Guild Wars 2

Whenever I see your name… I think of that scene in Family Guy.
“I guess it takes Juan, to know Juan”
“HEUHEUHEUHEUHEUHEU”

….I’m aware most people won’t get the reference.

Edit: OH MY GOD I FOUND IT
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktt_wVT4IZ4

Dolan.3071:

Whenever I see your name… I think of that scene in Family Guy.
“I guess it takes Juan, to know Juan”
“HEUHEUHEUHEUHEUHEU”

….I’m aware most people won’t get the reference.

Edit: OH MY GOD I FOUND IT
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktt_wVT4IZ4

Yessssssss

ITT: the people who used to kitten on Guang the hardest blaming everyone for sh*tting on Guang…

Lemme recap the entire fuzz with Guang though: people didn’t laugh with him because of his claims (although probably partly), but because of the fact that he refused to prove them and only used spreadsheets and when asked to make a video he told us we were too stupid to get it anyway. The fact that we proved his claims for him shouldn’t be celebrated, we shouldn’t be doing the testing and the proving, he should.

That’s like walking into a physics lecture on general relativity, shouting that the speed of light in free space isn’t constant, and throwing poo at everyone that disagrees with you and telling them they’re too stupid to understand your genius. Then, when someone proved you were right all along, walking in and saying ‘see, I told you all, you were just too blind to see’. That’s not right, you should have done the proving.

If you walking in flinging poo, but you end up doing the proving as well, I’ll celebrate you, but if you make others do the work for you, I don’t think you deserve much credit to be honest.

Sidenote: Nik is definitely not speaking in the name of LOD in this thread. In fact, I’m still trying to wrap my head around what the hell he’s been up to since I left. It’s entertaining though. Confusing, but entertaining.

Why no one is celebrating me? I told people to keep an open-mind and actually test it thoroughly before jumping to conclusions. No zealots, no celebration. I really feel excluded.

(not serious)

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Warrior, ranger, engineer, last two slots optional. I think I’ve been saying that for a while.

Personally I think W/R/En/G/M, with the mesmer being the most flexible of the five, tends to be a good all around combo but there are different classes that are good for different situations. Eles blow up the First Flame thing in COF2 outrageously fast, mesmer sucks for Arah P1 entities, rangers suck for Brie, etc.

Honestly if there is a “bad” class in this game it is probably the necromancer. I am open to being proven wrong on that point, though.

Why do you need someone to prove necro to you when you had no problem trying to prove the other classes were good. Why is necro the only class you havent looked at?

Wethospu.6437:

(not serious)

Ruined it

You interpreted that wrong, spoj. He said he’s open to be proved wrong, as in if someone can present an argument that proves necros aren’t ‘bad’ like he thinks, then he’s fine with that.

This is the most useless video i ever seen.

A boss that any class in any gear with any build and by ANY player can be easily soloed.

Useful as a video of an 1VS1 fight vs a low level moa.

Conjured is a bad version of a warrior.
Because you simply give up all your skill to dish out dps against an unreacting target.

And even in pve you wn t find easier bosses.

How comes you never find conjured eles in high level fractals?

because its a gimmick build and unless you are carried by Others you won t be doing anything but die…..differently from any other zerker profession.

LordByron.8369:

How comes you never find conjured eles in high level fractals?

because its a gimmick build and unless you are carried by Others you won t be doing anything but die…..differently from any other zerker profession.

That’s funny, because before I left on my holiday (which was almost 2 months ago, BEFORE the huge skill update that made LH eles even stronger than they already were), we did a Fractal 38 with 2 LH eles (2G/1W/2E was the setup), and it went about just as well as with our usual 2G/2W/1M setup. And fun part: one of the LH eles (Nikaido) was playing his ele for the first time that run. He hadn’t even unlocked most of his skills yet.

I don’t think you’ll see it in high lvl PUGs, because PUGs are terrible. Slap the build on a good player, and everything will be fine.

Yea, but you had 2 guards, which kind of results in the epitome of carried through fractals.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Yea, but you had 2 guards, which kind of results in the epitome of carried through fractals.

Why would you not bring 2 guards? It makes everything smooth, easy, and fast. No reason to g*mp yourself (also, I was carrying then).

