Guild Wars 2

My advice would be to find a group of like-minded people (ie: guild) which doesn’t care who or what you bring into a dungeon; they are there to have fun and play the way they like. Unless you are looking to speed clear, almost all of the dungeons are fairly easy with any class as long as you know what you are doing.

That or you be the one to start the dungeon and create the LFG to your specifications.

You do not need to nerf heavies to do something with this. What you need is to properly buff other classes. However this elitism is something what evolved during time and it will die very very hard.

To all posters who ask “and do you use this or that build and equip”: Nobody realy cares. Try to join a speed group on a ranger or a necro. You will be mostly instantly kicked without a chance to say or show anything.

And one more thing – sword bores me on ranger. I have other characters for melee dps. I want to be ranged and use bow. This is rangers trademark weapon so I do not really care if you can make yourself almost as good as a warrior in dps (leaving survivability and support aside because wars will be always better at that) when using 1h sword and nothing else. I do not want to play sword only build. If I want go melee I would log my war or guard or thief.

Fext.3614:

I want to be ranged and use bow. This is rangers trademark weapon so I do not really care

This pretty much sums up why Rangers are kicked on site. Most share Fext’s sentiments of wanting to run POS weapons.

Best way to deal with it is to join a dungeon guild, or build up a friends list of good dungeon runners.

Since when bow is a trademark of rangers?

Fext.3614:

This is rangers trademark weapon so I do not really care if you can make yourself almost as good as a warrior in dps (leaving survivability and support aside because wars will be always better at that) when using 1h sword and nothing else.

Aragorn says “Hi”.

All rangers put your bows in the air like you just don’t care!

haviz.1340:

Since when bow is a trademark of rangers?

Unfortunately rangers read this description and just go with…..

“Ranger

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation."

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

haviz.1340:

Since when bow is a trademark of rangers?

Unfortunately rangers read this description and just go with…..

“Ranger

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation."

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

“rangers can adapt to any situation”

Aside from the speedrun meta. Maybe 0.5% can.

Define:

Epidemic – a widespread occurrence of an infectious disease in a community at a particular time.

The title is wrong making all subsequent posts off topic. Mods need to move this thread to trashcan.

notabot.3497:

kyubi.3620:

It does not unless your team is glassy to the point it cant take severe hit for to long or want to kill stuff by stacking. People when you stack you are theoricaly ’’facetanking’’ the targets weither you want to admit it or not and are somewhat exposed to blows you wouldnt take if you were actualy moving around. Players are supose to keep moving around to avoid hit while landing as many blow as possible but stacking actualy defy this very principe and makes for a dumber game because of it. Well i think at this point they should make all mob attack cleave in melee range.

Its stuff like this that makes me know that you really are good at talking out of your kitten .

When stacking a zerk group still dodges and uses active defenses. Its why they often stack against a wall or pillar, that way they don’t actually move when dodging. They make full use of those evade frames. They also make use of protection and aegis, in addition to blinds and other skills to mitigate or remove the hits entirely. Running around chaotically might sounds “fun” for some, but its more likely to cause unintended consequences (like moving the enemy out of a powerful rooted attack like hundred blades and the like, or aoes).

Many mobs already cleave in melee range, or use aoe spray type effects. In the stack with proper skill uses the effects of the enemy are negated. When used incorrectly, the entire stack will die in 2 seconds (sometimes less). The people that don’t realize this are leaches that stands in the stack but still benefit from the blinds/aegis/prots/interupts that the group is using.

The fact that you think that Anet actually wants people to play in only one way (moving around and not stacking, using “skill” to kite and tank or whatever your scrub definition of the proper not cheap way of winning is) and force changes to make your way of playing the only way means you are worse than the people who prefer to speed run/stack/Los who have no problem with letting the casual dungeon goer play in his own groups.

As for the other players who complain about getting kicked: You aren’t entitle to be able to join a group. There is no forced association in this game, people are free to leave and kick as they desire. Drop your entitled anti exclusionary millennial attitudes behind. If somebody doesn’t want you, don’t take it as a personal affront and justification to tattle to anet like a spoiled brat on the playground who was odd man out in making teams. Make your own groups and play by your own rules. If you continue to have problems getting into groups, check yourself. If you are running a crap build you need to change it. If you end up on the floor and get kicked, L2Play. If you are running a class that has no demand in the instance you are wanting to run, switch characters to one that is in demand. If you don’t want to change your build/class/playstyle to play with the “cool kids”, find your own group: be the group that has fun their own way, and not like the loser table that spends more time complaining about other people having fun.

Alright man. Thanks for calling it. It’s folks like Kyubi who get the kick.

I don’t usually mind taking someone who’s learning the path. Learning. Not making assumptions to justify running scrub gear and a scrub build. If you don’t know, it’s fine. Folks are there to help and mentor.

