Guild Wars 2

This is something that i have been thinking about for a while. It seems like pretty much every boss encounter is easier if the whole team switch to ranged weapons. You might not deal as much dmg, but it is definitely much safer and therefore preferred in PUGS.
There are a few reasons for this.
Bosses are almost always permanently crippled or chilled, and will therefore strike the nearest target which is the melee player. If everyone had ranged, it would be much easier to avoid their auto-attacks (that is, if the boss is not ranged).
A lot of boss mechanics are also only a threat to players in close range.
Take Fractals Of The Mists as an example.

1. The Svanir boss will use a freezing breath that you can avoid by going into ranged.
2. The huge ice elemental requires you to constantly get the warmth at campfires, and they are all in ranged distance.
3. The lava shaman is using deadly AoE attacks that surround himself, and the arrow that gives agony will hit you almost immediately if you’re melee. (Making it difficult to dodge.) Keep in mind that i’m not saying melee is impossible, but that ranged is easier at least for unexperienced players.
4. Captain Ashym in the ascalonian fractal gives agony that can be avoided by being ranged, as the range is shorter than the player range. This is also the case in the “Hammer Fractal” (in a lack of a better description), where the agony can be avoided by being ranged (last encounter)
5. The poison and agony Bloomhunger uses in the swampland fractal are much easier to avoid in ranged as well. This is due to the fact that the mechanic is using projectiles, giving ranged more time to dodge. (Same as the Lava Shaman)
6. The Dredge Powersuit requires you to lure him into the lava, which is not possible in melee if you want to keep a consistent damage over time. I do however like this concept and mechanic, sometimes its nice to have a secondary mechanic to a boss encounter.

These a just a few examples from FoTM, but there are plenty of other examples in normal dungeons as well.
If i were to just mention one quickly, The Nightmare Tree path Up/Up is a good example. If you go ranged in that fight, you will be able to do the laundry meanwhile.

The way the aggro system works atm also seems to favour ranged. I think a lot of bosses tend to go for the guy with the most armor or toughness, which in a lot of cases is the melee character. IF the boss chooses to go for one of the ranged players, he is usually almost permanently crippled and is easily kited.

I’d say that at least 80% of PUGs are almost fully ranged. This is a problem because no one wants to the only melee guy, if you’re the only one going melee you will be rendered very vulnerable. And it can get pretty boring from time to time, just kiting the boss around.

I do however want to give a huge thank you for the latest fix regarding boss encounters. I’m talking about the invulnerability a boss gets if he can’t reach his targets. This has really helped.
This post is merely an attempt to raise awareness of this problem. I hope you will see this and consider it for the next boss encounters you design (or revamp). I’m also interested in hearing if anyone feels the same way.

Thanks.

All I can say is, when you get better, and play with better people, you’ll realize how silly this post is.

It’s always good to bring a range weapon and swap out for it.

I’m really only posting to say,

Bloom is actually easier at melee range, this coming from an ele.

I agree with almost everything. Ranged is easier on most bosses/dungeons. As effective/fast? No, but defiantly easier. On high level fractals its hard to consistently melee things, I can melee some but I always have ranged to fall back on.

Kirbyprime.2645:

I’m really only posting to say,

Bloom is actually easier at melee range, this coming from an ele.

How? My guardian (Suppsoedly the most survivable class) dies to it at like 15+. In 10, I have a 50/50 chance of melee not killing me.

If you only run pugs then you’re right, it’s hard to stay in melee when everyone else is ranged and not tossing around much support. Life gets better when you run with a good group though. Try to find a guild rather than pugging all the time.

Ioflux.4369:

All I can say is, when you get better, and play with better people, you’ll realize how silly this post is.

When i get better? Why do you assume that i’m a bad player?
This post is revolving an issue that is known with PUGs.
Without substance your argument is pretty invalid. Sry.

Awesome.6120:

If you only run pugs then you’re right, it’s hard to stay in melee when everyone else is ranged and not tossing around much support. Life gets better when you run with a good group though. Try to find a guild rather than pugging all the time.

Ofc it is easier to go melee if you have the proper support, that however is never the case with pugs. And even if you can manage a dungeon with 5 melee players, it still does not change the fact that being ranged would’ve been easier (safer).

JJBigs.8456:

Kirbyprime.2645:

I’m really only posting to say,

Bloom is actually easier at melee range, this coming from an ele.

How? My guardian (Suppsoedly the most survivable class) dies to it at like 15+. In 10, I have a 50/50 chance of melee not killing me.

Bloom does 3 moves that can kill you really. The single target poison, the 6 point dredge style quake drill thing, and the most important being the AoE poison agony move.