That’s like saying you’ll use a Monk bonder in DoA, because E/Mo makes it too easy anyway. You’ll probably finish DoA if you know what you’re doing, but you’re not really proving a point, except that you can do DoA g*mped.

Although, we actually did that once when we did 8 monk DoA… Still mad at Sophie for screwing it up though, I was a god kitten beast that run.

Edited because of moronic censoring (G – i – m – p is apparently a no-go, dat context..)

@ Cookie
You’re right, we should play worse party compositions because that’s all the game is about.

@ Bright
At this point I just ignore Byron whining. He actually, sincerely believes that mesmers are more useful than elementalists in fractals. My experience is that I’d take any class, any, including necromancer, over mesmer, when it comes to frac. Mesmers are complete deadweight for most of the fractals (all the trash fighting which is what takes 90% of the time in fractals like dredge).

We didn’t use a Monk bonder in DoA, because it wasn’t effective at anything beyond carrying a bad EMO. We used a different build which was better, which would be the same in this example as using a better class/build, since I’m pretty sure back then that at least one of those guards was AH.

My understanding is that either previously or maybe even currently, a team on EU was running their lvl60-80 fractals with no guard, and still doing faster than most organized teams I heard of doing 48.

As for that all monk run, well… I avoided that for a good reason.

EDIT: I just realized I read Bright’s first post incorrectly, I assumed he chose a wrong word or left one out. That example makes sense on the assumption that Guard is the best choice (which EMO was), and that’s left debatable. When I read ‘Monk bonder’, my first thought was the bar that Zraw and guilds who tried to be Zraw used to run; which to this day I maintain was a stupid build.

Nikaido.3457:

@ Cookie
You’re right, we should play worse party compositions because that’s all the game is about.

I wouldn’t call running around with two guardians effective. But i guess that comes down to personal experience.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

We didn’t use a Monk bonder in DoA, because it wasn’t effective at anything beyond carrying a bad EMO. We used a different build which was better, which would be the same in this example as using a better class/build, since I’m pretty sure back then that at least one of those guards was AH.

Yeh, it was. 1 AH guard for the carrying, 1 DPS guard for the utility. No idea if tactics have changed since then.

My understanding is that either previously or maybe even currently, a team on EU was running their lvl60-80 fractals with no guard, and still doing faster than most organized teams I heard of doing 48.

Yes, and we always ran record tactics when we did casual DoA’s… The reason we bring 2 guards is to make runs smooth and easy. I’m perfectly aware that you can perform equally well or better with different compositions, but I don’t see why I should bother if running 2 guardians give similar to equal results with 10 times the leeway for screwups.

As for that all monk run, well… I avoided that for a good reason.

If you hadn’t avoided it, we could’ve kicked Sophie for you, and we would have finished, meaning my beast mode tanking wasn’t in vain. So, basically, I should blame YOU for the failure of that run!

Dub.1273:

Nikaido.3457:

@ Cookie
You’re right, we should play worse party compositions because that’s all the game is about.

I wouldn’t call running around with two guardians effective. But i guess that comes down to personal experience.

I would be willing to change my mind, but finding arguments against guardians is going to be pretty hard considering how good their dps can be with a dps build and how much smoother they make high level fractal runs. If it had to be one or the other (dps OR easier run) there’s be room for argument. But this isn’t the game where the support class has to do much worse dps than the average. Unless you go for records where you’re sensitive toward 5 sec differences you’re not actually going to noticeably slow down your runs by bringing two guard, ever while you’re making the runs a lot more consistent as in less prone to human error or insta wipe because of momentarily lag.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

You interpreted that wrong, spoj. He said he’s open to be proved wrong, as in if someone can present an argument that proves necros aren’t ‘bad’ like he thinks, then he’s fine with that.

I know that. But he tested all other classes except necro without other people presenting builds to him. Why has he completely ignored one class?

Bright.9160:

As for that all monk run, well… I avoided that for a good reason.

If you hadn’t avoided it, we could’ve kicked Sophie for you, and we would have finished, meaning my beast mode tanking wasn’t in vain. So, basically, I should blame YOU for the failure of that run!

I think I just assumed that Sophie would be on the run anyway, so that was my mind made up straight away. I heard Sophie was quite the pro at using UA, however.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Bright.9160:

As for that all monk run, well… I avoided that for a good reason.

