Guild Wars 2

I wrote long paragraphs before but I could never get around to submit it so I will keep this short.

Dungeons are boring and easy. There needs to be a hard mode. A mode where you have to think even after doing the dungeon 100 times similar to sPvP. Call it hard mode so that players can’t complain how dungeons are hard.

Combat needs to be more like sPvP, where the combat is most fun. Mobs need to be more active. Mobs needs to give more boons that make their attack deadly. Mobs need to chain CC and actually kill the player. Dungeons should not cater to brain dead grinders that wants the game to be easy. Mobs need to evade player’s burst. PvE Hundred Blade Zerkers needs to be as effective as sPvP Hundred blade zerkers.

Battles should never be “Stack here! and DPS the mob down.” Sure, it is a tactic. But it makes the game boring. There needs to be counters to that.

Mob AI should be reactive rather than spammy(See Subject Alpha). Mobs fighting a full group of hundred blade zerkers? Place weakness on them, dodge backwards, observe how sPvP players counter those. Mobs should never be static. Mobs should heal like players can to replace the high hp pool.

Bosses should never be a punching bag. Instead, they should act like your 5 man party is fighting a skilled solo player or a computer AI that cheats.

In conclusion, the dungeon team should observe sPvP and tPvP to design the mob and boss AI. Of course, Computer intelligence will never be the same as human intelligence but when making comptuer AI as close as possible to human intelligence, it can be much more fun than the trash AI we have right now. GW1 was designed the same way, until heroes were added that can instantly interrupt everything. I am sure that GW2 won’t add heroes or henchmen anytime soon.

Why? Because our skills are balanced around sPvP. If we have a PvP/PvE skill split, it still won’t make dungeons any kitten ring. It will make other profession kill faster.

GW1 was literally tank and spank. You got a tank to ball everything up and then spikers killed everything in a couple of seconds. Did we play the same game?

The only difference in GW1 is that enemies actually walked out of AoE.

No, that’s wrong. They moved out of ground-AoE, such as Fire-storm and Chaos storm. Just general AoE such as Energy Surge wouldn’t cause scatter. Which is exactly why people didn’t use those skills to spike with.

Actually, there were exceptions. Skills like Sliver Armour and Whirling Defense also caused scatter.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

No, that’s wrong. They moved out of ground-AoE, such as Fire-storm and Chaos storm. Just general AoE such as Energy Surge wouldn’t cause scatter. Which is exactly why people didn’t use those skills to spike with.

Actually, there were exceptions. Skills like Sliver Armour and Whirling Defense also caused scatter.

This.

I think the problem here is most players don’t want a hard mode. I know some do, the really good players who faceroll any content that is out now (i.e. lupi in 17 seconds). It sounds great on face value to have a challenge and make things harder, but how many people are really going to be able to do that content? I know, l2p noobs, blah blah. The reality is people probably won’t or can’t. It then becomes a time vs. reward for Anet. Do they spend the time to make content for a few folks, or continue to develop stuff for the masses?

In order to make a hard mode, they would really have to revamp all the dungeons, the mechanics in them and all the boss fights. Just adding higher health pools and mobs that move out of AOE or heal themselves isn’t going to make it more fun. Most mobs already have too much health and don’t reward you enough to take the time to kill them all.

Instead of “hard mode”, they should really design some new dungeons that are much more challenging from a mechanics stand point. Something where you need to actually work as a team like splitting up to accomplish multiple tasks or actually explore the dungeon looking for pieces to a device or something like AC P1 so players have to actually search the dungeon.

You want a hard mode dungeon? Go to Arah and try fighting the mobs. There’s hard mode. Or just go through Twilight Arbor, which got buffed to where a party of 2 warriors, a necro, an engineer, and a guardian get wiped often.

runeblade.7514:

Dungeons are boring and easy. There needs to be a hard mode. A mode where you have to think even after doing the dungeon 100 times similar to sPvP.

That’s basically impossible without some kind of Deep-Blue tier undertaking in A.I. development which Anet is NOT going to mess with and even if they could, they’d only add it to sPvP so people could fight Bots all day for some stupid skin Grinding Reward like they do in League.

