Guild Wars 2

Anyone else notice this happening?

While I admit it’s not every single run that is a walk in the park I’m starting to get faster and easier clears.

I think the most noticeable for me was on Saturday. I had a group that did all 3 AC explorables, and on the colossus path where you had to protect the extractors, our group killed the burrows so fast we were waiting for the next one to spawn. And before the event got to 90% completion they stopped spawning altogether. This even was the one I previously considered the hardest one of the bunch.

I guess once people get more adept at playing their class and better understand the dungeons we are going to start demolishing the dungeons.

It is a pretty cool thing to see though, it’s a type of progression but not one that announces itself with bigger numbers and more dps. Rather it is displayed through you and your improved ability to overcome the challenges. All in all it took that group just under an hour to complete all 3 explorables.

Ye, I’m pretty much having the same experience. Even more so when I’m playing with my guildies since we’re getting more in sync.

It’s not surprising really, aside from those few notoriously hard encounters it’s all a matter of getting into the swing of things. My guess is only a few bosses will get nerfed while new content will feature overall harder dungeons or even hard modes of the older ones.

I think harder dungeons would be very fun. I really think Anet got the no trinity system right it’s just some bosses seem a bit OP for lack of a better word, to the more uncoordinated groups.

But I can see a lot of potential for the introduction of interesting bosses that provide lots of challenge.

I think the design of the dungeons sets the challenge in learning the dungeon rather than requiring skilled play. Sometimes ArenaNet designs the game like a puzzle, once you figure it out it’s easy. Stand here, pull that, AoE here, run through that, don’t stand there, melee this fight, ranged this fight, bring this condition removal for this boss but switch to this for the next boss.

Unfortunately I think it’s a little disappointing that dungeon design seems to lean towards learning the dungeons rather than playing the game and your class skillfully. This makes dungeons very unfriendly to PuGs or new people and incredibly easy for those who have been through them a few times (or have an experienced guide and can follow simply instructions). I’d rather a game that focuses less on learning the the gimmicks and more on playing the game.

If I’m not mistaken, in another thread that was complaining about dungeon difficulty, Colin Johanson said that they didn’t want to nerf the dungeons too soon because he knew that eventually players would learn how to do them and find them much easier.

Looks like he was right. =)

How is learning the dungeon not increasing your ability to play your character. Unless you never apply all those things you describe outside of said dungeon. Learning when to use conditions and when to change to cleansing skills I would say is improvements in your ability to play your character.

What other test would you like to demonstrate ones prowess with their character? A obstacle course in lions arch?

when were dungeons hard in the first place? any group with any class players can tackle any dungeon without much difficulty with just a little bit of brain usage

learning the dungeons is the number one best way to beat them.

I never said dungeons were too hard, but they did have varying degrees of difficulty and now that difficulty has noticeably gone down from what it used to be.

Removing conditions become less about skill and more about knowledge when dungeons are designed so that you can switch out condition removal skills and equipment between fights because you know it won’t be needed any more, and switch it in when you know it will be needed. Someone who has never done the dungeon won’t know to bring (or not bring) these skills and will have a harder time, not because of a lack of skill but because of a lack of knowledge.

I was in TA yesterday and during two different encounters the party was told to stand in specific locations. We sat there for about two minutes (felt like forever) auto-attacking the boss to death while it wasn’t hitting us. I could have gone AFK (if it weren’t for the ranger longbow range bug) and beaten the boss.

Most of the difficulty of the dungeons lies in learning the tricks and not in dodging, strafing or skilled combat. I feel like the most important part of beating dungeons is whether or not you have the knowledge (which can easily have nothing to do with the game) and not skill.

That’s not knowledge of a dungeon, that’s knowledge of an exploit.

Agree with Shoots, what you did should be reported as a bug so they can fix that. It’s not how it was suppose to be done which makes it an exploit.

