Guild Wars 2

I’ve done a few dungeon runs, some successful and some not. I’ve heard a fair number of complaints, mostly on the forums, and it would be easy to say that “everybody thinks the dungeons are too hard.”

I don’t think that’s accurate. I think there are hundreds of thousands of players who are quite happily playing the dungeons as they are. And because they’re happy, they don’t feel the need to come the forums and mention it. They’re too busy having fun. The reason the majority of the posts about dungeons are complaints, is because people who are unhappy are more likely to complain about it.

The dungeons are great the way they are. You should never be assured that you will clear a dungeon when you set foot inside it. It should always be a challenge. If there’s no risk of failure, then there’s no joy in success.

Don’t bow to the pressure, Anet. The dungeons are great.

not nerfed but they need to be tweaked in some way

I love the difficulty, it really makes me feel like I’m achieving something. Is that bar too high? Maybe for some particular encounters, but we won’t be able to really say until the community has had a chance to formulate and standardize strategies. With the right strategy, any encounter should be doable and so far that seems to be the case.

They need to fix the bugs asap imo.

Agreed, people needs to change their way of thinking that 5 player dungeons are easy prerequisite for the “elite content” (raids). Here in GW 2 “raids” happen all over the game in every lvl and 5 man dungeons are the actual “elite content”.
Go to them when you know what you are doing.

I totally made a thread on this too. Don’t make them easier.

The rewards need tremendous improvement for the difficulty to remain what it is. You should never leave a dungeon with less than what you entered with.

DFAnton.5304:

The rewards need tremendous improvement for the difficulty to remain what it is. You should never leave a dungeon with less than what you entered with.

That’s part of the challenge. You have to be good at the game in order to come out positive. Dying is rightfully a punishment.

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

The rewards need tremendous improvement for the difficulty to remain what it is. You should never leave a dungeon with less than what you entered with.

That’s part of the challenge. You have to be good at the game in order to come out positive. Dying is rightfully a punishment.

You should never come out worse off than you were before unless you absolutely blew chunks the whole way. Like dying 18 times to the first boss before quitting bad. It can be difficult, yes. It can be insanely difficult, even. But the difficulty shouldn’t come from lack of forgiveness. You should be rewarded for victory, not kicked while you’re down.

Every path has it’s “own best way” to be completed. Some are complimented better by various profession utilities than others.

If you see people constantly mobile they’re doing it right. If people are trying to face tank anything… probably doing it wrong. Which makes competent melee players all the more valuable in the sea of snowflakes =)

As for the rewards it’s not as bad as Aion (kill A rank boss get grey loot or mana stone >.>;), but I’m not falling over trying to farm the dungeons ad nausem either because rewards are too good. I’d say they are probably in a good middle ground atm.

DFAnton.5304:

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

The rewards need tremendous improvement for the difficulty to remain what it is. You should never leave a dungeon with less than what you entered with.

That’s part of the challenge. You have to be good at the game in order to come out positive. Dying is rightfully a punishment.

You should never come out worse off than you were before unless you absolutely blew chunks the whole way. Like dying 18 times to the first boss before quitting bad. It can be difficult, yes. It can be insanely difficult, even. But the difficulty shouldn’t come from lack of forgiveness. You should be rewarded for victory, not kicked while you’re down.

You are rewarded for victory, with your well deserved “salvage gear”, silver, and dungeon tokens. But you’re also punished for dying constantly, and honeslty if you die so much that you come out negative with the current rewards, you deserve it.

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

The rewards need tremendous improvement for the difficulty to remain what it is. You should never leave a dungeon with less than what you entered with.

That’s part of the challenge. You have to be good at the game in order to come out positive. Dying is rightfully a punishment.

You should never come out worse off than you were before unless you absolutely blew chunks the whole way. Like dying 18 times to the first boss before quitting bad. It can be difficult, yes. It can be insanely difficult, even. But the difficulty shouldn’t come from lack of forgiveness. You should be rewarded for victory, not kicked while you’re down.

You are rewarded for victory, with your well deserved “salvage gear”, silver, and dungeon tokens. But you’re also punished for dying constantly, and honeslty if you die so much that you come out negative with the current rewards, you deserve it.

Do you happen to know what kind of psychological effect this has? It’s the difference between “I keep dying. Guess I’ll have to rethink and do better.” and “I keep dying and now I’m out a ton of money because I’m being punished. I think I’ll go play some other game.”

The death and lack of reward is enough “punishment” to make people get better. Actually punishing them for not doing well when the content is difficult is absolutely absurd.

