(edited by Wicked Rin.1972)
Dungeons for beginners
Thieves bring amazing DPS if you think they are too squishy you don’t know how to dodge.
Thieves bring amazing DPS if you think they are too squishy you don’t know how to dodge.
This. Also ranger has one of the best reflect skills in the game and can deal plenty of damage outside of 1h sword if played properly. And a properly equipped power necro can stack vuln really well and do some pretty good damage alongside it.
So basically, long story short, you can excel with any class when played properly. The problem isn’t the classes themselves, but rather the number of effective builds available to them, which, for many of them, is very few.
Thieves bring amazing DPS if you think they are too squishy you don’t know how to dodge.
I didn’t say thieves do bad dps, other professions just have more utlities that could deal with more situations.
Thieves bring amazing DPS if you think they are too squishy you don’t know how to dodge.
This. Also ranger has one of the best reflect skills in the game and can deal plenty of damage outside of 1h sword if played properly. And a properly equipped power necro can stack vuln really well and do some pretty good damage alongside it.
So basically, long story short, you can excel with any class when played properly. The problem isn’t the classes themselves, but rather the number of effective builds available to them, which, for many of them, is very few.
For rangers, I said sword set. Besides, beginners will not look good in a pug dungeon group if they have their bow with their bears. Better to pick the easy to accept professions. ex: warriors/guardians
Necromancers take more effort and like you said “geared properly”. Beginners roll with what they got, they don’t have the tokens/gold to get that stuff (I’m assuming they’re super new to dungeons).
My thief has boon stealing, blind fields, blast finishers, a pull, projectile block, party might, fury, and swiftness; and multiple dazes and stuns, all in addition to a heavy damage output. Saying that thief lacks utility outside of stealth just means that you don’t have enough knowledge of the class to know otherwise.
As for your other argument, nobody is going to learn how to properly gear a ranger or necro by rerolling to a guardian or warrior. Sure, it might be a little rough starting out, but telling them to play another class isn’t going to help that at all.
Thieves bring amazing DPS if you think they are too squishy you don’t know how to dodge.
This. Also ranger has one of the best reflect skills in the game and can deal plenty of damage outside of 1h sword if played properly. And a properly equipped power necro can stack vuln really well and do some pretty good damage alongside it.
So basically, long story short, you can excel with any class when played properly. The problem isn’t the classes themselves, but rather the number of effective builds available to them, which, for many of them, is very few.
Not sure if the ranger reflect is inttended, the wiki put it as a anomaly and it send you to the bug definition lol.
Still the npcs use it so is fair to use for now.
(edited by Lucius.2140)
My thief has boon stealing, blind fields, blast finishers, a pull, projectile block, party might, fury, and swiftness; and multiple dazes and stuns, all in addition to a heavy damage output. Saying that thief lacks utility outside of stealth just means that you don’t have enough knowledge of the class to know otherwise.
As for your other argument, nobody is going to learn how to properly gear a ranger or necro by rerolling to a guardian or warrior. Sure, it might be a little rough starting out, but telling them to play another class isn’t going to help that at all.
You can’t daze/stun a boss forever, so that doesn’t matter. You don’t need swiftness in a boss fight. Thieves are not the best for giving might stacks, imo, too many skills slots. I’ll agree about the fury, but blast finishers are nothing without the right combo field (it’s all about the fire field!).
To my knowledge the only boss that can be dazed/stunned forever is Bjarl still thieves can use pistol whip or 4 with off hand pistol to cut down those defiant stacks to help prevent a boss from wiping a team…
What do you mean too many skill slots? Smoke screen has 3 uses blindness projectile block and stealth if you say blindness isn’t any good then there really is no point carrying this conversation on.
Why are you using Thrill of the crime?
To my knowledge the only boss that can be dazed/stunned forever is Bjarl still thieves can use pistol whip or 4 with off hand pistol to cut down those defiant stacks to help prevent a boss from wiping a team…
What do you mean too many skill slots? Smoke screen has 3 uses blindness projectile block and stealth if you say blindness isn’t any good then there really is no point carrying this conversation on.
I didn’t even say anything bad about blindness.
