Guild Wars 2

you can’t do a pug without it -.-

the exploiting of dungeons have become so insane that you can’t do a single dungeon with pugs without people wanting to exploit and abuse everything -.-

it goes from small thing as avoid mobs which you where suppose to kill to simply skipping the entire dungeon by teleporting through walls and end up at the end boss without killing a singel mob….

i really think its about time that ANET stood up, pulled the finger out of their behind and said:
" EXPLOITING WILL RESULTS IN PERMANENT BANS!!!" and once for all stopped this extreme abuse of buggy mechanics and started a system where people would actually finish the dungeons as they where intended instead.

if after that it turns out that some instance’s is simply just too hard/easy they can balance this instead of every one just exploiting everything.
it is seriously starting to feel like a game of pure cheat and hacking, like the old l2 where everyone was botting, hacking and cheating :/ it gives a bad tasted in the mouth and it gives the game a bad feeling which takes the joy out of completing anything challenging in it.

/me

There is nothing challenging in GW2, thus your conclusion is invalid.

And it’s kind of hard to ban people exploiting dungeons don’t you think? Even the CoE / Arah / HotW exploits take / took more than 5min, and you can easily do AC path 1 in that time. Thus they can’t monitor anyone simply doing a fast run.

The only way to fix exploits is through better dungeon design, i.e. make bosses not spawn if the previous boss has not been killed.

So tactical use of terrain is an exploit now?

What’s next? Using Heal Skills is an exploit?

get on the same page before going in the kitten dungeon. if the majority insists on skipping/exploiting then leave the group if you don’t want to.

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

So tactical use of terrain is an exploit now?

What’s next? Using Heal Skills is an exploit?

Jumping outside of the map to complete a dungeon in 5-10 minutes is an exploit, yes.

Gab Superstar.4059:

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

So tactical use of terrain is an exploit now?

What’s next? Using Heal Skills is an exploit?

Jumping outside of the map to complete a dungeon in 5-10 minutes is an exploit, yes.

[Citation Needed]
If it wasn’t supposed to be used, it wouldn’t have been put in. There are these things called “Patches” used to add and remove things.

Gab Superstar.4059:

There is nothing challenging in GW2, thus your conclusion is invalid.

And it’s kind of hard to ban people exploiting dungeons don’t you think? Even the CoE / Arah / HotW exploits take / took more than 5min, and you can easily do AC path 1 in that time. Thus they can’t monitor anyone simply doing a fast run.

The only way to fix exploits is through better dungeon design, i.e. make bosses not spawn if the previous boss has not been killed.

arah p4 is challenging if you are not allowed to run/bug/misuse mechanics but actually do it as it was meand to be done. i don’t believe any one can do this easy mode without misusing the mechanics/exploiting ^^

the way to fix exploiting is easy, just ban people that exploit, its pretty easy to monitor exploiters, the basic time of a dungeon to get from x to x, the dmg given/taken on certain bosses etc.

its pretty easy to get most exploiters and the scare effect will do the rest

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Gab Superstar.4059:

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

So tactical use of terrain is an exploit now?

What’s next? Using Heal Skills is an exploit?

Jumping outside of the map to complete a dungeon in 5-10 minutes is an exploit, yes.

[Citation Needed]
If it wasn’t supposed to be used, it wouldn’t have been put in. There are these things called “Patches” used to add and remove things.

weather or not something is exploiting and other stuff isnt, is up to the devs to decide.
its very easy for them to state that “we intended the dungeon to be completed by one person jumping over the terrain, into the boss area and teleporting through the mountain then to teleport his entire team into the boss room and NEVER kill or see anything else in the instance and btw not talk to any npc’s since that would remove the ability to do this trick”.

it is VERY easy for them to see how they intended the dungeon to be played and completed, and if you are not doing as they intended you are exploiting (read the diffination of the word).
if you are exploiting in a way which could seem legit AKA, you jump up and down a rock using it to block LOS of a boss, you can get a warning.
if you are exploiting in an OBVIOUS abusive way “AKA jumping out of the map to complete arah without touching a single mob and teleporting to the last boss”, you get a permanent ban without ANY chance of getting your account back.

this is becouse on the first example you can within reason say that you thought this was how it was suppose to be.
on the second example you should have a well functioning brain and the ability to know your not suppose to be able to kill the endboss without even starting the dungeon and without killing hte other bosses which is designed to block your path till you kill them.

its a quistion of using commen sense. (which some people apparently completely lacks, most have dissapiered together with their intellect.)

as an example of how this should be done WOW got the no exploiting dungeon policy and actually several of the first boss kills on new bosses have been removed and the group gotten a warning for using exploits.

i remember the case of one where a specific attack was doing hugely more dps then it should and its an attack which is normal to use in the rotation but even so the kill got removed and they got a warning for killing it becouse that attack was used, and had to try to kill it without using this attack :P
see thats how exploiting is dealt with

banning won’t fix anything. What they need to fix are the dungeons, and i do believe they are working on it. They fixed CM and HotW didn’t they? Relax.

No need to call out for a witch hunt. Hell, you might have exploited something and probably didn’t even know you did it.

