Guild Wars 2

I hesitated a lot before posting this because it may not be the right place for it, nor will it be well received I think…

Please, pardon my poor English skills in advance.

First of all, I would like it if this post wasn’t deleted nor flooded, and above all not lost in the swarm of all the topics on this subforum.

I’m here to say something which I wanted to say for the longest time. The main thing that is to be noted is a point that happens to be true both about real life and videogames. In France we have a saying : “Il faut de tout pour faire un monde”. That means that we can’t make a world go round with only one type of people. Which also means that there has to be both casuals and elitists.

Now that this is said, do not flame me for taking the side of the elitists, which I’m obviously going to do.

I first want to talk about my experience in Guild Wars 2 and how it was made better thanks to the guys in the dungeon subforum. I first started with a Necro and leveled from 30 to 80 in the early times of the game only through dungeons. I was terribad and as such my experience was horrible. But I got to level 80, and started trying other content than the PvE. And then I leveled a Ranger to the level 80, so as to enjoy some variety in PvP and WvW I couldn’t have only with my Necro.

But it was only then that I discovered that what I love is the PvE content. And I found it hard, after grinding for my 3rd and 4th characters. Hopefully, while I was searching for info in order to get better and do less kitten, I stumbled upon the Guild Wars 2 Forums. They were the realm of great people who naturally became my GW2 role models. People like Brazil who gave me a reason to get my ranger back into PvE content, people like spoj who got me to renew my faith in power necros, guys like Dub, who gave me good laughs with his funny topics and reactions while I felt bored with my studies. I admire guys like Wethospu who showed that it was possible to do a legit Arah solo, while I couldn’t even finish a normal 5 people run in under three hours. People who have retired from GW2 like Strife are still helping today with their awesome guides. And there are many others, some of them even put up with me so as to allow me to get better. Amicable Pugs was the one who carefully guided me through my still unsuccessful Lupi solo attempts.

So this is my dungeon story, we have all had ours, and some yours were clearly better tales than others’. I just want to say that without those who you call the “elitist jerks”, but who I’ll call the “caring teachers”, I wouldn’t have had that much pleasure in GW2. They all responded gently ingame, which shows that their dedication is not that of trolls but more that of optimists. One just needs to see how they managed to stay calm and keep some faith in the forums.

And now that I’ve expressed my point on the “elitists”, who are to me the people that made the game as fun as it is now, I’ll go on to the other point. We need every kind of people to make this game a good place. Without the elitists, we’d still be stuck in PVT gear trying to facetank attacks instead of knowing how to properly manage encounters. But they can be harsh to people who remain stubborn, because even if they demonstrate their arguments with videos of them epicly killing difficult bosses, opinions don’t change, and the tiniest troll they make gets them banned.

Here comes the last point : GW2 is a great game and I even found the time to play it for nearly 1.5K hours while I was undertaking the most difficult preparatory classes France has to offer. What happened today thus saddened me to the highest point. Each time the majority of the player base (meaning the “casuals”, me included, probably), asked for something, they got it. Now that the hardcore players actually have something to defend game wise (read “Fractal levels debate”), they aren’t heard like they should be. It is them who have invested the most time in the game. We, the majority, played it and enjoyed it. They took it to a higher level and enjoyed it as well. We ask for more entertainment, but I feel like it shouldn’t impede with theirs.

This is no rant, it is mostly a thank you post to the community of “elitists”, who made my days in GW2 way funnier. Even as you’re talking of nothing but leaving, I still hope you will hop by sometimes to say hi. I never got to know any of you, but your humor, your mindsets and your dedication moved me. I wish you all the best, be it in another content of GW2, or elsewhere

Tl;dr version : Thanks, you elitists, you were the best thing that came to the game IMO

Enaretos.8079:

In France we have a saying : “Il faut de tout pour faire un monde”. That means that we can’t make a world go round with only one type of people. Which also means that there has to be both casuals and elitists.