Anyway, lets assume you have all professions level 80, would you use a thief over any other for a dungeon run?
I have a warrior and a guardian soon to be 80. I have played on my wife’s Mesmer and elementalist the only other class I might want to try would be engineer. At the end of the day though I play my thief most effectively and enjoy it.
Yes I would play thief over any other class.
Why are you using Thrill of the crime?
Flanking strikes is getting moved to master tier, so I figured I might as well get used to it now.
Why are you using Thrill of the crime?
Flanking strikes is getting moved to master tier, so I figured I might as well get used to it now.
I wasn’t expecting a reasonable answer
Why are you using Thrill of the crime?
Flanking strikes is getting moved to master tier, so I figured I might as well get used to it now.
I wasn’t expecting a reasonable answer
Well to be fair, I switched between FS and TotC depending on whether or not fury was readily available to my group, but now it seems like I won’t have that sort of luxury anymore.
Yes I would play thief over any other class.
It’s always good to play your main. It’s also good to experiment with other professions too.
Anyone wanna give me some pointers on 11k hp thief or ele? I can boss just fine when I know where the attacks are coming from. Having trouble with trash runs and bosses with ads like end boss of SE p3 or some other place when it’s time to stack.
Anyone wanna give me some pointers on 11k hp thief or ele? I can boss just fine when I know where the attacks are coming from. Having trouble with trash runs and bosses with ads like end boss of SE p3 or some other place when it’s time to stack.
Well, thief is simple, you blind the adds to fight them and stealth to skip.
I don’t really know what’s the problem to run past stuff on elementalist given how mobile those things are, like, you can even get a mist form if everything is terrible and just ask others to wait a minute to swap the utility.
Trouble on fighting adds on an ele though. Well, I dunno, try using a focus? Though elementalist has a plenty of utility across all the weapons, chill, blind, projectiles nullify/reflect.
I can skip just fine with any class. But I dunno, just relying on blinds to avoid random stray atks isn’t just doing it. Sometimes it’s the boss auto-atk cleaves or the little things that I usually just facetank on my warrior.
(not expert opinion, just mine)
In my personal dungeon experience. It has gotten to the point that I have a preferred class for various encounters and or group composition. To best fit where I am at as a player.
My “go to” People are a Necromancer and Thief. I have the Guard and War as well. but again its group comp at that point.
Thieves have remarkable damage output, its just somewhat complicated to get there. regardless, They bring not only stealth to the mix but blast finishers. Smoke screen for your protection wall. Stuns, immobilizations, blinds, and cripples.
Necromancers, at least in my build. I can stack 25 vuln by myself. My Well of suffering crits every hit, and does an average of 3k per hit (in arah) and is a combo field. Focus 4 is a debuffer. I do however lack in a reflect. (unless I am missing one that I have not seen). but outside of that I really like the overall utility.
Nuts and bolts to it, to the original topic at hand, EVERY class has something that can be brought to the table. Its up to the player to want to find it, and then Have a group that is willing to work with it.
Best of luck out there. So much to do and so little time to do it in.
(not expert opinion, just mine)
Necromancers, at least in my build. I can stack 25 vuln by myself. My Well of suffering crits every hit, and does an average of 3k per hit (in arah) and is a combo field. Focus 4 is a debuffer. I do however lack in a reflect. (unless I am missing one that I have not seen). but outside of that I really like the overall utility.
25 stacks of vuln can easily be achieved if everyone contributes a bit to it (~5stacks per person). If you need 1 dedicated player for might/vuln the chances are that your group isn’t that good in the first place, be it because of classes or players (mainly the latter).
Sure wells are nice, exspecially well of darkness for trash, and necro dps might not be terrible, as long as you play right, but other classes have good dps too. On top of that other classes have unique and useful buffs, like banners, spotter, frost spirit etc. or can grant you very useful boons like aegis, some might, fury etc. . Necro lacks in both departments.
Sure for a regular pug group necro is fine, but if you want smooth and fast runs you don’t want a necro in the end. Not because of the things he offers, but because of the things he wont offer.
