Guild Wars 2

Alright, I’ve just begun noticing a trend when I try to find a group for FotM lvl 20 with my ele… people join, see that I’m an ele, and drop. It’s really disheartening.

Unfortunately the problem is rooted in the dungeon itself: at high levels the dungeon is disproportionately unforgiving against elementalists. This is because our survivability is based off of healing and regen, instead of raw hp and toughness. While we fare just fine in pvp with this since other players don’t have insane spike damage (outside of backstab), in the dungeon our survivability mechanism is completely nullified since monsters can easily one-shot our pitiful hp-pool, or otherwise not give us time to heal. This means that while warriors and most other classes can make a few mistakes dodging (since the hits that would 1hko us only bring them down to near death), as an elementalist you must play with a LOT more focus or face repeated deaths (which is probably why nobody wants to play with us anymore).

Even though I am running carrion exotic armor with 30 points in water and 10 points in earth, my hp pool sits at a measly 16600, and my armor 2103, which still leaves me quite vulnerable to the huge attacks in this dungeon. I do fare fine still, but because of the (well-deserved) stigma, people don’t like to party with me.

Is there anything that can be done about this? Honestly I do think elementalists should be given a bigger hp pool, perhaps at the cost of some healing. Having the lowest health AND armor in the game is a bit too much. Maybe consider a PvP, PvE split? Or perhaps just for this dungeon at high levels make it so enemies do less damage to classes with low natural armor/hp. It’s really not well balanced as is and makes me want to stop playing, since as I get higher people will start excluding me more and more.

I’m currently on FotM 57, and one of the members of my group is an elementalist.

Stupid people will be stupid, and haters will be haters. Nothing you can really do about biased people.

This has nothing to do with FotM or your health pool.

At 57 I imagine health doesn’t matter period since everything will one-shot everybody. Before that point however, low hp/armor classes are at a major disadvantage in my opinion.

This game is unbalanced and poorly designed when it comes to damage. Yes, anet, keep calling 1hit KO skill. Oh hey, subject alpha? That is a joke. Agony? Don’t even get me stared.
Let’s make a new mechanic where the player just dies, total fun.
They really need to rethink their idea of challenge. 1hko is all you find in this game

Vennyhedgie.5369:

This game is unbalanced and poorly designed when it comes to damage. Yes, anet, keep calling 1hit KO skill. Oh hey, subject alpha? That is a joke. Agony? Don’t even get me stared.
Let’s make a new mechanic where the player just dies, total fun.
They really need to rethink their idea of challenge. 1hko is all you find in this game

For the record, subject alpha only appears to be an extremely difficult boss until you get the timing down. When you realize how much time you have to dodge/aegis/distortion/shadowstep out of the way, and memorize his usual pattern of attacks, it becomes much easier to avoid getting hit.

It’s also not a 1hko, its a 1 hit downed. It will probably lead to a quick KO, but there is a chance for people to help or use multiple abilities to save you.

I would like the punishment for mistakes & failing to avoid a signature move to remain the same. There’s other things that do not 1hko you, and you almost always have a cue or a tell that lets you know what’s coming.

The majority of frustrations with getting 1hit-downed or insta-death’d by agony (that’s not from the jade maw) are due to a lack of understanding a boss’s mechanics. Sometimes you think something works a certain way, or think something is unavoidable…but 99.9% of the time there is something you could have done to avoid getting hit.

There would hardly be a challenge if you could get hit by 2 or more of a signature move that is supposed to be deadly, and not even go down.

I have a friend that used to play halo 2 and always go into “team training” and “big team battle” because there was little to no competition on the other team (usually filled with guests who never played before as well as non-competitive players who made no attempt to do the objective). It was mind-numbingly easy, there was no challenge, and any random person who played the game just as long could have done just as well, if not better.

I don’t want them to ease the difficulty of dungeons, but maybe they can make a “team-training” type dungeon where you can get hit by several attacks & not go down. That way people who complain about dying and don’t want to “learn 2 play” can accomplish something too…sorta.

I wouldn’t mind being 1hko’d if it happened evenly to all classes. However as it is (at my current fractal level) that is not the case, and it is causing everybody to hate on elementalists for dying too much. I don’t want things to be easier, I just want them to be fair.