If you hadn’t avoided it, we could’ve kicked Sophie for you, and we would have finished, meaning my beast mode tanking wasn’t in vain. So, basically, I should blame YOU for the failure of that run!

I think I just assumed that Sophie would be on the run anyway, so that was my mind made up straight away. I heard Sophie was quite the pro at using UA, however.

Yeah, she must’ve been bugged or something, because apparently, UA had a 30s cooldown for her.

Dub.1273:

Nikaido.3457:

@ Cookie
You’re right, we should play worse party compositions because that’s all the game is about.

I wouldn’t call running around with two guardians effective. But i guess that comes down to personal experience.

Oh come on, get off your irrational guardian hate. Just because your group doesn’t need them doesn’t mean no one can get through fractals smoothly and efficiently with them.

Broadicea.8294:

Dub.1273:

Nikaido.3457:

@ Cookie
You’re right, we should play worse party compositions because that’s all the game is about.

I wouldn’t call running around with two guardians effective. But i guess that comes down to personal experience.

Oh come on, get off your irrational guardian hate. Just because your group doesn’t need them doesn’t mean no one can get through fractals smoothly and efficiently with them.

We don’t play with Guardians that often to put more demand on players to develop better situational awareness/knowledge of an encounter, as they don’t have a reflect/aegis/prot bot there to compensate for them. Similar to how we’ll quite often run Arah without a Mesmer, to test if people actually understand how Lupis Phase 2 works or if they go brain afk waiting for the feedback. Most of us accept the power of Guardians, however the idea behind stacking them is usually based more on needing a crutch than because you think they’re that powerful. e.g You’ll almost never hear groups wanting 2 guardians for anything other than Fractals.

I’m still waiting for people to consider Thief to be meta for high level fractals. Not sure why it’s taking so long, either. Heck, keep your ele, run 2g,1w,1e,1t and your runs will be smoother and faster.

My first fractal team was actually 2w/1t/1g/1m.

spoj.9672:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

You interpreted that wrong, spoj. He said he’s open to be proved wrong, as in if someone can present an argument that proves necros aren’t ‘bad’ like he thinks, then he’s fine with that.

I know that. But he tested all other classes except necro without other people presenting builds to him. Why has he completely ignored one class?

I have tested it. I tried a 10/30/0/30/0 D/F+Wh build and it was getting, totally buffed, about 9k/s, which is about the same raw DPS as ranger + pet, or engineer + bleeds. I tested minions last night and:

- Golem seems to deal about the listed 770 per second (they seem to have the same attack speed as the average 3-hit melee chain, and hit about 550-550-800 on average from what I can tell) and doesn’t scale.

- Shadow Fiend hits 350 every 1.5s and doesn’t scale, so they’re worth about 230/s with a bit of rounding.

- Blood Fiend hits 239 every 3s and doesn’t scale, etc., so it’s worth about 80/s.

- Bone Fiend is 572 every 3s, for 190/s.

- Flesh Wurm hits 833 every 4s or so, for about 210/s.

That means all 4 of those together will get you about 1.5k/s. Add that to the necro’s base 9k and you have 10.5k/s from dagger + 5 minions, which is about 5% more than a guardian, with some pretty substantial drawbacks:

1) You lose a big chunk of DPS if any minions die, particularly the Flesh Golem or Shadow Fiend, since they are your best options for damage and they are also melee.

2) You don’t cleave at all. Even rangers at least cleave with their sword auto, you have pretty much no AOE options period except for staff.

3) You don’t really offer any good group buffs. As far as I can tell, Necros don’t even have any AOE might stack options. To be fair my necro isn’t even level 80 so I may have missed one.

That’s a pretty hard sell for an extra 5% DPS on a single target.

10/30/0/30/0? Wtf Ive never seen such an awful build for dps, your missing out on close to death, 200 power and atleast 15% crit damage. Yea necro doesnt contribute to group might and buffs, so its a relatively selfish class. The dark fields and blinds can come in handy though.

The two main dps builds are 30/25/0/0/15 and 30/10/0/0/30.

If your saying that 10/30 is out dpsing a guardian then surely my build is out dpsing it by a country mile.

