Guild Wars 2

Something I’ve noticed since reaching endgame and starting to try and run explorable mode dungeons is that, seemingly, the vast majority of explorable mode groups demand that players be experienced at running the dungeon.

I have been unable to find a group for AC explorable because of this, which is actually almost amusing. Nobody wants to run with inexperienced players, which in turn prevents them from gaining experience at running it. I’ve been kicked from groups for asking questions about what I’m supposed to be doing – not even making a mistake. I’m looking at gw2lfg.com’s listings for AC Explore, and literally every LFM entry states either “speed run” or “experienced only!”

While I understand the desire to complete grinding content as rapidly as possible, can anyone explain the total intolerance of these players? What does it say of the state of the game if the majority of dungeon-running players are adopting mindsets like this?

Why not just post upfront that you are relatively inexperienced or that you want a group of people who do not mind inexperienced people?

Why not start your own group?

Oh and:

I’m looking at gw2lfg.com’s listings for AC Explore, and literally every LFM entry states either “speed run” or “experienced only!”

“LF3M AC Path 1&2. Alt Swappin at boss welcomed. Taking one lv 40. /join Nayix”

“LF3M AC all/any path(s)”

“lf1m, all paths, self join, not skipping kholer, so please be proficient at dodging”

“GLF 1m AC path 1”

“LF1M FOR P2 SELF INVITE”

These are the 5 most recent LFM posts on gw2lfg.com

Everytime someone says that I look it up on lfg.com and every single time they are completely full of kitten.

Don’t worry, these “experienced” people usually suck.

I’ve tried both of those approaches. So far the results have been to get me kicked from the group, be unable to get recruited to a group, and be unable to recruit additional players. I will continue to try at it, since there’s really not much else I can do, but it’s very frustrating constantly being turned down simply for not having ran the content before.

Unfortunately posting that up-front essentially requires the use of in-game chat, which mean hitting far fewer potential party members than would otherwise be reachable via lfg.com.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Everytime someone says that I look it up on lfg.com and every single time they are completely full of kitten.

I guess you didn’t notice that lfg.com is, due to its very nature, constantly changing? The 10 minute interval between my post and yours matters. Consider that before you accuse people of being full of kitten.

Wethospu.6437:

Don’t worry, these “experienced” people usually suck.

This pretty much sums it up. I’ve only ever joined a group that says experienced only if I’m cramped for time and that’s all that is up but will never do so again. If you think AC is bad just filter on Arah. I even join Arah groups that don’t post experienced only and am asked if I ever have done it quite a bit. I reply no and am kicked most of the time and am glad to not have my time wasted on a group like that even though I have done the dungeon over 100 times and have a full set on.

In short, make your own group and stay away from experienced only or speed run groups. All i do anymore is LFM and don’t plan on going back to LFG anytime soon. I’ve had a much more pleasant time that way.

that is how anet is changing the game.

Base a game on rewards and you see what happens…..

Its not about personal goals is about having to farm for legendary TIER…

Also in fotm an unexperienced player that doens t read chat is worse than playing in 4 or even 3.

Why are you not learning these dungeons within your guild? Best place for learning. Pugs just want to get in and out most of the time.

I can’t blame someone for being tired of teaching that 100th newbie the ropes, tbh. I’m weary of it myself.

Blueshield.6291:

I’ve tried both of those approaches. So far the results have been to get me kicked from the group, be unable to get recruited to a group, and be unable to recruit additional players. I will continue to try at it, since there’s really not much else I can do, but it’s very frustrating constantly being turned down simply for not having ran the content before.

Unfortunately posting that up-front essentially requires the use of in-game chat, which mean hitting far fewer potential party members than would otherwise be reachable via lfg.com.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Everytime someone says that I look it up on lfg.com and every single time they are completely full of kitten.

I guess you didn’t notice that lfg.com is, due to its very nature, constantly changing? The 10 minute interval between my post and yours matters. Consider that before you accuse people of being full of kitten.

I checked within 5 minutes of your post, and some of the ones I listed were 10 minutes or older.

The fact is, people love to sit here and say “even on lfg.com all the postings are only experienced or only speed runs” then that isn’t true, ever.

SteepledHat.1345:

Why are you not learning these dungeons within your guild? Best place for learning. Pugs just want to get in and out most of the time.

