Dungeons favor Kite and Smite playstyles

Dungeons favor Kite and Smite playstyles

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: lordhelmos.7623

lordhelmos.7623

Just wanted to open up this discussion because dungeons seem to favor the “kite and smite” kind of gameplay.

In most of the dungeons that I have been in, many standard melee based enemies hit INCREDIBLY hard with their abilities. Any class without full toughness of vitality stacked on their gear is going to be one shot.

This is most evidenced against thief players who stack a ton of rampager and “damage” stat gear. Most of the time, I see thieves with classic damage setups spend 90% of their time faceplanted and kissing the floor.

The current best form of mitigation against mobs, is simply to not get hit by kiting and dodging when they get close. This heavily favors ranged playstyles. Just about any sane dungeon player current has a build that is either fully ranged or ambidextrous between ranged and melee.

Also when playing melee, mobs tend to have very difficult tells for 1 hit kill attacks. This is namely because huge particle effects and hit animations on mobs cover up mob tells. This can be seen in Howling King path of AC, where players are frantically trying to burn down breeders and nests and can barely see the charge up and one shot lunges from the scavengers.

Melee players can’t see anything at all in that mess, and will usually die.

Additional factors include mobs that have targeted AoE attacks. When there are multiple melee in the group, mobs tend to place overlapping circles on the melee. Even if you dodge roll from one attack, you can land right into a circle targeted on another melee player.

This is evidenced by Test Subject Alpha in CoE, where he plants huge amounts of AoE circles on players. In my experience, my spec involves a sword mesmer. This results in the boss with several of my images next to him, melee players, and me. This causes him to consistently drop AoE circles in an undependable pattern around himself, making it a melee death trap for any player who is insane enough to go near him.

Ultimately these mechanics, for the most part make melee not really worth it.

Normally, in groups that die the least, I see the following trends:

-Experienced players stack heavy amounts of toughness and vitality in order to survive targeted mob strikes (like those from Ascalonian archers). Any class that builds “glass cannon” usually spends most of their time dead and contributes very little to the group, become a danger to other people who try to res them. At most, a normal ranged mob can kill a glass cannon player in 4-hits. When there are multiple ranged mobs, a glass cannon player can be killed near instantly from focus fire. It is unrealistic for this kind of player to dodge EVERY attack. Thieves that jump into melee with high damage gear and little defense have an even larger death ratio, causing some groups to flat out not invite them, or force them to use a shortbow.

-Dungeons favor builds that can cripple, kite, or otherwise debilitate mob movement and shoot them while on the run. This includes clone mesmers, engineers with supply drop and net guns, elementalists with support builds, and etc. Most classes, even those specced heavily into survival, cannot face tank the damage a standard melee mob can output. Multiple melee mobs result in death. For the most part, I find myself using my mesmer staff the most and only swapping to my sword to finish off foes or to take damage advantage of time warp. I found that generally there are less windows for melee favorability, especially when multiple mobs with crushing melee attacks are stacked. Melee is usually the first to die.

-As stated above, kiting and dodging is the single best method of damage mitigation. This compels players to run smite and kite and focus ranged mobs with targeted high damage attacks first. This is why you see people screaming to kill eles, necros, and rangers first in AC explore. This applies to nearly every dungeon.

-Also as stated above “pure damage” type characters with very little vitality or toughness is very detrimental to the group UNLESS placed in the hands of an extremely skilled player that can take full advantage of CCs and dodge perfectly. Even then they will still die from a stay shot or two.

-Thieves seem to have the hardest time in dungeons unless using the shortbow due to their advanced dodge mechanics and the mindset of many thief players to run melee builds without stacking defensive stats. Most thieves I see are simply lemmings that require constant rallies.

Dungeons favor Kite and Smite playstyles

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: CF Skyy.4082

CF Skyy.4082

On behalf of all thieves:

We’re not the only ones that are squishy as kittens if we build damage and herpkittenin melee. That’s any class, if you come across trash players there is only one solution: Don’t play with them.

That aside, the whole thing of favoring range in most encounters of an MMO isn’t exactly new. I don’t like the trend, since I don’t like playing ranged characters, but IF I absolutely MUST, I will range.

I can’t really say anything about AC, since I’ve only done a partial story run before it fell apart(in the first couple days of release mind you), and came in just after a split in explorable mode. I don’t really intend to go back in and do it again because I don’t like the mechanics of the dungeon, and the gear looks horrible. What I can say is that I ranged the Knight with the pull and spin oneshot combo and then proceeded to melee the rest of the dungeon without issue(having never done this route before, and it being my first time in an AC Exp, if that wasn’t clear).

The thing that everyone should take away from encounters that don’t favor melee(such as the first boss in TA), is that dead dps = 0 dps. Jousting(that is, getting the kitten outta the way when you have to and then getting back to work) is essential. If you have more than one melee and there is going to be BadStuff going all over the place, it’s probably not the best idea to roll into another player if you can help it. If you can get away with simply rolling backwards and then using a gap closer to get back into range you should, and from my experience, this works well with most encounters unless you somehow managed tokitten off a mob by talking about their terminally ill mother.

Also, while the “trinity” isn’t there, that doesn’t mean that some professions don’t do certain things better than others. Yes, thief has a vit and a toughness tree, but that doesn’t mean that I’m able to tank or heal(out vit tree is our heal tree) as well as say…a Guardian(in both respects). Be smart about your group composition, even while PUGing.

Dungeons favor Kite and Smite playstyles

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Kira Farcry.8436

Kira Farcry.8436

I personally run a warrior with a mace and a shield and I purposely run up to melee range in dungeons and draw aggro away from my teammates. Plenty of times I’ve had thieves run up while I’m tanking and being to do damage close up. If I see them getting low I bust out my shouts which heal for 1.5k health each.

Just because the holy trinity is technically gone and every class can play every role doesn’t mean that every class should. It’s typically a good strategy to have at least one tank, and squishery classes like thieves and elementalists shouldn’t be taking the brunt of the attack. If you pull aggro correctly, there shouldn’t be any problem with having a squishy team with one tank. Also with range vs melee, the game itself is built to be very mobile. A class shouldn’t just stick to melee or just range, but should be constantly switching. A thief can jump in, do a quick burst, and jump back out while his initiative resets. If he took hits, he can recover with invisibility, or have someone else heal him up before jumping back in the fray.

Dungeons are hard, but if you have good people it can be really easy. I’ve got full TA armor, and I can’t tell you how many times I had a super tanky team and we would constantly get wiped because the other players didn’t know how to play their roles effectively. On the flip side, I had a team of a warrior, ele, engi, necro and thief, and we cleared the dungeon without a single wipe simply because we were experienced players who knew what we were doing and supported each other when things got tough. Skill matters, and if you’re good it shouldn’t matter what class you play. I’ve seen guardians be gods among men, and other times they are the worst players on the team. Knowledge of the class and the dungeon play important roles.

Elegance in simplicity; Beauty in design.

(edited by Kira Farcry.8436)