If your fully buffed up you can take 2 damaging wells for strong aoe. Combine that with DS aoe and locust swarm and its not bad for burst aoe. You always run Well of suffering in a power build. Signet of spite helps boost the dps a bit more. 3rd slot is either well of corruption, BiP for selfish might or some utility (WoD or WoP). Can also take the piercing life blasts in Soul reaping, it sort of cleaves, its just a slow attack.

Spoj, on the assumption that you only care about single target DPS, where would you place Necro relative to thief/warrior/ele?

This is a genuine inquiry, since you seem to have a decent amount of experience with Necro. If you think it has very high single target DPS, then it could be quite a good choice for a dungeon such as Arah P2/3, where there’s almost zero need for cleave.

Honestly I dont really know, i dont play ele or thief, but i felt like i was doing more damage than the warrior when running coe the other day. That could of just been the fast auto attack though. I calculated some dps the other week and necro with 3 conditions seems to be just behind warrior axe auto dps. More conditions would boost that and I didnt factor in well damage.

Id probably take it instead of stacking extra warriors, or replace a thief when theres no need for stealth and theres more trash to deal with. But you would have to make sure the group can keep it fully buffed. If you dont want a mesmer in coe because of their dps a necro can actually be a fairly decent alternative for the boon removal on the golem. Plus the aoe destroys the golems in the laser room insanely fast.

But id rather someone with more experience in calculating dps could prove if my build out dps’s other classes.

For whakittens worth, I’ve run my Necro a lot in dungeons like CoE where single target is all that matters. The personal DPS seems fine but the lack of team buffs basically makes them worthless. All they can sell is Vuln stacking which an engineer does fantastically better.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

For whakittens worth, I’ve run my Necro a lot in dungeons like CoE where single target is all that matters. The personal DPS seems fine but the lack of team buffs basically makes them worthless. All they can sell is Vuln stacking which an engineer does fantastically better.

True but if it turns out they have better dps than other classes when buffed, they could become a strong pick for that extra dps slot. Providing your team already has the required buffs. I stopped using my necro in dungeons a long time ago. But id love it for them to become more widely accepted as a good pick, not just a viable pick. Necro is the class i have the most fun playing, but im not willing to take it into dungeons if i can take something better, i hate being selfish.

I’ll make Dub run his Necro with spoj’s trait setup the next time we do a speed run, or maybe we could take spoj himself.

spoj.9672:

10/30/0/30/0? Wtf Ive never seen such an awful build for dps, your missing out on close to death, 200 power and atleast 15% crit damage. Yea necro doesnt contribute to group might and buffs, so its a relatively selfish class. The dark fields and blinds can come in handy though.

The two main dps builds are 30/25/0/0/15 and 30/10/0/0/30.

If your saying that 10/30 is out dpsing a guardian then surely my build is out dpsing it by a country mile.

If your fully buffed up you can take 2 damaging wells for strong aoe. Combine that with DS aoe and locust swarm and its not bad for burst aoe. You always run Well of suffering in a power build. Signet of spite helps boost the dps a bit more. 3rd slot is either well of corruption, BiP for selfish might or some utility (WoD or WoP). Can also take the piercing life blasts in Soul reaping, it sort of cleaves, its just a slow attack.

There’s like 4 DPS traits that matter for the necro: Close to Death, the 25 minor in the precision line, the 25 minor in the boon duration line, and the 5% over 50% life force. Last time I ran the numbers, 9k was the highest I got. I think it was either 10/30/0/30/0 or 10/30/0/0/30, I don’t remember which exactly. 10/25/0/0/15 MAY give comparable DPS, I doubt it’s going to be much higher overall. 30/10/0/0/30 won’t give crap.

Also, wells contribute very little overall DPS due to their long CD. In terms of sustained DPS, minions are better, provided they don’t die. If they do die, well, you’re out of luck, because wells aren’t very good except as an initial burst.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

spoj.9672:

10/30/0/30/0? Wtf Ive never seen such an awful build for dps, your missing out on close to death, 200 power and atleast 15% crit damage. Yea necro doesnt contribute to group might and buffs, so its a relatively selfish class. The dark fields and blinds can come in handy though.

The two main dps builds are 30/25/0/0/15 and 30/10/0/0/30.