Of the 3 moves the single target isn’t too much of an issue with any character unless you were already hit to begin with. The 6 pointed AoE has a Kohler style charge up and is easy to dodge out of. Even when hit, it only deals a moderate amount of damage and is really only dangerous if you’re really hurt or you’re out of condition removals.

The most important is the agony inducing AoE poison. The reason why melee range is actually better is because of how the water tends to hide the red circles. In melee range, the circles are easily visible and simple to dodge, in some cases even without dodging.

How to exploit this really depends on your setup though. I run with sigil of energy so I pretty much dodge everything which tends to skew things a lot. However, for most jobs it’s easy enough to just save dodges for the immobilizing drill attack and the agony attack.

Granted I have limited experience with dungeons, the only one I’ve run a decent amount of times is arah (going for the bifrost), but I’ve found after I figured out the bosses attacks that most of them are easier in melee range. It does get hard to see some of their tells when they are bathed in particle effects from attacks but I seem to get hit less and the boss goes down way faster.

If all 5 players are at melee, then when 1 goes down, there are 4 others immediately close to revive. This advantage applies to AoE boons and other similar tactics.

KrisHQ.4719:

Ioflux.4369:

All I can say is, when you get better, and play with better people, you’ll realize how silly this post is.

When i get better? Why do you assume that i’m a bad player?
This post is revolving an issue that is known with PUGs.
Without substance your argument is pretty invalid. Sry.

Awesome.6120:

If you only run pugs then you’re right, it’s hard to stay in melee when everyone else is ranged and not tossing around much support. Life gets better when you run with a good group though. Try to find a guild rather than pugging all the time.

Ofc it is easier to go melee if you have the proper support, that however is never the case with pugs. And even if you can manage a dungeon with 5 melee players, it still does not change the fact that being ranged would’ve been easier (safer).

Someone doesn’t have to be “bad” to get better. A rating of 9.1 is “better” than 9.0 (out of 10. You will realize a good amount of those examples you listed are actually easier in melee once you get into a good habit of how to melee them. I used to feel the same way you did 1month after the game came out. Now I feel that given enough practice / time and synergy, everything melee’able is easier to melee.

JJBigs.8456:

Kirbyprime.2645:

I’m really only posting to say,

Bloom is actually easier at melee range, this coming from an ele.

How? My guardian (Suppsoedly the most survivable class) dies to it at like 15+. In 10, I have a 50/50 chance of melee not killing me.

Uhh no way I face tank him at lvl 30+. Well technically not true face tanking, cause i dodge i guess but im always meleeing him.

Renegade.6325:

If all 5 players are at melee, then when 1 goes down, there are 4 others immediately close to revive. This advantage applies to AoE boons and other similar tactics.

then they all get hit with double agony and die..

anyone? no?

Folk.2093:

Renegade.6325:

If all 5 players are at melee, then when 1 goes down, there are 4 others immediately close to revive. This advantage applies to AoE boons and other similar tactics.

then they all get hit with double agony and die..

anyone? no?

No, stand inside and melee. When he shakes, stand behind + dodge red circles. Practice it, and watch how easy he is once youve got it down.

JJBigs.8456:

Kirbyprime.2645:

I’m really only posting to say,

Bloom is actually easier at melee range, this coming from an ele.

How? My guardian (Suppsoedly the most survivable class) dies to it at like 15+. In 10, I have a 50/50 chance of melee not killing me.

That’s funny, because I melee him at 40+ fotm all the time.

If you stand in his body there is one thing that can hit you, his agony attack. Possibly the poison cloud once in a while which is easy to get out of and clear conditions.

His agony attack can be dodged as long as you don’t have terrible reaction time.

Thus, there is nothing that can actually kill you if you know how to dodge.

JJBigs.8456:

Kirbyprime.2645:

I’m really only posting to say,

Bloom is actually easier at melee range, this coming from an ele.

How? My guardian (Suppsoedly the most survivable class) dies to it at like 15+. In 10, I have a 50/50 chance of melee not killing me.

What people fail to realise is guardians aren’t tanks by speccing a tank build you will be able to take maybe 1 extra hit from certain attacks. This game is about mitigating(aegis/invul/etc) damage or dodging it

As far as the OP, the “balance” is killing faster, which is why people who know boss’ patterns go full melee to speed clear.

The “balance” is doing a dungeon in 25 minutes with single target and lower dps ranged attacks to be slightly safer in general, or be a good player and learn encounters and melee so you can do the same dungeon in 10 minutes and imho have more fun at the same time because you have to react and read tells. Not to mention there are alot more teamwork mechanics when you go full melee groups to deal with certain things instead of kiting around.

Dungeons don’t “favor” ranged, bad players favor ranged to be safer so they don’t die.