The problem is they think the dungeon will stand for about 2 months, but they don’t expect good players will beat the higher level without enough agony resistance(now only fotm 20-30 will get infused ascended rings and the infusion is only with +5)There are just not enough items introduced with higher agony resistance to help mitigate the damage.
(Well, this is my guess because I am only at fotm 1×.)

elementalist here…
I quite agree with OP….i still don t find discrimination (due to the fact that i was lucky and have AR25 so i survive more at bosses), but for sure i can see a role for each class for fotm excluding elementalist..

Mesmer=> portal
Guardian=>well its the best to have in party
Warrior=> same as above
Ranger => great ranged damage really useful in many stage
Engineer => elixirs and underwater
Thief = >stealth is huge in fotm (see dredge etc)

Ele just isn t good for anything…..its just meh.
And explecially in dredge stage past lvl 20 you are a burden in the first part >.<

You cannot tank, and standing still with staff is a suicide, instead with dagger you are j
just hit from enemies out of your range -.- because you need to stand still

Then it happens underwater stage >.< (to tell the truth post underwater buff i have still to try but before ele was just a moving target).

not to mention harpy stage and many other were neither D/D nor staff are usable…
But my faves are veteran warriors in ascalon…

I mean they are trash mobs, i just WAIT someone other to get aggro i go in the middle with my 75 sec CD combo, pop up armor of earth (knight set also) and BAMMM 12.000 damage… O___o

A toughness set + armor of earth => 12.000 dmg? really?

1. Farm some AC.
2. Get your ele pow/tough/vit gear for PvE.
3. Enjoy your ele in PvE again.

Many signature moves already suffer the weakness of 1-hit KOing some while not doing so to others. Because of the wide variation in health pools, it’s somewhat unavoidable because what would make sure to 1-hit down everyone would insta-kill lower HP players.

The first problem that requires addressing is the 10k/14k/18k base health pools.

May be peoples in PuG’s encounter full berserk ele’s?

drkn.3429:

1. Farm some AC.
2. Get your ele pow/tough/vit gear for PvE.
3. Enjoy your ele in PvE again.

This is how I do it on my ranger. I play in full berserker most of the time and swap for ascalon armor at places where I know being too squishy is not excusable. Imo eles are great..

Why should us squishy classes have to sacrifice dps for better vit/toughness when it is not mandatory for the tougher classes? The thing is, unlike most games where squishiness is offset by high dps, if anything elementalists have LOWER dps than warrior when both running full offense. The only thing that makes this ok in pvp is our great healing/regen, but in FotM it’s worthless. At least guardian aegis etc and thief stealth are still useful in PvE, leaving elementalists as the only super low hp class with no counters against 1hko other than dodging (and a few utility skills on huge cooldowns).

LordByron.8369:

—
I mean they are trash mobs, i just WAIT someone other to get aggro i go in the middle with my 75 sec CD combo, pop up armor of earth (knight set also) and BAMMM 12.000 damage… O___o

A toughness set + armor of earth => 12.000 dmg? really?

And my glass-warrior would have taken like 20k damage in that situation. With no way to heal back.
Or when I get hit by agony, bye bye whole health bar.

Wethospu.6437:

LordByron.8369:

—
I mean they are trash mobs, i just WAIT someone other to get aggro i go in the middle with my 75 sec CD combo, pop up armor of earth (knight set also) and BAMMM 12.000 damage… O___o

A toughness set + armor of earth => 12.000 dmg? really?

And my GLASS-warrior would have taken like 20k damage in that situation. With no way to heal back.
Or when I get hit by agony, bye bye whole health bar.

Exactly…….
Different from a toughness set with a reduction damage skill in effect.
.____.

Exactly. You get protection and toughness if you eat stuff like that. Ascalon Warriors use Rush so all you have to do is dodge/avoid initial attack.

Unfortunately the problem is rooted in the dungeon itself: at high levels the dungeon is disproportionately unforgiving against elementalists. This is because our survivability is based off of healing and regen, instead of raw hp and toughness. While we fare just fine in pvp with this since other players don’t have insane spike damage (outside of backstab), in the dungeon our survivability mechanism is completely nullified since monsters can easily one-shot our pitiful hp-pool, or otherwise not give us time to heal. This means that while warriors and most other classes can make a few mistakes dodging (since the hits that would 1hko us only bring them down to near death), as an elementalist you must play with a LOT more focus or face repeated deaths (which is probably why nobody wants to play with us anymore).

Speak for yourself.

I very rarely die in fractals, and I’m usually the last one to go down.

With my soldier’s set I’m sitting on 21k health and a base of 1536 toughness (1786 with rock barrier)

Anything that 1 hit kills me is going to 1 hit any one else.

