Guild Wars 2

Koga.7215:

AC with all lv 35 alts in blue/green is a joke, but AC with a full set of new lv35’s in the same gear is hard. Why is this? well the alts have experience with this games system (much different from every other MMO) and know how to play. the new players do not yet understand how group dynamics work in GW2 and how to deal with dung runs go, making it seam more difficult then it is.

Now lv30 fractal or higher level dung are easier? well when you consider the extra experience in GW2 that people have by then it is to be expected. By the time your doing fractal 30 you know the fractals inside and out, know exactly what and when to dodge and have done them all MANY MANY times making them easy and Zzzz.

Take a fresh group of 80’s give them best gear and 30AR and toss them into a frac 30 (w/o ever doing a fractal before, or at max doing just the pre lv10 runs w/o agony and all mechanics, hell even give them the stratagies) and watch how bad they will fail, or how long it will take them.

It is simple, it takes time to adjust to the way the game works and this is why the first few dung are so hard to new players. and add the fact that many quickly take to the grave run strategy rather than figure out the proper way only makes it worse.

I think you’ve nailed the problem.

I don’t have an issue with hard dungeons, in fact I look forward to attempting challenging fights. But when I step into my FIRST DUNGEON with a few friends and a few pugs, which is CLEARLY labeled a level 30 dungeon I don’t expect to be knocked on my kitten multiple times before even getting to the first boss. I expect to be eased into the system so I can gradually adapt and adjust my play style. The current system fails to do this and will fail to allow casual players to enjoy dungeons, even in their easy modes.

This is a case of breaking expectations. Up until the point where I start doing the first dungeon (AC) I’m lead to believe that everything that I’ve accomplished to this point means I’ll have a good shot at completing this dungeon. There is no reason to doubt this assumption, no warning signs, in fact I’m encouraged by the fact that I’m level 38 which is 8 levels above the listed level which means my gear should be a little better than expected for the dungeon. Right? There are no warning signs saying “It would be better if you waited till you were 80 to do this”. There is nothing to warn me that this is going to be a MASSIVE jump in difficulty from what I’ve previously experienced. So I go ahead and have an absolutely horrible experience, by far the worst in this game.

That is the main issue here, not dungeon difficulty.

TL;DR: Dungeons can be as difficult as they need to be but the game should manage the player’s expectations so they don’t see content as accessible until it actually is.

In case anyone missed it. I completed this dungeon with an 8 and a 10 year old. It was their first time in this dungeon. They completed it on their first try with myself as their guide. They Didnt break down in tears and write a post out in bold and caps. They want to do it again because thwy think it was fun. That is all.

Slither Shade.4782:

In case anyone missed it. I completed this dungeon with an 8 and a 10 year old. It was their first time in this dungeon. They completed it on their first try with myself as their guide. They Didnt break down in tears and write a post out in bold and caps. They want to do it again because thwy think it was fun. That is all.

Congrats.

The amount of players replying to this thread alone is a sign that this is not the normal experience.

I’ll reinstate my main point: Dungeons can be as difficult as they need to be but the game should manage the player’s expectations so they don’t see content as accessible until it actually is.

Pandabro.8743:

Slither Shade.4782:

In case anyone missed it. I completed this dungeon with an 8 and a 10 year old. It was their first time in this dungeon. They completed it on their first try with myself as their guide. They Didnt break down in tears and write a post out in bold and caps. They want to do it again because thwy think it was fun. That is all.

Congrats.

The amount of players replying to this thread alone is a sign that this is not the normal experience.

I’ll reinstate my main point: Dungeons can be as difficult as they need to be but the game should manage the player’s expectations so they don’t see content as accessible until it actually is.

AC is easily done at lv30 in blues without any high level help. they have been made easier since release and they were done at 30 in blues without any high levels then too.

point is not that they dont manage your expectations, the problem is your expectation is it will be the same as others games you have played and it is not and you need to adjust how you play to succeed. even with such warning was to be placed across your screen in huge red letters, those who fail miserably will still because it takes time to adjust (be it figuring it out yourself or getting to trying something different sooner when your failing from some warning when you enter). those who can not complete AC at 30 (story) or 35(exp) will still not complete it and those of us who have no issues would still have no issues.

I hate to say it, but this is simply a L2P issue… this isnt WoW, LOTRO, Rift, or w/e other MMO you are used to and it takes some time to adjust. Some of us get it within the first few bosses in AC story and some still have not got it by the time they are 80 and done many dung runs (pulled through by the rest of their party).

I just ran my first GW2 dungeon the other night (AC story mode) and I have to say I was a little surprised at the difficulty/harshness of it, since I had heard story mode was easy. I consider myself a veteran mmo player, (8+ years in a variety of games) and I certainly don’t mind a good challenge, but it was still surprising. About half of the difficulty in my opinion has to do with camera issues – fighting in some of the many smaller rooms or narrow corridors with all of the spell effects can make it next to impossible to see what is going on, resulting in confusion and easy deaths.

The remainder of the surprise was how difficult it was to kill trash mobs, which seemed to take forever to down. Bosses were mostly killed by repeated death-zerg. It felt like I didn’t have time to do anything since I was spending all of my time constantly running/dodging/trying not to die – very fast paced chaos. My group was composed of 5 people: Me (lvl 31), few lvl 32-36ish and a lvl 80 – all of whom had done this dungeon many times before except me. (I had thought that the lvl 80 in our group was automatically nerfed to be level appropriate for the dungeon, but after reading this forum I am getting the impression that game feature hasn’t been implemented yet. If not, then the dungeon was even harder than I realized.)