There wasn’t a single HM Dungeon in Gw1 that couldn’t be beaten with cheese/gimmicks. That’s why it was called build wars. We’ve got more positioning now, we even have dodging, physics, and some jump puzzle mechanics coming into play in some of these encounters. I think that’s as good as it’s going to get. Am I saying they’re difficult already? No of course not. I wasn’t even impressed by Path4 TBH and that used to be what everyone thought was “Hard mode”.

What I’m saying… is that if you keep asking for Harder Stuff, you’re only going to get ARTIFICIAL DIFFICULTY. (google that term up if you don’t know what it means).

I just want the dungeons to be fun, and not feel like a chore.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I just want the dungeons to be fun, and not feel like a chore.

I feel like they are fun in their current state. It’s all a matter of opinion.

I have to agree with OP I really started playing this game back in February when I got my computer. 5 months later, about, I got the Dungeon Master title. My first, and only, time doing Arah P4 I completed it in 45 min – 1 hr. There needs to either be a new dungeon that is a true challenge or buff up the dungeons a little to give something of a challenge. The only dungeon I really like is CoE and I think that is because it looks so much darker than the other dungeons.

Molten Facility was pretty fun and Aetherblade Retreat wasn’t too bad. AR was probably the most challenging dungeon to date, for me.

RyuDragnier.9476:

You want a hard mode dungeon? Go to Arah and try fighting the mobs. There’s hard mode. Or just go through Twilight Arbor, which got buffed to where a party of 2 warriors, a necro, an engineer, and a guardian get wiped often.

The only thing remotely hard about Arah mobs are the illusionists when they cast chaos storms on top of themselves so you can’t melee them full time. And how do people get wiped in TA these days? F/U discussion again?

On the topic of hard mode dungeons, I’m going to predict if we get those we will also start seeing threads like “We get punished and get lower rewards for being casual, unfair etc etc”

RyuDragnier.9476:

You want a hard mode dungeon? Go to Arah and try fighting the mobs. There’s hard mode. Or just go through Twilight Arbor, which got buffed to where a party of 2 warriors, a necro, an engineer, and a guardian get wiped often.

That party composition should be just fine for TA…

runeblade.7514:

I wrote long paragraphs before but I could never get around to submit it so I will keep this short.

Dungeons are boring and easy. There needs to be a hard mode. A mode where you have to think even after doing the dungeon 100 times similar to sPvP. Call it hard mode so that players can’t complain how dungeons are hard.

Combat needs to be more like sPvP, where the combat is most fun. Mobs need to be more active. Mobs needs to give more boons that make their attack deadly. Mobs need to chain CC and actually kill the player. Dungeons should not cater to brain dead grinders that wants the game to be easy. Mobs need to evade player’s burst. PvE Hundred Blade Zerkers needs to be as effective as sPvP Hundred blade zerkers.

Battles should never be “Stack here! and DPS the mob down.” Sure, it is a tactic. But it makes the game boring. There needs to be counters to that.

Mob AI should be reactive rather than spammy(See Subject Alpha). Mobs fighting a full group of hundred blade zerkers? Place weakness on them, dodge backwards, observe how sPvP players counter those. Mobs should never be static. Mobs should heal like players can to replace the high hp pool.

Bosses should never be a punching bag. Instead, they should act like your 5 man party is fighting a skilled solo player or a computer AI that cheats.

In conclusion, the dungeon team should observe sPvP and tPvP to design the mob and boss AI. Of course, Computer intelligence will never be the same as human intelligence but when making comptuer AI as close as possible to human intelligence, it can be much more fun than the trash AI we have right now. GW1 was designed the same way, until heroes were added that can instantly interrupt everything. I am sure that GW2 won’t add heroes or henchmen anytime soon.

Why? Because our skills are balanced around sPvP. If we have a PvP/PvE skill split, it still won’t make dungeons any kitten ring. It will make other profession kill faster.

Your title and post content are misleading-you say dungeons should be fixed, but when you elaborate what you’re saying is ‘we need better AI’. Why are they not necessarily the same? A dungeon can be put in with randomly generated environmental threats at a particular say jumping puzzle-it could be difficult. It might not be boring or easy, and you’d still have to pay attention after doing it 100 times-the mobs could still behave like mindless drones. Or to use games to illustrate-‘I want to be the guy gaiden’ is not boring, not easy and you need obscene amounts of dexterity regardless of the amount of times you’ve beaten it but the AI is mindless-it’s not Alma from ‘Ninja Gaiden’.