A big part of it is choosing the right weapons. If you go into fractals 20+ with a staff, you are going to die. So stop doing it.

I run dungeons with Scepter/Focus and I’m usually the tankiest person in the party.

Its just stupidity on the players part. They just want the FOTM (yeah nice word play FOTM dungeon, FOTM classes….) classes because they think it will make things easier.

I tell you any class in a dungeon is great the important part is good players. You see this with lower level fractals. Below 26 or so, there are a ton of really bad players that make you want to ripp their heads off. Thats every class. Once you go over 26 the game gets so unforgiving that you rarely find those bad players.

Suddenly it doesnt really matter which class you have since you have good players. Everyone that discriminates against a certain class is just elitist and has a narrow field of view. Those are mostly players that have only their Warrior and never think outside their small little box or try other classes.

I for my part love eles in any group the variety of fields a good ele can provide give alot to the group. There are people that say “yeah but your warrior can do support even better and do better dps”. Its getting stupid. Really really stupid lately.

On the 1 shot part. I run 20+ with my full zerker Mesmer, never die 90% of damage can be mitigated by dodge and reflects/aegis.

All you really need in higher level fractals is good group players.

And the thing about weapons the poster above me said is so true. It makes me sad every time I see people never switching from their favourite weapon to something else.

We get 2 weapon sets, players that can weave between the 2 are so much better than your warrior that wont switch out of his 2h GS. Same for Guardians that never use anything except their 2h GS.

I play Guardian alot and have come to really appreciate Scepter/Torch + Staff. I would love to use hammer all the time but its simply not good on alot of the encounters in fractals.

I’ve been playing an elementalist glass canon mode, 11k HP from fotm lvl 1 to 30 without much problems.

There are specific times when you need to dodge and/or use escape utility skills to stay alive. If you do 1 mistake at that time you will be nearly be 1 shoted immediatly. But if you do it right, it’s no problem. My advice to you: look on high level fractals runs on youtube (lvl 50 and more) and you will understand what are the key of the hard fractals.

Alucard.8297:

I’m currently on FotM 57, and one of the members of my group is an elementalist.

Stupid people will be stupid, and haters will be haters. Nothing you can really do about biased people.

This has nothing to do with FotM or your health pool.

This ^

The only players I kick are the ones that think taking magic find into a dungeon is an amazing idea.

I run with 1- 2 eles usually for my dailies and never have an issue. They are extremely versatile and when played correctly, adapt to the situation on the fly and provide great support/dps.

I’m an Ele on fotm 23. I have never had anyone kick me because of my class. I also pride myself on surviving longer than most people in FOTM. I run a Knight / Soldier blend with 1-2 Berserker accessories. That brings me to around 18k HP with 1500~toughness I think? Could be wrong, not in-game to check.

I can understand why people hate eles in pugs I guess, I only pug, but I’ve seen idiot elementalists who sport full glasscannon and die to non-vetern adds. Problem is, I also see glasscannon thieves, warriors, guardians ( strangely enough not rangers or engineers lol ).

Also, >.> Dredge first stage for Elementalist isn’t too bad. If you’re on the first or second switch, just use staff or focus for projectile null. Run in with an earth elemental up and proceed to not care for 10-20 seconds while people go in. If you’re on the 3rd or 4th switches same thing except you last longer and have some people to help you. If you’re not on switches you go around AoE’ing anything that may aggro the panel guy. If you’re on panel, earth elemental helps take aggro off you.

Oh, and I take offense to the guy who says taking staff to 20+ is bad. It’s still the same stupidly easy thing as anything else. Only thing that I remember that can 1 hit me is Ascalon warrior rushes and it’s simple to avoid that ( hint: don’t be a moron ).

I dont know what we would do without our support/healer/reviver elementalist. Currently we are at lvl 37 and he does splendid job at surviving, healing us in dire situations. Full dps party isnt the choice in fotm, without any support you will be kitten in few sec at latter levels.

Kirbyprime.2645:

Also, >.> Dredge first stage for Elementalist isn’t too bad. If you’re on the first or second switch, just use staff or focus for projectile null. Run in with an earth elemental up and proceed to not care for 10-20 seconds while people go in. If you’re on the 3rd or 4th switches same thing except you last longer and have some people to help you. If you’re not on switches you go around AoE’ing anything that may aggro the panel guy. If you’re on panel, earth elemental helps take aggro off you.