Dungeons favor whatever the group is capable of, which is ranged to go slow, or melee to go fast at the expense of safety. That’s the whole tradeoff.

I agree with the OP, I’m a mesmer who’s 80% of the time in melee because my damage output is a crazy lot higher than kittening with my greatsword but I’m always amazed at how the other mesmers, along with warriors, guardians etc tend to stick to ranged attacks on bosses that are a tiny bit deadlier in melee.

The problem is that there’s no drawback to staying ranged except lower damage, most of the deadly attacks are in melee and ranged attacks are only “don’t stand in the fire” kind of attacks.

Let’s take the Grawl Shaman that makes people cry, the only thing you have to fear in range are the arrows while in melee, you have two aoe attack along with the arrow which is a lot harder to dodge due to the almost instant travel time.

Lupicus, go melee in phase 1 and you have to deal with all the other attacks (grubs, swarm) along with an instant kick between every attack, P2 you have to deal with instant bolts and P3, there’s the bubble and bolt spam.

The Son of svanir in the snow fractal, the final bosses of CoF 1 or 3, of CM, AC, TA and others, all these bosses are zero threat to a ranged player.

Add boss mechanics to draw ranged players to mid/melee range, add a deadzone in melee range on some attacks, melees have to deal with (sometimes) unpredictable attacks (looking at you, CM centaur) so give the ranged players some work too.

Strifey.7215:

Dungeons don’t “favor” ranged, bad players favor ranged to be safer so they don’t die.

Dungeons favor whatever the group is capable of, which is ranged to go slow, or melee to go fast at the expense of safety. That’s the whole tradeoff.

No, no, that’s not how a tradeoff should work. Right now it’s “be melee, be fast, and die” and “stay ranged, be slower, stay alive forever”.

It should be balanced around risk/damage, and ranged risk at the moment is very low or non-existant.

missleading title. fractals are fractals and dungeons are dungeons.

melee attacks do more damage, and are favored in more experienced groups.

beginners favor ranged attacks.

KrisHQ.4719:

And even if you can manage a dungeon with 5 melee players, it still does not change the fact that being ranged would’ve been easier (safer).

i’m a lot more safe in melee range, because of weapon/skill choices i made. even when i’m the only melee guy in pug group. (brag) that’s why i get so much praise.

While melee is usually easy, ranged is usually so utterly boring. It really depends how you define “favor”. If “favor = easier to play” then yeah ranged wins. If “favor = faster runs” then melee usually wins.

Wethospu.6437:

While melee is usually easy, ranged is usually so utterly boring. It really depends how you define “favor”. If “favor = easier to play” then yeah ranged wins. If “favor = faster runs” then melee usually wins.

Except with PuGs that can’t survive when going melee >.>

Saulius.8430:

missleading title. fractals are fractals and dungeons are dungeons.

Well. Technically fractals is a dungeon. At least every run consists of 3-4 smaller dungeons and are very similar to normal dungeons except for agony.

It seems that a lot of people assume this is a l2p issue, which is not correct. I’m fully capable of going melee and have almost solo’d The Mossman (which has no relevance to this thread at all, but it seems i have to somehow prove it’s not a l2p issue). This thread is not written in frustration because i always die in melee, but just listing a lot of mechanics that favour ranged.
Let me try to simplify it a bit.
Take Captain Ashym as an example. Whenever he uses his agony attack he will create a small ring of fire quickly followed by the huge blast that gives agony (10+ and 20+). The smaller blast is a clue that you should now dodge to avoid the agony, and as an experienced player you should be able to dodge it (assuming you have enough endurance). Being ranged you do not need to pay attention to his animation and skills, as your range is longer than his (for the agony skill) and therefore you are not in danger as long as you keep a proper distance.
Going melee also requires you to dodge his autoattacks, which can hit pretty hard and therefore usually requires a dodge. Not everyone have a second weapon-set equipped with sigil of energy, and might therefore not have enough endurance for his agony, where as ranged do not need the endurance.
This is usually not a problem for me due to Vigorious Precision and almost permenantly vigor up-keep, but not everyone are using fotm/dungeon specific team set-ups.
In order for PUGs to avoid wiping, people therefore (based on the above) favour ranged as the risks are a lot smaller.
Going fully melee would require a skilled team and proper builds, and we all know that this is not the case with PUGs.
People should be able to play a dungeon they way they want to, without exposing themselves to greater risks than others.
Krag has written a great posts regarding the risk/balance issue.

Higher damage = higher risk. Of course if you want to minimize risk, you do less damage, hence going range. That’s not a matter of favoring or not, it’s a matter of whether the player is willing to exercise that concept.

Ranged usually has way better reward/risk ratio (point of this topic).

