Guild Wars 2

I’m going to start by saying I’ve never been in a dungeon. I have a level 80 ele (only recently 80) and a 54 warrior and I’ve never been near one; probably mainly due to me being busy with levelling but also because I find them quite daunting.

I’m played dungeon type party quests on other MMO’s and sure, they’re a bit scary to start with but they soon become simple once you know what you’re doing.

The problem I find with GW2 is there’s absolutely no way I feel I could enter a dungeon group and learn properly. I read guides and they rant about things I don’t understand, they list gear and runes I don’t have, they talk about things like stacking 25 Might which nobody has every informed me how to do, etc etc.

My question is am I overreacting? Do I just need to give them a go and stop worrying about the fine details? Are guides on the forums knit-picking at details that most users don’t worry about? I’m in a nice guild and people regularly run fractals and CoF but they’re always a bit reluctant about taking new people on because they can’t be bothered teaching.

Saying all this, I thought the exact same about PvP but jumped onto a game anyway and was actually having a lot of fun even if I was a bit pants.

What do you guys think? Did you feel the same before you started running them regularly? Does reading forums and guides make them sound more daunting than they are?

I think you should give them a go, but also, if you want patient and competent teachers, give dungeon mentors a shot. The sticky up top might help, if you’re interested.

Dungeons are daunting to first time players. They were to me. A lot of it is practice. If you don’t get in them, though, you’ll never get to see the awesomeness that is dungeons!

Dekeyz has a massively excellent guide for Ele, which presents not only many variations of builds but also videos of how to do rotation and how to play ele in a certain dungeon settings.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Guide-DPS-Elementalist-for-PvE/first

When I first got into my ele, what I did is to follow these guides like Dekeyz, get the feel of how I could survive with the new builds and compare it to how I used to perform. Then I started to invest more in expensive runes/sigils as I improved my skills. As Lilith has said, a lot is practice. If reading isn’t your thing, watching videos on youtube, either video guides like Dekeyz’s or Ele’s PoVs in any record speedrun helps tremendously.

Pffff…. daunting. They’re daunting if you give up after a few wipes and smash your head against the obstacles instead of thinking of a way to get past it. The only dungeon I can consider “daunting” for a noob is Arah. And this is why there are lower level dungeons.
Just join the mentor guild and they’ll hold your hand through dungeons, I guess.
I won’t suggest you to be autonomous and do as we did, because it seems like nowadays AC in a full newbies team is impossible, ohmahgawd.

I didnt fellow any guide but i learn from my mistake and study environment + i did play since the beta so bosses strategy and such was more intuitive then nothing. Guides wont do the job for you just as well as a good deduction and sharpened instincts will (even without knowing a boss fight fully you can study how the boss works mid way and deduce on your own all its mechanics).

I’ve actually been in all dungeon paths in this game by now, mostly with groups from my casual guild, but I still feel a lot similar to what you are describing. We’re having fun and can do all paths when the right people get together, but I still don’t know half of the intricacies of dungeon builds and dungeon running that seem to be expected knowledge in random groups. In fact, I don’t even get most of the jokes made on this forum since I have no clue how experienced groups actually run the paths that are around.

Personally I have started reading this forum hoping to pick up a few things as well as collecting exotic berserker equipment for my mesmer. Once that is finished I’m hoping to get up the nerve to actually talk one of the dungeon mentors into taking me to a dungeon, to turn me from totally clueless (I know my class but I haven’t the faintest idea about accepted or expected behavior in random dungeon groups) into fit enough to dare join random groups.

That said, there are a few paths that even I dare to pug already. Story dungeons are usually fine, especially if it’s mixed level groups for the earlier dungeons. I’ve also been in a few Twilight Arbour pugs that were pretty self-explanatory. I haven’t had as much luck with Ascalon Catacombs, since it seems correct stacking spots and such is not as intuitive in there, but I might’ve just been unlucky with groups in there.

Bottom line: Yes, I did (and in many cases still do) feel the same way about dungeons, but having seen the dungeons (although casually, in groups that many here probably would run away from screaming ) it’s totally worth it getting into them, most are really fun and awesome to see.

deSade.9437:

Pffff…. daunting. They’re daunting if you give up after a few wipes and smash your head against the obstacles instead of thinking of a way to get past it. The only dungeon I can consider “daunting” for a noob is Arah. And this is why there are lower level dungeons.

I don’t know about the thread opener, but personally I can say that it’s not so much the dungeons themselves that are daunting, but the people running them. There seems to be so much “common knowledge” around these days that is expected by all but simply not common knowledge to me, that it makes me feel like I’m making a fool of myself by not knowing all those things.