If you’re like Kyubi and #yolomode no-dodge encounters, you’re a bad player.

Almost every one of these claims about the dungeons are made regarding AC 1. Why? Because most of these trash players never make it outside AC 1.

Stacking is just the logical thing to do. What happens when it goes away? People like Kyubi stand no chance. No chance. Why? Because they don’t know how to play yet.

What happens to these ‘exploiters’ you hate so much? Nothing. Their times decrease a little bit because they have to dodge triangles around the boss and lose some DPS up-time.

Mobs already cleave in melee range :P ….that’s what Aegis is for. Not for when you feel scared but to mitigate damage on your team.

That’s all for today’s class.

Sylv.6514:

I repeatedly get kicked out of groups for not playing a Guardian or Warrior, and sometimes even receive major hate for maining a ranger. I don’t know what has to be done to change this, but something needs to change. I am getting sick of getting kicked from fractal groups for simply not playing a heavy armor class. Nerf heavies into the ground, buff mediums and lights, add a report option for kick abuse. I don’t care which, just do it so I don’t have to be forced to play 2/8 classes from fear of being kicked otherwise. The foundation of this game is supposed to be about playing what you want how you want, but with the way things are now, that is impossible to do without getting some sort of grief in return.

Patience is limited. Sometimes this crap just makes me want to quit the game for months at a time.

Do you even realize the irony in that statement? The people kicking you are playing with heavy classes only and that is the way they want to play.

I didn’t read through the whole thread because this is about the 10029949247th time someone posted about this and the answer is always “make your own group”.

Ethics.4519:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

haviz.1340:

Since when bow is a trademark of rangers?

Unfortunately rangers read this description and just go with…..

“Ranger

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation."

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

“rangers can adapt to any situation”

Aside from the speedrun meta. Maybe 0.5% can.

“With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”

We’re supposed to use “traps”, “spirits” and “pets” to help us adapt – all are broke. lol

Except maybe for Frost… but still…

Back to the OP’s topic, I main an ele and have over 11k AP, and still don’t have dungeon master yet. It’s not my bag, I don’t play the same way everyone else does. Instead I get an invite to go along on dungeon runs every now and then by some friends in my casual guild, and we use TS3 to communicate which helps immensely.

This said, it wouldn’t matter which toon I rolled, even the L55 guardian would have done just as well as my L80 ele did in lower level dungeons. The key is to play smart, know when to dodge, listen out for instructions and have people in the know. Even if you don’t want to talk, I’d recommend a TS3/mumble/vent download and listen to everything going on so that way you can be a part of the communications and just listen.

PS: I have an 80 ranger as well but she doesn’t go anywhere without spotter, frost spirit, zerker gear or the sword/warhorn combo with GS swap. She can do some immense damage, but thanks to the large amount of ranger hate I don’t do much group activity with her, and instead leave her to exploring the world.

Laughing at people who want heavies to be nerfed and others buffed. Imagine Elementalists DPS is buffed.

Sylv.6514:

The foundation of this game is supposed to be about playing what you want how you want

Those teams are playing how they want by forming a specific team of their own.

Just because most classes are accepted in the meta doesn’t mean all other parties will accept you, sometimes they just want to avoid bad randoms.

kicking you pre-run is fine just join another party (big deal – so much drama), during the run is a different story

Like others stated; make your own group & read party descriptions on lfg. I have been through 5 dungeons with a ranger as well as having other rangers in the groups. Only kick I got was for being inexperienced in a dungeon which I should have stated at the beginning of the run.

Even a full meta Ranger won’t bring as much to the table as an Elementalist. Sure I’d take a Ranger over an extra Warrior as banners can be covered with just one, but Eles are where it’s at (which is more of a problem with Eles insane DPS than anything else.)
There’s absolutely no reason to stack Guardians in dungeons, maybe in fractals for epic lazy times
As for stacking Warriors well, it is pretty safe to assume that even a pug can survive with the highest HP pool, the best heal skill in game, and the absolutely easiest access to delivering strong DPS (not the best, but strong nonetheless.)

spiritus.7983:

Some times I tolerate rangers on eazy dungeons, just rare.

well guess what, I let one in today, SE p3,
At fist boss ranger hump on that crap near the wall and start pew pew the boss, nothing wrong so far. one of the party member get 25 bleeds plus he was almost down, he run up there near the ranger to get rez when he will get downed. Gets downed and ranger he did nothing for 15-20 seconds until that warrior was rez by someone else. he just pew pew that mobs like is no one else. ok…
After the carrier there are 2 champions guarding a door, if you get near the door, the door open and a whole bunch of mobs sworm out. Guess what, our dear ranger push with an arrow skill one champ near the door, not enough for us to be near it and open. Second champions same thing… this time he did the job and we opend the door.

kick

Rangers ladys and gentlemens… you deserve this treathment. and never in my pt again

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

UltraFlyingTaco.7452:

1- I use greatsword and axe+wh (greatsword let’s me dodge,which is critical for 1 hit bosses)

2-Yes.