This works until frac 19 excluded…..
I use mostly D/D on this part…
summon earth golem (sometimes better ice)
i use earth 4 to get time
I use armor of earth to gain time
use mistform and heal…

Still i die before party can get to their point….

You use a VIT/tough build i use a mostly tough/prec with some vit gear…. i have your same toughness but16,5K HP.

I can assure you that to survive enough you need luck, you can get stun also preventing you torecover.

As always a static ele is a dead ele….and many situations in fotm force us to stand still.

And i am usually the one to die last in fotm due to ccurate evasions (also 25 AR helps ._.).

Oh, and I take offense to the guy who says taking staff to 20+ is bad. It’s still the same stupidly easy thing as anything else. Only thing that I remember that can 1 hit me is Ascalon warrior rushes and it’s simple to avoid that ( hint: don’t be a moron ).

1) staff lacks damage on my build…..i can crowd control or save myself but then i m not doing my part….

2) it wasn t his first attack…in fact i wrote “i wait someone other to get aggro”, also they get up after a stun and attack….i’d really love to see you melee warriors in ascalon stage and evade their attack in the midst of the confusion that stage is.

While being targeted by siege machines, rangers and ele i m sure you ll evade everything….

3) hint: if you think that isnulting random people, youìll seem a pro ona forum you are wrong…..you just seem a rude guy not a pro.

LordByron.8369:

Still i die before party can get to their point….

You use a VIT/tough build i use a mostly tough/prec with some vit gear…. i have your same toughness but16,5K HP.

I can assure you that to survive enough you need luck, you can get stun also preventing you torecover.

I assume you’re talking about 3rd and 4th switches and yes, survival is hit and miss, I can survive for the duration of the control panel as long as it’s not interrupted too much. They’re still dredge so earth 3 tends to help quite a bit even if it’s only for a few seconds.

LordByron.8369:

1) staff lacks damage on my build…..i can crowd control or save myself but then i m not doing my part….

2) it wasn t his first attack…in fact i wrote “i wait someone other to get aggro”, also they get up after a stun and attack….i’d really love to see you melee warriors in ascalon stage and evade their attack in the midst of the confusion that stage is.

While being targeted by siege machines, rangers and ele i m sure you ll evade everything….

3) hint: if you think that isnulting random people, youìll seem a pro ona forum you are wrong…..you just seem a rude guy not a pro.

1) Your build, respect that, saying that all staves are bad, not so much. That being said I’m a D/D for non-FOTM.

2) I have done it, so I’m honestly fine with it. My usual strat if I pull is to use air 5 which stuns them all during that leap, also I switch to fire do 4 to dodge back. In fact I have more trouble with mages than warriors. And there is no confusion, and there shouldn’t be any confusion, they’re in regular packs that you can target and see together with AoE CCs. The only time they’re confusing is if a pug runs into the final courtyard into siege. Even then that doesn’t mean that the ele has to run in with them. That’s the entire point of using staff, long range and able to be outside the melee.

3) I apologize, my hint wasn’t an attack on you. Nor do I think that I’m pro, I’m average and thus I hate it when others degrade the class because they think that the average elementalist is useless and deserves to get kicked. I was simply stating, if someone is not a moron, it’s not hard to deal those situations.

in ascalon there is a lot of messy effects…
FPS drops drasticaly (i have an high end PC) and charr models are bugged…(try water 2 or fire 2 with D/D) and not using a charr usually its even harder.
Expecially in front of the first door.

Nobody never kicked me….yet its clear that n many occasions the game is balanced on high HP classes.

You may say an ale with 14K hp should be oneshot, but having 16,500 and toughness set i don t like when i see guardians/warriors getting away to many things that oneshot me….

Also i nevre said ele is useless, i just said 2 classes are the best….

Many others haves tricks that makes many stages easier (thief, mesmer, eng).

Ele is just meh….nothing special….and may be a burden in some part of dungeons (expecially first part of dredge)

This whole thread is founded in paranoia; here’s what really happens:

- Guy joins group with only 2-3 people in it
- Guy sees another group with same level either on GW2LFG or in Map Chat looking for just 1 more
- Guy drops from your group without saying anything
- Guy joins other group to go immediately

This happens all the time with pugs. It has nothing to do with your class, so don’t worry about it like it does. Elementalists wreck in FotM way more than Rangers or Necromancers (since Defiant buff) could ever hope to, and even those classes don’t see much discrimination. Rangers at least can Entangle Grawl boss if you’re using that strategy (I much prefer double Guardian projectile reflection turtling at high levels, but that’s me).

tl;dr: You’re paranoid, and even if someone were discriminating against your class, they’re being ridiculous and you shouldn’t take it to heart (at least not enough to make a forum thread about it).

