Dungeons arent Hard enough...

Dungeons arent Hard enough...

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Araditus.1526

Araditus.1526

I understand alot of people complaining in here that explorable dungeons are very difficult, trust me I died plenty of times before our guild figured it out.

I play a thief, I play a melee theif, I never die. Acrobatics with sword pistol and out heal on hit is to easy to live, with 3 targets around I heal (94×9)x3 per pistol whip, add in a bunch of stealth skills and its easy.

What im getting at is not intended to brag, but state that for each dungeon, fight, etc there is always a key to surpass and overcome the difficulty. I run with a warrior, ranger, theif, necromancer and a elementalist. We just looked at our traits, our abilities, weapon sets and types of mobs/abilities/mechanics we were facing and made a simple strat to overcome them?

My last paragraph sounds great! Adapting to the situation solving the puzzle and succeeding.

First off, bosses are easier than trash/events, when there is only 1 threat, and predictable damage going out its just zerg, and avoid this ability, every boss is the same that way.

When it came to trash it was pretty much all the same, chain CC main target with 2 melee, a hammer warrior and a s/p theif can continuously indefintiely cc a target, meanwhile blinds, and weakness goes out to off targets. It was the same thing over and over, but its trash, I understand.

What I’m getting at is, if you scale difficulty on complexe mechanics, there will unavoidable be a script, follow the script, and there is no way to lose.

How to get around this?

Reaction time abilities: have bosses do abilities that give you little time to see them coming and little time to avoid them, this requires reaction times and will add to difficulty (think Counter-Strike, noob vs pro).

Have mechanics that require you to do something other than kill the boss or adds. Think of heroic plaguewing last fight, multiple target switching, and position is key, or heroic bloodwing final fight, had to match up and pass on your virus, mechanics like this are not too bad with healers and the like, however without them, they become wipers which is good, wiping is good. Things like this are never static, mechanics like, onyxia goes into air phase at 60% is not difficult.

Perhaps during a fight a chalice pops up in a random spot and you have to get it to the altar every second the chalice is out of the alter the boss gains a huge buff per second its out. A mechanic like this is good for a game without healers becuase it forces WHOEVER is closest to the chalice, not a predictable spot, and forces them to do one thing, that makes the fight 4v5 for a bit, increasing difficulty, and since boss is buffed, more skill required to avoid damage.

Unpredictability, yet doable is real difficulty, you need to do something in each fight that the player cant predict and has to overcome on the spot, this is rewarding to those seeking a challenge. Since there is no real aggro, tank, healer in this game, this is a perfect platform to try out these types of mechanics.

Don’t allow corpse running, put a door in boss fights, add an enrage timer, not a wipe enrage but a “you pretty much have 60 seconds to win or this damage output become truely hard”

I know none of this will ever happen in this game, the purpose of this post is to shed light on what difficulty really is. XY mechanics are scriptable, predictable and easy.

You can’t just add chaos to increase difficulty, just makes smart players sacrifice damage for CC, and thats all I really see in good dungeon play, none of our abilites, or build are for damage, or defense for that matter, its all about control, sustain, and buffed revives.

Hope you enjoy reading my post and picking it apart for all its faults, I hope you see what I’m trying to say.

ps. Let be honest, as PvP of a game this is (which its really great excpet for downed state, that should be gone from pvp, but not pve, wvw) PvE has to be around, or people WILL get bored.

(edited by Araditus.1526)

Dungeons arent Hard enough...

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Posted by: Apathy.6430

Apathy.6430

Curious, have you done CoE exp with the teleporter path?

That’s the only thing I’ve hit in the game that seems absolutely insurmountable.

Dungeons arent Hard enough...

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Posted by: Araditus.1526

Araditus.1526

Curious, have you done CoE exp with the teleporter path?

That’s the only thing I’ve hit in the game that seems absolutely insurmountable.

Yes we have, I don’t like admitting this publicly, but my crew of 5 are extreme no lifers with serious LCD tans, we have played at least 8 hours a day since launch. I would put up teleporter path right up there with what im talking about, thanks for the good example.

Dungeons arent Hard enough...