I’m all for better AI though-not just gw2; it’s something I’ve been clamouring about for years. With all the advancement and focus made on making smoke, walls, water, hair and grass look prettier this past decade or so-why on earth are game still using enemy AI that appears to have been used in the 1990’s? Sadly…it won’t happen-because, as I said it’s not just gw2, rather the entire industry.

WTB adaptive AI

There is a very simple way to “fix” Dungeons: mobs/bosses need MORE hit points (at least double of what they have now) and a lot more damage. They should be able to one-shot players with every hit and take lots of minutes to kill, otherwise it’s not challenging enough. /sarcasm

There, Dungeons “fixed” and nobody will play them, ever, again

Imbune.5497:

I’m all for better AI though-not just gw2; it’s something I’ve been clamouring about for years. With all the advancement and focus made on making smoke, walls, water, hair and grass look prettier this past decade or so-why on earth are game still using enemy AI that appears to have been used in the 1990’s? Sadly…it won’t happen-because, as I said it’s not just gw2, rather the entire industry.

I think a single Skaarj from Unreal 1 (a 1998 game) could beat GW2 dungeons without much human assistance.

There needs to be a real motivation to do dungeons. Exo gear is easy to get, what’s left is grinding out money for legendaries. How about some new exclusive skins available only through hard mode?

swiftpaw.6397:

There needs to be a real motivation to do dungeons. Exo gear is easy to get, what’s left is grinding out money for legendaries. How about some new exclusive skins available only through hard mode?

The Bloodstone Fragment recipe keeps me going.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

swiftpaw.6397:

There needs to be a real motivation to do dungeons. Exo gear is easy to get, what’s left is grinding out money for legendaries. How about some new exclusive skins available only through hard mode?

The Bloodstone Fragment recipe keeps me going.

I don’t even want to grind for that… the RNG is just T_T

swiftpaw.6397:

There needs to be a real motivation to do dungeons. Exo gear is easy to get, what’s left is grinding out money for legendaries. How about some new exclusive skins available only through hard mode?

NOT FAIR!! I’m a casual player and I should be able to have HM exclusive skin!! WAAAAHHHH

(and then next patch anet adds HM exclusive drops to laurel vendors)

The Bloodstone Fragment recipe keeps me going.

There you go again…I swear dude, it’s like there needs to be an intervention or something between you and this …. well everything here but especially baiting and dungeon hardness
It’s beyond compulsive.

Once you get all the in game wealth you could ever want you are free to only have do the dungeons and paths you want to do for the fun of it. That’s when you will quickly figure out which paths of the dungeons are actually fun and which are chores. You’d be surprised how your perspective on that topic will change.

Here’s what I would like to see for dungeons:

Multiple difficulty levels
Dungeon exclusive armor/weapons
Better loot from trash mobs
Less trial and error game play
A more steady difficulty curve
No more one-hit kill bosses
Better “tells” on the attacks of bosses
More forgiving traps/obstacles that respawn you, instead of instantly killing you
More freedom to roam around and explore, no more linear paths

why do you want multiple difficulty levels when you’re only gonna play on Easy

That was pretty mean.

I’d just like to not have to change character every time I want to repeat the path if I want a full 60 tokens. Like, sure, it’s an anti-farm measure and bla bla bla. But it’s also anti-fun

Player Character.9467:

RyuDragnier.9476:

You want a hard mode dungeon? Go to Arah and try fighting the mobs. There’s hard mode. Or just go through Twilight Arbor, which got buffed to where a party of 2 warriors, a necro, an engineer, and a guardian get wiped often.

That party composition should be just fine for TA…

We wiped on the worms near the beginning, we wiped on the spiders, we wiped at least once on every boss. Wasn’t a case of teamwork either, because we were all synced well. Both the warriors and the engineer were glass cannon, and the guardian was set up as buff support. My necro was set up for condition support (cleansing them, throwing all of them on foes, etc). It’s odd because a few months ago this would never have happened, we’d have wiped all the enemies without problems. I don’t remember reading about a buff to TA, but just from fighting in there I can tell it seems like they buffed quite a few things.

But dungeons are hard! Stop doing CoF P1 and you will see.

runeblade.7514:

Dungeons are boring and easy. There needs to be a hard mode.