LordByron.8369:

in ascalon there is a lot of messy effects…
FPS drops drasticaly (i have an high end PC) and charr models are bugged…(try water 2 or fire 2 with D/D) and not using a charr usually its even harder.
Expecially in front of the first door.

Nobody never kicked me….yet its clear that n many occasions the game is balanced on high HP classes.

You may say an ale with 14K hp should be oneshot, but having 16,500 and toughness set i don t like when i see guardians/warriors getting away to many things that oneshot me….

Also i nevre said ele is useless, i just said 2 classes are the best….

Many others haves tricks that makes many stages easier (thief, mesmer, eng).

Ele is just meh….nothing special….and may be a burden in some part of dungeons (expecially first part of dredge)

First I’d just like to state something— I play a DPS mesmer with less HP than you (15k).

I can’t, for the life of me, understand why you keep mentioning the Dredge Fractal as something an ele (or any class) would have a problem with, especially due to the switches.

I don’t know if you realize this, but you can simply die on top of one of those switches in the control room, and your body’s weight still counts as though you were standing on it

There’s no need for you to survive during that part, so I have no idea how you’d be a burden. Being a body on one of the switches is actually helpful & you have tools to make sure you can at least get on top of that switch before you go down.

As for the Ascalon fractal, it sounds like you’re making many excuses to cover up things you either don’t understand or don’t have a good strategy for yet. Even with my ability to go invulnerable, with distortion, I have limited uses of it and have to time my dodges just like anyone else. That fractal is all about pulling mobs to the NPCs, and helping them (the npcs) massacre everything in sight. It’s more about buffing & supporting the npcs, as well as avoiding damage, all the while using the NPC’s as tanks so you don’t have to worry much about getting hit (until they all die.)

Yea, I don’t like playing an ugly charr either, because my 10 foot female norn is my fantasy girlfriend. But it’s just a temporary costume… it doesn’t affect how I play. That fractal is bugged for mesmers as well, since one of our main traits (clone on dodge) doesn’t even work there— yet it’s not really a huge deal, as long as we play good.

You may want to set your settings to “lowest” to avoid a huge FPS slowdown. I get a slowdown myself, but it’s nowhere near unplayable, and mostly occurs during the “arrow shower” areas.

Guardians and warriors can survive at the lower levels using melee because they are just that… guardians and warriors. Classes are different for a reason, there’s no reason whatsoever they should have the same stats & abilities…. that defeats the purpose of playing a different class. I’d quit hating on guardians and using them as examples, since at higher levels they too die in one hit. Thus everyone is equal in that aspect, and your wish has already come true, whenever you make it that far.

Lv 80 d/d rare p/v/t + full exotic Pwr/Vit/Tough gear on me and I have 18-19k hp (depending on wvw + banner of defense) and all my exotic jewelry is power/prec/cond. So I’m ready for low level fractals. With my Rare Scepter/focus I have a bit less health by a difference of 600 or so. I have a constant 18k hp regardless of my weapons.

1832/1520/1402/1552 (P/Pr/T/V)
2701 attack, 33% crit chance, 2322 armor, and 17165 base health before wvw and party bonuses/buffs.

Only caveat is that I can’t do fractals because of the sheer lag of it all ripping me apart.

I just did 36 with 2 elementalists, 1 warrior, and we had grawl too!

None of the elementalists were even downed for the fight!

If you know how to dodge, especially without the dodging skill by moving normally but in a specific way, and know when to use your damage mitigation abilities (mist form), then you will be absolutely fine.

Fractals is really about skill > decent gear.

I c a lot of people with great gear but because they can’t dodge / move / use damage mitigation abilities appropriately or decide to melee everything, they are often downed, and put the rest of us at risk when we try to revive them. Ultimately, they are a burden to the team!

Back to grawl, when the lava come out for the final boss, I still see a lot of players stand in one spot where the lava swarm them and can easily attack them at once instead of kiting the lava where it has to chase them and will miss most of the time because players are moving out of their attack range.

In one group at the power suit pouring oil part of the dredg fractal, we had to leave a warrior dead because every time we tried to keep him up he would immediately become downed and die sooo fast that it will put all of us at risk.

Again, for fractals, as long as you have enough agony resist and know how to play really well, you will do well!