DFAnton.5304:

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

The rewards need tremendous improvement for the difficulty to remain what it is. You should never leave a dungeon with less than what you entered with.

That’s part of the challenge. You have to be good at the game in order to come out positive. Dying is rightfully a punishment.

You should never come out worse off than you were before unless you absolutely blew chunks the whole way. Like dying 18 times to the first boss before quitting bad. It can be difficult, yes. It can be insanely difficult, even. But the difficulty shouldn’t come from lack of forgiveness. You should be rewarded for victory, not kicked while you’re down.

You are rewarded for victory, with your well deserved “salvage gear”, silver, and dungeon tokens. But you’re also punished for dying constantly, and honeslty if you die so much that you come out negative with the current rewards, you deserve it.

Do you happen to know what kind of psychological effect this has? It’s the difference between “I keep dying. Guess I’ll have to rethink and do better.” and “I keep dying and now I’m out a ton of money because I’m being punished. I think I’ll go play some other game.”

The death and lack of reward is enough “punishment” to make people get better. Actually punishing them for not doing well when the content is difficult is absolutely absurd.

The only unique thing you get from dungeons is tokens for the token gear, which isn’t required to do other content in the game. If a player can’t afford to do the dungeon then they don’t do the dungeon, there is other content in the game for them; easier content.

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

The rewards need tremendous improvement for the difficulty to remain what it is. You should never leave a dungeon with less than what you entered with.

That’s part of the challenge. You have to be good at the game in order to come out positive. Dying is rightfully a punishment.

You should never come out worse off than you were before unless you absolutely blew chunks the whole way. Like dying 18 times to the first boss before quitting bad. It can be difficult, yes. It can be insanely difficult, even. But the difficulty shouldn’t come from lack of forgiveness. You should be rewarded for victory, not kicked while you’re down.

You are rewarded for victory, with your well deserved “salvage gear”, silver, and dungeon tokens. But you’re also punished for dying constantly, and honeslty if you die so much that you come out negative with the current rewards, you deserve it.

Do you happen to know what kind of psychological effect this has? It’s the difference between “I keep dying. Guess I’ll have to rethink and do better.” and “I keep dying and now I’m out a ton of money because I’m being punished. I think I’ll go play some other game.”

The death and lack of reward is enough “punishment” to make people get better. Actually punishing them for not doing well when the content is difficult is absolutely absurd.

The only unique thing you get from dungeons is tokens for the token gear, which isn’t required to do other content in the game. If a player can’t afford to do the dungeon then they don’t do the dungeon, there is other content in the game for them; easier content.

I never suggested anywhere that the dungeons should be made easier. They should be made so that they don’t punish you. Which is not the same as making them easier! There is a tremendous canyon of difference between ease and forgiveness. “Try again!” instead of “You suck, moron!”

I do agree that the difficulty should stay, but this game has a majority of casual gamers, who will win the fight to nerf dungeons. No point in making a fuss.

+1

Dungeon difficulty is fine. Bosses are fun, its fun to avoid their attacks and figuring out strategies to beat them.

However what isn’t fun is huge hp on everything. Standing and spaming skills on mobs for 30 min just so u can get to the fun/hard part where u kill boss.

Yday we did Sorrow’s Embrace and dungeon is pretty easy. Bosses are super fun but most of the time ur killing mobs that are not hard or challenging or fun, they just have huge HP and bore the hell out of you.

DFAnton.5304:

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

The rewards need tremendous improvement for the difficulty to remain what it is. You should never leave a dungeon with less than what you entered with.

That’s part of the challenge. You have to be good at the game in order to come out positive. Dying is rightfully a punishment.

You should never come out worse off than you were before unless you absolutely blew chunks the whole way. Like dying 18 times to the first boss before quitting bad. It can be difficult, yes. It can be insanely difficult, even. But the difficulty shouldn’t come from lack of forgiveness. You should be rewarded for victory, not kicked while you’re down.

You are rewarded for victory, with your well deserved “salvage gear”, silver, and dungeon tokens. But you’re also punished for dying constantly, and honeslty if you die so much that you come out negative with the current rewards, you deserve it.

Do you happen to know what kind of psychological effect this has? It’s the difference between “I keep dying. Guess I’ll have to rethink and do better.” and “I keep dying and now I’m out a ton of money because I’m being punished. I think I’ll go play some other game.”

The death and lack of reward is enough “punishment” to make people get better. Actually punishing them for not doing well when the content is difficult is absolutely absurd.

The only unique thing you get from dungeons is tokens for the token gear, which isn’t required to do other content in the game. If a player can’t afford to do the dungeon then they don’t do the dungeon, there is other content in the game for them; easier content.