Pretty sure fixes will come soon if it is deemed as an exploit by Arenanet. They do check the forums.

want to stop it? BANs must happen, but lets be serious here:

major exploit (aka last boss before starting and doing anything)
- 1st offense 3day ban,
-2nd offense perma ban
these are common sense things that it is not intended to be done and should be punished hard

minor exploit (aka standing on the top of the stairs in AC to kill path 1 or 3 boss where he can not hit you)
-1st offense warning
-2nd offense 1day ban
-3rd+ offense 3day ban
here you would be able to get a warning on each minor thing (ie different minor exploit in a different path would not lead to a ban) that you may not even realize is an exploit, but once you do it and get the warning if you continue to do it you should be penalized.

With doing this ANET would need to keep an up to date list of exploits on the forum (or a tab accessible from in game) and remove them as they fix them. This gives the player the ability to say you know i think this may be something we shouldn’t do, lets look. if its on the list then oh kitten lets not do that, and if it is not on the list it would be “safe” in that the most that could happen is get a warning

Koga.7215:

want to stop it? BANs must happen, but lets be serious here:

major exploit (aka last boss before starting and doing anything)
- 1st offense 3day ban,
-2nd offense perma ban
these are common sense things that it is not intended to be done and should be punished hard

minor exploit (aka standing on the top of the stairs in AC to kill path 1 or 3 boss where he can not hit you)
-1st offense warning
-2nd offense 1day ban
-3rd+ offense 3day ban
here you would be able to get a warning on each minor thing (ie different minor exploit in a different path would not lead to a ban) that you may not even realize is an exploit, but once you do it and get the warning if you continue to do it you should be penalized.

With doing this ANET would need to keep an up to date list of exploits on the forum (or a tab accessible from in game) and remove them as they fix them. This gives the player the ability to say you know i think this may be something we shouldn’t do, lets look. if its on the list then oh kitten lets not do that, and if it is not on the list it would be “safe” in that the most that could happen is get a warning

i have yet to see an exploit i didnt know was exploiting -.-

i have seen this happend by mistakes aka bosses getting stuck and not able to hit you etc.
but dont tell me you don’t know that the boss being unable to hit you or its skills unable to reach you while you are able by standing in a specific spot and no where else, hit it, that you do not realise this is not how it was intended to be made.

well the most importent thing is that we agree there should be a stopper on this.

Sure thing there is a need to do something about it. But watch out. Becouse one day “boss that stops doing anything and just stands there and you have no kittening idea whats going on and you just keep on beating him becouse otherwise waiting 45 minutes and nothing happens seems not reasonable” is a major bug. Becouse it gave you an advantage of the fight!

Plus you talk about AC stairs exploit? Why, in the first place, those stairs are there? And plus, it only makes the fight harder and longer, becouse, I believe that not many players have decent 1200-range weapons in those pugs. I just beat its brains out and thats it. Nice and melee.

Dont know about Arah exploits, but lets talk about Stealth Kit that is available in Heart vendor – why such a thing exists if skipping mobs or running past dungeon USING LEGIT ITEMS AND SKILLS (like SR or any other invisibility) EXIST? Clearly, there is by far no IDEA what is legit and whats not. And unless thats clear, nothing can be fixed.

(of course bugs like you state above in Arah are logicly an exploit)

Banning people for exploiting path breaking and AI problems in dungeons is a terrible idea. Completely ignoring factors like peer pressure and group mentality, imagine going through a dungeon only to find out that your group intends to cheap the final boss through some glitch. Would you a) leave and gain nothing for your time b) try to do the boss legitimately only to find yourself scorned and possibly kicked for it or c) go along with the group and exploit the boss? You’d go with C unless you were dead-set on proving on much higher you are than everyone else. So then you’re faced with ArenaNet’s sudden new policy for punishing people for exploiting. In the end, you lose no matter what you do.

Not to mention, imagine how many players have exploited a dungeon or two, either as part of a group or instigated it. If all of those people were suddenly punished for doing so, the game would be pretty empty on the end-game. Entire guilds would vanish overnight and WvW would fall into chaos.

And no, asking ahead of time if people intend to exploit isn’t a viable solution.

In my opinion, this is ArenaNet’s problem and they should never punish their players for doing it. I can’t expect them to release a dungeon completely free of exploits and player mentality usually dictates that if an easier and quicker can be practiced in completing something, that way will be used. I understood the Snowflake ban but a ban based on dungeon exploiting would be like a ban on somebody camping Obsidian Sanctuary’s Coliseum. If ArenaNet wants to do something about this, it’s fixing their dungeons quickly and effeciently so that the amount of time exploiters can abuse the problem is cut down dramatically. At the moment, they seem afraid to release more than one major patch a month and it’s slowing changes to the game to a standstill. I hate to compare GW2 to this, but even RuneScape adds something to the game weekly rather than waiting a full month to make any significant changes.