EDIT: Glass cannon mesmer and I can get 1 to 2 shotted many times but because of experience from doing fractals a lot I usually avoid them in the first place.

Avoidance / prevention > mitigation!

I’d much rather the pug I pick up be an ele than other non soldier classes. So long as they don’t sit in one attunment/full zerkers/magic find most of the eles you pick up at 30 understand what they’re doing and combo field appropriately.

Alucard.8297:

First I’d just like to state something— I play a DPS mesmer with less HP than you (15k).

So you don t use an elementalist…….maybe you miss some facts.

I can’t, for the life of me, understand why you keep mentioning the Dredge Fractal as something an ele (or any class) would have a problem with, especially due to the switches.

I don’t know if you realize this, but you can simply die on top of one of those switches in the control room, and your body’s weight still counts as though you were standing on it

There’s no need for you to survive during that part, so I have no idea how you’d be a burden.

and have your party to ress you, also being unable to tank switch 1-2.
thus a burden.

As for the Ascalon fractal, it sounds like you’re making many excuses to cover up things you either don’t understand or don’t have a good strategy for yet. Even with my ability to go invulnerable, with distortion, I have limited uses of it and have to time my dodges just like anyone else. That fractal is all about pulling mobs to the NPCs, and helping them (the npcs) massacre everything in sight. It’s more about buffing & supporting the npcs, as well as avoiding damage, all the while using the NPC’s as tanks so you don’t have to worry much about getting hit (until they all die.)

what has this to do with ele problems?

Yea, I don’t like playing an ugly charr either, because my 10 foot female norn is my fantasy girlfriend.

But it’s just a temporary costume… it doesn’t affect how I play.

This again because you don t use a D/D ele……
fire and water 2 should be straight line breath…..
On charr (dunno if its a bug or what) they seem just drunk as if you waved your mouse in random directions….

Also spacing is way harder with a model you are not accustomed to….as i said some weapons require an unforgiving spacing despite having short range.

Guardians and warriors can survive at the lower levels using melee because they are just that… guardians and warriors.

D/D ele here i melee too……

I’d quit hating on guardians

never did…
I just said that despite i have no problems with groups and i usually complete 99% of runs i just find fotm are balanced on warriors/guardians….without taking in account many other classes….

infact fotm force me to switch often to staff despite i m not traited/equipped for that.
But staff ele have problems in other parts too…

Currently at 68 and my team loves my damage output/ buff stacking. Dunno what this fuss is about next to guardians, elementalists are your best pick (might stacking/ aoe healing/ burst damage/ con removal/ do i need to go on?

LordByron.8369

and have your party to ress you, also being unable to tank switch 1-2.
thus a burden.

….No. In the control room, where someone has to stand by the control switch, and theres a switch on the left and on the right— if you stand on either the left or right switch, and die, the control panel stays open & the doors stay open, and it still counts as though your still alive. Then, after your teammates finish with the control panel and move ahead to the next area, all the dredge around you de-spawn, and they can res you.

Maybe you’re thinking of a different part of the dungeon?

As for the Ascalon fractal, it sounds like you’re making many excuses to cover up things you either don’t understand or don’t have a good strategy for yet. Even with my ability to go invulnerable, with distortion, I have limited uses of it and have to time my dodges just like anyone else. That fractal is all about pulling mobs to the NPCs, and helping them (the npcs) massacre everything in sight. It’s more about buffing & supporting the npcs, as well as avoiding damage, all the while using the NPC’s as tanks so you don’t have to worry much about getting hit (until they all die.)

what has this to do with ele problems?

It has to do with the insane fact that you’re using 2 daggers and trying to melee when you’re NOT SUPPOSED TO!!!! I tried to make it clear but here: “DO NOT MELEE IN ASCALON, THAT’S WHAT THE NPCS ARE FOR— ESPECIALLY IF YOU’RE AN ELEMENTALIST!!!!” You wouldn’t expect a mage to run up to a boss and start wacking him on the head with his staff right? Same concept here

This again because you don t use a D/D ele……
fire and water 2 should be straight line breath…..
On charr (dunno if its a bug or what) they seem just drunk as if you waved your mouse in random directions….

Not sure what you’re talking about here…

Also spacing is way harder with a model you are not accustomed to….as i said some weapons require an unforgiving spacing despite having short range.

Not really, especially from melee range where you basically have to be right in front of the mob. If you’re trying to stay as distanced as possible, yet melee, maybe that should be a sign to you that you should be using a different weapon.