I think Anet should give the boss more kind of anti projectile spell which is not whirling defense(it hurts) like CM centaur one to encourage player go to melee from time to time.
Since we can swap weapon,have to keep swapping between melee and range seems reasonable.

Zi Yang.5387:

I think Anet should give the boss more kind of anti projectile spell which is not whirling defense(it hurts) like CM centaur one to encourage player go to melee from time to time.
Since we can swap weapon,have to keep swapping between melee and range seems reasonable.

Just so you know, Elementalists technically have no way to swap weapon nor do we have a “true” melee weapon. Even daggers suffer from projectile reflection.

Kirbyprime.2645:

Zi Yang.5387:

I think Anet should give the boss more kind of anti projectile spell which is not whirling defense(it hurts) like CM centaur one to encourage player go to melee from time to time.
Since we can swap weapon,have to keep swapping between melee and range seems reasonable.

Just so you know, Elementalists technically have no way to swap weapon nor do we have a “true” melee weapon. Even daggers suffer from projectile reflection.

You have 20 skills per weapon set, there are plenty of those skills that aren’t reflected. If you’re using dagger, go use your Air attunement. If you aren’t too stubborn to swap weapon, Scepter is friendlier.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Aside from specific incidents, this perception is due mostly to the increased strength of monsters in dungeons, and that people who melee are grabbing more aggro and holding it. People using ranged weapons have an easier time mitigating damage through movement and positioning, making them safer by default than the person who runs in to punch monsters in the face.
That being said, of the light/medium armor sets I play (I won’t even bring guardian or warrior into the fight since we all know they don’t have too much trouble in melee) I actually have an easier time on my mesmer in Melee than my ranger… due purely to how well a melee mesmer can mitigate damage and control. I don’t do as much damage, but I can survive with warriors and guardians for the most part.

I wouldn’t call dungeons as favoring ranged combat, it just depends on how you play. Monsters are dangerous to anyone of any range. A good test is to have some friends clear out some mobs, and try to 1v1 with a particular creature with ranged and melee, and see how well you hold up and survive (hard to longbow DPS while managing a monster eating your face). I often find my melee mesmer (sword/torch) holds up better than my melee ranger (sword/dagger), but it’s certainly varying levels of utility play and mastery of personal technique.

Thanks for the post Robert, but I have to disagree with you.

As soon as you walk into your first dungeons as an inexperienced lowbie you come to the realization that the majority of encounters DO currently favor ranged combat because many bosses have melee-ranged AOE abilities that make it extremely hazardous and then there are fights where you HAVE to used ranged weapons regardless.

I’m just going to nit-pick some bosses from FOTM.

(Volcanic Fractals)

• Champion Grawl Shaman punts people in melee range constantly and has an AOE instant-gib ability. It’s not worth the hassle using melee weapons.
• Legendary Grawl Shaman has an instant gib melee AOE ability that he spams. You HAVE to use ranged weapons on this fight because you need to be near your party members.

(Cliffside)

• 1st hammer dude has a Ring of Warding attack that if you don’t dodge in melee range it will one shot you.
• Final hammer dude punts people in melee range and applies Agony when he hits you. You HAVE to use a ranged weapon on this.

(Swamp)

• Bloomhunger will murder you in melee range. You HAVE to use a ranged weapon here.
• Mossman has an instant-gib AOE cleave, but it’s avoidable.

(Snowblind)

• Frost thing forces you to use ranged weapons. #1. You will aggro extra adds at close range and #2. you will get too many stacks of frostbite. It’s just not efficient to use ranged weapons.
• Shaman boss is melee friendly.

(Ascalon event)

• Final boss has an AOE agony ability that will kill you if you’re close. You have to use ranged weapons.

(Dredge )

• Champ Dredge guy is melee friendly.
• Last part (Ice or Dredge) you HAVE to use ranged weapons. No questions asked.

(Jade Maw)

• Ranged weapons unless you want to be thrown around constantly by tentacles.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I often find my melee mesmer (sword/torch) holds up better than my melee ranger (sword/dagger), but it’s certainly varying levels of utility play and mastery of personal technique.

Have you ever tried pressing #5 while on your mesmer then? How did you cope with the sudden urge to whack one or preferrably both of the guys working on balancing over the head with something?

ComeAndSee.1356:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Aside from specific incidents, this perception is due mostly to the increased strength of monsters in dungeons, and that people who melee are grabbing more aggro and holding it. People using ranged weapons have an easier time mitigating damage through movement and positioning, making them safer by default than the person who runs in to punch monsters in the face.
That being said, of the light/medium armor sets I play (I won’t even bring guardian or warrior into the fight since we all know they don’t have too much trouble in melee) I actually have an easier time on my mesmer in Melee than my ranger… due purely to how well a melee mesmer can mitigate damage and control. I don’t do as much damage, but I can survive with warriors and guardians for the most part.