Yea no part of that example is what I’m talking about at all. I haven’t ever had an experience like you described. All the bosses I fight can and do hurt you and the more I play the better I get (and others get) at not only avoiding damage but applying proper conditions, like blind and weakness, and using proper boons like protection to mitigate as much damage as possible.

Swagman.9013:

Yea no part of that example is what I’m talking about at all. I haven’t ever had an experience like you described. All the bosses I fight can and do hurt you and the more I play the better I get (and others get) at not only avoiding damage but applying proper conditions, like blind and weakness, and using proper boons like protection to mitigate as much damage as possible.

To go along with what you’re saying though, that’s exactly what ANet meant when they said they were going to wait a few months for people to get use to the dungeons. Sure, the first time through with an inexperienced party you’re going to die a lot but as you start to get use to it they start getting easier and easier. No need to nerf the dungeons, people just need to unnerf their brains.

dungeon design need a solid improvement.
in randomness of mobs, in mobs design (drop that huge health pool amd make them also attack and back off like players, something like AI controlled players instead of op stats zombies).
right now, it just feels wrong, most of the time unless its a sneaky strategy, you dont know how come you won or lost.
its hard to feel rewarded for your playigng skill when they actualy barely matter.

Yeah it does get better and it really depends on the group. I hated them at first but enjoying them much more now cause the groups are better.

youll be ok once you know the dungeons by heart.
its not skill, its knowledge.

Hrmm I never really thought of it that way Avatar but I guess you are right. There really is no skill in anything whatsoever, it’s just varying degrees of knowledge. There is no skilled musicians, there are musicians with more knowledge of their instrument and song composing. There is no skilled quarterbacks, they just possess more knowledge of how the players will move on the field. There is no skilled race car drivers, they just possess the knowledge to know when to brake on what turns.

It’s a very interesting concept but when you really think about it there’s no such thing as skill. Even an artist just possesses more knowledge of how to combine colors and images to be pleasing to the eye.

Avatar.1923:

youll be ok once you know the dungeons by heart.
its not skill, its knowledge.

That’s PvE for you. No matter how complex the design is, once you learn it then it all becomes easy. Even Heroic Modes in WoW are easy once you’ve done them a few times.

Swagman.9013:

Hrmm I never really thought of it that way Avatar but I guess you are right. There really is no skill in anything whatsoever, it’s just varying degrees of knowledge. There is no skilled musicians, there are musicians with more knowledge of their instrument and song composing. There is no skilled quarterbacks, they just possess more knowledge of how the players will move on the field. There is no skilled race car drivers, they just possess the knowledge to know when to brake on what turns.

It’s a very interesting concept but when you really think about it there’s no such thing as skill. Even an artist just possesses more knowledge of how to combine colors and images to be pleasing to the eye.

cool points.

but i meant; its not like an artist with knowledge of colors… that is like you knowing your toon abilities.

its more like playing hide and seek knowing where the other is hiding.
i know knowledge is important, even in tennis, but it comes down to skill at some point.
and not necessarly just about knowing exactly what is going to happen to survive it.

I still fail to see how skill comes into play in anything, in tennis if you understand how your opponent is hitting the ball and know the way he/she is holding the racket to know which way it will most likely go, also added to your current position as well as the angle and speed that the ball was previously traveling at, then you will be able to determine where most likely the ball is headed.

All of the above are bits of data that can be learned, understood, and applied. There is no skill. A champion golfer does not have more skill at playing golf, he has more knowledge of stance, swing, grip, power vs distance and how wind affects the ball. Once again all knowledge based. No skill.

yeah, but you dont know exactly where hes going to hit the ball, and at what speed, and with what effect.
its more a reaction/coordination thing.

but anyway, i fail at dungeons so i shouldt talk about them.
i dont like them, but you do.

shake hands

Swagman.9013:

I still fail to see how skill comes into play in anything, in tennis if you understand how your opponent is hitting the ball and know the way he/she is holding the racket to know which way it will most likely go, also added to your current position as well as the angle and speed that the ball was previously traveling at, then you will be able to determine where most likely the ball is headed.