I can’t blame someone for being tired of teaching that 100th newbie the ropes, tbh. I’m weary of it myself.

Not all players are members of large guilds full of anonymous people that can constantly hammer out dungeons.

It’s not that I don’t understand someone being tired of teaching new players, it’s that in my experience (on TC) so far, the vast majority of players have that mindset.

I came to the game several months after launch, therefore wasn’t around when everyone was learning the dungeons for the first time. The fact that people are demanding experienced players seems to indicate a stagnant playerbase.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

I checked within 5 minutes of your post, and some of the ones I listed were 10 minutes or older.

The fact is, people love to sit here and say “even on lfg.com all the postings are only experienced or only speed runs” then that isn’t true, ever.

The fact is, it doesn’t take five minutes to type a one-sentence insult. You apparently simply don’t understand lfg.com or are just trying to argue. New posts go up, old ones get removed by their posters. You can’t check the board considerably later and use that as proof that others are lying. It’s rude and it’s dishonest. Sniping over minutia like this is irrelevant and doesn’t further the discussion in any way.

OP – I’m level 36 and haven’t done the story mode yet. I’m looking for complete noobs to run AC with me this weekend and will be advertising this point to them.

One thing I hated about Dungeon running in WoW was the fact I joined 6 years after the game came out and everyone knows everything about the dungeons, whilst I wanted to explore.

Good luck finding people to run with – I’ll be in the same position tonight!

Southern Lord.7254:

OP – I’m level 36 and haven’t done the story mode yet. I’m looking for complete noobs to run AC with me this weekend and will be advertising this point to them.

Fortunately I haven’t ever had difficulty forming/joining groups for story mode dungeons. It’s only the explorables that people treat like a job rather than a source of entertainment. I hope you enjoy running it, and if you need another player, shoot me a whisper or PM!

I know someone has said it before but the best place to learn a new dungeon is within a guild (and I don’t even mean one of those “big anonymous guilds that hammer out dungeons all day.” because any guild with 4 other players that play in the same time schedule will work.)

I’ve been playing since beta and their are several dungeons that I know very well, like AC or TA, and others that I don’t know anything about, such as CoE.

With my experiences with being new to a dungeon, most groups don’t mind telling newbies what to do as long as you get on a VOIP server like TeamSpeak, Vent, Mumble, Raidcall, etc. The reason for this is that most dungeons are extremely easy and easy to explain… when you are speaking. This is not true about typing though which leads many people, including myself, to require TS or vent when taking people on their first run. Microphones aren’t required (encouraged maybe) because all you need to do is listen to the instructions and follow them.
Even with PuGs you can find groups that are on a TeamSpeak server that are willing to provide you with the info if it will make the dungeon smoother.

I wish you luck and urge you not to be discouraged because there are many players in your position who want to experience the content for the first time.

It doesn’t take too long to get enough experience honestly for most dungeons. Just find a couple noob groups from gw2lfg until you feel confident enough to join the experienced groups. It’ll take a day max to find enough groups to become “experienced”, and from there it’s smooth sailing. It’s not like finding a job or anything…

I guess it’s because lots of people got tired of explaining everything every run. It’s not so bad when newbs listen to what experienced party member says. But there are really crowds of people who have no idea about the dungeon but don’t listen to what the party has to say.This can really ruin the run. I’ve personally done AC in 20 minutes with 3 ppl who were there first time and 1 who had done it once. Why? Because when i said ‘we do it this way’ – they did. On the other hand I’ve had >40mins runs because two ppl just did their way and totally ruined the teamwork. I don’t mind unexperienced people if they want to learn. But how can I know? But kicking someone for just asking is riddiculous. If u ask means u will obey – i definitely wouldn’t kick such a person.
Unfortunately this will get even worse with the change they’ll introduce. If all party will need to leave combat to allow someone to respawn nobody will want to take new players to party. I won’t, call me what you will, but I have no intention of resing someone from dead with boss on my neck or reseting boss to get out of combat so someone can use WP. People do dungeons because its the only reliable gold source in the game so they want to do them smoothly. Simple as that.