3-Yes.

4- Spider and jaguar/jungle stalker for might.

5- No, I use soldier with zerk trinkets.

I am a dungeon forums frequenter. And the axe on a ranger is seen as a giant No No. That thing is terrible, and will often get you kicked. Running stuff like that will create the bag stigma people have with Rangers. The Longbow is the obvious kick on sight, but axe rangers are generally viewed as not knowing their class(I’m not being mean here, just letting you know what the perception is).

Same as Guardian. If they join the dungeon holding a staff, mace or scepter then they get the boot. Unless its TA, and the staff is only for clearing blossoms.

Point I’m trying to make, is that Rangers dig themselves their own grave by running terrible builds, then it makes everyone who plays the class suffer. The reason why guardians are often saved from being so strictly banished, is because people are dumb. A bad guardian is a bad guardian. They should be booted just as quick as bad rangers, but the general masses of pugs don’t know how to properly filter out bads from goods, so they just use the “kick all X class”.

Any group worth their salt will keep a ranger who has:
1.) sword
2.) spotter, frost spirit
3.) zerker

So if you run the right build and get kicked. Its their lost. If you run a bad build, then you are to contributing to the negative stigma of your class.

So you kick support guardians? The main build of the guardian is support/heal with Mace+Shield and Staff. AH build is Staff/Gs. The only build you are considering is the one with Sword/Focus + Gs, that is completely useless, because the high damage (less than a war, mesmer or Ele) comes at the cost of condition removal, heal and boons for party. And a guard with no such support skills is like a War without his big damage coming from GS2.

The question on ranger is: Range is useless in this game, until the stacking warrior hundred blades system is up. Melee Rangers are DPS, but less than a warrior. So, the “pros” of the game don’t want such style of gameplay. Anet understand this and is trying to fixing this way to play this game.

In Italy we say “The mother of the idiots is Always pregnant” so, u’ll Always find who kick you because u are a Ranger. Also if u got spotter build, Jaguar, Sword+horn/Sword+axe, Frost spirit, healing spring and so on.

Sorry for my english, see you soon!

Stampede, 3500 hours of game maining a support guardian, never been kicked from a party. Support is a reality. Only idiots thinks that this game is all about zerk gear!

I recently did fractal lvl 6 with two rangers….. one of the worst experiences I’ve ever had.

The fractal lvl felt like 50.

I run a naked staff ele because GW2 has been dumbed down, caters to casuals and it’s IMPOSSIBLE to fail.

Stampede.5308:

So you kick support guardians? The main build of the guardian is support/heal with Mace+Shield and Staff. AH build is Staff/Gs. The only build you are considering is the one with Sword/Focus + Gs, that is completely useless, because the high damage (less than a war, mesmer or Ele) comes at the cost of condition removal, heal and boons for party. And a guard with no such support skills is like a War without his big damage coming from GS2.

The question on ranger is: Range is useless in this game, until the stacking warrior hundred blades system is up. Melee Rangers are DPS, but less than a warrior. So, the “pros” of the game don’t want such style of gameplay. Anet understand this and is trying to fixing this way to play this game.

In Italy we say “The mother of the idiots is Always pregnant” so, u’ll Always find who kick you because u are a Ranger. Also if u got spotter build, Jaguar, Sword+horn/Sword+axe, Frost spirit, healing spring and so on.

Sorry for my english, see you soon!

Stampede, 3500 hours of game maining a support guardian, never been kicked from a party. Support is a reality. Only idiots thinks that this game is all about zerk gear!

> Guardian damage worse than Mesmer
> Worse than Mesmer
> Worse than Mesmer

Thank you official forums, now I can accurately state “I’ve heard it all”.

Any support needed from a Guardian is brought via Utilities and Traits, all of which a Berserker Guard has access to.
But as I re read your post I get the strong feeling that I’m being trolled so w/e.

Sir Isaac The Great.5341:

Are you joining groups that say no ranger in them? If so that might be your problem. I generally ask for no ranger as the average pug ranger uses longbow, has bear pet, no spotter or frost spirit, and uses sig of the hunt.

Sadly those types of rangers ruined it for all in dungeons. If you really want to avoid being kicked you should make your own party on the LFG tool. It will fill with people and you will have fun.

I use a longbow, but I also bring frost spirit and spotter, and don’t use bears unless the situation calls for them (ie. Mai Trin). I’m up into the 40s in fractal difficulty now, and no one has complained so far.