I wouldn’t call dungeons as favoring ranged combat, it just depends on how you play. Monsters are dangerous to anyone of any range. A good test is to have some friends clear out some mobs, and try to 1v1 with a particular creature with ranged and melee, and see how well you hold up and survive (hard to longbow DPS while managing a monster eating your face). I often find my melee mesmer (sword/torch) holds up better than my melee ranger (sword/dagger), but it’s certainly varying levels of utility play and mastery of personal technique.

Thanks for the post Robert, but I have to disagree with you.

As soon as you walk into your first dungeons as an inexperienced lowbie you come to the realization that the majority of encounters DO currently favor ranged combat because many bosses have melee-ranged AOE abilities that make it extremely hazardous and then there are fights where you HAVE to used ranged weapons regardless.

I’m just going to nit-pick some bosses from FOTM.

(Volcanic Fractals)

• Champion Grawl Shaman punts people in melee range constantly and has an AOE instant-gib ability. It’s not worth the hassle using melee weapons.
• Legendary Grawl Shaman has an instant gib melee AOE ability that he spams. You HAVE to use ranged weapons on this fight because you need to be near your party members.

(Cliffside)

• 1st hammer dude has a Ring of Warding attack that if you don’t dodge in melee range it will one shot you.
• Final hammer dude punts people in melee range and applies Agony when he hits you. You HAVE to use a ranged weapon on this.

(Swamp)

• Bloomhunger will murder you in melee range. You HAVE to use a ranged weapon here.
• Mossman has an instant-gib AOE cleave, but it’s avoidable.

(Snowblind)

• Frost thing forces you to use ranged weapons. #1. You will aggro extra adds at close range and #2. you will get too many stacks of frostbite. It’s just not efficient to use ranged weapons.
• Shaman boss is melee friendly.

(Ascalon event)

• Final boss has an AOE agony ability that will kill you if you’re close. You have to use ranged weapons.

(Dredge )

• Champ Dredge guy is melee friendly.
• Last part (Ice or Dredge) you HAVE to use ranged weapons. No questions asked.

(Jade Maw)

• Ranged weapons unless you want to be thrown around constantly by tentacles.

A good amount of those encounters you just listed can be melee’d once you get the hang of dodging the proper attacks.

Jade maw – I shred through tentacles in melee since their attacks are so obvious to dodge.

Bloomhunger – can be melee’d once you learn the trick to. Stand under him until he shakes, when he shakes → stand behind him and dodge red circles.

Ascalon boss – agony doesnt cast constantly, they have roughly 12-18s intervals, make use of weapon swapping and weave.

Volcanic – Melee baits the dive and kb so that your range get an extra 4-6s of dps’ing without worrying of a fire arrow. As for champion mid level boss, try using max auto attack range for whole party, he’ll never punt you once.

Dungeons favor ranged? Seriously?
I think That why CoF lfg full of ‘speed run 4 warriors’ posts, yep.
P.S. after switching to full 100nade engi i find it much much more easier and effective to simply stay in boss model (of course, where you can do it at all). Good bye range ;[

Ioflux.4369:

Kirbyprime.2645:

Zi Yang.5387:

I think Anet should give the boss more kind of anti projectile spell which is not whirling defense(it hurts) like CM centaur one to encourage player go to melee from time to time.
Since we can swap weapon,have to keep swapping between melee and range seems reasonable.

Just so you know, Elementalists technically have no way to swap weapon nor do we have a “true” melee weapon. Even daggers suffer from projectile reflection.

You have 20 skills per weapon set, there are plenty of those skills that aren’t reflected. If you’re using dagger, go use your Air attunement. If you aren’t too stubborn to swap weapon, Scepter is friendlier.

Oh, I know, there are lots of ways to bypass reflection. Though things like swirling winds would completely kill all forms of damage… except maybe field spells I guess? Never tried actually. Regardless, losing half our spells are quite a bit more harmful than other classes having to swap weapons to ranged.

Kirbyprime.2645:

Ioflux.4369:

Kirbyprime.2645:

Zi Yang.5387:

I think Anet should give the boss more kind of anti projectile spell which is not whirling defense(it hurts) like CM centaur one to encourage player go to melee from time to time.
Since we can swap weapon,have to keep swapping between melee and range seems reasonable.

Just so you know, Elementalists technically have no way to swap weapon nor do we have a “true” melee weapon. Even daggers suffer from projectile reflection.

You have 20 skills per weapon set, there are plenty of those skills that aren’t reflected. If you’re using dagger, go use your Air attunement. If you aren’t too stubborn to swap weapon, Scepter is friendlier.