Koga.7215:

want to stop it? BANs must happen, but lets be serious here:

major exploit (aka last boss before starting and doing anything)
- 1st offense 3day ban,
-2nd offense perma ban
these are common sense things that it is not intended to be done and should be punished hard

minor exploit (aka standing on the top of the stairs in AC to kill path 1 or 3 boss where he can not hit you)
-1st offense warning
-2nd offense 1day ban
-3rd+ offense 3day ban
here you would be able to get a warning on each minor thing (ie different minor exploit in a different path would not lead to a ban) that you may not even realize is an exploit, but once you do it and get the warning if you continue to do it you should be penalized.

With doing this ANET would need to keep an up to date list of exploits on the forum (or a tab accessible from in game) and remove them as they fix them. This gives the player the ability to say you know i think this may be something we shouldn’t do, lets look. if its on the list then oh kitten lets not do that, and if it is not on the list it would be “safe” in that the most that could happen is get a warning

Though I personally do not stand on the stairs and never will for such troll easy boss fights. Game mechanics, or lack there of isn’t really wrong it was left out and wasn’t changed why must i be punished for someone elses lack of work. Something much funnier would be to ghost patch in an insta kill attack for these bosses that they use when people go to said places.

If Anet banned everyone for using dungeon “exploits” then they would probably be banning like 90-95% of everyone who has ever done a dungeon. So, I suppose you’re right. If we ban all those evil “exploiters” people wouldn’t do them anymore because almost no one would be left in the game.

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

So tactical use of terrain is an exploit now?

What’s next? Using Heal Skills is an exploit?

Nice use of euphemism. Do you consider skipping to the last boss in 5 minute and then selling 4 slots for 5g each “a tactical use of terrain”?

Gab Superstar.4059:

And it’s kind of hard to ban people exploiting dungeons don’t you think? Even the CoE / Arah / HotW exploits take / took more than 5min, and you can easily do AC path 1 in that time. Thus they can’t monitor anyone simply doing a fast run.

The only way to fix exploits is through better dungeon design, i.e. make bosses not spawn if the previous boss has not been killed.

Agree with this. The fact that some dungeons have sequenced dialogue triggers and others do not is simply lazy. Not that I’d care to see all dungeons get sequenced dialogue triggers or anything, makes for fast runs. Doesn’t change the fact that it shouldn’t be possible in some dungeons, yet possible in others. They clearly know how to do it, they just got lazy I guess.

haviz.1340:

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

So tactical use of terrain is an exploit now?

What’s next? Using Heal Skills is an exploit?

Nice use of euphemism. Do you consider skipping to the last boss in 5 minute and then selling 4 slots for 5g each “a tactical use of terrain”?

Only those that cheat feel the need to rationalize their behaviour.

These same people love to talk about risk and reward. Well no risk should mean no reward.

There is a huge difference between skipping and using exploits. Running past/avoiding mobs in order to get to boss fights is skipping, doing things like going through the wall in HotW to get more chests is an exploit.

There has already been word from the devs on this subject btw: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Will-the-new-update-stop-skipping/first#post1205684

I’m fine with skipping, my enjoyment of dungeons has roughly been: 1st time = Great fun, watch every video, listen to conversations and read chat options with NPCs. 2nd to ca 10th time = Still finding new interesting details in the maps (e.g. some murals in AC or background areas you can’t reach but still have activity in them in CoF). 10th to 20th time = This is getting kinda stale. 20th+ time = Let’s get it over with quickly.

After a while it simply turns into a grind and grinds are never fun, ergo people start looking for the most efficient way/“the path of least resistance”

Skipping trash that are slightly more intelligent than doorknobs is not anywhere near an exploit. Anet needs to make dungeons more attractive as a whole.

Trash with immense amount of HP and no brain is just a artificial kitten you to the players. Add this with the stupid DR on tokens and you have yourself a not so fun dungeon experience.

Erebus.7568:

i really think its about time that ANET stood up, pulled the finger out of their behind and said:
" EXPLOITING WILL RESULTS IN PERMANENT BANS!!!" and once for all stopped this extreme abuse of buggy mechanics and started a system where people would actually finish the dungeons as they where intended instead.

OR… Or, or…. get this, they could release bug fixes once a week instead of every 3 months once everybody has learned the exploit. I get what your saying, I prefer to kill everything and never exploit but the fault is on the devs who create these dungeons. Shortest route of least possible resistance is always how a gamers mind works, it is hard to change that; but people “pulling their finger out” and doing their job, well that can be changed.

Turial.1293:

Erebus.7568:

i really think its about time that ANET stood up, pulled the finger out of their behind and said:
" EXPLOITING WILL RESULTS IN PERMANENT BANS!!!" and once for all stopped this extreme abuse of buggy mechanics and started a system where people would actually finish the dungeons as they where intended instead.

OR… Or, or…. get this, they could release bug fixes once a week instead of every 3 months once everybody has learned the exploit. I get what your saying, I prefer to kill everything and never exploit but the fault is on the devs who create these dungeons. Shortest route of least possible resistance is always how a gamers mind works, it is hard to change that; but people “pulling their finger out” and doing their job, well that can be changed.

Or let’s not place blame elsewhere as an excuse to exploit.

Hello,

As this thread is not inviting to constructive and healthy discussion, it is now closed.

Please keep in mind that every question and/or request regarding exploits should be reported by sending an e-mail to exploits@arena.net.

Thank you.