If your saying that 10/30 is out dpsing a guardian then surely my build is out dpsing it by a country mile.

If your fully buffed up you can take 2 damaging wells for strong aoe. Combine that with DS aoe and locust swarm and its not bad for burst aoe. You always run Well of suffering in a power build. Signet of spite helps boost the dps a bit more. 3rd slot is either well of corruption, BiP for selfish might or some utility (WoD or WoP). Can also take the piercing life blasts in Soul reaping, it sort of cleaves, its just a slow attack.

There’s like 4 DPS traits that matter for the necro: Close to Death, the 25 minor in the precision line, the 25 minor in the boon duration line, and the 5% over 50% life force. Last time I ran the numbers, 9k was the highest I got. I think it was either 10/30/0/30/0 or 10/30/0/0/30, I don’t remember which exactly. 10/25/0/0/15 MAY give comparable DPS, I doubt it’s going to be much higher overall. 30/10/0/0/30 won’t give crap.

Also, wells contribute very little overall DPS due to their long CD. In terms of sustained DPS, minions are better, provided they don’t die. If they do die, well, you’re out of luck, because wells aren’t very good except as an initial burst.

The 5% over 50% life force is bugged or a tooltip failure. Its actually a flat 90 power when over 50% lifeforce. Makes it even more worthless. I dont see how any build with only 10 in spite can be considered good dps on a necro. The minors are awful but close to death is just a must have. I mean i even tried 10/30/0/0/30 at one point, it was weak. The lack of power was quite a big difference and close to death is so strong especially when you save your wells for when the target is below 50%. Not to mention the bugged stength of undeath means theres no reason to go that far into soul reaping. Wells got a slight cd reduction a few patches ago, they still remain as high cd burst skills but they can crit pretty hard so id always run them over minions (Due to minion reliability) and most fights rarely last that long anyway.

Nikaido.3457:

@ Bright
At this point I just ignore Byron whining. He actually, sincerely believes that mesmers are more useful than elementalists in fractals. My experience is that I’d take any class, any, including necromancer, over mesmer, when it comes to frac. Mesmers are complete deadweight for most of the fractals (all the trash fighting which is what takes 90% of the time in fractals like dredge).

As many poor players when you can t just prove your point you recur to the usual QQ or Fnboysm accusations depending on wich is useful to your lack of knowledge.

But i deleted the long list i just say 2 things

The proof of your elementalist being carried is quite easy:

I can play fotm (high lvl start at 40 to 80 when AR is not enough to save you from oneshot) with pugs, you said more than one times you wont…….that alone is qute enough.

Other thing is i m sure every elementalist player choose to play a caster to swing a HAMMER with 5 attacking skills and nothing other….

The part about mesmer and fractal EXPECIALLY dredge is so wrong that is quite clear you don t have any point other than trying to discuss the posters themselves….

spoj.9672:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

spoj.9672:

10/30/0/30/0? Wtf Ive never seen such an awful build for dps, your missing out on close to death, 200 power and atleast 15% crit damage. Yea necro doesnt contribute to group might and buffs, so its a relatively selfish class. The dark fields and blinds can come in handy though.

The two main dps builds are 30/25/0/0/15 and 30/10/0/0/30.

If your saying that 10/30 is out dpsing a guardian then surely my build is out dpsing it by a country mile.

If your fully buffed up you can take 2 damaging wells for strong aoe. Combine that with DS aoe and locust swarm and its not bad for burst aoe. You always run Well of suffering in a power build. Signet of spite helps boost the dps a bit more. 3rd slot is either well of corruption, BiP for selfish might or some utility (WoD or WoP). Can also take the piercing life blasts in Soul reaping, it sort of cleaves, its just a slow attack.

There’s like 4 DPS traits that matter for the necro: Close to Death, the 25 minor in the precision line, the 25 minor in the boon duration line, and the 5% over 50% life force. Last time I ran the numbers, 9k was the highest I got. I think it was either 10/30/0/30/0 or 10/30/0/0/30, I don’t remember which exactly. 10/25/0/0/15 MAY give comparable DPS, I doubt it’s going to be much higher overall. 30/10/0/0/30 won’t give crap.

Also, wells contribute very little overall DPS due to their long CD. In terms of sustained DPS, minions are better, provided they don’t die. If they do die, well, you’re out of luck, because wells aren’t very good except as an initial burst.