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Posted by: Apathy.6430

Apathy.6430

Curious, have you done CoE exp with the teleporter path?

That’s the only thing I’ve hit in the game that seems absolutely insurmountable.

Yes we have, I don’t like admitting this publicly, but my crew of 5 are extreme no lifers with serious LCD tans, we have played at least 8 hours a day since launch. I would put up teleporter path right up there with what im talking about, thanks for the good example.

Yeah, I don’t know how it would go with a well coordinated team.

My team was really bad at getting out of the AoE, and killing the crystal. So we wiped. A lot. Then we called it a night.

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Posted by: Cad.3674

Cad.3674

I’m going to agree that dungeons are too easy.

When someone can solo 2 of the bosses in the level 80 explorable mode dungeon for 8 shards it’s too easy.

Dungeons arent Hard enough...

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Posted by: Araditus.1526

Araditus.1526

Curious, have you done CoE exp with the teleporter path?

That’s the only thing I’ve hit in the game that seems absolutely insurmountable.

Yes we have, I don’t like admitting this publicly, but my crew of 5 are extreme no lifers with serious LCD tans, we have played at least 8 hours a day since launch. I would put up teleporter path right up there with what im talking about, thanks for the good example.

Yeah, I don’t know how it would go with a well coordinated team.

My team was really bad at getting out of the AoE, and killing the crystal. So we wiped. A lot. Then we called it a night.

But I imagine when you do beat it, you will feel great!!! One of the better feelings was our first night around lvl 37-38 we did AC Explore and did the ghost path, man, figureing out how to beat the multiple grovel rising to protect the 2 essence collectors was really, hard, we dont like looking at guide and cheating lol,

It felt great when we figured it out, but I will say this, when we DID figure it out, it was SOOO easy, we didnt even see we got to 100% becuase it never got out of hand, I’m sure if in one of the fights i was kiting 2 breeders and 100 whelps with my short bow and won that would have been epic. But alas we figured it out, and can do it with eyes closed, becuase the hovels spawn in the same place everytime, once we had that figured out it was a joke…….

Dungeons arent Hard enough...

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Posted by: Apathy.6430

Apathy.6430

Curious, have you done CoE exp with the teleporter path?

That’s the only thing I’ve hit in the game that seems absolutely insurmountable.

Yes we have, I don’t like admitting this publicly, but my crew of 5 are extreme no lifers with serious LCD tans, we have played at least 8 hours a day since launch. I would put up teleporter path right up there with what im talking about, thanks for the good example.

Yeah, I don’t know how it would go with a well coordinated team.

My team was really bad at getting out of the AoE, and killing the crystal. So we wiped. A lot. Then we called it a night.

But I imagine when you do beat it, you will feel great!!! One of the better feelings was our first night around lvl 37-38 we did AC Explore and did the ghost path, man, figureing out how to beat the multiple grovel rising to protect the 2 essence collectors was really, hard, we dont like looking at guide and cheating lol,

It felt great when we figured it out, but I will say this, when we DID figure it out, it was SOOO easy, we didnt even see we got to 100% becuase it never got out of hand, I’m sure if in one of the fights i was kiting 2 breeders and 100 whelps with my short bow and won that would have been epic. But alas we figured it out, and can do it with eyes closed, becuase the hovels spawn in the same place everytime, once we had that figured out it was a joke…….

When we did the Howling King path, it was quite the relief.

The graveling mounds…god that’s insane. Me and another person kiting around a breeder, 2 scavengers, and a gazillion babies while the other three killed the burrows. Took us multiple tries to get it right, but definitely a sigh of relief finishing it.

Dungeons arent Hard enough...

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Posted by: cytomatrix.5702

cytomatrix.5702

A lot of words from someone who hides behind shadows and stab people in the back. Not everyone plays a thief. On a serious note, some people have a life outside guildwars 2 and dont have the company of elite players.

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Posted by: Apathy.6430

Apathy.6430

A lot of words from someone who hides behind shadows and stab people in the back. Not everyone plays a thief. On a serious note, some people have a life outside guildwars 2 and dont have the company of elite players.