D/D ele here i melee too……

Maybe there’s a lot of times you shouldn’t?

infact fotm force me to switch often to staff despite i m not traited/equipped for that.
But staff ele have problems in other parts too…

Then maybe you should adjust your traits and skills for a dungeon that specifically calls for it? This is part of the strategy here, sometimes you can’t just use the same weapons/skill sets/traits for everything. Well, you can, but you probably aren’t playing the class very effectively then.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

This game is unbalanced and poorly designed when it comes to damage. Yes, anet, keep calling 1hit KO skill. Oh hey, subject alpha? That is a joke. Agony? Don’t even get me stared.
Let’s make a new mechanic where the player just dies, total fun.
They really need to rethink their idea of challenge. 1hko is all you find in this game

I do not want to see 1hit player kills from mobs that Anet makes. I want challenging mechanics.

Shayleen.8964:

I do not want to see 1hit player kills from mobs that Anet makes. I want challenging mechanics.

Sounds like you’re saying two different things.

Or, at least, you want less challenging mechanics, since it is certainly challenging to have to dodge a deadly attack that can down you in a single hit.

My mental translation is “I want it to be just challenging enough so that I think it’s kind of hard, but I can still make mistakes and not die.”

In reality, that would make things much less challenging.

Alucard.8297:

[It has to do with the insane fact that you’re using 2 daggers and trying to melee when you’re NOT SUPPOSED TO!!!! I tried to make it clear but here: “DO NOT MELEE IN ASCALON, THAT’S WHAT THE NPCS ARE FOR— ESPECIALLY IF YOU’RE AN ELEMENTALIST!!!!” You wouldn’t expect a mage to run up to a boss and start wacking him on the head with his staff right? Same concept here

infact fotm force me to switch often to staff despite i m not traited/equipped for that.
But staff ele have problems in other parts too…

Then maybe you should adjust your traits and skills for a dungeon that specifically calls for it? This is part of the strategy here, sometimes you can’t just use the same weapons/skill sets/traits for everything. Well, you can, but you probably aren’t playing the class very effectively then.

and this is why you shouldn t comment this thread…
You seems you don t know much about eles….

As i said….
Just a little more modesty.
And maybe some minutes more to read and understand all messages people wrote….

Talking about nothing…..
Also my success rate in fotm is 99% and i seldom die, mostly because all i do are dungeons and i m quite experienced….

But i canbe objective and see different difficulty of professions…

Example

Svanir boss aoe
Its easy to evade? yes who cares
Yet sometime you can be hit….and someclasses get oneshot, others are not..

Or maybe harpys stage? in the electric trap part a class can switch all 3 by itself while reflecting traps.

i could go on…..

Also requiring 3-4 players to TANK standing still is not a good design, that because despite YOU CAN somehow manage, some classes can do it without effort, others “have to die on a switch”.

a whole new level of nonsense….

now please stop your “L2P i m pro so everything is easy”….despite i succeed i m not so short sighted to not see balancing issues.

The game isn’t balanced around just health pools since there are other factors that affect survivability. Eles and Guardians have the best protection up-times and the most defensive skills. Eles are also able to maintain permanent vigor and dodge about twice as much as a Warrior can. Arguably better for higher levels of FotM where you can’t just tank things. But anyway, regardless of class theres really no excuse for taking a big hit. If you CAN take a big hit you’re probably too tanky and should consider weaning from the P/V/T and take bigger damage and getting better at dodging.

Down skillwise, the Ele’s vapor form (when you are not being bad and mashing 2) is also alot better than other classes’ downed escapes for when you do get downed. Warriors are also given a higher health pool since they are expected to stay in melee range to deal big damage, a warrior at range does very little damage and AoE.

As for dredge tanking… None of the classes can really just stand there while the dredge pummels them at least at higher levels. And if you’re complaining about having to spend more effort mashing the keyboard than other classes I don’t think Eles are the right class for you. Period. As an Ele, you can and should switch to a focus for 6 seconds of Swirling Winds + 3 seconds of Magnetic Wave + 4 seconds of Obsidian Flesh and 3 seconds of Mist Form for a total of 16 seconds of safety which is plenty of time with proper aggroing it’s really, Warriors only have Shield Bash for 3 seconds and Endure Pain for 5 seconds as their tanking skills. I find it a good design since it’s one of the moments where you have to reconsider your strategies, albeit only for the first time you do it, that makes dungeoning fun. Edit: You could also opt for the second switch, you only need to stay on it for 1-2 seconds for people to get into the gates.