Oh, I know, there are lots of ways to bypass reflection. Though things like swirling winds would completely kill all forms of damage… except maybe field spells I guess? Never tried actually. Regardless, losing half our spells are quite a bit more harmful than other classes having to swap weapons to ranged.

Half your skills is still equal to a weapon swap for every class except engineer. Field skills do work in reflection / projectile destruction areas. I hate it when mobs start reflecting my skills, but it is discipline to stop attacking.

Sidenote: I love killing my teammates on jade maw off the colossuses. Frenzy + Volley + Killshot while standing behind my teammate just to watch their hp blow up. Hilarity ensues.

ComeAndSee.1356:

I’m just going to nit-pick some bosses from FOTM.

(Volcanic Fractals)

• Champion Grawl Shaman punts people in melee range constantly and has an AOE instant-gib ability. It’s not worth the hassle using melee weapons.
• Legendary Grawl Shaman has an instant gib melee AOE ability that he spams. You HAVE to use ranged weapons on this fight because you need to be near your party members.

(Cliffside)

• 1st hammer dude has a Ring of Warding attack that if you don’t dodge in melee range it will one shot you.
• Final hammer dude punts people in melee range and applies Agony when he hits you. You HAVE to use a ranged weapon on this.

(Swamp)

• Bloomhunger will murder you in melee range. You HAVE to use a ranged weapon here.
• Mossman has an instant-gib AOE cleave, but it’s avoidable.

(Snowblind)

• Frost thing forces you to use ranged weapons. #1. You will aggro extra adds at close range and #2. you will get too many stacks of frostbite. It’s just not efficient to use ranged weapons.
• Shaman boss is melee friendly.

(Ascalon event)

• Final boss has an AOE agony ability that will kill you if you’re close. You have to use ranged weapons.

(Dredge )

• Champ Dredge guy is melee friendly.
• Last part (Ice or Dredge) you HAVE to use ranged weapons. No questions asked.

(Jade Maw)

• Ranged weapons unless you want to be thrown around constantly by tentacles.

Another post where a player thinks that because he can’t do it something is fact:

(Volcanic Fractals)
Champion Grawl Shaman – He doesn’t do his knockback AoE if you max range melee him, I never range him
Legendary Grawl Shaman – He has a slow windup melee move where he flies in the air and gives you like 2 seconds to react. I constantly swap between range and melee, probably 40% range and 60% melee which does much more dps by allowing you to use your burst dps melee moves which are superior to range.

(Cliffside)
Yes range is easier, but as you mentioned, possible to melee a large portion of the time depending on your class. Again sometimes you need to SWAP to range, but you never need to 100% range which hurts your dps.

(Swamp)
Bloomhunger is easier in melee, you get hit by one thing. In fact I solo’d him from 30% health yesterday in FOTM 42 after my party died. I have never once ranged him past the first week fractals came out.

(Jade Maw)
Never range here, full group melees and you can kill the tentacles faster then they spawn in p3 which is how you “speed run” it because killing tentacles does damage. Apparently dodging, blinds, knockdowns, invulns, aegis, boons, etc. are too hard for people to use.

The other stuff you listed does need to be ranged some of the time, but besides Ascalon Captain once he hits p2, it is superior to burst in and melee them during certain parts.

Edit: Already posted

On my solo attempts I have noticed that in many cases being ranged would me much much easier than melee. For example you can indefinitely kite many enemies or just zig-zag and avoid their every/most attacks. And a lot more reaction time and melee-only attacks/effects.
More mobile enemies, less fixated aggro and less straying projectiles would quickly balance it.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I actually have an easier time on my mesmer in Melee than my ranger

I think everybody does. A sword mesmer with a non-glass build can basically stand in front of Kholer for the entire fight. Even a guardian needs to move now and then.

But, to be honest, I think that says more about class balance (and specifically about how fragile and one-dimensional rangers are) than about melee vs. ranged.

I play every class and ranger definitely feels like the runt of the litter in terms of defensive abilities and party utility.

Anyway, back to the topic: the original poster has a point; ranged combat is (usually) more survivable, and having a ranged weapon is almost mandatory for many fights (while having a melee weapon is always optional – after all, ranged weapons work in melee range too), but that’s not particularly unrealistic. After all, if you’re fighting a wolf at range, you’re obviously going to take less damage than if you stick your face in its mouth. In an RPG, common sense should trump rock-paper-scissors balancing, IMO.

I do think that some boss fights should be tuned to be more melee-friendly, though (or less melee-unfriendly). Specifically, there are a few bosses that fire their ranged / AoE attacks at players in melee range, which not only gives them less time to react, but also forces them to temporarily move away and stop doing damage, while ranged players can keep attacking while having plenty of time to dodge projectiles or move out of AoE.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

This thread claims that dungeons favor ranged players, which I disagree with. Group dynamics favor ranged players […] 1v1 though, I feel melee is superior

I thought group dynamics were a pretty fundamental part of dungeons. Or were the dungeons designed to be done solo…?

