Master build and they were just aggroing everything. It was so much more inefficient than Condition build with one or two minion skills for meat shields. I don’t know what kind of party you’re running with but just because people are level 80 doesn’t automatically mean they know what they’re doing.

I play as MM from pre launch. My minions behave perfectly, all of them, flesh golem included. You have to learn how to be an MM and makes them work properly. And they survive on most fight tanking and doing loads of damage, and back still alive, thinks.
In fact, everyone inviting me is happy of my performance, asking me my build and how i play as MM. So ye, MM minions are a nice distraction.

As a guardian I never used any projectile shield skill. Infact I’m the one who mostly ressing people if they are down, thanks to aegis and focus skill 5 I can take few hits before getting some real damage although thief with shadow refugee is also good at ressing people.

Sometimes, a level 30 in AC, can do better than a level 80 downed to 30, because he/she is used to their health being that low. This means that they react to the damage numbers they see on the screen better than you do, as your mind gets confused by the small numbers… when you are used to (like me) having 27k hp and suddenly have 2.5k instead… it makes it harder.

So in the end, the skill is most important, not the traits or gear… Just like it was intended…

ok, for traits “maybe”, but mate, engineers can DPS fiercely, n having a mesmer as mainly a speed boost=massive waste of a mesmer, especially with the DPS/support we can provide….same as a ‘rez’ thief…. n aslong as they match req’s, n e profession is welcome @ n e level, i myself=100%+level 80, but im still noob @ dungeons

I was level 55 when I did my first explorable dungeon. Since then I’ve been doing dungeons and gradually levelling up in the process. I’ve now completed all dungeons on all paths and so level 80 is definitely not required to do dungeons.

Just follow the recommended level of the dungeon and as long as the party is competent you will do fine. Levels are so overrated don’t put too much emphasis on them.

As for party setups it really doesn’t matter as long as you work well together and you are skilled in your profession. Me and my party of 3 warriors and 2 mesmers completed all 4 Arah paths in 2 days first time we did it without even being entirely exotic geared.

So, level, professions, gear. They aren’t as important factors as people seem to think. Sure they help but skill as a player and a team is what is the real deciding factor.

You can be fully exotic geared, level 80, ‘perfect’ team setup and still loose horribly if there are unskilled players or bad teamwork.

No, it doesn’t work like in other games, had 0 deaths with random professions, last one was a random run with 2 necros, 2 eng (one was me) and 1 warrior, few deaths in party but no wipe and me not killed.

Amen.2630:

So now this is the trend,
Even i myself only invite people to party with me for dungeons only if they are at least lvl 70+

its easy cake:
get 1 memser with speed buff for whole party so bosses dont take forever,
get 1 necromancer with they minions they are some nice distractions,
get 1 thief to rez everyone
get 1 guardian to put up shields against projectils
get 1 good damage dealer (avoid engineers they just dont do enough damage, and eles are just too squishy)

it rocks, you die only 1-3 times and dont get eaten by mobs for like 40 times, i wish someone would have given me this advise earlier :P

or you can go 5 poison spreading shortbow thieves

I’ve completed AC and CM in explorable mode with people from various levels and it was just fine either way. As long as people know how to play their profession properly, follow called targets and know when to dodge, it’s all good.

I think some may have missed the point slightly. Yes, you can do it at pretty much any level just as good/better as an 80. The issue is why take the chance?

I have been seeing people ask for 80s more and more lately. I don’t, but I can understand why. I can form a group of all lvls/profs and clear it in record time while doing a “then and now” on Tonya Harding. This doesn’t always to go so well if more than 2 people are low lvl. (but still can) The other idea is to find lvl 80s who are doing their dailies also and knock them out.

The second plan works out much more than the first from what I notice. The combination of amount of skill points, higher lvl gear with 3 stats, a few different exotic weapon combos, and the shear number of times ran increased the odds of a quick and easy run. Not only that, there is not much need to explain any fights or tactics. The players know the fights and the skills to switch based on group comp/encounter. Toss in the ideal mindless run composition and you have the greatest odds to be pain free.