I think it’s mostly ranger prejudice. I usually don’t have problems being kicked as ele (only happened once before, and it was at the height of warrior cof farming). I do see the occasional fractal post only wanting guard or war.

I can safely say I’ve had little trouble finding groups (even in speed runs) as a ranger. While I’m sure such pedantic judgmental little snots exist, I find them to be a vast, overwhelming minority of the player base… and those twerps really aren’t worth my time anyway.

Sylv.6514:

I don’t know what has to be done to change this…

we must purge their minds of all impurities.

People are allowed to kick whoever they want. There is no abuse to be reported.

That said, I fully agree that some major changes are desperately needed in PvE to make more builds viable and desired. Doesn’t help when ArenaNet nerfs medium classes based on WvW roamers.

Exactly why can’t you create your own group with your own rules?

Stampede.5308:

And a guard with no such support skills is like a War without his big damage coming from GS2.

Stampede.5308:

guard with no such support skills

Stampede.5308:

no

Stampede.5308:

such

Stampede.5308:

support

Stampede.5308:

big damage

Please read obal’s guide thoroughly before you come back, and hopefully without your carebear clerics’ gear.

Sadly with the DPS reduction my guild and I were discussing that this will probably lead to more people wanting only heavies now. Up til now a coup,e of heavies were fine for all content, this change may push some people now to only have heavies to compensate for the damage reduction on berserker gear.

heavy… as in non-necro, non-engi, non-ele, non-ranger, non-thief, non-mesmer?
how pathetic.

Stampede.5308:

because the high damage (less than a war, mesmer or Ele) comes at the cost of condition removal, heal and boons for party……..And a guard with no such support skills is like a War without his big damage coming from GS2.

- Guardian has better potential DPS with most of the damage buffs present than warrior. Already mathematically proven.

- What use is your heal if the party doesn’t need it?

- DPS guard can bring condi removal/boons/reflects/aegis using utility skills. All the extra you bring by using useless PVE traits are just extra fat.

- The point is optimization – meaning don’t be fat, be lean.

Stampede.5308:

Stampede, 3500 hours of game maining a support guardian, never been kicked from a party. Support is a reality. Only idiots thinks that this game is all about zerk gear!

3500 hours yet you’re not exactly breaking records or having the math in proving your build is better.

When it comes to dungeons PVE is all about zerk gear for now, it has proven to be the fastest and best. I distinctly remember hrouda (previous dungeon designer) to say that if you have a good team you can run full zerk, if you dont then pad up with defensive stats.

More damage = faster kill. So unless you can heal your enemies to death i don’t see it being essential

So if you think you’re better than the people who create the records, please post your own evidence or mathematical calculations; claims with no evidence are worthless.

I think the basic problem with “heavies only” is that both heavy classes are (usually) more forgiving to mistakes even when built as glasscannons. It’s a different mechanic in both cases and the heavy armour is only part of the actual eqation, but still.
So people who try to go for “easymode” will prefer to take those.
That they actually criplle themselves due to poor party composition will never occur to them because medium dps with acceptable sustain combines to a rather easy to complete dungeon within an acceptable timeframe.

The problem however is that only a part of the problem can be adressed by the developement team. The rest is entirely up to the community because it’s in the players’ minds.
And ultimately, it’s their own decision in the long run how they wish to play. A rather simple solution for that comes in a later paragraph, just in case you were wondering.

As far as “hate towards rangers” goes. There are I guess two stigmas attached to rangers.
One: For the speed runners: They do subpar dmg compared to other classes. Even when traited and equppped properly for speedruns.

Two applies I think to all, not just speedclear setups: A ranger requires a bit more control (this includes selfcontrol) or micromanagement compared to let’s say a warrior. At least in my experience.
You have to control your pet directly for example to make sure ist doesn’t mess up positioning. In addition the best dps weapon the ranger has is rather difficult to control because you can’t simply break a large part of your AA chain to dodge. You have to rely on your skills to get a more or less well timed dodge. And both of the inbuilt avoidance skills of the sword can seriously mess up positioning. Plus you can’t “max range melee” with a sword as a ranger and more often than not jump through an object you’re trying to damage. Try it against the Mark II golem in the Maelstrom Mointains. You’ll understand the problem immediately. [brzzzzzt]
Even when using a longbow for example, there is a certain increased control required to make it work properly. (Please metagamers and speedclearers, just ignore this paragraph. I know using the word longbow and properly in a PvE setting gives you the hives.)
For example using it agains a group you’l have to use better positioning than other classes, because your main AE come from piercing arrows. and Those require good positioning. In addition: don’t panic every time a mob gets close to you. Pushing away a mob more often than not harms the groups effort instead of helping. (This applies to GS mesmers even more btw…)
And those are just the most obvious examples.