I think I would agree with OP to a point. With ranged, you’re pretty safe building berserkers gear and pumping all your steroid skills. With melee, you need to pad yourself with Vit/Tough, as well as focus on dodging. The damage output almost balances out (melee still does a tad better, I think). I think a group of 5 in a circle around the boss has a better chance of succeeding because they can kite and avoid damage at the cost of a small bit of extra damage. With a lot of melee characters, I think you run the risk of everyone getting hit by one (possibly lag induced) breath attack that puts everyone in down state.

Also, fighting flying monsters as melee is awful :/

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Dungeons are group play, but there are standout solo moments in them.

There shouldn’t be any solo moments in a coordinated group. The amount of times where your group’s outcome is determined by 1 member’s ability to fight on their own is extremely low (and becomes more beneficial to wipe/abandon combat and get everyone back in the encounter). More often it becomes 1 player vs X mobs which certain professions themselves handle naturally better than others.

Have to chime in on people saying you can’t melee bloomhunger.

If you’re willing to give it a try a few times and get downed some, you’ll find it’s actually relatively easy after a bit.

I used to be the same way, did bloomhunger ranged probably a hundred times. Random guy in my group once just fought in melee the whole time, didn’t get downed. I saw that, gave it a try next time, got downed some, tried it some more…now I just melee bloomhunger exclusively.

As an elementalist.

IMO there are too many statics bosses in this game and those that actually move usually don’t have any kind of resistance to crippling/snaring effects and are easily kiteable.
Their ranged attacks become the almost only threat against ranged players, and when projectile based (which happens a lot) they can also be nullified up to a high degree by some well-known skills (which have their own complain thread).

I wouldn’t say the game is melee unfriendly and I actually like the idea of melee players keeping the pressure of the fight for themselves, but I also think that there are too many fights where that pressure is pretty unfair when we compare it with a full ranged approach (which can easily be spotted when every melee can disengage and fully recover without bigger issues).
I know there’s a lot of people out there who love speedclearing, but I find that time-saving being the only reason for going melee is a bit lackluster at least.

I feel there are more urgent things to tweak/solve in PvE (class/role balance being probably the most notorious one) but some kind of heavy resistance to cripple could be welcomed in the future. This would make kiting much more CD dependant and time limited so we could see a more team oriented gameplay where players had to go into melee and buy time for snares/chills to recharge.
Some kind of aggro-disengage besides stealth would be great too. I don’t think it’s OK for a immobilized/chilled enemy to keep tracking the same target when this disengages with speed boost and another potential target stays/enters close combat .

ComeAndSee.1356:

I’m just going to nit-pick some bosses from FOTM.

(Volcanic Fractals)

• Champion Grawl Shaman punts people in melee range constantly and has an AOE instant-gib ability. It’s not worth the hassle using melee weapons.
• Legendary Grawl Shaman has an instant gib melee AOE ability that he spams. You HAVE to use ranged weapons on this fight because you need to be near your party members.

(Cliffside)

• 1st hammer dude has a Ring of Warding attack that if you don’t dodge in melee range it will one shot you.
• Final hammer dude punts people in melee range and applies Agony when he hits you. You HAVE to use a ranged weapon on this.

(Swamp)

• Bloomhunger will murder you in melee range. You HAVE to use a ranged weapon here.
• Mossman has an instant-gib AOE cleave, but it’s avoidable.

(Snowblind)

• Frost thing forces you to use ranged weapons. #1. You will aggro extra adds at close range and #2. you will get too many stacks of frostbite. It’s just not efficient to use ranged weapons.
• Shaman boss is melee friendly.

(Ascalon event)

• Final boss has an AOE agony ability that will kill you if you’re close. You have to use ranged weapons.

(Dredge )

• Champ Dredge guy is melee friendly.
• Last part (Ice or Dredge) you HAVE to use ranged weapons. No questions asked.

(Jade Maw)

• Ranged weapons unless you want to be thrown around constantly by tentacles.

These opinions will be coming from someone who mains a Thief:

Champion Grawl Shaman: The punt is easy to spot and dodge, the AOE insta-gib is also extremely drawn-out and easy to time when to avoid.

Legendary Grawl Shaman: He does NOT spam any insta-gib AOEs. He occasionally uses a fairly strong radial blowback which is highly telegraphed, and a radial high-power shot that causes some lava fonts to appear beneath them. Again, easily dodgeable and you can retreat back to your team when necessary.