I pugged my way to lvl 25 FotM with Full Beserker’s mainly using staff and 30/0/0/20/20 at 15k health and still have yet to see what all the fuss is about. Tossing 2.5k crit fireballs and providing decent sustain/protection to the team seems to do the job just fine. Admittedly I do get downed when I get distracted but I’ve never been in the situation where I scream UNFAIR at getting one-shotted since everytime that happens I know it’s my fault for playing badly/I could’ve done something about it but I didn’t.

And if you’re complaining about having to spend more effort mashing the keyboard than other classes I don’t think Eles are the right class for you. Period.

if you don t agree with me you are bad and you should quit…
what a better way to discuss in a civil way….

The issue seems to be that people like you cannot read, or more probably are just too focused in telling people they are pro and to others L2P.

I just wrote something 3 times just hoping to avoid worthless replies like this….
It just shows how some people just use forums to boost self esteem rather than to discuss.

i could reply on what u said but u would not read…so why even try….

LordByron.8369:

And if you’re complaining about having to spend more effort mashing the keyboard than other classes I don’t think Eles are the right class for you. Period.

if you don t agree with me you are bad and you should quit…
what a better way to discuss in a civil way….

The issue seems to be that people like you cannot read, or more probably are just too focused in telling people they are pro and to others L2P.

He didn’t say that if you don’t agree with him you’re bad & you should quit. His point was something more along the lines of "Yes, you may have to work harder than other classes at some things; switching weapons, cycling your skills, but that’s part of what being an elementalist is about. If you dislike the idea of having to work harder than another class when it comes to certain aspects of gameplay, then maybe you should play a different class. "

Asking the class to be entirely ‘rebalanced’ because you want to be able to tank like a guardian is not valid reasoning… it’s like me arguing that warriors should be able to summon pets, just because most of the other classes can. I could argue that warriors should be allowed to have things that distract enemies, just like most other classes. But then again, this is why classes are different. They have completely different playstyles and abilities.

I can read what you’re saying, I understand what you’re saying.

I don’t know how you can expect the game designers or anyone on this forum to NOT tell you that you need to “learn to play.” It’s not an insult for someone to give you advice or examples of how you can change up your playstyle to accomplish the things you claim “balancing issues” need to solve.

Sometimes there really doesn’t need to be huge changes in health pools or damage-reduction… sometimes there are strategies and techniques, that, if used, would completely change the way someone looked at a class & how it plays.

When I first got this game, I needed to “learn to play” myself. I made a mesmer, created some clones…and watched in horror as they did literally 0’s and 1’s as damage to every enemy in sight. “This class sucks,” I thought. I contemplated writing a post about the stupidity of giving us clones that die so easily and do no damage. But then, right before I wrote such a thing, I decided to “learn to play.” I read the wiki, and wanted to know how people could play as a mesmer with clones that do no damage. After doing some research and testing, I figured out that…to my surprise… clones aren’t supposed to do damage, because you use them as shatter fodder! I felt embarrassed about how I was about to complain about the class needing huge balance changes, until I “learned to play”.

Learning to play a game, to be good at it, should really be…umm…part of every game. A game wouldn’t be fun if any moron off the street could walk into your room and start cycling skills like a pro & doing fractal 60+ without going down. “Fun” and “Skill” can actually go hand in hand, and i think there’s no need for any anger or defensiveness because I, or anyone else, tries to look at ways you could play differently in order to solve your issues… rather than reach for “re balancing classes” right off the bat.

I actually wrote like a 2 page essay on various staff strats for 20-29 FotMs but gave up since I was wondering why I bothered.

Can we simply sum this up as

- Some Elementalists suck
- Said Elementalists causing bad rep for rest of us in FotM
- To other classes, please understand that not all of us are crap

Perhaps if there’s anything else, can we take this to the elementalist forums instead…? I think the non-eles stopped paying attention to this thread ages ago.

Eles are one of the most versatile classes there is. They can be tuned towards the composition of the party. If there is 2 guards and 2 wars then don’t go d/d dps Do staff support/heal. Do u really think another melee is needed if there is 4 already?

Personally I am in lvl 33 and I sometimes run into fotm with a staff for support/healing.
Yes d/d works too, but if u r just gonna stand there and not dodge/buff/heal/dps during the battle u really are of no help to the rest of the party.

And plz go play some pvp to see how eles work. Bet they r not the 1st ones to die…

But I did get kicked once….well that is because I am the 3rd ele in a light armor party