All of the above are bits of data that can be learned, understood, and applied. There is no skill. A champion golfer does not have more skill at playing golf, he has more knowledge of stance, swing, grip, power vs distance and how wind affects the ball. Once again all knowledge based. No skill.

I’ve been playing golf for 30+ years. I know how to grip a club, I understand what the spin of the ball does, I understand a closed and open face, I understand what hitting the ball up hill does, I know when you’re in a bunker you need to hit the sand first, not the ball, I understand what an open stance and a closed stance does.

That’s all “knowledge.” I have all that knowledge. That said I can guarantee I’m not going to be on CBS in a green jacket in April anytime soon.

“Skill” is the ability to apply that knowledge in a consistent manner. Be it a mental or physical manner.

Oh so your saying skill is the ability to apply learned knowledge consistently for a desirable result.

Ohhhhh

Isn’t that sorta what I was trying to say beforehand?

skill in gw2 dungeon are secondary to knowledge.

yeah it helps to know the golf course, bit many factor can still change the outcome.

a dungeon is more like doing one of those “book that you are the hero”.
oops, wrong choice of page, im dead.
next time take the other page

Dungeons are pretty trivial

I had an @level ac story pug last night where i died once due to a cave troll that spawned behind us. I kited it for awhile while the others were working on some trash mobs. I typed in “troll!” in the chat window but it took a while for them to see it. The in game communication is the standard poor.
granted it was likely the best pug i had ever been in.
I even got complimented for Ele healing.
A group of folks that knows how to work their class and group should never die in AC story.

We just did CoE and there’ve been some changes. Stealth fixes probably. I guess I should be happy, but the fact that they’re stealth fixes instead of open admittance that the dungeons are too frustrating kinda annoys me.

Swagman.9013:

There is no skilled musicians, there are musicians with more knowledge of their instrument and song composing.

If you claim that to be true then you’re not a skilled musician. There’s some brilliance that can be achieved through knowledge. However, true talent creates something without needing the knowledge.

Knowledge is just a tool to help the other 99% get by. Some people can do stuff by instinct. Or feelings. Whatever you wanna call it, it’s something that cannot be learned.

I’m pretty sure Swagman was just trying to lead the other guy to the correct conclusion that dungeons do require skill (regardless of whether it’s a little or a lot) by using absurd examples using the same wording. There’s really no need to try and address them as real claims about musicians and golfers.

I missed a whole lot of fascinating conversation.
yeah knowing how it all works is different than actually doing it.

Would it not be fun to watch or be in a group that has learned well how to work together go into one of the dungeons for the first time.

By the way, on the original topic, I think they have been actually making dungeons easier for reals, it’s not just a case of people improving. Those graveling mounds went down so much faster than the last time I tried – that doesn’t happen just from getting better, that comes from their HP being halved (and it was the HP, since they still didn’t fix the bug that stopped me hitting the kitten things half the time.) I think they may have slowly started working on nerfing the kitten HP of some of the mobs too.

Now, please give the same treatment to every. single. mob – and boss – in the zealot and plunderer routes of Honour of the Waves. Please!

Shiri.6728:

By the way, on the original topic, I think they have been actually making dungeons easier for reals, it’s not just a case of people improving. Those graveling mounds went down so much faster than the last time I tried – that doesn’t happen just from getting better, that comes from their HP being halved (and it was the HP, since they still didn’t fix the bug that stopped me hitting the kitten things half the time.) I think they may have slowly started working on nerfing the kitten HP of some of the mobs too.

Now, please give the same treatment to every. single. mob – and boss – in the zealot and plunderer routes of Honour of the Waves. Please!

I dont think they are messing with the hp. Theres a trick to the mounds expecially for melee that lets you hit them. Most people are pribally starting to figure out this trick or using it without realizing it. Reason why i say this is i’ve been in groups that just destroy the mounds and others that take so long to burn it that i think im the only one attacking it. That and people are getting better at balancing there armor to get the most out there there character instead of just going full dps or full support.