The exact translation is “it takes all kinds to make a world”. That being said, you don’t need a world with kittens. Casuals and Elitists do NOT have to exist, nor should there be a discrimination of one against the other. As a Dungeon veteran, I always help newer players that are inexperienced because I enjoy it. Saying you HAVE to have casuals and elitists is an exaggeration, because you’re saying two types, when there are many, countless others. Specifically, there doesn’t have to be elitists anymore than there has to be casuals. Neither are needed, but ONE will not exist without the other, because elitists consider most everyone that don’t live up to their expectations or standards casual, and at the other end casuals consider those that offer unwanted advice to be elitist :p

I agree with you, OP. The core of the dungeon subforum community have hearts of gold but are simply sick of being told they’re scum of the earth for calling out bad builds for being bad and can’t comprehend the anti-competence mentality of the player base. I’m already at one hour cooldown between posts I’ve had that many infractions and I got another one or two today, so I was thinking of just calling it quits and leaving while still having an unsuspended account so that I can come back if I ever feel like taking more punishment. This fractal issue really was the last straw I think, carebears complain and get immediate response but the moment the dungeon community voices their concern for one issue (so as opposed to the incessant complaining of the casuals) not only do the bads in the forum mock and ridicule us but arenanet don’t even bother to grace us with a response and just remove our posts, and remove/lock our threads.

I agree

No problem <3 We are here to serve the community.

We may be the ones spending the most time in GW2, but it’s those casuals spending the most amount of money in GW2.

Can’t blame Anet for favoring them, just wish we were given a chance. ( X Gems for a new unlockable dungeon anyone?)

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

We may be the ones spending the most time in GW2, but it’s those casuals spending the most amount of money in GW2.

Can’t blame Anet for favoring them, just wish we were given a chance. ( X Gems for a new unlockable dungeon anyone?)

You are so full of kittening truth today.

thank you for that. It is very true.

To ALL of the “Elite”

from the bottom of my heart thanks for being you. My game is more enjoyable because I know I can be better,

Spoj, Havis, Swifpaw, Obal, Cookie, Ethics, Bight, Sky Chef, Strife, Brazil, Dub, Wethospu, DnT, HC, SOLO, rT

all of you, make this game fun for me,

as a guild leader of an over 300 person guild. taking what YOU all have taught me, and being able to Show them.

I still suck, I worked with SkyChef, for a couple hours last night doing Lupi melee mode. made it to phase 4 and every time he just suggested more things. and helped me and the Mesmer with us understand better, never a bad word.

I don’t refer to you all as “elitists” you are “Masters”

thank you

Is Phase 4 the dead phase?

You’re very welcome! I don’t like watching people struggle so it’s our job to help out – thank you for actually listening!

don’t really know what’s going on, and i am against “labelling” individuals or grouping them.. but i just came here to say this.

i’ve learnt so much from those that give their genuine opinions, discuss why with facts, numbers, videos or even in-game walk thrus (you know who you are! i think.. lol). even the so-called SPEED RUNNERS will stop and type out explanation and strategy for certain encounters if there’s someone who is new or doesn’t know the fight well. and they will always answer genuine questions that you have. so long YOU yourself have an open mind, willing to listen and try new things. if you don’t like it? drop it and go back to your own ways. not everything has to be made into a THING.

it’s so simple. as long as you give respect, are genuine first, peolpe will (under most circumstances) always reciprocate in a similar manner. doesn’t seem very “elitist” or “jerky” to me. see why i don’t like labels? i want to assume so many just bark back whenever they see any certain individual usernames and or certain catch phrases that their mind just shuts off and goes into defensive mode.

anyways, i digress. remember, it’s the people that make up the community. and by people i don’t mean INDIVIDUALS. but rather, the focus ought to be on how people treat one another and in the regards that we all hold one another.

As someone who considers himself as not an elite, I also want to point out that the elitist have had a lot of love from Arenanet. Us lesser talented footfolk, condemmed to farming Cursed shore, frostgorge sound, crused shores again, Malchor’s leap, karma, champ lootboxes are allready used by it. This update the elitsts are getting a lot off love. A long wished for revamp off the agony-resitance, a revamps off fractals, better rewards for fractals, leaderboards. There is one minor point wich I actually understand (although in both the communication and the execution it could have been done better).