Calia.1348:

I guess it’s because lots of people got tired of explaining everything every run. It’s not so bad when newbs listen to what experienced party member says. But there are really crowds of people who have no idea about the dungeon but don’t listen to what the party has to say.This can really ruin the run.
…

This is mostly the reason for me. And when I’m giving tips, I will also try to word the tips or “instructions” in a suitable way. A few times, my clarity is mistaken for treating a newcomer “like a kid”. I will back down and the runs don’t run well. Sometimes when I am giving tips to newcomers, some experienced team mates get offended thinking I am giving tips to them and they lash out.

Hey I was a newcomer a while back and I also would like to pay it forward. But some newcomers really isn’t making it easy.

If you was kicked from the party inside the dungeon just report them.

If you was kicked from the party outside, well good luck with your next party.

If you are blaiming anet because people love to think they are pro players and choose only others with same mindse, stop anet will not solve people stupidity.

And OP, my first guild in GW2 was really small, only a bunch of friends. We w
asn´t doing more dungeons because most of times we had one or two spots left. So we talked and joined a bigger guild and made more dungeons.

Why don´t you simply join a bigger guilds with your freinds?

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Oh and:

These are the 5 most recent LFM posts on gw2lfg.com

I smell bullkitten

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

I checked within 5 minutes of your post, and some of the ones I listed were 10 minutes or older.

So which is it?

Yeah OP, your best bet is to start your own group and state you intend to kill, you would be surprised how fast it fills. I also agree with Wethospu.6437, “experienced” pugs are usually 9 times out of 10 the worst possible pugs you will ever experience, 6/10 for clearing the dungeon but the amount of whining and kittening and arguing just makes you want to impale yourself on your own weapon after a single path.

Southern Lord.7254:

OP – I’m level 36 and haven’t done the story mode yet. I’m looking for complete noobs to run AC with me this weekend and will be advertising this point to them.

One thing I hated about Dungeon running in WoW was the fact I joined 6 years after the game came out and everyone knows everything about the dungeons, whilst I wanted to explore.

Good luck finding people to run with – I’ll be in the same position tonight!

Why yes, good luck to both of you!

One of my toons leveled to 60 last night and with it an in game email that I had “access” to yet another dungeon. Once I had figured out how to get to the entrance I waited. And waited. Then went off to do something else. (sigh)

Each evening this week I’ve attempted to play out any of the dungeons I have ‘access’ to and each night I ended up doing something else.

Maybe if they buffed/nerfed everyone entering (ala spvp style) players would not feel the need to have only Lvl80 players to group for a dungeon.

Blueshield.6291:

While I understand the desire to complete grinding content as rapidly as possible, can anyone explain the total intolerance of these players? What does it say of the state of the game if the majority of dungeon-running players are adopting mindsets like this?

This isn’t about intolerance. While i accept unexperienced people into my groups because we all learnt how to play somewhere, its also true that somethimes experienced people just want a smooth run for various reasons whic can include:

We are short on time so we want to do the dungeon run ASAP.

We just had some run with unexperienced people and just want to have some fun without explaining everyting and relax.

Is our right to make fast runs with experienced and well geared players if we want. We had to struggle to reach this point so its right that somethimes we just want to open the game, jump in a experienced group and faceroll the dungeon.

It’s also true that somethimes people should accept at least 1 unexperienced player to teach him, even if it’s also true that "unexperienced players don’t really bother about reading a guide / watch a video of the dungeon before searching a group for it

Honestly, I’d rather run with unexperienced people than with so called experienced or even our great dungeon masters. You can still convience them to use better tactics instead of cheap ones and they don’t have so big ego.

So, if you have some leading capabilites and knowledge you’re not on lost position. But in case you haven’t done this particular dungeon, the good idea is to watch youtube/read wiki/guides and pretend to be experienced. After few runs you should have the general idea of what should be done (even if that means defying thoe sguies you read/watched guides).

The only place i tend to see this constently is for ARAH, and with good reason. rest of dung does not matter much. but if thats all there is wait 5min or make your own

Might I suggest getting in a good guild (UnrepentantGaming.com). AC runs all the time with the only requirement being you be of an appropriate level.

Wethospu.6437:

Don’t worry, these “experienced” people usually suck.

My thoughts exactly.

