Guild Wars 2

Like the title says, the dungeons currently encourage players to play them while taking off all their armor. Many of the dungeons contain challenges that are so gimmicky and trial and error, that players are better off removing all armor pieces to prevent them from being damaged in their many tries to get through.

I do not understand why this is designed this way. Its not fun, because it punished players for attempting the dungeon. It punished them by taking their money. It woudn’t be so bad, if the challenges themselves were fun, or if there weren’t the most ludicrous armor repair costs involved.

Players usually enjoy attempting a challenge. They don’t enjoy it if every attempt costs them (a lot of) money, and the challenge itself isn’t that much fun either.

Are we expected to try and try again completely naked until we pass an obstacle?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not venting my anger because it is too hard.

IT IS NOT TOO DIFFICULT!

But it discourages players to have fun, and it discourages to practice at all. And that I am very angry about. Currently I see no reason to ever do a dungeon ever again, and I used to love doing dungeons in other MMO’s.

Am I angry because the game challenges me? No, of course not. What I’m angry about is having to try and recharge a stupid golem suit through a tunnel in Arah filled with insta-kill spiders in the most gimmicky way possible, while trying to keep everyone inside the field and it recharged at all times with all the lag going around, and then get one player to also activate the party speed boost in time. How many fails does it take before the party realises, this is not fun, and not worth the effort?

And what would my reward be after making it through gimmicky-tunnel? Probably another gimmicky obstacle that requires trial and error. I do not enjoy trial and error!

it’s not just dungeons, you can apply this to anywhere but SPvP, i can absolutely 100% say that WvW would be more fun without repair bills, because you wouldnt have to worry about not running around with the zerg.

sadly Repair bills are a goldsink and are an important part of the game in removing gold from players much like many other gold sinks in this game.

when your finally good at dungeons, you wont need to worry about repair bills.

I just don’t understand how the design team can justify the not-fun factor. I’ve been part of so many lovely groups, many very patient and fun people. Only to have the run end in everyone being bitter, angry and frustrated at having wasted so much time and money on the dungeon. Its absolutely dreadful.

I’ve even been in groups that succeeded, sometimes after several deaths, sometimes without a hitch. But none of them were enjoying rides. So many obstacles where you scratch your head and think, I might aswell try this naked.

Players should not be punished for trying or practicing. This sort of design encourages everyone to look the dungeon up on the wiki.

Going to boil this down w/o the rant.

Remove repair bill on “trap” area’s. – That’s basically your point right? If so I agree.

People on these forums just like to complain. Out of control repair bills? Nah, if you don’t die you don’t have to worry about it. All these “non-fun, trial and error dungeon parts” you talk of aren’t that big of a deal. Every game has trial and error parts and during said parts you’re pretty much expected to die figuring it out. If you continue to die because you/your team can’t figure it out or is too incompetent to complete it then shame on you.

ok so why dont you try running the dungeons with less than 3 heavy classes and let me tell you on my engineer i take aggro from the best of them and i cant tank only evade and that doest work when mobs can perma stun/daze or root you in a game where every 1 sec can mean death being stunned/dazed or rooted for mor than 3-7 secs is rediculous and even though i get 2 things that can crear the conditions because mobs have no cool downs the root/daze or stun you instantly after clear the contition and if you run a group with less than 2-3 heavys theres gonna be alot of death and the dungeons arent fun ive gottin to 80 and got 100% of the map cleared and ive tryed every possible combo of sigils/runes/trait setup and spell combos and there are still classes i cant compete with witch is why im asking for a refund plz gw2 give my money back your games dungeons are horride.

shoshu.7416:

ok so why dont you try running the dungeons with less than 3 heavy classes and let me tell you on my engineer i take aggro from the best of them and i cant tank only evade and that doest work when mobs can perma stun/daze or root you in a game where every 1 sec can mean death being stunned/dazed or rooted for mor than 3-7 secs is rediculous and even though i get 2 things that can crear the conditions because mobs have no cool downs the root/daze or stun you instantly after clear the contition and if you run a group with less than 2-3 heavys theres gonna be alot of death and the dungeons arent fun ive gottin to 80 and got 100% of the map cleared and ive tryed every possible combo of sigils/runes/trait setup and spell combos and there are still classes i cant compete with witch is why im asking for a refund plz gw2 give my money back your games dungeons are horride.