I do think that they should have discussed it better to all off us They should have said that they where planning on this several (2?) weeks ago. Maybe someone had a better solution? atleast discussing it openly with us like the skillchanges for december instead off just giving us an announcement one week ahead off time is indeed a slap i nthe face.

mercury ranique.2170:

I do think that they should have discussed it better to all off us They should have said that they where planning on this several (2?) weeks ago. Maybe someone had a better solution? atleast discussing it openly with us like the skillchanges for december instead off just giving us an announcement one week ahead off time is indeed a slap i nthe face.

Considering that they had done this to dungeons long ago… we had all already assumed they would do so for fractals as well. Besides they did actually tell us they would do this. After they changed the dungeon rewards they said they would eventually make it so Fractals also give you gold just like dungeons (which also meant we could expect the dungeon changes to leak into Fractals too).

VitalSuit.1980:

mercury ranique.2170:

I do think that they should have discussed it better to all off us They should have said that they where planning on this several (2?) weeks ago. Maybe someone had a better solution? atleast discussing it openly with us like the skillchanges for december instead off just giving us an announcement one week ahead off time is indeed a slap i nthe face.

Considering that they had done this to dungeons long ago… we had all already assumed they would do so for fractals as well. Besides they did actually tell us they would do this. After they changed the dungeon rewards they said they would eventually make it so Fractals also give you gold just like dungeons (which also meant we could expect the dungeon changes to leak into Fractals too).

The OP was clearly talking bout the fractals level debate. This debate afaik is the today announced system of dropping the personal factal level reward to 30 for all 30+ players. The dungeon reward system changes had imo nothing to do with elitism, but actually promoted a lot off good for elitism.

As a non-casual player myself, someone who enjoyed running high level fractals and grinded to get to a point where fotm came challenging I thank-you for the consideration, if only 90% of the “casuals” who come here to complain, could understand that their opinions and complaining affects a community of PvE enthusiasts.

Poor Brazil, Cookie, Vix and Crigger who had a 12 hour session to reach their goal not that long ago!!!

What a great post. Wonderfully written, OP.

These folks make the game better for everyone, whether everyone realizes it or not.

We are the hated ones. We are the people who have kitten hurled at them and smeared across our names and yet we endure. We receive death threats and insults, reddit downvotes and mindnumbingly stupid arguments. And yet we endure to create a better place for all.

but.. but I love you gaiz!

Group hug, everyone.

Harrahou.4518:

Poor Brazil, Cookie, Vix and Crigger who had a 12 hour session to reach their goal not that long ago!!!

Don’t forget about obal!

swiftpaw.6397:

We are the hated ones. We are the people who have kitten hurled at them and smeared across our names and yet we endure. We receive death threats and insults, reddit downvotes and mindnumbingly stupid arguments. And yet we endure to create a better place for all.

We are the nameless heroes.

Your welcome, if only all the people who run those BHBs and then try to troll or report us for helping were like you this game would be a better place.

@Cosley i thought being on a 5 minute timer was bad enough, I probably wouldnt even use the forums if I was ona 1 hour cooldown.

I’m in love with well educated frenchies, although i can’t stand your language.

That being said, thanks for this post. It’s great to get positive feedback instead of infraction mails from time to time.

Ropechef.6192:

Spoj, Haviz, Swifpaw, Obal, Cookie, Ethics, Bright, Sky Chef, Strife, Brazil, Dub, Wethospu, DnT, HC, SOLO, rT

Imma just add Zelyhn and colesy to that list. I am definitely sure there’s more too.

As a dungeon lurker myself, I echo the sentiments of the OP. You guys seriously have my thanks for the work and theorycrafting you guys do.

We will endure! Thanks for the mention. One of the reasons I still post regularly and do help people on the subforums occasionally is because of people who come to me ingame and ask questions. They are always very grateful even with very little feedback but I always offer what I can. Its really motivating to have those people respect you enough to trust your opinion. <3

o_o)-b You were super helpful when I came here asking for help with a necro build. Also, I always remember to avoid that one hole on the colossus to avoid pulling a spoj.