No. The game doesn’t need hard mode. The dungeons are already hard enough…I agree that the bosses lack AI and are just a punching bag until their 99999^99 health drops, but considering you can only have two dodge roll, it would be very difficult to have bosses with real AI attacking and moving in all directions….

What needs to be fixed first is a armor burden/wight stat, and based on your armor’s wight, you can dodge roll more or less. It is not fair if a tanky heavy armor guardian has the same dodge roll as a light armor necro/ele…once this gets fixed then we can have harder bosses and someone can choose to go in the fight naked or lighter armor because without being able to dodge the attack, you are basically open to get punch in the face….

If you want hard mode, then you can go and solo arah or fractals…no need to make dungeons worst than what they are right now…

RyuDragnier.9476:

We wiped on the worms near the beginning, we wiped on the spiders, we wiped at least once on every boss. Wasn’t a case of teamwork either, because we were all synced well. Both the warriors and the engineer were glass cannon, and the guardian was set up as buff support. My necro was set up for condition support (cleansing them, throwing all of them on foes, etc). It’s odd because a few months ago this would never have happened, we’d have wiped all the enemies without problems. I don’t remember reading about a buff to TA, but just from fighting in there I can tell it seems like they buffed quite a few things.

They didn’t buff TA.

maddoctor.2738:

There is a very simple way to “fix” Dungeons: mobs/bosses need MORE hit points (at least double of what they have now) and a lot more damage. They should be able to one-shot players with every hit and take lots of minutes to kill, otherwise it’s not challenging enough. /sarcasm

There, Dungeons “fixed” and nobody will play them, ever, again

Oh, phew. For a second there, I thought you were serious. All of my Internet Rage nerves were tingling. Well played, sir and/or madam.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Player Character.9467:

RyuDragnier.9476:

You want a hard mode dungeon? Go to Arah and try fighting the mobs. There’s hard mode. Or just go through Twilight Arbor, which got buffed to where a party of 2 warriors, a necro, an engineer, and a guardian get wiped often.

That party composition should be just fine for TA…

We wiped on the worms near the beginning, we wiped on the spiders, we wiped at least once on every boss. Wasn’t a case of teamwork either, because we were all synced well. Both the warriors and the engineer were glass cannon, and the guardian was set up as buff support. My necro was set up for condition support (cleansing them, throwing all of them on foes, etc). It’s odd because a few months ago this would never have happened, we’d have wiped all the enemies without problems. I don’t remember reading about a buff to TA, but just from fighting in there I can tell it seems like they buffed quite a few things.

They havn’t change TA.
And Arah isn’t hard at all. Only thing that is hard about Arah is Lupicus (and that other boss I forgot the name).

How hard is that V
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0RR2iHrEHA

snaplemouton.1294:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Player Character.9467:

RyuDragnier.9476:

You want a hard mode dungeon? Go to Arah and try fighting the mobs. There’s hard mode. Or just go through Twilight Arbor, which got buffed to where a party of 2 warriors, a necro, an engineer, and a guardian get wiped often.

That party composition should be just fine for TA…

We wiped on the worms near the beginning, we wiped on the spiders, we wiped at least once on every boss. Wasn’t a case of teamwork either, because we were all synced well. Both the warriors and the engineer were glass cannon, and the guardian was set up as buff support. My necro was set up for condition support (cleansing them, throwing all of them on foes, etc). It’s odd because a few months ago this would never have happened, we’d have wiped all the enemies without problems. I don’t remember reading about a buff to TA, but just from fighting in there I can tell it seems like they buffed quite a few things.

They havn’t change TA.

It sure feels like they have.

Do you have an organized party?
no? → Dungeons are hard
yes? next question

Does most of the party know their class mechanics?
no? → Dungeons are hard
yes? next question

Does most of the party know the dungeon?
no? → Dungeons can be tricky at times
yes? We need hard mode

Wukunlin.8461:

Do you have an organized party?
no? -> Dungeons are hard
yes? next question

Does most of the party know their class mechanics?
no? -> Dungeons are hard
yes? next question

Does most of the party know the dungeon?
no? -> Dungeons can be tricky at times
yes? We need hard mode

I always play in PuGs and I don’t find dungeons hard in the least /: if anything annoying because other people decide to do their own thing, but never hard. I agree though there needs to be a new dungeon or a hard mode system set up.