I normally don’t post on the forums but I cannot even begin to describe the horrible grammar in that whole post. I see 1 “period” in that whole paragraph of a rant. Did you even re-read what you wrote or even go to school?

On a side note, dungeons are fine. I like these “obstacles” cause it’s a change of pace from see boss, kill boss, get loot. If these obstacles frustrate you, then simply don’t attempt them. Not everything is for everyone. People need to stop speaking as if everything should be by “their” standards and not by the developer’s standards.

Ich muss was posten um hier quoten zu können, als darf der Text ruhig auch auf Detusch sein

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Am I angry because the game challenges me? No, of course not. What I’m angry about is having to try and recharge a stupid golem suit through a tunnel in Arah filled with insta-kill spiders in the most gimmicky way possible, while trying to keep everyone inside the field and it recharged at all times with all the lag going around, and then get one player to also activate the party speed boost in time. How many fails does it take before the party realises, this is not fun, and not worth the effort?

This part is very easy, all you need is
1. 5 people that are not 24-carat idiots
2. a golem pilot that can post 1, 2 and 3 in /p and is able to repeat that while moving

If one of this is missing, just ask a Necro to do it alone, he can reach the waypont and all of you can just teleport there.

Dungeons don’t encourage players to do them naked but the require them to think about what they are going to do and sometimes it really helps to listen to what the NPCs tell you.

shoshu.7416:

ok so why dont you try running the dungeons with less than 3 heavy classes and let me tell you on my engineer i take aggro from the best of them and i cant tank only evade and that doest work when mobs can perma stun/daze or root you in a game where every 1 sec can mean death being stunned/dazed or rooted for mor than 3-7 secs is rediculous and even though i get 2 things that can crear the conditions because mobs have no cool downs the root/daze or stun you instantly after clear the contition and if you run a group with less than 2-3 heavys theres gonna be alot of death and the dungeons arent fun ive gottin to 80 and got 100% of the map cleared and ive tryed every possible combo of sigils/runes/trait setup and spell combos and there are still classes i cant compete with witch is why im asking for a refund plz gw2 give my money back your games dungeons are horride.

Please tell me you didn’t graduate any sort of schooling because if you did, your teachers should be slaughtered for passing you. Secondly, my guildmates and I run dungeons with only one heavy. Me. We’ve got an assortment of thieves, ele, mesmers, and rangers that run to fill the other slots. Its not all about standing there and taking all the damage or attempting to deal a ton before dying. Glass cannons don’t work here. If you get a good team, who plays well together, who have builds that compliment each other then dungeons are fun and rewarding (especially Arah explore). Do we wipe on occasion? Sure, once in a while we get overwhelmed or we get lag. Who cares?

Dead.7385:

Going to boil this down w/o the rant.

Remove repair bill on “trap” area’s. – That’s basically your point right? If so I agree.

ya boom. this guy knows what’s up. whatever the OP was saying, this is better.

AC traps!!! no bueno.

shoshu.7416:

ok so why dont you try running the dungeons with less than 3 heavy classes

I’ve ran all 3 paths of TA with all scholars classes, all 3 paths of AC with all scholar classes and so far 1 path of HotW with all scholar classes. Honestly, the 3 TA runs were the easiest TA runs I had ever done and the AC and HotW runs were about the same as if we had heavy armor characters.

Oh, and these were all PUG groups.

Only replying to this part, as it is honestly painful attempting to read the rest of that post.

pretty much. time consuming silver sinks for meh drops and worthless tokens for gear no better than what you can buy off TP or craft (exotic level).

nailed it Queen and icecat.