Well to be fair guys. Dungeon running is being refine for almost 1 year and a half. People that been running them from that long, know them by heart and push the limits of what they can do farther and farther since then. Its normal that the level of discussion you get in some forum tread or in some guide may be way over your head. But its not a big deal. The first time i did AC path 1, we were a full guild group at the beginning of the game without any information. It took us 3 hours before we gave up on the second room (with the burrows). But now we can do the whole path in 15min without thinking about it.

It’s a shame that your guild won’t bring new player to explain to them, but i can see 1 reason. Explaining a dungeon over the map chat is not fun at all. If they have a VOIP you should take the effort to get on it and make their life easier to teach you.

Otherwise the Dungeon Mentor tread is a good place to get some ppl to teach you dungeon. After you know the basic of the dungeon then its only practice and slowly incorporate all the higher end stuff.
1) Know the basic of the path so you can follow a group in the dungeon
2) Gear up in exotic
3) Practice to know the path well enough to lead a group in the dungeon
4) Master enough the game to stack might, use more active defense and use more DPS build.

This can take you from a couple weeks to a couple months (or even never) depending on you level of skill, how much time you play the game and simply what you want to do in the end.

Don’t be intimidated.
Head over to youtube and type in a dungeon name and path (i.e. story, p1, etc) Its quicker to learn by seeing it done. Once you are comfortable with normal type runs you can even try researching speed runs to see what professions and equipment you will need to bring.

There are videos from players doing commented paths that you can find on youtube. While they are generally quite long to watch they provide interesting insight on how to properly run a dungeon.

Thanks for the input guys, glad to hear I’m not the only one to have felt this. I will give some videos a go as it seems like reading the guides is over-complicating things. I wouldn’t say I’m an amazing player but I can hold my own against champions even while up close on my ele so I think I’d eventually get the hang of dungeons.

I will probably give my guild a proper ask in the next few weeks once I’ve sorted some better gear out for myself. They do regularly ask if anyone is up for Fractals or CoF but they’re normally expecting someone a bit more experienced to reply. It would be a shame for me to miss out on them as it would be myself and my soon-to-be level 80 guardian friend tagging on and we play very regularly.

I guess most of it will just come down to trial and error though!

I do understand what you mean. I love running dungeons. When I started the biggest issue for me was the flack and abuse i sometimes got because i didn’t know the paths, what to do, how to support a group properly etc.

However I would recommend that you use the “looking for group” function:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lfg

Pick the dungeon you want to run and look at the groups who are advertising for members. I would recommend running a dungeon a few times in story mode to get an feel for group play. When you join a group, change your chat status from “say” to “group”. TELL you group that you are new to dungeons. Most players are very happy to tell you what to do in each section of a dungeon. But if you don’t speak up I/we assume you know what to do. Communication is the key.

Also if people give you abuse, leave the party and dungeon and find a new group. Its only a game, you shouldn’t have to put up with abuse/rudeness.

Finally, when you get close to L80, speed running dungeons are a great way to earn lost of Gold and Karma. Make sure you drop Magic Find and Gold find boosts (either food or boosters) when you run for that extra bit of cash, karma and general loot goodie-ness.

Hope that helps in some way.

Ta!

Most of the pug groups dont have a clue about how to stack might and what are the meta builds for dungeons. If you join groups advertising for “experienced” players you will see lots of staff guardians and other terrible builds played by people with 11k+ achievement points and dungeon master title.

So, if you just watch a video from a speedrun guild you will prepared enough to join an experienced group.

And if the people from your guild refuses to help other guildies with such basic dungeon paths like cof p1 you should look for another guild, there is no point in being part of a guild that doesnt Interact with everyone, that just want experienced players for dungeon paths that can be soloed by good players.

I’m sorry but I don’t think of your guild mates as “nice” if they are unwilling to teach you. Maybe Arah is the exception to this as it takes quite a bit of more time investment than most other dungeons.

Also, familiarizing yourself with the meta-built seems to me like the LEAST that you want to do. At least, this way, you know how your class works and people with more AP don’t intimidate you when they complain that your guardian isn’t mostly on staff for the fights. Because trust me, if you’re PUGging and it’s the first you’re doing it, it’s possible for you to wipe because of other morons and this might be a dent to your confidence as you’re still figuring out your class.

Go to gw2dungeons for more specific encounter guides besides the videos. The runes and sigils are important for min/maxing, but honestly, dungeons can be done in full PVT gears (not encouraging you, but if you’re struggling to survive, maybe go for it). It’s more important for instance not to be a bearbow ranger, rifle warrior, staff guardians, etc.