Again, this is by no means a sure bet, but I can understand why people would seek it. With some buggy and/or gimmicky mechanics the fun gets lost and the grind begins. Its annoying with most of the current mechanics, to fight more than you have to. So that is mostly where I see the “experienced and lvl 80” only.

@Coshocton
Very well put. I was waiting to get home and post the same reply.

Yes, you can complete the dungeon with lower levels. But the extra stats on level 80 gears plus the fact that they got to level 80 so they should (hence the should part and most likely btw) will know their class better than a fresh level 35 wanting to run AC exp. Your chance of blazing through the dungeon with little to no problems is higher when you don’t have low levels tagging along.

Personally I quite like helping people who are lower level to learn how to run dungeons. Sure it might take a little longer but if they’re willing to learn and listen to advice then it doesn’t take that much longer if you have a couple of experienced players in your party.

This whole ‘Why take the chance with non 80’s it’ll be so much faster and reliable if they are all 80’s’ is kind of a selfish attitude and more about what you want and what you get out of it than helping people in your community. There are also plenty of people who aren’t 80 who are competent players.

Like yesterday I did Caudecus’ path 2 with 2 level 80’s, one 45 and one 55 pug and it went really well. We had fun with pillow fights as well! Compared to another time where I did it with a full 80 group and we wiped so many times.

These things some of you are saying just sound very elitist to me. Being 80 does not make you a more competent or better player. Being 80 means you can help those who aren’t to progress through the game.

This isn’t WoW or similar MMO where being 80 makes you better, GW2 has implemented the level scaling so you as an experienced player can help those who aren’t with your knowledge of the game and enjoy lower level content.

Anyway that’s just my opinion, I don’t mean it to sound offensive and I’m sure you guys are nice people but it really just boils down to you wanting to have your reward asap and feeling as if you are better for being 80 when you think about it.

Anet maybe shouldn’t have implemented the levels after all. People have been rushing through the game to 80 after a couple of days or feel themselves as better because they’re 80 all because it’s this attitude instilled by other MMO’s.

I understand your time is precious but I can guarantee it’s far more rewarding to help people in your community than just yourself. Rushing isn’t the goal of the game it’s having fun with others. You might actually be surprised how good lower levels can be not to mention great people.

@Coshocton: I made a similar post to this and agree on your points. Why bother taking anyone lower than L80 when L80 toons/gear/traits give that much more wiggle room to skill level (especially when pugging)?

I can play my toon with my tongue and one toe as well … but why would I want to?

I have done explorables with 4 eles and a warrior.
I have also done them with zero warriors or guardians.

There was literally no noticable difference. All you need is a team of people who know how to play their class and you’re set.

As an ele I have long since stopped being squishy. I have optimized my build and learned to take advantage of all of my skills, to survive as long (or longer) as any other team member. I constantly change up my utilites and weapons according to the situation.

@Faye
We aren’t saying lower level players aren’t competent at all or can’t be better than level 80. Reread our post. We are merely stating that the higher level you are the more likely you will know your class (MORE LIKELY, MORE LIKELY, and again for even more emphasis MORE LIKELY).

Yes, it is very selfish. Do I condone in it? Not really. If a party member wants only level 70s+ than yes I will start shouting for that, other than that I don’t care myself. Just last night I did AC path 1 with zero level 80’s in the party. I, myself, am I only level 72 (I was the highest in the party). And we blazed through the dungeon with no problems.

So again, yes it is very possible that you can do it with lower level players. But you have to admit it is generally true (GENERALLY meaning NOT ALWAYS) the higher level the player, the more he knows his class, the better the stats on his gear (stats on gear doesn’t get scaled, his character stats yes), and the more useful he is to the team. Why? Because a level 80 has been playing his class in most likely (again there is that most likely word) in harder areas where it takes a lot more skill to survive and kill than a level 30 to 40 area. I know it was definitely true with me.