Someone else mentioned why give us all those choices in weapons and utilities if they are so clearly “subpar”? Note: Subpar when it comes to efficiency, for speedrunning and the like.
Well for two reasons:
Number one: fun. Some people enjoy playing wit an axe in their mainhand. Or being an archer. and there is nothing wrong with that as long as you play with likeminded people. And that’s the ultimate solution btw.: Play with likeminded people.
There are literally millions of players out there. Just look for those that share your philosophy in GW2 and you’re golden.
Number 2: Not everything is PvE and not everything in PvE is dungeons. Sounds weird in the dungeon forum I know.
But the game only distinguishes in a small number of skills between PvP and PvE. An some skills that clearly compete subpar in a dungeon environment when it comes to efficiency will work wonders in open world PvE, WvW or PvP. That’s why we have all those skills. For different gaming environments.
Does that make them all equally efficient in all environments? No, it doesn’t. Would it be nice if they did? Certainly. But to achieve something like that is simply impossible in a multiclass/multi environment setup.

Wow, this got longer than I expected. Sorry for that.

Tl;dr: Look for likeminded people, play with them, be golden!

Dolan.3071:

> Guardian damage worse than Mesmer
> Worse than Mesmer
> Worse than Mesmer

Lol. I main a mesmer and my jaw dropped a little bit when I read it at as well.

I mean, maybe he is exclusively talking about Lupi p2? shrug

“And a guard with no such support skills is like a War without his big damage coming from GS2.”

Lol, this explains more as well

The ranger hate is not because more bad player play it. Its a combination of factor.

1) Its probably the weakest profession right now. I’m not bashing the class, i have one. But still the weakest of all 8. Mainly because part of your DPS come from pets which are AI. Same problem with Mesmer which get part of their DPS from their AI phantasm, but phantasm are more predictable than pet and Mesmer bring more group utilities. Which is limited from a Rangers.

2) The profession is view as a range profession. Its advertise as such and his the only profession with two bow. This is perfectly normal that most people playing the range expect and want to play range. This is perfect, except that currently people have master the game enough to melee pretty much everything and someone in range can’t participate or receive the party boons and support that melee have when they stack close. They are not bad player, they just want to play their profession as it should be.

3) Some weird thinking among the PUGs. Ranger is not optimal that for sure. But if you gonna kick a Ranger you better have yourself a optimal build. I’m talking about full zerker in your gear and trait. If are kicking a Ranger but you are a Warrior running shout heal, knight gear or even soldier gear then you got some balls as the ranger will probably have better DPS than you. Also if you gonna kick someone only because its a ranger you should put that in LFG.

Overall, the ranger hate don’t come from Ranger player. Its come from a Bad designed profession that just not fit into the game design (a range profession with AI pet in a melee game, really). And that on Anet.

And freaking stupid pugs that think ranger = bad even if themselves use a bad build, combine with bad information (or lack of information) put in the LFG tools .

The only group that should kick a Ranger on sight would be a full zerker group that ask for a particular profession/zerker.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

UltraFlyingTaco.7452:

1- I use greatsword and axe+wh (greatsword let’s me dodge,which is critical for 1 hit bosses)

2-Yes.

3-Yes.

4- Spider and jaguar/jungle stalker for might.

5- No, I use soldier with zerk trinkets.

I am a dungeon forums frequenter. And the axe on a ranger is seen as a giant No No. That thing is terrible, and will often get you kicked. Running stuff like that will create the bag stigma people have with Rangers. The Longbow is the obvious kick on sight, but axe rangers are generally viewed as not knowing their class(I’m not being mean here, just letting you know what the perception is).

Same as Guardian. If they join the dungeon holding a staff, mace or scepter then they get the boot. Unless its TA, and the staff is only for clearing blossoms.

Point I’m trying to make, is that Rangers dig themselves their own grave by running terrible builds, then it makes everyone who plays the class suffer. The reason why guardians are often saved from being so strictly banished, is because people are dumb. A bad guardian is a bad guardian. They should be booted just as quick as bad rangers, but the general masses of pugs don’t know how to properly filter out bads from goods, so they just use the “kick all X class”.

Any group worth their salt will keep a ranger who has:
1.) sword
2.) spotter, frost spirit
3.) zerker

So if you run the right build and get kicked. Its their lost. If you run a bad build, then you are to contributing to the negative stigma of your class.

I don’t mean to offend you (it’s not like this is your opinion) but this is far away from being able to play any content any way you want to and imho it should be Anet’s first priority to fix since I suffer from playing a underpowered/ generally hated build myself and it really breaks the most important point of the game.

@Escadin The truth is you can play how you want. Make your own groups accepting all builds and classes. You will complete any content in this game. It may be painfully slow. But you can definitely play how you want. Just make your own parties or join a “play how I want guild” and you good to go.