You are right of course. After posting and then going to run a few pits in Tyria. It did dawn on me,
Necromancer being a perfectly capable class in dungeon running, Is Very selfish. Sure you can stack up the vul, and keep a pretty steady actual damage per second. But you are right in that they do seem lacking in the party Environment.
hmmm…
Don’t get me wrong with that, I don’t mind running a dungeon with a necro.
I wont kick a necro out of the group just because he is playing necro (I will however if he keeps doing kittened bull kitten, like with any other class).
It pains me aswell that my first class, the mesmer, has such a niche role to play in dungeons. You don’t want a mesmer for the damage he may be able to put out with skills apart from feedback. You don’t want a mesmer if there is nothing to reflect. Timewarp has a kittenty cd and offeres very little to a lot of classes (just buffing auto attacks). I would love leveling up a ranger/engi/necro, but as it currently stands these classes are very subpar when it comes to “carrying” in dungeons, which is what i normally do. Guards are excellent for that, even a lvl 30 thief can skip your group through all arah trash, Warriors will buff the damage in your group like noone else, eles can deal incredible amounts of damage, with or without fgs does not matter. It is just sad that the missing split between pvp and pve oriented stuff leads to these kinds of nerfs/downsides on classes.
Why are conditions so weak in PvE? Well take a look at what they do in PvP.
Why are thiefs so squishy and have so little ways to mitigate damage? Well look at their burst potential and perma stealth builds in WvW.
On topic: No matter what class you play, try to bring at least one of each weapons you could need in a dungeon, if there are main and offhand options bring at least two. For example: Warriors usually don’t need a sword or Longbow to get through a dungeon (granted you know how to melee stuff). But having a sword will come in very handy if you need to block certain attacks (Lupicus aoe, grawl shaman attacks w/e kills you fast) or skip longer parts in dungeons, Longbow can come in handy if you need to burn enemies for example. Sure some weapons will only find very little use, but when they do you better have them ready.
Look up class guides made by competent people. DnT members for example. You don’t need to run full zerk in the begining, since you don’t know yet what and when to dodge. A mix of zerk/valk/knights/soldiers is fine, just try to squeeze in as much of zerk as you can without dying to often (dying from time to time is fine). BUT use correct traits+utilties, if you bother learning how to do proper PvE then don’t try to rely on stuff you wont have later on (shoutheal for example).
I can skip just fine with any class. But I dunno, just relying on blinds to avoid random stray atks isn’t just doing it. Sometimes it’s the boss auto-atk cleaves or the little things that I usually just facetank on my warrior.
Someone around here posted that you only get 25% chance for boss to actually miss when blinded or something like that.
No one will notice if you step back for a few seconds to get health especially against trash mobs. With thief to get through the trash mobs I use S/P hit 5 3 and repeat as necessary. Doesn’t hurt to have bloodlust on pistol either.
Haven’t played elementalist in a while, but against trash you just step back and use 5(?) while in fire and just rain on them.
Its 10% chance for blinds to work on bosses.
hmm personally I consider arah(longer but easier) to be easier than CoE, but to each their own I suppose. you also have sold the eles a bit short I think, FGS #4(into a wall) ftw.
Karl Marx: “Go away! Last words are for fools who haven’t said enough!”
It is just sad that the missing split between pvp and pve oriented stuff leads to these kinds of nerfs/downsides on classes.
Why are conditions so weak in PvE? Well take a look at what they do in PvP.
Why are thiefs so squishy and have so little ways to mitigate damage? Well look at their burst potential and perma stealth builds in WvW.
Now if only the balance team could get their heads out of their kitten long enough to acknowledge this. :/
Anyone wanna give me some pointers on 11k hp thief or ele? I can boss just fine when I know where the attacks are coming from. Having trouble with trash runs and bosses with ads like end boss of SE p3 or some other place when it’s time to stack.
For the SE p3 boss, you’ll probably taking too much damage from the fire aoe. For the thief, I’ll say to just watch out for that while you dps, dodge out of it and jump back onto the boss when it’s gone. For the ele, switching to water attunement then back to another attunement should be enough. You’re probably either using a lightning hammer/fiery great sword so just leave yourself on water attunement, it benefits the party too. A simple dodge on the fire aoe will save you.