When I was a noob, I joined experienced groups, pretended I was experienced, mimicked what the other players did, and had no problem passing off as a pro. In time, I learned that their strategies were mostly inefficient, and how to greatly improve upon them. If you’re desperate for a group, beggars can’t be choosers, but I can’t find any reason to be that desperate for a group. Just wait 5 minutes and look again if it bugs you that much.

Watch youtube videos on the paths, don’t ask questions and follow the group, eventually you will become experienced without the risk of coming off as a complete “scrub.”

For AC or CoF, just join anyway and pretend to be experienced. What little there is to know, and it isn’t much, you’ll pick up just by following everyone’s lead. They are the two easiest dungeons.

If you want to be more comfortable, just watch videos of a few runs.

Maybe early on just avoid ones saying “speed run”. Other than that, it’ll be fine.

Alternately, remember there are other people wary of joining these groups too. Put up your own entry on gw2lfg.com. “Inexperienced player LFM AC exp, everyone welcome”. You’ll get more people like yourself, which is fine.

SteepledHat.1345:

Why are you not learning these dungeons within your guild? Best place for learning. Pugs just want to get in and out most of the time.

I can’t blame someone for being tired of teaching that 100th newbie the ropes, tbh. I’m weary of it myself.

This is a terrible attitude. I don’t mind adding a 5th to any group if only 4 of us are on at the time. I even post (purposely) that we have new folks with us even when we don’t. I have so many folks on my friends list that were added after we grouped them for a run. There’s a huge difference between being “experienced” and being “good”.

Because you have arrogant people that have zero patience, empathy, tolerance, and are too lazy to type. Even though I have the experience now, when I see that, it makes my stomach turn.

It’s what killed WoW and many other MMOs – selfish, cruel, and intolerant community. These fools forget that the game is about having fun. They are too wrapped up in themselves to have social skills, guildies to run with, or friends.

If they want “experienced only”, then they should run with their own guilds. See? That works both ways.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Oh and:

I’m looking at gw2lfg.com’s listings for AC Explore, and literally every LFM entry states either “speed run” or “experienced only!”

“LF3M AC Path 1&2. Alt Swappin at boss welcomed. Taking one lv 40. /join Nayix”

“LF3M AC all/any path(s)”

“lf1m, all paths, self join, not skipping kholer, so please be proficient at dodging”

“GLF 1m AC path 1”

“LF1M FOR P2 SELF INVITE”

These are the 5 most recent LFM posts on gw2lfg.com

Everytime someone says that I look it up on lfg.com and every single time they are completely full of kitten.

This is pretty true.

I’m not sure why so many people have such an inferiority complex. Every group I see on GW2lfg has been very nice and welcoming.

And quite the contrary to a number of posts, if you are inexperienced, DO ask questions! It’s better to have an inexperienced player who is willing to learn rather than an stubborn know-it-all.

There a many players like me who are happy to welcome newbies into their group and teach. Lemme know if you ever wanna do CoE EXP, and I’ll teach ya!

This isn’t a problem exclusive to this game. I’ve played a lot of MMO’s over the years and this issue has been in almost every one of them. “How are you supposed to get experience if you can’t join a group because they only allow experienced players?” the common solution to that seems to be to either start your own group or drag a bunch of friends into the dungeon.

In my experience though, just lying does the trick. For instance in WoW I made pretty extensive use of the fake achievement addon to join these “must have everything you need from the raid and know it inside out to join!” groups. In most cases you will be fine if you have half a brain. Now if you join one of these groups and act like a complete kitten or draw attention to the fact that you have no idea what you’re doing then yes, you will most likely be kicked.

The bigger problem in this game is class balance disallowing you to join groups simply because Warriors and Guardians bring so much more than any other class to the table. Heavy armor, probably the most damage in the game because enemies just stand in hundred blades all day, the most health, etc.

Form your own group, post what you are/want to do. If I have downtime I have no problem joining a group and even passing on strats. I see it as an investment in my peace of mind come later knowing that there is a better chance of grouping with people who know what to do. Especially in fractals.

Dont care about experience. I care about someone’s ability to listen. And their gear. Many times I take new people into arah and they do very well. All I ask is exotic gear ( not hard in this game) and to listen if you’re new.