@Stampede. He brining dem OP dodge healls. Keeping all you zerker noobs alive.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

@Stampede. He brining dem OP dodge healls. Keeping all you zerker noobs alive.

Zerker are not noobs. The game need zerkers. And zerkers needs someone who keep them alive.

The Obal build is 25/30/0/0/15.
The Support buil is 0/0/30/30/10.

I don’t see where Obal’s one have traits in support’s trait lines.

In the Obal’s post, he says that build is the one with more damage, not the strongest and not the most useful.

With my mesmer normally can do 40k+ damages with first burst, never see that numbers, also with obal build (that I tried a lot).

Please, learn to play before copycat builds thinking to be pro only just watching a video of big damages, after minutes of boon set up.

Dungeon’s run are very different from DNT gameplay videos. I repeat, never seen a support guardian been kicked. I see lot’s of time a Obal permadowned guardian been kicked. If a guardian can’t remove my conditions, is rubbish. With my guard i have 3 aoe skill that give 2 boons and convert 1 contion into boon. Break stun, stability, protection, regeneration, and other useful things to turn a permadowned zerker
into a war/mesm/ele/necro/thief. I got 12 stacks of might, lots of healing skills and regen and dodging (and with sigils i can dodge a lot) i heal 1.8k AoE for dodge.

I have 4 skills that give Aegis (yes 4) and that can let the war end his hundred blades. These are ALL things that Obal’s build can’t grant to party and yourself. But obal build can do 3k damage of autoattack. GREAT, the same damage that my mesmer do with HIS autoattack.

I think that most of guys write on this post never try out a guardian. And, moreover, never try out a ranger.

Please, learn to play.

Bread.7516:

Stampede.5308:

because the high damage (less than a war, mesmer or Ele) comes at the cost of condition removal, heal and boons for party……..And a guard with no such support skills is like a War without his big damage coming from GS2.

- Guardian has better potential DPS with most of the damage buffs present than warrior. Already mathematically proven.

- What use is your heal if the party doesn’t need it?

- DPS guard can bring condi removal/boons/reflects/aegis using utility skills. All the extra you bring by using useless PVE traits are just extra fat.

- The point is optimization – meaning don’t be fat, be lean.

Stampede.5308:

Stampede, 3500 hours of game maining a support guardian, never been kicked from a party. Support is a reality. Only idiots thinks that this game is all about zerk gear!

3500 hours yet you’re not exactly breaking records or having the math in proving your build is better.

When it comes to dungeons PVE is all about zerk gear for now, it has proven to be the fastest and best. I distinctly remember hrouda (previous dungeon designer) to say that if you have a good team you can run full zerk, if you dont then pad up with defensive stats.

More damage = faster kill. So unless you can heal your enemies to death i don’t see it being essential

So if you think you’re better than the people who create the records, please post your own evidence or mathematical calculations; claims with no evidence are worthless.

Never talked about records, But succes rate. A downed player makes no DPS.
If noone goes downed, DPS of 4 player is the same of 5 that continuosly go downed. If the thing is MAKES THE MOST DAMAGE, you only need to play a party with 5 same classes/builds. So, what’s the point of having 8?

Hoping to see you in game, so I can see if u with an Obal’s build guardian, can have a normal run without being downed!

Stampede.5308:

Never talked about records, But succes rate. A downed player makes no DPS. If noone goes downed, DPS of 4 player is the same of 5 that continuosly go downed. If the thing is MAKES THE MOST DAMAGE, you only need to play a party with 5 same classes/builds. So, what’s the point of having 8?

Hoping to see you in game, so I can see if u with an Obal’s build guardian, can have a normal run without being downed!

In reality, that zerker guardian did more damage while s(he) was up vs you being up the whole time. Everyone has a heal so you are just over healing while others work hard to take down the boss. So enjoy your tea and crumpets thinking you are carrying the team when in actuality.. the whole team is carrying you. Guards like you is why now I see no guards in lfg. Do you even use WoR.. just wondering.

To OP, I have been on my mesmer more than my guard and haven’t gotten kicked yet. Actually, once I did join a group that wanted no guard. I was on my guard. I joined and told them I was getting on my mesmer. I was kicked while logging into my mezzy. Some people have no patience… Anyways, there are certain classes that I think are better to bring to dungeons and fractals than others. I am leveling a necro but probably won’t bring her to dungeons/FoTM when I get her to 80. She will be used for solo roaming and w vs w.

We have five slots that GW2 gives us to play with.. and leveling doesn’t take an insanely long time like some other mmos.. If you choose to play a class that is discriminated because most player base doesn’t play it optimally.. then well expect it to be harder to get into average pug groups. Like for example, a ranger that knocksback the dredge powersuit while rest of us are trying to position him under the bucket.

