Guild Wars 2

Like with many posts, honestly ~ Dungeons are just not pug or casual friendly. Even fotm isn’t really ‘that’ pug friendly, especially in the 1 – 9 bracket which is notoriously bad. Alot of players are and have indeed quit the game because of dungeon content being pretty hardcore – so what got me thinking is that all dungeons, need revamping.

All current dungeons need to be made easier, some paths only need some minor tweaks but some other paths need a major revamp so casual players and pugs can go in, down content ~ get tokens ~ thanks for the group and move on without wasting other players time.

Now, obviously the hardcore elitist types will cry at this. So in order to cater to everyone ~ Hardmode versions needs to be created, without un-balancing the loot table basically these dungeons should have separate achievements and title rewards.

This way, both the casual players and the hardcore players both have content available – less complaining/less whining and thats better for everyone right?

For a start ~ all bosses could easily have damage reduced and HP pool significantly reduced. All paths should have less large groups of ‘silvers’ grouped together. Mechanics which require the players to work together such as CoE or CM should be nerfed so the degree of precision needed to progress is forgiving of errors.

At this point, I dont think the problem is as broad as it was anymore, but I agree that its still a problem.

Ive been running CM alot lately, and I STILL havent found one group that will do it legitly, and honestly I cant blame them, because things like the cave in path 1 are un-balanced to a crazy degree.

They have a consistency problem with this, on top of everything else…

They’re “working on it” with “fixes” coming soon™.

Dungeons aren’t hard, even for new players. They can be long winded if the whole team is only wearing greens, but they are still possible.

I’ve never done a dungeon without first watching a quick youtube video on it so I no roughly what I’m doing and understand which bosses/fights are going to have mechanics I need to understand to avoid instant death etc.

I’ve only ever done dungeons in PuGs picked up from map chat or gw2lfg, so if your having difficulty you need to watch videos and gear up a little better.

Although I will admit groups composition can really influence how easy a dungeon is. Without a couple of warriors or guardians for condition removal some fights are more complex.

Dungeons are hard due to their difficulty being tied to certain strategies you have to discover without a clue….

Dungeons for beginners are really difficult….despite after the 100TH time you play them you find them easy….

The issue are those players that did them 100 times and comes here to tell how easily they can do their runs….

The real thing is we need more dungeons/fractals,

Fractals are popular because some players discovered that playing them with random players is a new jurney every time with new strategies too…..

Some players with their fixed Group that plays them everytime in the same way just get to max level and get bored instead…

Then proceed to come here to say how they are easy…

There is almost no content in the world that could make them happy possibly….

They could just start to play with new class/build combinations or random people….there are so many ways to make a dungeon more challenging…

For example, given the fact that dungeons are difficult for many players, those who already find them easy should try them without exotic equipment…

But despite they say they could do that they still don t do that.

LordByron.8369:

Dungeons are hard due to their difficulty being tied to certain strategies you have to discover without a clue….

Dungeons for beginners are really difficult….despite after the 100TH time you play them you find them easy….

There is so much information available on how to tackle each dungeon, ignorance is not an excuse for failing.

If working out the mechanic on your own through trial and error is to much for you then do some research.

If I’m new to a dungeon then you just mention it and 80% of groups wont have a problem with that. It only takes a few lines of text to quickly explain what they need you to do in each section.

LordByron.8369:

For example, given the fact that dungeons are difficult for many players, those who already find them easy should try them without exotic equipment…

But despite they say they could do that they still don t do that.

I’ve been doing dungeons for around 2-3 weeks and started with no exotics. I now have 5-6 pieces. How do you figure most people with exotics acquired them? By doing dungeons without them.

Of course it gets easier with exotic gear. But that’s the reward for doing the dungeon and gaining exotic gear surely?

LordByron.8369:

Dungeons are hard due to their difficulty being tied to certain strategies you have to discover without a clue….

Such as?
For the most part, even without looking up anything beforehand, you can figure out some basic strategies for bosses by :
- Working out which animations prelude heavy damage (eg, Kholer)
- Looking at the tooltip on various status effects on the boss (eg, Lupi’s grub-buff)
- Finding places to avoid red circles (eg, Stacking on Alpha to escape the cone attack)

Sure, it may take a couple of wipes, but there’s always something there to let you know what’s happening. The problem is that many groups are too willing to continually throw themselves mindlessly at the boss and hope, rather than take a moment to talk the problem through.

For the OP, I don’t pretend to be omg-leet, and yet I have successfully pugged all dungeons (although not all paths of all dungeons yet – there are a couple that it’s hard to find a group willing to attempt). And this has included undergeared teams, teams with players unfamilar with the dungeon, odd profession combinations (4 Thieves and a mesmer was actually pretty fun), and even some runs with players of a lower level than the dungeon.
The thing is, the dungeon paths are already pretty unbalanced in terms of time vs difficulty vs reward – Anet balancing for an entirely new tier is a lot to ask for rather than simply expect people to improve how they play.

Romer.1034:

There is so much information available on how to tackle each dungeon, ignorance is not an excuse for failing.

and when you have to watch a vid of a game in order to complete a part its not well designed.

Old players used to call this cheating……
Is actually the first form of it watching solutions on youtube and forums…..

Its like what happened with dark and demon soul….a game really easy that punished you for not knowing what was going to happen…yet it didn t give you any hint…..

So you die often ….unless you watch youtube and then all is boringly easy……(skill is not needed at all).