:D Sadly all those who are in on that joke have quit the game. :<

Guys I’m so happy to have received some feedback, I was afraid all of you had definitely lost all faith in the forums and went separate ways.

Even if I’m the only one who made a topic to thank you all for your work, there are so many people in the same situation !

Oh and spoj, that time when I asked you about necros in FoTM was shortly after I did my first spoj ever It felt awesome :p

I hope that the other great players will read this topic and find a little of the fulfillment they should have gotten as community contributors.

P.S : My only regret is that now that you’ll (probably) be gone for a while, I won’t have awesome guilds to look forward to entering while doing hardcore content :/

And for Dub, frenchies rock and our language isn’t that hard, we do not have declension like in german, just so many grammatical exceptions that need their own rules…

I havent heard anyone announce they are quitting yet. One of the guys i play with considered it as he is someone with fractal 80 and he was looking forward to the cap being raised. For the moment he said he will stick around to check it out and play it for the rewards if they are good enough. I think people are just angry about the nasty surprise and lack of communication. People will calm down and i hope for anets sake that what they have done isnt as big a fail as it sounds like.

Enaretos.8079:

Guys I’m so happy to have received some feedback, I was afraid all of you had definitely lost all faith in the forums and went separate ways.

Even if I’m the only one who made a topic to thank you all for your work, there are so many people in the same situation !

Oh and spoj, that time when I asked you about necros in FoTM was shortly after I did my first spoj ever It felt awesome :p

I hope that the other great players will read this topic and find a little of the fulfillment they should have gotten as community contributors.

P.S : My only regret is that now that you’ll (probably) be gone for a while, I won’t have awesome guilds to look forward to entering while doing hardcore content :/

And for Dub, frenchies rock and our language isn’t that hard, we do not have declension like in german, just so many grammatical exceptions that need their own rules…

I don’t think guilds like rT / HC / DnT / LoD will just died like that, sure some players may go inactive for sometime but we will still be around

R.I.P GW2
You casual catering piece of kitten.

spoj.9672:

I havent heard anyone announce they are quitting yet. One of the guys i play with considered it as he is someone with fractal 80 and he was looking forward to the cap being raised. For the moment he said he will stick around to check it out and play it for the rewards if they are good enough. I think people are just angry about the nasty surprise and lack of communication. People will calm down and i hope for anets sake that what they have done isnt as big a fail as it sounds like.

If getting from scale 30 to 50 is going to be same kittenty grind as from 50 to 80 I honestly won’t bother with it. And that lack of bothering will include rest of the game.

In my opinion this patch will quite clearly show what we can expect from this game.

The leaderboard is just the saddest thing to me. This is supposed to be the bone they throw to competitive pve’ers, yet not a single competitive pve’er I know wants this. Perhaps some interaction with the competitive pve community, the way that Colin Johnson interacts with the WvW community, would have let them know this?

Either fractals 40-50 will be so hard that the tears of the casuals wash them down to the bottom of the leaderboard, or it will be so easy that there is a 500,000th way tie for first place at 50/50 after two weeks.

I never thought of it like that before. Well said OP. I think a lot of people who’ve played MMOs in the past are used to a certain degree of jerk inherent in their elitists. I think the distinction should be made that there are those that are elite and those that are elitists. One is a knowledgeable player who is willing to impart some wisdom and even take some under their wing. The other is a snobbish know-it-all who trolls lesser players to boost his/her own ego. So you’re right OP, here’s another thank you to the elite players who help others, post builds, guide first-timers, and are friendly.

And for a guy who said “pardon my poor English skills” you actually write better than most native English speakers.

Also, gotta love the dude that corrected the native French speaker’s French translation. Pretty sure OP was paraphrasing lol. Though I think he knew that.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

The leaderboard is just the saddest thing to me. This is supposed to be the bone they throw to competitive pve’ers, yet not a single competitive pve’er I know wants this. Perhaps some interaction with the competitive pve community, the way that Colin Johnson interacts with the WvW community, would have let them know this?