But an epidemic against non-heavies is an extreme statement that has no basis. And like many that mentioned it on previous posts. You can always make your own lfg.

Stampede.5308:

Bread.7516:

Stampede.5308:

because the high damage (less than a war, mesmer or Ele) comes at the cost of condition removal, heal and boons for party……..And a guard with no such support skills is like a War without his big damage coming from GS2.

- Guardian has better potential DPS with most of the damage buffs present than warrior. Already mathematically proven.

- What use is your heal if the party doesn’t need it?

- DPS guard can bring condi removal/boons/reflects/aegis using utility skills. All the extra you bring by using useless PVE traits are just extra fat.

- The point is optimization – meaning don’t be fat, be lean.

Stampede.5308:

Stampede, 3500 hours of game maining a support guardian, never been kicked from a party. Support is a reality. Only idiots thinks that this game is all about zerk gear!

3500 hours yet you’re not exactly breaking records or having the math in proving your build is better.

When it comes to dungeons PVE is all about zerk gear for now, it has proven to be the fastest and best. I distinctly remember hrouda (previous dungeon designer) to say that if you have a good team you can run full zerk, if you dont then pad up with defensive stats.

More damage = faster kill. So unless you can heal your enemies to death i don’t see it being essential

So if you think you’re better than the people who create the records, please post your own evidence or mathematical calculations; claims with no evidence are worthless.

Never talked about records, But succes rate. A downed player makes no DPS.
If noone goes downed, DPS of 4 player is the same of 5 that continuosly go downed. If the thing is MAKES THE MOST DAMAGE, you only need to play a party with 5 same classes/builds. So, what’s the point of having 8?

Hoping to see you in game, so I can see if u with an Obal’s build guardian, can have a normal run without being downed!

I think the problem here is you assume everyone plays as bad as you/needs all your “support” when in reality they aren’t/don’t need your “support”.

“support” and damage aren’t mutually exclusive too, this is the idea that most players don’t understand and probably will not because they don’t try to improve their gameplay/too lazy and are contented to face tanking with AH/Clerics gear.

30 in valor has absolutely nothing to offer support-wise and everyone who run that justifies with AH which is a selfish and unnecessary trait for survivability if you know how to play a guardian correctly.

I’ve tried everything for guardians, AH 0/0/30/30/10 (was stuck with this for more than a year before I realize its useless), meta builds etc. and the current meta has the best balance between damage and meaningful support.

@OP

Start your own parties, make it clear what you expect from everyone who wants to join. TBH you don’t really need more than 1 guard/warr in a party.

All those parties wanting heavies only are just going by the chance that a bad guard/warr will do more than a bad necro/ranger/engi/whatever. Can’t say that they are right or wrong because that’s how they choose to play(I personally don’t want more than 1 guard/warr in my parties because you lose more potential damage modifiers/might stacking from say ele/ranger).

Stampede.5308:

long, offensive, misinformative post

Obal’s actual full dps build is 20/25/0/0/25, where you can get traited Absolute resolution and if you need, you can throw in Purging flames, but there are not that many conditions in the game. And you know actually you have 4 party members that can help you out too.
Also, the supportive hammer build by him, which mostly used in fractals also has this support and perma protection for a little less damage.
So while you provide support with negative dps and meaningless healing along with swiftness symbol and a CC wall which does nothing ’cuz of Defiant well yeah, we need to learn to play.

edit: Also, stability, reflects, aegis are on the right side of the skillbar, so “zerker noobs” can use it too not only the almighty support ones.

edit2: Educate yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRnw05Boi8I

Stampede.5308:

If a guardian can’t remove my conditions, is rubbish. With my guard i have 3 aoe skill that give 2 boons and convert 1 contion into boon. Break stun, stability, protection, regeneration, and other useful things to turn a permadowned zerker
into a war/mesm/ele/necro/thief. I got 12 stacks of might, lots of healing skills and regen and dodging (and with sigils i can dodge a lot) i heal 1.8k AoE for dodge.

I have 4 skills that give Aegis (yes 4) and that can let the war end his hundred blades. These are ALL things that Obal’s build can’t grant to party and yourself. But obal build can do 3k damage of autoattack. GREAT, the same damage that my mesmer do with HIS autoattack.

I think that most of guys write on this post never try out a guardian. And, moreover, never try out a ranger.

Please, learn to play.