Legendary Archdiviner (hammer dude): I don’t even know what “Ring of Warding” refers to. He has a melee swing which is fairly easy to dodge, the large AoE circle spam (the Agony application) and a well-telegraphed spin that sends Confusion projectiles with high power, along with a high-power leap attack. All are fairly easy to dodge. I can stay directly in his face with D/D and melee his face off, timing dodges against the Confusion spin and staying vigilant against an aggro switch in which he uses any other attacks against me. You just need to stay on your toes.

Legendary Archdiviner (hammer dude) part 2: He uses his melee punt more often, but again, it is dodgeable. And stop spreading lies. This punt does NOT apply Agony. The Agony applies when he uses an extremely slow overhead smash, which has a trail and a charge-up effect. If you actually get hit by it, you shouldn’t be in melee at all. You don’t deserve to be there.

Bloomhunger: Totally false. You are safer in melee than in range.

Mossman: Non-stealth attacks are easily dodgeable with the exception of the thrown axe which is sometimes hard to spot, but that is a ranged attack regardless. His stealth attack is a cue to quick back off, naturally.
Ice Elemental: Only natural due to the setup of the fires and mob allocation. However, you can use melee on the spawned elementals just fine. They are hardly a problem.
Shaman: No need to discuss.

Captain Ashym: The Agony application and explosion occurs within 2 stages, the initial charge and small burst, and then the larger burst. It is quite possible to avoid both bursts with one dodge. However, staying in melee too long will push Ashym in to pulling out his greatsword, which is a lot deadlier than his staff, so yes, range is preferred.

Rabsovich: Agreed.

Ice Elemental/Dredge Power Suit: Yes, you should use range, but only for kiting purposes. It is quite possible to remain in melee range if you are on your toes, but it’s not ideal since you want to keep dragging the boss around the room to hit him with lava. I tend to rush in and burst him when he has low HP for the final push, and most of my guildies do, too.

Jade Maw: When the tentacles are as predictable as they are, I’m actually fairly surprised at this. I have never used a ranged weapon in this fractal, ever.

In summary, yes, you have to stay on your toes more often, and you have to be paying attention, and you have to be staying vigilant and watching the enemy’s every move, but what the hell do you expect? You’re standing in front of them and smacking them square in the face. Running in to melee and dealing the expectedly higher damage than at range comes at the cost of higher danger, and thus the risk/reward ratio shifts. If you think going in to melee should only be as challenging as staying at range, you’re gravely mistaken. You’re charging to the front lines. You should expect nothing less than more danger heading your way. Learn to mitigate, avoid and predict incoming damage and the pay-off becomes greater.

It would be all good if mobs gave proper tells you could react to as a melee before doing something dangerous or lethal, but most of the time that’s not the case. I get downed or randomly take huge amounts of damage on my Thief all the time in dungeons and it’s not due to lazyness or not knowing where my dodge button is. It just happens, a lot. Maybe players who have run a particular dungeon 50 times can manage to read all mob patterns and be safe in melee, but a regular player very often can’t and thus would be stupid to not go ranged DPS if he or she isn’t a Warrior or a Guardian.

Long story short: If mobs had better tells before doing high damage attacks, the world would be a better place.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

It depends on how well you move, and, again, class mastery. If I can stand -smartly- in front of something utilizing my skills to mitigate damage, then I don’t have to run around and use zigzag/circle strafing to overcome things. Again though, its a class/technique thing, and even then also dependent on the mobs you face.

Problem is, its easier to tap A, D, A, D, A, D, A, D, A, D or hold on W than it is to utilize all of your mobility skills and endurance as effectively as possible.

Your arguement is skill. If you have more skill, you can overcome certain things without kiting. Great. Then the question becomes: “Who cares? Kite it.”

Its why most games consider kiting an exploit but for some reason Anet decided to call it a “Strategy”.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

In the case it is a 1v1 moment, it could be that you are the last survivor of your group on a boss nearly dead, or got ambushed by something while separated from your group. Dungeons are group play, but there are standout solo moments in them.

And those standout solo moments usually devolve into run, run, run, run, run, heal, damage, rinse, repeat, dead boss. Melee has very little, if any, access to that mechanic, but ranged has every opportunity for it.

I’m taking this response to mean “Melee is hard mode” … basically.

Ranged is easier pretty much all the time and you can “range” in melee range if you want to. Thing is Melee is rewarded with more dps and better group synergy and i atm have NP with this.

This is clearly a l2dodge issue. My main is a ranger and i switched to greatsword as main weapon approx a month ago. I find it more challenging and fun to run dungeons in melee exclusively, especially as a ranger
The only mob that i cannot melee atm is fire shaman lvl 30+ and lupicus stage2 – all others are absolutely meleable Just need to figure out the mechanics and learn to dodge and use defensive cooldowns appropriately