I’ve just stopped telling people if i’m inexperienced,i normally read the wiki for whatever path before hand so i know what to expect

swiftpaw.6397:

Dont care about experience. I care about someone’s ability to listen. And their gear. Many times I take new people into arah and they do very well. All I ask is exotic gear ( not hard in this game) and to listen if you’re new.

+1 to this.

Ppl who have no idea what they are doing, like to think that they know what they are doing and REFUSE to listen, when they group tells them what to do or maybe to change and use the strategy that the team is applying. Another reason why ppl hate taking in inexperienced players.

Running dungeons wth inexperienced people CAN be a big problem. I am currently running Arah paths 1-3 and several times i have people coming in like “Well i just turned 80 and now i want to try out a dungeon”. Trouble is: Most PvE content up to there wasnt really challenging. Most classes can level in full berserker gear. Mobs die fast so survival isnt that important. So you get people at lvl 80 with full berserker gear very often seemingly unused to dodging attacks at all. Taking them along on a dungeon not only means that you have to explain tactics – which i am always fine with. The problem is when you have to make up for their inability to dodge in combination with berserker (or even better mf) gear. Being a support ele means that by rezzig a player from downed state the group is not only missing one dps but also my support. Which for a inexperienced group is usually necessary (Dont get me wrong. If someone gets seriously focused in this game, all suppport in the world wont help him stay alive. No burst healers here. Healing is basically the act of rezzing from downed state so everyones a healer. Though with decent support you can at least help players avoid a part of the dmg . /rant end) But i have to rezz them cause i cant rely on the others to pay attention to their health bar AND those of their teammates.

Now mind me, i am writing this with my recent arah runs in my mind. I will still keep taking inexperienced players with me there, simply because i know how annoying it is to be told “experienced only”. But to ask for “experienced only” in places like AC is really ridiculous. Explaining the strategy to destroy burrows takes you about what ? 20 secs ? And then its all about dps. To make it even easier you can avoid Kohler completely. Instead of asking for “experienced only” people should say: Requirement is to find your dodge key on your keyboard and not run glass cannon armor if you have never ran a dungeon before. At least most inexperienced players tend to listen to advice cause they value the fact you take them along and dont want to make mistakes.
To those i say: Inform yourself before you run the dungeon. Being prepared for what you are going to face is important (lupicus-grubs-necromancer traits-urgh). Bring time. You know you are new to this so dont expect to be as fast as experienced groups.

Oh and about experienced players: On my fist run of Arah path 1 i looked the tar boss up on wiki and told the group (all experienced players) after we wiped: “It says we need to keep him burning so he doesnt spawn adds”. That was quite some news to them. :-)

tl;dr “Pros” : Dont be lazy, occasionally take along inexperienced players. Even if its just to show how “awesome” you are. You werent born experienced either.
“Newbies”: If someone takes you along, try to make it as easy as possible for him. Inform yourself about the dungeon and listen to what you are told. Bring time and survivability/survive abilities ;-).

Experienced only, avoid those pugs like hell, i usually post something on these grounds.

All classes are welcome, know what are you doing or ask what to do on the dungeons.

Remember the first arah story i cleared… 5 lost ppl with the me reading the wiki xD was quite good with no wipes at all.

In a previous MMO I played “experienced people only” or, “must have X gear” I always payed close attention to that person.
With only few exceptions, those people were just plain bad/had no experience in there themselves, and didn’t meet the gear requirements they set for the rest…

I’d say, just ask to join, if they ask if you have experience… “yes.” Then just stick close to the rest and pay attention. Within no-time you’ll be experienced…

My way if I don’t know a dungeon yet, I go in, do some hammer time, die a few times and finish it. You will learn it down the road ^^. I don’t see what people complaining about. And if someone says i don’t know this yet, I just tell them stay out the bad stuff, stay alive and at certain encounters 1 or 2 things more and it just goes fine. Best way to learn stuff in gw2 is just to do it. Every needs to do that, only those people who tend to call themselves pro’s (I always read idiots because I think being pro is impossible since that implies you don’t make mistakes and everyone makes mistakes, only those “pro’s” tend to blame other people for their own mistakes) tend for forget in most cases they did start themselves also that way and that they also had to learn it.

And to be honest personally I dislikes those groups because they tend to attract jerks and I play a game to have fun. And in the end dieing a few time with social players is more fun as just rush to the end with a deadly silence in the chat until the flaming starts