I run a zerker greatsword/s+f build and I have tons of conditional removal at my disposal. If traited, popping a Virtue of Resolve cures conditions on allies. Not to mention that Purging Flames and Smite Conditions are condi cleansers that I use as CC which can be used on a zerker guardian. I have those utilities too. Also, If you pop a WoR and do a whirling combo, that is an extra condi remover.. So I am not sure where your misinformation came from.. it’s inaccurate. Not to mention that stabilities, aegis, reflection that you mentioned. I have them.. so yes. I do tons of damage while bringing loads of support (the same support you provide) to my team. Only things I sacrifice is my health pool and I am a bit squishy.. but I don’t find myself on the ground as much as I used to when I first started, and I am not even close to 8000 hours of playtime.

The might stacking is unnecessary role for a guard since other classes do it better and for longer duration. The heal is not needed if you focus with others to damage the boss because that’s one sure way you know that the team won’t wipe. If you are not contributing significantly to dps in PVE, then you are doing it wrong, it’s simple as that.

Furthermore, I play a mesmer as well.. a zerker/assassin combo due to precision for crit. I can say that with personal experience and play time, that mesmers do less damage than zerker guards. I do use a phantasm build rather than shatter build, so that may be the reason why. Mesmers, also can not kill a trash mob as effectively that a guard can.

Stampede.5308:

Please, learn to play.

This…. You have the information and yet counter argue it with wrong information that’s nonsensical. That’s even worse than a player who doesn’t have the knowledge at his or her disposal. There are other alternative to the pure dps guardian. The Hammer guard is much more supportive than the AH/Cleric guards.

necroing a kittenty thread with a kittenty post, gg

guanlongwucaii.3162:

necroing a kittenty thread with a kittenty post, gg

Sssh, don’t ruin the fun.

Wait, it took you over a month to come up with an argument to defend your leecher support build?

So some things I’ve read that aren’t true.

#1-Guardians with proper buffs and a proper build carry higher dps than warrior.

#2-Ranger sword auto is better than warrior axe auto. A pure axe warrior build is viable, and carries the same dps and a gs+axe/mace (if no wall is involved) so really A ranger is just fine for DPS. This brings me to my 3rd point.

#3-GS is not the only DPS build for warrior, people must still be a year behind.

#4-I have seen the “downed DPS is no DPS” argument, 2 things about this one.
A. Even in downed state I deal more damage than your healing guardian.
B. People don’t understand that we in DnT are a higher caliber of player than your average pug, watch our streams we rarely go down. Now for my 5th.

#5-Average pugs do not ever pay full attention to build guides, videos, etc that we have put out. We always state that these builds are for ORGANIZED GROUPS,
If you’re pugging, you are not an organized group. This means you probably should not be running optimal builds for a couple reasons.
A. Pugs like their terrible healing builds, this means you don’t have the damage to complete anything fast.
B. Pugs like their terrible healing builds, this means you don’t have the proper knowledge of the game to know when to dodge.
C. Pugs like their terrible healing builds, this means that if they see you go downed even ONE time you are just so terrible that you should just uninstall.

#6-People talking here probably haven’t even seen Obal play. Personally he is the best PvE guardian in the game. Find someone, ANYONE, no matter the build; that can complete the same content as Obal, not only faster, but without going down, Obal very rarely does. If at all. Learn the people you speak about before talking about them.

#7-I see people claim that Obals build can’t remove conditions, I want them to go and look over the build. Look at the suggested skills. Then list every encounter that you need condition removal. You will probably realize some more things.
A. the build does have condition removal, you never bothered to look that’s why you don’t know.
B. If you had any sort of decent damage, you wouldn’t EVER need more than 3 condition cleanses.

I think that covers everything, I hate seeing people talk about bad experiences and try to link it back to people running “zerker trash” you don’t know the build, you obviously don’t know the game.
Quit blaming peoples failures on us, it isn’t our fault that you can’t run a damage spec or that they don’t screen their parties better to keep healing players out.

What a coincidence, A guild mate and I just discussed about this “Ranger in dungeons” issue. This guild mate of mine has Ranger of it’s own, yet it’s a very good ranger for dungeon runs. This character does not use any zerk-trinkets for that matter.

But to the topic at hand: I think most people have to see the values in playing a Ranger. If they don’t know about these “values”, well…..you know from your own experience what happens next if you enter a dungeon PUG.

When my guild is running dungeons, we don’t expect someone to bring a heavy-class or full zerker, I think PUG should think the same as we do. But, that’s just my opninion.

Xyonon.3987:

GS is pretty bad since it deals less damage than the sword, has less evades and is in general just worse.

Is this a joke? I guess AOE doesn’t exist anymore.

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

Xyonon.3987:

GS is pretty bad since it deals less damage than the sword, has less evades and is in general just worse.

Is this a joke? I guess AOE doesn’t exist anymore.

Sword deals more damage AND still cleaves. The 3rd part of the chain deals damage behind you too and has higher aoe cap, but correct me if i’m remember wrong.
Also … aoe =/= cleave