I’ve been doing dungeons for around 2-3 weeks and started with no exotics. I now have 5-6 pieces. How do you figure most people with exotics acquired them? By doing dungeons without them.

Of course it gets easier with exotic gear. But that’s the reward for doing the dungeon and gaining exotic gear surely?

by doing simple dugeons….
Proof that actually dungeon are played mostly for the reward rather than for fun….

This is actually the second problem of many mmorpgs.

See people complaining about AC being too easy -.-
Instead of getting more difficult as you get stronger it just becomes easier and its really hard for people that should play it (see random lvl 35 in blue/green gear…).

3rd problem is whatever i could say about a dungeon i’d still get tons of post with L2P……

I almost only play dungeon/fractals….i have almost any problems (despite i find some things unfun like mossman post patch invisible Attacks etc i have workarounds for those…)….

The fact that i understand issues many players have with dungeons, i receive so many L2p answers…….

Yet in game i see a high% that have issues with dungeons…..

I don’t think gw2lfg is bad stuff, no, it very handy and useful! shame we need to use it instate of fast and nice dungeon finder used in advanced games.

Dungeons are hard, long and very annoying for beginners and random groups.

So or we going back to selective choice of group (and will left all who can’t be the best, behind), pug avoiding. class selections and even creation of healer.

Or may them easy and fun for all like DE,; or make 2 kind of them with similar rewards but different quantity (like 2:5) easy and hard mod (for imba guys to practice); or give up this idea as so far seems nor of these groups are satisfied.

Anyhow it need to have big revamp.

P.S. while revamping, please don’t forget to add merch NPC near the entrance of all of them.

This would not work because the casuals would cry that they cannot complete the hardmode dungeons for better loot. This has happened everytime a hardmode and casual mode dungeons have been implemented with different loot.

The only way this would be feasable is if the loot was the same. But then no one would do hardmodes.

Ruprect.7260:

This would not work because the bads would cry that they cannot complete the hardmode dungeons for better loot.

FTFY. Casual does not imply bad, the converse is not true as well.

I agree with OP. Dungeons need revamp. After completing them 100s of times they are too easy. Even puging doesn’t help- I see wipes too rarely.

why people play only for the loot?
Maybe for the same reason many players wants harder dungeons once they find them easy?

If you tell me that pugging arah or coe or some TA path or again fractals is too easy…or you are too good for this game (and possible any game) and should not be considered while balancing, or we play a different game….

Also rewards could be toned up just slightly…

I.E. 60 tokens for a normal run, 90 tokens for a very hard….
After all they want challenge not exclusive content….or is it something other they want?

Most of my runs are in PUGs. My favourite dungeons, which I try to complete daily are Arah, CoE because I like challange. It used to be TA too but I have too many tokens from there so I rarely run it now;)
I don’t play for loot- for me it’s only addition. But most of the people play only for rewards- be it loot or achievement.
My start with dungeons was harsh- many deaths of course. People crying, quitting...all the drama. But like I said- I love challange, I got used to mechanics, got my Dungeon Master title. Contrary to this- I haven’t yet achieved 100% map completion nor finished personal story- I find it too easy, no challange at all, left it for times when I am really bored and have nothing to do.

I think that’s the whole point of asking for a revamp of dungeons.

As a beginner to dungeons I can safely say it’s the most frustrating experience I’ve had in GW2. I’ve looked at online advice and like most online stuff it sometimes works and other times is useless. The groups I’ve played with have been very supportive despite my lack of experience, but I don’t seem to be dying much more often than the more experienced players. Chat suggests they can find it as frustrating as I do.

I also find it very frustrating that I’m making a net loss on dungeons at the moment. It costs more to have my armour repaired than I get in coin/loot. The items I pick up are a relevant level but usually not useable by my character, and I can’t sell them on Trading Post for enough to cover the difference. Add to this the fact that Dungeons are part of the Monthly Achievement ladder, so if I want to get that I MUST do them… and I’m left with a bit of a sour feeling about the issue.

I understand the experienced players who want a challenge. Dungeons shouldn’t be easy but if they’re no fun for the rest of us then what’s the point of making it part of an achievement ladder? Why not make them appeal to a wider range of GW2 players, or are they for an exclusive few?

For those who want to flame me for admitting that I find them hard – ok, you find it easy – I respect the time and skill to achieve that. Now instead of flaming me, how about showing me (and other like me) how to survive!

I’d definitely favour a Standard mode that gave beginners a chance, and a Hardcore mode that scaled the opponents according to the Dungeon Master progress of the players.

Iehova.9518:

Ruprect.7260:

This would not work because the bads would cry that they cannot complete the hardmode dungeons for better loot.

FTFY. Casual does not imply bad, the converse is not true as well.

Confused by this. I did not imply bad??

Anyway, I would love to see video of a group finishing Arah p4 without a death, CoE without a death, esp p3 with the rediculous lava boss, CM p2. All of you so called pros pony up and lets see.

What does not make sense to me is the huge difference in difficulty instead of a progression of difficulty. The dungeons are all over the place.

I agree with revamp and just create a progression instead of a wall. AC is super easy, then you get to CM and p1 isn’t too bad but p2 is rediculous then p3 is ok to a point. Then you jump way ahead to a near endgame dungeon, CoF, super easy. How does that make sense.

Make the dungeons difficult but creat a steady progression or make them all the same difficulty.