I have arthritis in my hands and will never be as good at the manual dexterity challenges like the death swarms in TA and laser security field in CoE as someone who does not. I’ve run these several times each with guild members, and have not yet been able to pass them as others get through before I can, and turn them off.

I do indeed take armor off to do them, as armor does nothing to help and I’d rather not spend the silver on a learning process that I may never have the chance to master.

I figured it out easily before any guides came out after seeing the absurd amounts of monsters, the suit and the rechargers scattered ahead and did it in 3 tries with guildies.
Equally, being the adept thinker, I figured out the locust/grub spawn mechanics and formulated the bot formation into scatter approach with lupicus after the first wipe. Then 5 tries after that due to possibly being only geared with greens at that time we finally survived long enough past phase 2 triumph over giganticus.

Sure we all came out negative at the end of the day but this day I still feel proud for figuring those mechanics out first-hand and I’m sure that feeling of awesomeness is what Anet wants players to feel.

I also did the golem puzzle in 4 tries with a complete PuG. If you noticed, if the golem is charged, there would be a lightning bolt icon on it when you select the golem user. All you have to do is shoot the recharger to keep the icon up. Simple as that.

Anet’s dungeons aren’t like other MMO dungeons in this particular approach. Dungeons are meant to be like trial and error filled an I doubt Anet would change that. I hope they don’t. In fact, I’d prefer if there were MORE of these puzzles.

I do agree repair costs could be toned down abit traps specifically though but obviously still kept high for graveyard zergers. The high repair costs are meant to make you think and assess about what went wrong and how you can approach things differently and encourages coordination and communication.

The problem I see here though, is that it doesn’t make sense to practice these challenges with your armor on. Because 90% of the time the challenge itself does not rely on armor at all, and includes some sort of gimmick that instantly kills your character if you get it wrong. Take for example, the insta-kill blossoms in TA, or the insta-kill bees in TA, or the golem suit through the cave of invincible insta-kill spiders in Arah, or the boss in TA with the swarms of exploding insta-kill nightmares. Seeing a problem here?

Why would you attempt these “challenges” (read: gimmicks) with your armor on?!

Further more, if this doesn’t instantly encourage players to look it up on the wiki, I don’t know what does. And thats bad!

The dungeons are mainly just designed as a gold sink with the tokens at the end as extra. Everything leading up to get the tokens is just the line in the DMV.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Like the title says, the dungeons currently encourage players to play them while taking off all their armor. Many of the dungeons contain challenges that are so gimmicky and trial and error, that players are better off removing all armor pieces to prevent them from being damaged in their many tries to get through.

I do not understand why this is designed this way. Its not fun, because it punished players for attempting the dungeon. It punished them by taking their money. It woudn’t be so bad, if the challenges themselves were fun, or if there weren’t the most ludicrous armor repair costs involved.

Players usually enjoy attempting a challenge. They don’t enjoy it if every attempt costs them (a lot of) money, and the challenge itself isn’t that much fun either.

Are we expected to try and try again completely naked until we pass an obstacle?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not venting my anger because it is too hard.

IT IS NOT TOO DIFFICULT!

But it discourages players to have fun, and it discourages to practice at all. And that I am very angry about. Currently I see no reason to ever do a dungeon ever again, and I used to love doing dungeons in other MMO’s.

Am I angry because the game challenges me? No, of course not. What I’m angry about is having to try and recharge a stupid golem suit through a tunnel in Arah filled with insta-kill spiders in the most gimmicky way possible, while trying to keep everyone inside the field and it recharged at all times with all the lag going around, and then get one player to also activate the party speed boost in time. How many fails does it take before the party realises, this is not fun, and not worth the effort?

And what would my reward be after making it through gimmicky-tunnel? Probably another gimmicky obstacle that requires trial and error. I do not enjoy trial and error!