I never suggested anywhere that the dungeons should be made easier. They should be made so that they don’t punish you. Which is not the same as making them easier! There is a tremendous canyon of difference between ease and forgiveness. “Try again!” instead of “You suck, moron!”

There needs to be a penalty for failure, or else failure is meaningless. If you removed the penalty for death from dungeons and removed meat rushing so that when the group died you had to start over, it would be easier because it’s more forgiving. I don’t want the game to hold my hand, I want the game to tell me “If you want prestige and to come out with some extra pocket change, you better shape up, or else this prestige will cost you a bit more than just in game time.”

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

The rewards need tremendous improvement for the difficulty to remain what it is. You should never leave a dungeon with less than what you entered with.

That’s part of the challenge. You have to be good at the game in order to come out positive. Dying is rightfully a punishment.

You should never come out worse off than you were before unless you absolutely blew chunks the whole way. Like dying 18 times to the first boss before quitting bad. It can be difficult, yes. It can be insanely difficult, even. But the difficulty shouldn’t come from lack of forgiveness. You should be rewarded for victory, not kicked while you’re down.

You are rewarded for victory, with your well deserved “salvage gear”, silver, and dungeon tokens. But you’re also punished for dying constantly, and honeslty if you die so much that you come out negative with the current rewards, you deserve it.

Do you happen to know what kind of psychological effect this has? It’s the difference between “I keep dying. Guess I’ll have to rethink and do better.” and “I keep dying and now I’m out a ton of money because I’m being punished. I think I’ll go play some other game.”

The death and lack of reward is enough “punishment” to make people get better. Actually punishing them for not doing well when the content is difficult is absolutely absurd.

The only unique thing you get from dungeons is tokens for the token gear, which isn’t required to do other content in the game. If a player can’t afford to do the dungeon then they don’t do the dungeon, there is other content in the game for them; easier content.

I never suggested anywhere that the dungeons should be made easier. They should be made so that they don’t punish you. Which is not the same as making them easier! There is a tremendous canyon of difference between ease and forgiveness. “Try again!” instead of “You suck, moron!”

There needs to be a penalty for failure, or else failure is meaningless. If you removed the penalty for death from dungeons and removed meat rushing so that when the group died you had to start over, it would be easier because it’s more forgiving. I don’t want the game to hold my hand, I want the game to tell me “If you want prestige and to come out with some extra pocket change, you better shape up, or else this prestige will cost you a bit more than just in game time.”

Then our disagreement is fundamentally incapable of resolution.

Totally agreed. Dont nerf dungeons, Anet! Dont give in to no-skill whiners out there! But you still need to fix bugs with entering, and others.

DFAnton.5304:

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

Malthurius.6870:

DFAnton.5304:

The rewards need tremendous improvement for the difficulty to remain what it is. You should never leave a dungeon with less than what you entered with.

That’s part of the challenge. You have to be good at the game in order to come out positive. Dying is rightfully a punishment.

You should never come out worse off than you were before unless you absolutely blew chunks the whole way. Like dying 18 times to the first boss before quitting bad. It can be difficult, yes. It can be insanely difficult, even. But the difficulty shouldn’t come from lack of forgiveness. You should be rewarded for victory, not kicked while you’re down.

You are rewarded for victory, with your well deserved “salvage gear”, silver, and dungeon tokens. But you’re also punished for dying constantly, and honeslty if you die so much that you come out negative with the current rewards, you deserve it.

Do you happen to know what kind of psychological effect this has? It’s the difference between “I keep dying. Guess I’ll have to rethink and do better.” and “I keep dying and now I’m out a ton of money because I’m being punished. I think I’ll go play some other game.”

The death and lack of reward is enough “punishment” to make people get better. Actually punishing them for not doing well when the content is difficult is absolutely absurd.

The only unique thing you get from dungeons is tokens for the token gear, which isn’t required to do other content in the game. If a player can’t afford to do the dungeon then they don’t do the dungeon, there is other content in the game for them; easier content.

I never suggested anywhere that the dungeons should be made easier. They should be made so that they don’t punish you. Which is not the same as making them easier! There is a tremendous canyon of difference between ease and forgiveness. “Try again!” instead of “You suck, moron!”

There needs to be a penalty for failure, or else failure is meaningless. If you removed the penalty for death from dungeons and removed meat rushing so that when the group died you had to start over, it would be easier because it’s more forgiving. I don’t want the game to hold my hand, I want the game to tell me “If you want prestige and to come out with some extra pocket change, you better shape up, or else this prestige will cost you a bit more than just in game time.”