The 5% over 50% life force is bugged or a tooltip failure. Its actually a flat 90 power when over 50% lifeforce. Makes it even more worthless. I dont see how any build with only 10 in spite can be considered good dps on a necro. The minors are awful but close to death is just a must have. I mean i even tried 10/30/0/0/30 at one point, it was weak. The lack of power was quite a big difference and close to death is so strong especially when you save your wells for when the target is below 50%. Not to mention the bugged stength of undeath means theres no reason to go that far into soul reaping. Wells got a slight cd reduction a few patches ago, they still remain as high cd burst skills but they can crit pretty hard so id always run them over minions (Due to minion reliability) and most fights rarely last that long anyway.

Well if Strength of Undeath is bugged then that one is out of the question. You’d be running either 30/25/0/0/15 or 10/30/0/30/0 then.

The thing about Close to Death is that while it’s a 20% buff, it’s only active half the time, so it’s effectively only a 10% DPS boost. If you absolutely had to pick between that or Target the Weak, the latter is better.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

spoj.9672:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

spoj.9672:

10/30/0/30/0? Wtf Ive never seen such an awful build for dps, your missing out on close to death, 200 power and atleast 15% crit damage. Yea necro doesnt contribute to group might and buffs, so its a relatively selfish class. The dark fields and blinds can come in handy though.

The two main dps builds are 30/25/0/0/15 and 30/10/0/0/30.

If your saying that 10/30 is out dpsing a guardian then surely my build is out dpsing it by a country mile.

If your fully buffed up you can take 2 damaging wells for strong aoe. Combine that with DS aoe and locust swarm and its not bad for burst aoe. You always run Well of suffering in a power build. Signet of spite helps boost the dps a bit more. 3rd slot is either well of corruption, BiP for selfish might or some utility (WoD or WoP). Can also take the piercing life blasts in Soul reaping, it sort of cleaves, its just a slow attack.

There’s like 4 DPS traits that matter for the necro: Close to Death, the 25 minor in the precision line, the 25 minor in the boon duration line, and the 5% over 50% life force. Last time I ran the numbers, 9k was the highest I got. I think it was either 10/30/0/30/0 or 10/30/0/0/30, I don’t remember which exactly. 10/25/0/0/15 MAY give comparable DPS, I doubt it’s going to be much higher overall. 30/10/0/0/30 won’t give crap.

Also, wells contribute very little overall DPS due to their long CD. In terms of sustained DPS, minions are better, provided they don’t die. If they do die, well, you’re out of luck, because wells aren’t very good except as an initial burst.

The 5% over 50% life force is bugged or a tooltip failure. Its actually a flat 90 power when over 50% lifeforce. Makes it even more worthless. I dont see how any build with only 10 in spite can be considered good dps on a necro. The minors are awful but close to death is just a must have. I mean i even tried 10/30/0/0/30 at one point, it was weak. The lack of power was quite a big difference and close to death is so strong especially when you save your wells for when the target is below 50%. Not to mention the bugged stength of undeath means theres no reason to go that far into soul reaping. Wells got a slight cd reduction a few patches ago, they still remain as high cd burst skills but they can crit pretty hard so id always run them over minions (Due to minion reliability) and most fights rarely last that long anyway.

Well if Strength of Undeath is bugged then that one is out of the question. You’d be running either 30/25/0/0/15 or 10/30/0/30/0 then.

The thing about Close to Death is that while it’s a 20% buff, it’s only active half the time, so it’s effectively only a 10% DPS boost. If you absolutely had to pick between that or Target the Weak, the latter is better.

Yeah but you can have both which is better than having target the weak and a 5% boost. So i think its pretty much a given that 30/25/0/0/15 is the best for it. Allows you to take focus and warhorn cooldown traits aswell. I would consider 30/30/0/0/10 if there was another useful trait in curses. But i prefer the extra crit damage and last gasp is a really good minor for survivability.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The thing about Close to Death is that while it’s a 20% buff, it’s only active half the time, so it’s effectively only a 10% DPS boost. If you absolutely had to pick between that or Target the Weak, the latter is better.