Run AC…Every boss drops 5s and their chest and the last boss drops 15s.

“the insta-kill blossoms in TA”

There is no such thing as instant kill blossoms in TA.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The problem I see here though, is that it doesn’t make sense to practice these challenges with your armor on. Because 90% of the time the challenge itself does not rely on armor at all, and includes some sort of gimmick that instantly kills your character if you get it wrong. Take for example, the insta-kill blossoms in TA, or the insta-kill bees in TA, or the golem suit through the cave of invincible insta-kill spiders in Arah, or the boss in TA with the swarms of exploding insta-kill nightmares. Seeing a problem here?

Why would you attempt these “challenges” (read: gimmicks) with your armor on?!

Further more, if this doesn’t instantly encourage players to look it up on the wiki, I don’t know what does. And thats bad!

There isn’t insta-kill blossoms, bees, or nightmares in TA. My guild runs these just fine, no wipes, the occasionally down but they almost always rally. Its all about team work and knowing how each other is going to play. I play warrior and so goes my buddy, when we team together we always use shout/heal build and use it to compliment each other while we’re in melee range. He uses his 3, then I, then he and you get the picture. We can pretty much keep ourselves alive without having to use the healing skill very often and with a necro who pulls all the conditions off us we don’t have much to worry about.

There is already code in place so that falling to your death does not cause armor damage if you are out of combat. Extend that code to dungeon hazards. Removing armor is tedious.

Having done all explorable routes except for Arah, and done them more than once, i can’t agree with the OP that it’s about trial and error.
CoF1 corridor? Sorry, but it’s pretty easy if you watch the rolling rocks, even without cheesy skills like Lightning Flash.
CoE laser puzzle? A bit more demanding, still pretty easy.

I never take my armor off for those, and i never feel upset if i have to repair my armor afterwards if i made a mistake when jumping – that’s how it was designed and should be. My mistake – my repair costs.
The obvious solution is to practice jumping outside of those dungeons and get better at feeling jumps with your character, so that those puzzle parts aren’t painful but actually enjoyable, as i find them

I can’t speak for Arah or some other parts, but really, some of these “puzzle” parts aren’t difficult at all. You just need to pay attention. They have patterns.

CoF rocks: time it right. No trial or error needed. I don’t even remove my armour at all for this.
CoE lasers: lasers stop periodically at your side, about 2 jumps in. You follow the lasers as they travel back to the other side and you have a window to get through. Also, turn the camera sideways and strafe-jump as if you’re playing a 2D platformer. Easy.

It would be nice if we could use tokens to repair armor

Overlord Falcor.6014:

There isn’t insta-kill blossoms, bees, or nightmares in TA.

The blossoms that are all over TA, and instantly down a player, or outright kill you if more than one explodes?

The bridge in one of the TA explorable paths that has swarms of bees that instantly kill you if they see you, so you have to apply invisibility nectar and make it past various water geysers without them hitting you or you instantly die? (and then have to respawn at the start of the dungeon and run through half of it to try again)

The boss in TA story mode that summons swamrs of nightmares, each one of which explodes in a deadly cloud of gas?

I don’t want to attack you, but TA is really really easy, and i see the blossoms like a “insta rally” i’d love to have blossoms in arah.

CoF corridor: Portal, blink, portal gg.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Overlord Falcor.6014:

There isn’t insta-kill blossoms, bees, or nightmares in TA.

The blossoms that are all over TA, and instantly down a player, or outright kill you if more than one explodes?

The bridge in one of the TA explorable paths that has swarms of bees that instantly kill you if they see you, so you have to apply invisibility nectar and make it past various water geysers without them hitting you or you instantly die? (and then have to respawn at the start of the dungeon and run through half of it to try again)

The boss in TA story mode that summons swamrs of nightmares, each one of which explodes in a deadly cloud of gas?

Don’t know which game you’re playing, but none of those are instant kills. There’s enough time to react and not die to each of these hazards even if you get caught.