viciouspike.8624:

Wukunlin.8461:

Do you have an organized party?
no? -> Dungeons are hard
yes? next question

Does most of the party know their class mechanics?
no? -> Dungeons are hard
yes? next question

Does most of the party know the dungeon?
no? -> Dungeons can be tricky at times
yes? We need hard mode

I always play in PuGs and I don’t find dungeons hard in the least /: if anything annoying because other people decide to do their own thing, but never hard. I agree though there needs to be a new dungeon or a hard mode system set up.

but… but…

aophts.9862:

But dungeons are hard! Stop doing CoF P1 and you will see.

maddoctor.2738:

There is a very simple way to “fix” Dungeons: mobs/bosses need MORE hit points (at least double of what they have now) and a lot more damage. They should be able to one-shot players with every hit and take lots of minutes to kill, otherwise it’s not challenging enough. /sarcasm

There, Dungeons “fixed” and nobody will play them, ever, again

I know you’re being sarcastic, but if ANET installed such changes for a HARD Mode and quadrupled the rewards for each path, relative to NORMAL Mode, there would be people wanting to run them. Imagine if COF path 1 took 10-15 mins instead of the current 6-8mins (PUG times), but you got rewarded with 4x the amount of money? Hell, even 3x the money would make it worth it.

RyuDragnier.9476:

You want a hard mode dungeon? Go to Arah and try fighting the mobs. There’s hard mode. Or just go through Twilight Arbor, which got buffed to where a party of 2 warriors, a necro, an engineer, and a guardian get wiped often.

dude next time run 5 guards party through TA or Arah (trust me its a slow but steady faceroll inside well except simin which u’ll switch for dps toons)

Empressium.5482:

RyuDragnier.9476:

You want a hard mode dungeon? Go to Arah and try fighting the mobs. There’s hard mode. Or just go through Twilight Arbor, which got buffed to where a party of 2 warriors, a necro, an engineer, and a guardian get wiped often.

dude next time run 5 guards party through TA or Arah (trust me its a slow but steady faceroll inside well except simin which u’ll switch for dps toons)

You can kill Simin with 3 players. I’d really hope that you wouldn’t have to switch off of Guardians, if you have 5 players.

Did he just say 5 Guardians can’t DPS?

Where’s Dub when we actually need him?

5 pvt/clerics/mf guardians*

mace/shield/staff sentinel/cleric’s guard

I heal my team I’m a paladinnnnnnn

Broadicea.8294:

mace/shield/staff sentinel/cleric’s guard

I heal my team I’m a paladinnnnnnn

I bow down to you and kiss your feets. Share with me, your wisdom Sensei.

Broadicea.8294:

mace/shield/staff sentinel/cleric’s guard

I heal my team I’m a paladinnnnnnn

Nah, paladins actually kill things.

Player Character.9467:

Broadicea.8294:

mace/shield/staff sentinel/cleric’s guard

I heal my team I’m a paladinnnnnnn

Nah, paladins actually kill things.

A True Paladin Will Sheath His Sword

Wukunlin.8461:

Player Character.9467:

Broadicea.8294:

mace/shield/staff sentinel/cleric’s guard

I heal my team I’m a paladinnnnnnn

Nah, paladins actually kill things.

A True Paladin Will Sheath His Sword

Turn undead.

Try to use some unconventional profession/party composition, without abusing LoS, and stacking and see that PvE is not so easy after all.

If you look for the path with least resistance and you find it, complaining about the game being easy is plain wrong.

I just think that this way of thinking anet gave credit too much is Dangerous to the game.

And the desert that is ascalon catacombs nowaday its the result.

Anet should just work on profession balance, when some profession will be unable to carry alone Whole parties via raw DPS or OP support, then complaints will stop mostly.

P.S. the most funny part is when a player says that PvE is dumbed down then complains about pets/illusions/minions in PvP….
Quite funny i would say.

P.P.S. and knowing profession mechanics is different from dpsing stacked behind a corner with 100% reflect uptime…..
A good player can finish anything with any party….
Most of complainers need guardians and warriors

nothing is easy if you run around like headless chickens

Wukunlin.8461:

nothing is easy if you run around like headless chickens

Unless you are intending to be a headless chicken. I personally enjoy the ’I’m a special education student’ routine that many pugs fashion.