Either fractals 40-50 will be so hard that the tears of the casuals wash them down to the bottom of the leaderboard, or it will be so easy that there is a 500,000th way tie for first place at 50/50 after two weeks.

I honestly don’t think the leaderboard was aimed at the competitive PvE’er at all. The way they phrased their announcement:

“Soon you can earn the envy and adulation of your friends and total strangers through our new leaderboards, which show off the players with the highest fractal levels!”

I doubt anyone from [rT], [HC], [DnT] gives two kittens about acquiring sycophantic randoms.

Most ppl just are whiny kitten be cause they can’t stand critique even though the critique is legitimate. Also, why are all so kittening dead serious? Just take it easy, learn to laugh at yourselves, for god’s sake…

What I learned in life is that a lot of people don’t want to face the thruth and can’t or don’t want (under)stand if they have a worse solution. I can tell you that from work. Instead I learned to understand it and tried to benefit from it. Unfortunatley we live in a morally biased society that favors a fake non-critique-we-are-nice-in-front-but-talk-then-bad-behind-their-backs behavior.

I am happy we have some great players who show the most effective ways to play good.

Good luck in the next game, now all of us Mediocre players get to be the “elite” and start kicking pugs and being rude.

Awesome \m/

Comrade !!
I completely agree with you
I would like to add a few names to the “list”: Sanderinoa, Lorek and Leman, I have had a really good time playing with you guys!

I sent you an invite for [Madz], we have recently doubled our guild members … yes yes

Being rude and kicking pugs have nothing to with the kind of elitist i am/we are.
The only kind of persons i screw up are kittens, as there sadly are plenty on the internet.

pleasant thread, cynical brain… can’t comprehend

this thread makes me wanna go in pug groups and teach everybody though i doubt that would be received well ^^
anyway thx for reminding me of the people who aren’t kittens and actually appreciate advice.

And the first thing you do when coming online is charity pug runs..

mercury ranique.2170:

As someone who considers himself as not an elite, I also want to point out that the elitist have had a lot of love from Arenanet. Us lesser talented footfolk, condemmed to farming Cursed shore, frostgorge sound, crused shores again, Malchor’s leap, karma, champ lootboxes are allready used by it. This update the elitsts are getting a lot off love. A long wished for revamp off the agony-resitance, a revamps off fractals, better rewards for fractals, leaderboards. There is one minor point wich I actually understand (although in both the communication and the execution it could have been done better).

There is a small problem with your comparison. These farming methods may have been fixed (which could “compare” to beeing unable to progress even number fractals lvl 50+), but you still keep the money/materials you farmed. The stuff you worked for and spent time with.
This patch will make all the effort/money/time put into leveling up fotm up to 80 go to waste. And to be honest, I do not think there is anything that could make up for such a loss, that would’be unfair to all the other players except letting everyone keep their highest fotm level.

Like wethospu already stated, this patch will show what “high end” dungeon runners can except from the game in the future.
For me it goes like that: If AR gets more accessable, but mandatory at the same time (you did not need any point of AR so far for any boss but jade maw) the game goes to the worse. Mindless button smashing will be rewarded, or at least not punished, while there remains very little room for personal skill.
Imagine what would happen if CoF got more levels (like fotm), but every boss attack so fast and hit so hard that you would need to grind low lvl cof for essences that would buff up your thoughness. Grindy content, gear spirals and little room for “skillful actions”.

TL;DR the update does not give elitists much love, it robs them from their achievements.

Spiky Muffin.9180:

this thread makes me wanna go in pug groups and teach everybody though i doubt that would be received well ^^
anyway thx for reminding me of the people who aren’t kittens and actually appreciate advice.

You think it’s gonna be all rainbows and lollipops.

You pop on in and enter the dungeon, you see a staff mesmer with corruption sigil who tells you he doesn’t have a focus.
’That’s ok, just take feedback please’
you tell him, a smile on your face. This guy is gonna learn something about reflects today! Oh it’s exciting!