Actually it’s a bit worse than that. In terms of DPS, since it will be killing faster once it hits 50% it will spend less time at the below 50 threshold rather than 50/50. I don’t have the exact math but it works out to be like 8% overall.

spoj.9672:

I would consider 30/30/0/0/10 if there was another useful trait in curses. But i prefer the extra crit damage and last gasp is a really good minor for survivability.

RIP Withering Precision.

Heres the exact build I use, if it helps.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQRBIhhu1IjW6elmxGDfCA6Ru46cMjjXm+w6A-jAyAYrBRTQgpMgUBgkXR0YLuFRjVXjpcJiqBA-e

The rotation is basically to keep locust swarm up and flash DS on cooldown for fury and weakening shroud. The rest of the time its just dagger auto attack, but you treat it like warrior axe due to the huge damage of the final strike. You either cast the wells at the start or save them for below 50%. Im not sure whether focus 4 is a dps loss or not. But you can cast that for extra vuln, on a single target it works out as pretty much permanent 12 stacks of vuln as long as you use it on cooldown.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

spoj.9672:

I would consider 30/30/0/0/10 if there was another useful trait in curses. But i prefer the extra crit damage and last gasp is a really good minor for survivability.

RIP Withering Precision.

Indeed, they nerfed it into the ground. :<

Here’s some specifics based on my updated spreadsheet:

15/25/0/0/30 with a working Power of Undeath (+5%) is about 8.9k. If it’s only +90 power, it’s 8.65k.

10/30/0/30/0 is 8.55k + about 200/s from lifesteal, for 8.75k.

30/25/0/0/15 is about 9k.

Well of Suffering is worth a sustained 23 DPS over its entire cooldown. Well of Corruption is worth a whopping 5 DPS. Those aren’t worth it, at least not in theory if you can keep minions up. Signet of Spite is worth about 400 DPS, give or take, depending on your investment in the Spite line.

That means that theoretically, to max out DPS, you would want 30/25/0/0/15 with Bone Fiend, Shadow Fiend, Flesh Wurm, Signet of Spite, and Flesh Golem, which would give you a total DPS of about 10.8k with every possible buff (25 might, 25 vuln, 100% fury, Banner of Discipline, Banner of Strength, traited Frost Spirit, Empower Allies, Spotter, +10% damage potion, Curry Butternut Squash Soup).

Incidentally, it seems the numbers I’ve been quoting are a bit outdated because I wasn’t accounting for Spotter before. A guardian gets 11k with all of the above if he has Bane Signet, plus if you really must minmax he gets another 200 from spirit sword and hammer. If we are talking super minmax troll mode as well, a second warrior in the party who doesn’t have to buff others gets almost 12k with Empowered, Signet of Might, Signet of Fury, Frenzy, and Eviscerating followed by a Healing Surge.

So necros are still kind of losing out in terms of DPS, even if everything goes perfectly.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Well of Suffering is worth a sustained 23 DPS over its entire cooldown. Well of Corruption is worth a whopping 5 DPS. Those aren’t worth it, at least not in theory if you can keep minions up.

Whatever you’ve been smoking I’d like some too. I have no idea where you pulled these numbers from but they’re absolutely wrong. Wells have 1/4 sec cast time with little to no aftercast and do alot of damage over their duration. They just got a bit high cooldown but the damage my wells provide over their duration is AT LEAST comparable to all non-elite minions combined.

Not sure how your getting dps that low for wells. My well of suffering crits for about 2.5k 6 times on a 35 second cooldown without being buffed up. Assuming it consistantly crits and achieves that damage per tick 2.5k*6=15k. 15k/35 = 429dps. If it doesnt crit and does 1k per tick its 171dps. Obviously the numbers would be a bit lower due to cast time, after cast and a split second out of the auto attack, but not that much lower. But we all know fights rarely last long enough for you to consider it like that, so in many fights you will be doing better dps.

Id love to see your spreadsheet. Because somehow Im not convinced your calculating it right if your getting numbers like that.

From what i can tell necro’s single target dps isn’t really bad. Seems to be a bit stronger than ranger’s dps with a bear as pet. It doesn’t provide any group buffs though and completely leeches of the team, a thief for example who also relies on team buffs at least deals noticable more damage and at least provides stealth, blind field, stuns and has a good movement speed for different situations. Necros can blind enemies or stack vuln but nothing that can’t be done better by other professions. Conclusion: necro’s aren’t worth taking them, just as rangers aren’t for Arah or Mesmers aren’t for AC. The difference is that i don’t know any dungeon where choosing a necro would be a good choice.