Then our disagreement is fundamentally incapable of resolution.

It’s a fruitless battle with the likes of him. Honestly I think it’s not necessarily the dungeon, per-say, as to the skills you are given to do the dungeon with. The skills in the game need serious reworkings. I mean, waiting 15 seconds to heal, no way to avoid damage for any amount of time that actually matters, insufficient damage, even when all members of the party spike on target… It’s ridiculous. Check out this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Improved-Combat-Skill-system/first#post64345

Spread it around if you like it.

I’ve done the dungeon with insanely good PvP players, Vets from GW1, and although it is a whole server effort, we have had 100% WvWvW control multiple times. Yet in AC we wiped so hard. I’ve been with 8 different teams, all of which have done plenty of other dungeons. And the whole dungeons was a mix of going down, WP run back, repeat. No one got past Vassar and hiss gf. I’ve spent 70 silver in repairs and gotten maybe 4 silver from loot in return. It was not enjoyable, and I honestly will never play that dungeon again. I’ve rather enjoy my game than Death Level some ghosts for an ugly piece of armor.

I went for first time last night as a guardian(healing/boon build) and I had a blast, we didn’t wipe we kill every boss, we didn’t corpse run, was great fun, but, I agree with other people they need to improve the loot from the bosses at least. I guess I was lucky because once we finished I had 2 goldens and some green on me. But asked the fellows and they looted blues =/.
I guess they need to add some kind of reward, I just tried AC story mode by the way.

I definitely agree that they should be kept how they are, however I wouldn’t mind a little bit improved rewards for running the dungeons, say from 25 tokens a run to 35 or something of the sort.

I agree, the dungeons are great as they are!

Scorpio.3821:

I do agree that the difficulty should stay, but this game has a majority of casual gamers, who will win the fight to nerf dungeons. No point in making a fuss.

I’m a casual gamer but I’m not going to be crying out for the dungeons to be nerfed. However, I do believe that they do need to be tweaked a little. For one, damage mitigation needs to be addressed. I was in AC last night with some guild members and the damage we were taking was insane. Three hits and I’d be dead, but…. saying this we did have fun trying to dodge (me unsuccessfully lol) and defeat the enemies.

However, it could have been as simple as the builds we used in the dungeon as we went in the other week with 2 rangers, 1 engineer, and 2 necros and yes we died quite a bit, but we still completed the dungeon in around an hour of starting it! Whereas, we went in last night with 2 rangers, 2 engineers, and a thief and we really really struggled! We just felt way too squishy with taking around 1000 damage per hit lol

I don’t want the difficulty taken away because it’ll be taking away the satisfaction of completing a dungeon afterwards but I would like to be able to survive a little longer than I was last night lol!

The problem isn’t that dungeons are too hard, it’s that they’re poorly balanced. In Ascalonian Catacombs, the groups I’ve run with have had more problem with the regular enemies in the corridors than the bosses themselves; we were able to take down each boss in at most two tries, but some trash pulls caused multiple wipes, and not for lack of trying. The risk should be commensurate with the stakes.

Later dungeons are somewhat better in terms of being challenging without being arbitrarily difficult, but as it is now, AC is a pretty poor introduction to dungeons that’s scared off a good handful of my guildmates from wanting to attempt later ones.

I think my main question is this… are those advocating for dungeon difficulty nerfs in this thread talking about Explorable Modes, or are they talking about Story Modes?

In my honest opinion, Story Modes really ought to be re-tweaked, so that anyone competent (casual and hardcore alike) can complete and enjoy the content for what it’s meant to be, a pathway along a storyline. Right now, even Story Modes seem to require deft acrobatics and a hardcore-player mentality to get through them.

However, Explorable Modes should NOT be nerfed, and in truth, some of them (you know which ones, since you probably have several pieces of that dungeon’s prestige gear already) should be appropriately brought more in line with the others.

Right now, Story Modes are turning a lot of people off to dungeons altogether due to their difficulty. It shouldn’t be like this. Casual players are feeling terribly cheated, and it’s causing a knee-jerk reaction from the hardcore players who think that their content (Explorable Modes) will get hit with nerfs, too.

I feel like I’m watching an election debate, and it’s not even October yet.

Cavalier.9064:

I think my main question is this… are those advocating for dungeon difficulty nerfs in this thread talking about Explorable Modes, or are they talking about Story Modes?

Story mode of course.

Neither mode needs to be nerfed.

This isn’t about casual players vs. hardcore players. This is about good players vs. bad players.