The guardian loads in, sword shield. Well he’s halfway there isn’t he. Halfway to a decent weapon setup despite his life sigil and Strength in Numbers popping up to indicate he’s probably AH.

’Hey bud, do you have a focus instead of that shield?

‘What? No. And that reminds me, I only use this sword for roleplaying. Sorry for the inconvenience.’

He swaps it to a mace. Ok well, that’s only 2 players so far, lets see what we get next.

A longbow ranger enters the scene. He has a polar bear and an arctodus. He isn’t your typical brown bear guy. He’s special. Like a snowflake. How else do you know? His other set is axe/torch and he’s running traps. What do you even say at this point? How do you even.. Well. You remain calm and ask him if he has a sword. That’s a negative however.

And then *drumroll please *

The crème de la crème of warrior’s loads in. Full cleric’s, shoutheals and a rifle. He proceeds to rifle attack every mob from the backline.

‘Excuse me warrior, do you happen to have a melee weapon, perhaps an axe?’
You ask politely.

Oh you’ve done it now, all 4 of these players have been interrogated by you, the elitist scummy. Did you ever stop to think about how you made them feel? I don’t think so. Heartless.

The warrior keyboard turns all the way around to face you.

’I’ll have you know that rifle is the highest single target dps in the game.’
‘He asked me about my build too! He has no right!’ The ranger chimes in.
The Mesmer.. ‘He… he tried to make me use a focus’ *shudders *
‘kitten YOU’RE ALL RUINING MY IMMERSION!’ screams the guardian.

In unison they chant.
‘We, play. how. we. want!’ We play how we want! We play how we want!’

The ranger passes out torches to everyone and they chase you out of the dungeon. As you almost reach the exit you trip up on the ranger’s spike trap. You fall. A single tear peels down your face as you accept your fate. You end up carrying the entire team for an hour or so and soloing the end boss.

You have a lot to learn.
People can only change by themselves.
Even the greatest religious leaders on earth could not convert everybody.
Who are you btw?

swiftpaw.6397:

Spiky Muffin.9180:

this thread makes me wanna go in pug groups and teach everybody though i doubt that would be received well ^^
anyway thx for reminding me of the people who aren’t kittens and actually appreciate advice.

You think it’s gonna be all rainbows and lollipops.

…

this just made my day

Bravo! Bravo! What a masterpiece!
May I ask the name of this ingenious play?

Agony.3542:

Bravo! Bravo! What a masterpiece!
May I ask the name of this ingenious play?

The Taming of the Pug.

Anicetus.1253:

Being rude and kicking pugs have nothing to with the kind of elitist i am/we are.
The only kind of persons i screw up are kittens, as there sadly are plenty on the internet.

I wasn’t referring to you, specifically, Dub.

We don’t all play the way you (generally) want, therefore, we are “bads” or at the very least, mediocre… from your (the higher-level players) perspective.

What’s hilarious is all the people who “appreciate” your (dungeon elitists) help, guides and snarky comments would get kicked in less than 10 seconds from your runs without even a comment. So while I glean what I can from what you say in the forums, I can’t say having this group of people harass anyone who posts on this forum and isn’t on their level is a positive thing for the game overall.

Besides, it’s just a matter of time before the high-level players move on and another group will spring up with new meta (Cleric’s is baus, yo) and get bored with how good THEY are at the game.

It’s the circle of life…

swiftpaw.6397:

Spiky Muffin.9180:

this thread makes me wanna go in pug groups and teach everybody though i doubt that would be received well ^^
anyway thx for reminding me of the people who aren’t kittens and actually appreciate advice.

You think it’s gonna be all rainbows and lollipops.

…

actually it was. was looking for’ inexperienced willing to learn’. ofc they weren’t good but they were friendly and listened so i kinda enjoyed it

How about folks complaining about elitists go over to the 1000x other threads complaining about elitists, and we continue the little group hug over here, mmmk?

(and I say this as a ~mediocre myself)