Dub.1273:

From what i can tell necro’s single target dps isn’t really bad. Seems to be a bit stronger than ranger’s dps with a bear as pet. It doesn’t provide any group buffs though and completely leeches of the team, a thief for example who also relies on team buffs at least deals noticable more damage and at least provides stealth, blind field, stuns and has a good movement speed for different situations. Necros can blind enemies or stack vuln but nothing that can’t be done better by other professions. Conclusion: necro’s aren’t worth taking them, just as rangers aren’t for Arah or Mesmers aren’t for AC. The difference is that i don’t know any dungeon where choosing a necro would be a good choice.

A dungeon where you need boon removal and blind fields maybe. Id also say necro is probably a good choice for the dredge fractal, aoe chill and weakness + boon removal surely makes killing dredge easier. Although the dredge are immune to blind, the chill on blind trait still works. Just like guards vuln on blind. But yeah, i agree and thats why I dont use mine much anymore. If the damage was much better then id consider taking the necro more.

spoj.9672:

Not sure how your getting dps that low for wells. My well of suffering crits for about 2.5k 6 times on a 35 second cooldown without being buffed up. Assuming it consistantly crits and achieves that damage per tick 2.5k*6=15k. 15k/35 = 429dps. If it doesnt crit and does 1k per tick its 171dps. Obviously the numbers would be a bit lower due to cast time, after cast and a split second out of the auto attack, but not that much lower. But we all know fights rarely last long enough for you to consider it like that, so in many fights you will be doing better dps.

Are wells affected by crits and power? I just sort of assumed they weren’t. If they are Suffering would be worth about 450 DPS and Corruption would be about 100.

That would put you at about 11k even with Signet of Spite, Shadow Fiend, Golem, Blood Fiend, and Well of Suffering, with about 1k of that coming from minions. That still puts them basically even with guardians (which is pretty good, to be fair) but with all of the aforementioned shortcomings.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

spoj.9672:

Not sure how your getting dps that low for wells. My well of suffering crits for about 2.5k 6 times on a 35 second cooldown without being buffed up. Assuming it consistantly crits and achieves that damage per tick 2.5k*6=15k. 15k/35 = 429dps. If it doesnt crit and does 1k per tick its 171dps. Obviously the numbers would be a bit lower due to cast time, after cast and a split second out of the auto attack, but not that much lower. But we all know fights rarely last long enough for you to consider it like that, so in many fights you will be doing better dps.

Are wells affected by crits and power? I just sort of assumed they weren’t. If they are Suffering would be worth about 450 DPS and Corruption would be about 100.

That would put you at about 11k even with Signet of Spite, Shadow Fiend, Golem, Blood Fiend, and Well of Suffering, with about 1k of that coming from minions. That still puts them basically even with guardians (which is pretty good, to be fair) but with all of the aforementioned shortcomings.

Yep they are affected by power and crits. Which is why they are so popular.

LordByron.8369:

As many poor players when you can t just prove your point you recur to the usual QQ or Fnboysm accusations depending on wich is useful to your lack of knowledge.

But i deleted the long list i just say 2 things

The proof of your elementalist being carried is quite easy:

I can play fotm (high lvl start at 40 to 80 when AR is not enough to save you from oneshot) with pugs, you said more than one times you wont…….that alone is qute enough.

Other thing is i m sure every elementalist player choose to play a caster to swing a HAMMER with 5 attacking skills and nothing other….

The part about mesmer and fractal EXPECIALLY dredge is so wrong that is quite clear you don t have any point other than trying to discuss the posters themselves….

wow
-do you even know what QQ and fanboyism mean?
-anyone can join a party LF1M for FotM 79 and go into the instance, point?
-there are no “caster” classes in this game
-ele damage is pathetic without the hammer. Hammer also has aoe blind and blast finish in the auto chain and eles also have a trait giving aoe fury when blasting firefields,
-everything mesmers can do in dredge can be done much better with guardians, unless you are talking about the blink portal exploits.
-at least make an attempt to make your engrish understandable