I’m a casual player. I get in maybe 2 hours of playtime every few days, because I’m in college. But I know how to watch a boss animation, and I know how to dodge. I know not to put every single one of my abilities into a damage buff to myself, I instead pick a mix of defensive and group buff abilities.

No dungeon, at any part of the game, should hand victory to the players. There are hundreds of thousands of players who are completing the content just fine. If there is a portion of the population that can’t, that’s their fault, and it’s their problem. They need to improve.

LanceHavenbay.2067:

I’ve done the dungeon with insanely good PvP players, Vets from GW1, and although it is a whole server effort, we have had 100% WvWvW control multiple times. Yet in AC we wiped so hard. I’ve been with 8 different teams, all of which have done plenty of other dungeons. And the whole dungeons was a mix of going down, WP run back, repeat. No one got past Vassar and hiss gf. I’ve spent 70 silver in repairs and gotten maybe 4 silver from loot in return. It was not enjoyable, and I honestly will never play that dungeon again. I’ve rather enjoy my game than Death Level some ghosts for an ugly piece of armor.

You realise that the wifey hubby team can be chain kd’d with the rocks right? As in they never get a chance to do anything? As in 3 on wifey to kill her slightly faster and 2 on the hubby to make sure he doesnt get close. Pick up rock throw. Pick up rock throw, wait 5 mins if using only rocks dead. Heck I wonder if that is an exploit or working as intended.

Perhaps if you didnt realise they were stronger if standing together but come on. Some one must have noticed the hearts when they got in range of each other and said something.

shaidyn.4016:

I’ve done a few dungeon runs, some successful and some not. I’ve heard a fair number of complaints, mostly on the forums, and it would be easy to say that “everybody thinks the dungeons are too hard.”

I don’t think that’s accurate. I think there are hundreds of thousands of players who are quite happily playing the dungeons as they are. And because they’re happy, they don’t feel the need to come the forums and mention it. They’re too busy having fun. The reason the majority of the posts about dungeons are complaints, is because people who are unhappy are more likely to complain about it.

The dungeons are great the way they are. You should never be assured that you will clear a dungeon when you set foot inside it. It should always be a challenge. If there’s no risk of failure, then there’s no joy in success.

Don’t bow to the pressure, Anet. The dungeons are great.

But they are to hard. We need a full healer class. I hear rumors that this Rev class could be awesome at healing. And then they won’t be so hard anymore.

Ohh you

So are Necros. Necros are great, Anet – Don’t nerf them!!!

Forum necro is OP

Talyn.3295:

shaidyn.4016:

I’ve done a few dungeon runs, some successful and some not. I’ve heard a fair number of complaints, mostly on the forums, and it would be easy to say that “everybody thinks the dungeons are too hard.”

I don’t think that’s accurate. I think there are hundreds of thousands of players who are quite happily playing the dungeons as they are. And because they’re happy, they don’t feel the need to come the forums and mention it. They’re too busy having fun. The reason the majority of the posts about dungeons are complaints, is because people who are unhappy are more likely to complain about it.

The dungeons are great the way they are. You should never be assured that you will clear a dungeon when you set foot inside it. It should always be a challenge. If there’s no risk of failure, then there’s no joy in success.

Don’t bow to the pressure, Anet. The dungeons are great.

But they are to hard. We need a full healer class. I hear rumors that this Rev class could be awesome at healing. And then they won’t be so hard anymore.

Wow, this would get the award for best necro in some time if we didn’t have one with a red post a few weeks ago.

“until the community has had a chance to formulate and standardize strategies”, 3rd post gave it away, would have been a zerk meta mention if it was recent.

How the kitten do you find these threads? It’s like a gold mine that was already emptied out, but you go on an adventure just to stare at the walls now empty of ore veins.

Jerus.4350:

Ohh you

:( here I was hoping some one would actually fall for it. Oh well better luck next time. It was funny to read through this and some other old threads when people were more worried about them being hard, then the “meta” ruining the game.

who says necros aren’t allowed in dungeons?

SlyDevil.3952:

“until the community has had a chance to formulate and standardize strategies”, 3rd post gave it away, would have been a zerk meta mention if it was recent.

How the kitten do you find these threads? It’s like a gold mine that was already emptied out, but you go on an adventure just to stare at the walls now empty of ore veins.

Yeah, that’s what we were forced to do on schooltrips.
“Kids, we’re going to see a mine!”
“Ooooh, awesome, will we see some fossils or stuff like that?!?!”
“No, they’re already been dug up and taken away, there’s nothing left… BUT we can climb down 20000 mts of gallery with filthy and slippery soil just to see some drill holes; if you’re lucky, you may even break an ankle!”
(and it did happen yes yes)