What professions do you run? I’m just thinking that maybe the profession that requires the least amount of responsibility is a warrior, a ranger or maybe a thief/ele. That’s because warriors are there for the banners (the rangers for spotter and frost) and the rest is mostly learning rotations so you might want to start with them (I suggest warriors to start out). A thief who can stealth properly is helpful but you’re mostly there for the DPS, just like Ele. But it takes more time as an Ele to figure out when to conjure and what to conjure (not a really long learning process but slower than thief). My concern with ele and thief is your survivability and might be offset by trying out in full pvt first (so learning AC paths for the tokens could be a really gd thing for you).

From there, I guess try to pay attention to when guardians cast a wall or when you’re knocked down to take a mental note as to when Guards and Mesmers could’ve been useful.

And might stacking as an Ele is really good, but most PuGs don’t know/care/bother. It’s learn as you go, I guess.

xallever.1874:

I’m sorry but I don’t think of your guild mates as “nice” if they are unwilling to teach you.

Pretty much gotta repeat this. Doesn’t sound like a good guild if you can’t get even one guy to help you out. I recommend to join some more social and casual guild.

Furthermore, have you tried creating your own group in LFG with a name that states you’re new and need help?
Joined groups like that myself a few times and explained the whole dungeon to people, which is much more enjoyable since these people tend to listen carefully and do what one tells them to do, rather than playing with people who THINK they know what they’re doing.

Yeah, if you’re new and in need of guidance, tell your party that you’re new to the dungeon. With this, you’re making an impression to them that you are willing to listen and learn. I’m pretty sure that most players, if not all, will gladly help you as long as you’re open about it and can communicate well if asked.

jagabs.5086:

Yeah, if you’re new and in need of guidance, tell your party that you’re new to the dungeon. With this, you’re making an impression to them that you are willing to listen and learn. I’m pretty sure that most players, if not all, will gladly help you as long as you’re open about it and can communicate well if asked.

^^ This. Or just start an LFG and put in that you’re a first timer looking to learn. That’s how I learned before I joined a dungeon guild. You’ll usually get some good groups with one or two good teachers, and by “good” I mean patient and helpful. As long as you pay attention and listen, it won’t be nearly as bad as you’re afraid it will be. ;-)

Also check out the sticky posts at the top of the dungeon forum. The “New to Dungeons and want to learn?” one I’d personally recommend, as I’m in the guild that started the thread. [ARES] is full of people who actually prefer running with new players and showing them the ropes. We aren’t all about speed runs, or stacking/etc (we still will, but don’t mind fighting, say, Spider Queen in the open) even if it means a couple of wipes. We find it more fun that way — as long as the new players are willing to learn!

When I joined them I’d barely run a couple of AC paths, but now I mentor Arah runs comfortably. There are some really great, friendly places to learn dungeons, and the stuff you’re seeing on the forums that seems intimidating is usually just experienced players blowing off steam after one (or many) bad experiences with players that didn’t know what they were doing and weren’t willing to listen. Don’t think that every party is going to be full of frustrated, angry people =D I’ve seen most of the angriest voices on this forum come out and say that they don’t mind teaching new players — they’re usually just irritated at players who keep messing the encounters up but still act like they know everything.

Check out some of the reputable guides on your class and the dungeons. Ani and DEKeyz are both stickied on the Elementalist sub.

There is no reason to be intimidated though. As with anything, there is a learning curve to dungeons. If you’ve asked your Guild Mates to help/teach you and they’ve refused, you should find yourself a new Guild.

I don’t recommend asking random PuGs for build/strategy help. That will likely lead you astray. I don’t think I’ve once run into a PuG Ele who knew what they were doing. It’s a very rewarding class though.

I am the type that learns by doing. No matter how many youtube videos I watch or guides I read.. that’s how I retain the knowledge. Although I would say that watching them and reading the guides before and during doesn’t hurt. If that is how you learn, then it’s best to find people to run dungeons with and keep chugging at it. Take breaks inbetween so you don’t get too frustrated or burnt out. You should be honest when you enter an instance.. “Hey guys, my first time, is that ok?” depending on the party, they will show you the ropes or kick you. Being kicked is part of pugging.. don’t take it too hard or personally. Just avoid groups that want experienced or speed run. You can always make your lfg too, “Anyone welcome or first timers” in title. I join those sometimes and I know a lot of experienced people does too.

The difficulty scale between most of GW2 content and dungeons is daunting. I think that’s what throws most people off. Also, join a new guild. If no one is willing to help you learn, that’s just terrible nor is it a friendly guild. I, personally, recommend the Noob mentor group stickied on top. I had the joy of being in few of their teaching runs. You want to learn how to do dungeon the most efficient way… not run around like a chicken with your head cut off.. unless it’s a meta mentor, they don’t expect you to be in a meta build/armor. They bring the knowledge, have patience, and make it fun!