Although we cleared the place, our group seemed to have a pretty difficult time, and I switched to being an almost full-time healer for most of the run. I was very surprised when, at one point, one of the party members said “Wow either they nerfed this place to hell or we have a great group.” The others agreed. Since I had assumed I was probably in a crappy group, this comment made me really wonder what a bad group run might be like.

When we finished, I asked if the normal/exp version of the dungeon was easier or harder, and everyone said it was A LOT harder.

By the end, I wasn’t looking to go back into any dungeons again anytime soon. I assume I will get used to the faster-paced chaos of it, but for the first dungeon in the game (on “story mode” it felt like an awful amount of work.

Koga.7215:

AC is easily done at lv30 in blues without any high level help. they have been made easier since release and they were done at 30 in blues without any high levels then too.

point is not that they dont manage your expectations, the problem is your expectation is it will be the same as others games you have played and it is not and you need to adjust how you play to succeed. even with such warning was to be placed across your screen in huge red letters, those who fail miserably will still because it takes time to adjust (be it figuring it out yourself or getting to trying something different sooner when your failing from some warning when you enter). those who can not complete AC at 30 (story) or 35(exp) will still not complete it and those of us who have no issues would still have no issues.

I hate to say it, but this is simply a L2P issue… this isnt WoW, LOTRO, Rift, or w/e other MMO you are used to and it takes some time to adjust. Some of us get it within the first few bosses in AC story and some still have not got it by the time they are 80 and done many dung runs (pulled through by the rest of their party).

I understand where you are coming from and I respect that you want dungeons to be challenging. I do too! I love a challenge, when I am expecting and prepared for it, but the first dungeon you come to while you are still learning the ropes of the game should not backhand you this hard.

This is straight up bad UX. Saying I should L2P is exactly right, I AM still learning to play, so why am I being thrown against a wall which seems insurmountable at this time? Isn’t it better to teach players how to do dungeons with the first few experiences by gradually introducing them to mechanics rather than throwing multiple challenges at them at once and saying “Deal with it”?

Sure there are other things I can do in the world, which I love, but I’ve been told by multiple official sources that this dungeon is within my grasps.

Can you see where I’m coming from?

I don’t want to take all the challenge away from this game, really I don’t. I want to be forced to use my class to the fullest once I’ve mastered it at 80 but I feel defeated and unmotivated to play when that challenge is thrown at me when I’m still “L2P”. I’ve done the research and I know I’m not alone in this.

Making content appropriately accessible and managing expectations is good for the whole game. It means more players stay engaged for longer, rather than dropping out and moving to other games, which means they are more likely to recommend it to their friends and that means more money coming into ArenaNet so they can keep producing content for those who want a challenge. It’s a win for everyone involved.

LordByron.8369:

Malediktus.9250:

LordByron.8369:

The fact is dungeons are somehow balanced on lvl 80 in exotics….or around certain classes.

Many people will say they can do them with one hand at level 1 with their monitor shut down, but from a player that plays almost only dungeons and fotm i can tell you to just ignore them, they would say they can solo arah explorer in all white items if someone said its too difficult……..

Imho its harder to bet a lvl 35 AC explorable, at lvl 35 that a lvl 30 fractal properly equipped…..

Also because at low level people cannot afford many things high lvl players use (food, potions proper equip/build etc etc etc).

False, they are balanced for their shown level. They are meant to be challanging. Obviously getting downscaled with exotic/ascended/runes/sigills/infusions all traits will make it easier.

cof, hotw and coe are way easier than AC.

If you want to show your skill on a forum making newbies think they just are not good enough for the game….well gratz…..

I pass 99% of my time in dungeons and high lvl fotm and i think AC is excessively hard for a lvl 35……

Hard =/= impossible……but for sure harder than any endgame dungeon.
There are fewer players able to face ac with a lvl 35 party than people able to complete hotw, and lvl 30 fotm possibly.

Also in any content the difference between a lvl 79, a lvl 80 and a lvl 80 exotic geared player is excessive and getting worse with ascended gear.

are all those 35 in full exortic gear? else i would like to see that group of 80 doing arah in blue gear with easier time;)

when thats said cof is crazy easy in comparison yes.

i actually think ac got one of the best difficulties for early trying dungeons (meaning after your lvl 80.. dont see the dungeons as anything you should try before 80. unless you like dying and rqers )

after that i will add that there seriously should be difficulty choices so lower lvls could enjoy dungeons WHILE lvling. and maybe even a more hardcore mode for those that seek an impossible challenge “all silver are golds, all golds legendary etc”.

why don t we set up a lvl <60 (green/blue stuff) of all people saying its easy
I just want to see them……..

I know on this forum the leit motif is L2P is just fun when you actually meet some of those people in random dungeons you see their skill is mostly at talk…..

AC is quite difficult at ghosts because you need DPS and survivability AND you just have 1 chance.
If you fail once next try has twice the ghosts……(if they didn t fix it).

I really want to see how can all those lvl35 put on dmg and defense. with few skills and traits also…..

Am i the only one that can avoid any Alpha aoe in coe or 3 men fotm 28 and just admit AC is hard for lvl 35?

Also try to run it without guardians……i know a guardian or 2 makes everything easy….

All I’m gonna say is clearly someone doesn’t keep up with the blog posts. They already said they wanna revamp dungeons and their encounters. Will it be tomorrow or next week? No, but they have said there are plans to, ideally, make them better.

AC is also harder for a level 30 (SM) and 35 (EM) because they still wear gear well below their level.

And then dungeons aren’t made to be completed by 5 strangers working on their own. They are meant to be completed as a team.
This doesn’t mean that you have to talk and plan strategies (it helps) but you need to take skills to help others. It’s not because you know you won’t suffer any conditions that you shouldn’t take condition removal for others. Or that you should place your wall of reflection only for yourself instead of positioning yourself so everyone can be protected by it.