I started out on my elementalist using one attunement during an entire fight! I quickly realized that in order to be affective with an elementalist you gotta do the dance every 1-3 seconds. Than I realized how to properly setup my traits so I don’t die in 2 hits. I began realizing which weapon set I am most comfortable with. I got even more comfortable with that weapon set by knowing when to use what skills. I began to read up more on combo finishers and combo blasters and incorporating them into different rotations. I started looking into more utility skills now. And finally, I learned that you can’t play an entire dungeon with the same utility skill set up. Sometimes you gotta switch them out during a run for different encounters.

All of the above, learned through experience by progressing my character through levels that required me to try harder and use my class more effectively in order to complete a map.

I laugh every time I see people looking for <class X> for a dungeon. It’s all about the specs. That’s pretty much a heads up to me to avoid those groups, because they’re usually bads.
You can have 5 warriors with different utility/weapon specs and do very well in explorables, or you can have 5 GS warriors with 5x signets and wipe endlessly.
Hell, if said 5 GS warriors are very good even that might work.

As for levels, I pretty much only run Arah exp, so they all have to be lvl 80 anyway.

Bahahahahahahah ok for 80s, but this game is so easy you don’t need class combinations and you don’t need support at all. kitten support actually, game is so easy support is a waste of time.

The best team I ever had was 5 glass cannon in full berserker gear

1 Shout Warrior keeping us with Fury and Might
1 Guardian with staff/Gsword full berserk giving us a ton of might too
Me a meditation Guardian with great self heal to tank mobs
1 Thief
1 Mesmer

Usual time to clear CoE 1h 1h30, our time : 42 minutes and very very little deaths because a bit of experience and glass cannons is the only thing you need in these easy dungeons.

I know it creates a higher chance of it being easier but that doesn’t change that it’s a selfish attitude to have and to presume higher levels are better is also elitist. I get your point that it’s more likely to succeed but that doesn’t make it a good excuse if you know what I mean?

Don’t get me wrong, I just would like to see more people helping others with dungeons. I guess I had hoped the community would become less self involved when there’s so many mechanics put in place that encourages you to play with others without being prejudiced towards their gear/level.

I just hope some people will reconsider their viewpoint because as you said with your experience of lower levels it is more than possible to be just fine and enjoyable. I suppose it’s maybe an utopian way to think but if nobody says anything about it then it will just be assumed as being normal and therefore okay.

The most fun is when the person has never done a dungeon before and comes out having really enjoyed the experience or I ran a dungeon once with some people who were having a miserable time for it with some bad pug experiences but I showed them how it can be overcome and have fun in the process.

The game isn’t fun just for content alone it’s the people that make all the difference. In other MMO’s I found that nobody liked the grinding. What they really enjoyed about the game was the company, the people (At least this was often the case). GW2 gives you the perfect opportunity not to just have fun content but also more incentive to play with others.

I wish more people would seize the opportunity to change their ways and contribute to a pleasant experience for all of the community not just their own. If people would like to do so then they should be the change they wish to see in others. Any way :P Rambling on.

You get my point though, it’s not that it’s a bad thing per say but it’s not a good thing either.

Amen.2630:

get 1 guardian to put up shields against projectils

Actually your speed buff mesmer can go ahead and just do this job.

I think the point is that if you are lvl 80 with full exotic, u will be allowed to make more mistakes without making you die. I team with my guildmates every night, and after completing all dungeon paths, we decided to up our lower level toons, it is then we realize that although low levels can enter dungeons at certain level, you will die so much faster than you expect. So we normally do with at least two 80 levels to carry the other three lower ones; not that its impossible to do with all maybe level 35s for AC, but it is wayyyyyyyyyy harder. And take much longer obviously.

So I could say OP is understandable. There is no harm in taking a low level, but it is definitely beneficial to take a group of full 80s.