Hint: You can “have a life outside of guild wars” (oh, and you aren’t fooling anyone with that tired line) and still not be godawful at the game.

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Posted by: DKP.4196

DKP.4196

Agreed, some dungeon boss’s could be fixed so they are actually harder than the random mobs.

Keep trying, or die trying. Never give up, never forgive. We will Desolate. – Desolation
Not A Message.

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Posted by: Rainer Fenixhart.1357

Rainer Fenixhart.1357

I like how there are people who are either terrrible or Good when it comes to these discussions.

It’s like there’s no midway or anything.

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Posted by: Xista.7391

Xista.7391

They need to do-away with waypoint zerging and put more damage into mechanics of the fight, and take away damage from simple melee attacks. Do it in a way that promotes strategy, and not “wtf just 1 shot me?”.

Simple example is the boss that chain grips in AC explorable. The grip is a good mechanic. It’s pass or fail. But the boss hits considerably hard on just melee attacks. The dodging the grip + one other mechanic would make for a good encounter.

In-game opinions of Skyhammer: http://i.imgur.com/FKymDjC.jpg

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Posted by: Kamahl.3621

Kamahl.3621

There’s actually a ‘door’ on like, most of the boss fights in Arah. The hard ones, anywho: Giganticus Lupicus has a ~2 minute run in 3/4 of the explorable modes from the nearest waypoint (even longer in the Jotun route). The pirate boss in Arah (Is that what he is?) sets up a wall. The Jotun route’s final boss sets up a flame barrier (like the one the female necromancer set up in AC Story, except it instakills you).

Dungeons arent Hard enough...

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Posted by: kulle.6542

kulle.6542

DKP and araditcus, once MOP comes out, ull have no one to show your 1337 armor off to since everyone will be back playing wow. hope its worth it. ill give u guys a golf clap for beating these alpha stage dungeons… these dungeons aren’t even in beta.

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Posted by: Apathy.6430

Apathy.6430

DKP and araditcus, once MOP comes out, ull have no one to show your 1337 armor off to since everyone will be back playing wow. hope its worth it. ill give u guys a golf clap for beating these alpha stage dungeons… these dungeons aren’t even in beta.

Good, I hope they do go back to WoW, an hopefully take you with them.

The flat out refusals to learn how to play from people like you is getting to be pretty stale.

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Posted by: kulle.6542

kulle.6542

apathy, umadbro?

and ofc im going back to wow, wasn’t going to, but at least they test their dungeons/raids.

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Posted by: Apathy.6430

Apathy.6430

how can dodge???

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Posted by: Andele.1306

Andele.1306

Most bosses – buffed and each getting a instakill with a clear taunt
All trash ever – massive nerfs to all (a small spider shouldnt have enough hp to need lich form to solo kill and risen elementalists aoe instakill a ranger, enie and not only remove a 95% life force DS, but reduce my necro to half hp after it with 4 instant spamming spinning green blade attack thingy for no reason whatsoever.

When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.

Dungeons arent Hard enough...

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Posted by: cytomatrix.5702

cytomatrix.5702

A lot of words from someone who hides behind shadows and stab people in the back. Not everyone plays a thief. On a serious note, some people have a life outside guildwars 2 and dont have the company of elite players.

Hint: You can “have a life outside of guild wars” (oh, and you aren’t fooling anyone with that tired line) and still not be godawful at the game.

There is a difference between being good at the game and having the time to grind. Dungeons right now is just a massive grind. PvP is more challenging and rewarding. None of my guildmates and people I have met so far, want to do dungeons because of this. I really don’t see a guild full of elitist, hardcore players accepting a casual player like me.

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Posted by: Apathy.6430

Apathy.6430

Dungeons right now is just a massive grind.

Um, no they aren’t.

They take an hour tops with people that have any clue what they are doing.

You might not get the purely optional cosmetic gear within the next 6 months. Poor you. That doesn’t make it a grind. That makes it something that you just put a bit of time towards whenever you feel like it. Don’t feel like it? Don’t do it. It doesn’t matter if you get the purely optional cosmetic gear by this coming Sunday or you get it a year from now. It gives you something to work towards.