Guild Wars 2

So I’ve done a few explorables with my group of friends as level 80’s and while we may not be speed runners, we do okay and generally keep on our feet. Last night we tried doing AC explorable with come characters in the 50-60 range with a mix of blues and greens as armor and weapons and we found we could not do enough damage on the burrows fast enough to keep ahead and finally quit (path 1). The explorable dungeon is labeled for lvl 35, but it seems to me it’s really balanced around lvl 80’s in exotics. So despite what the dungeons are labeled is it safe to say that all explorables should just be done with 80’s? Or are we just really incompetent?

Basically, it’s only for 80’s. Though a lower level could get carried through by 3-4 level 80’s.

Nialiss.6459:

Basically, it’s only for 80’s. Though a lower level could get carried through by 3-4 level 80’s.

Is this ANet’s official stance? Because most EXP modes are labeled for only 5 levels above Story modes. Should these not be able to be completed by those lower level players?

Yes, I think they are only for lvl 80’s, Anet need to change this…

Had to give up on a dungeon run recently because we didn’t have enough dps to kill final boss, I was 80 and there was 1 other 80 then it was a 44 and 2×35′s. It was a AC exp dungeon path, can’t remember which one exactly…

I have had no problems with doing them with full groups in the 50-60 range, however, I have noticed that team composition and coordination are much more valuable when running lower leveled toons, where as 80s can make up for it with flat out damage.

Strange I just finished my 6th 80 leveled since 35 with only dungeons, I mean it.

Learn to play people…

I believe it’s all about level-appropriate gear(masterwork at least!) and knowledge of dungeon.

I did AC exp with 5 lvl 80, but we failed 2 times at burrows, because most of them didn’t know what to do. If i had the choice to swap them for a lvl 40-60 that knows how it works, i would do it without a second thought.

I’m saying it just depends on your party members and not just on there lvls, but i must admit that i want to see a full party of lvl 35 completing AC.

I remember doing ac p1 successfully, as a group of 35-38 players. Yet just today I’ve attempted an AC run with pugs (apparently they were wearing toughness/vitality/magic find armor, while using bunker builds) – I just had to excuse myself and quit, because it was taking way too long, and scrap a run consisting of quality-players in my friend list(Im sure I finished all 3 paths faster than they did 1 path).
Every encounter in this game has to be approached from a strategic point of view.
As you have stated – you have lacked dps, solution would’ve been to bring builds that deal more dps.
Do not tie this problem to the level issue, but to the quality of the players in your party. Solution to this problem is being discussed in a neighbor thread, but it will take a while to implement, since your casual colleagues are strongly opposing the player quality control mechanisms such as an “gear inspect” option.

Gear inspection is terrible. The only benefit to that is kicking people with worse gear than you want. The game isn’t about you. Find like minded people and leave the “normal” (not “casual”) people alone. Elitists try to ruin everything for people just to seem cool.

Burrows are probably one of those thing where charcater levels isn’t too relevant.
As far as I know objects cannot be critted, so power becomes the only meaningful stat and low lvls are much less handycapped when using 2-stat gear as far as they stack it.
There’ll still be an obvious DPS loss because those characters are missing trait points and cannot wear exotics (probably they are not using even rares), but as long as they are in updated greens and stacking power, the DPS should be more than enough.

Well it turns out while I was using on level greens and one party member was wearing on level rares, some of the others had some gear as much as 20 levels lower than their current level. So I think it was in part, characters we had all played a lot less and were less effective, and a gear problem. We did it no problem with our mains today, lvl 80 with exotics. So there were definitely problems with the yesterday’s run and a gear check would probably actually have helped this situation.

Time Glitch.2460:

Nialiss.6459:

Basically, it’s only for 80’s. Though a lower level could get carried through by 3-4 level 80’s.

Is this ANet’s official stance? Because most EXP modes are labeled for only 5 levels above Story modes. Should these not be able to be completed by those lower level players?

It’s not their official stance but rather the reality of the situation. Most exp runs can’t be done by non-80s unless they are carried by other lvl 80s with good gear and skill.

Explorers are not just for 80s. I’ll admit it doesn’t hurt to have the extra traits and slot skills. If a character’s level is higher than the effective level of a dungeon, the character will be scaled down to the appropriate effective level of the dungeon. Yes you still have the advantage of trait and utilities, but your stats are dropped. I think there are too many people with the mentality as it is that they are designed for 80. Hence all the elitest group forming. They are tough for anyone to learn the fights. Even the trash mobs have mechanics to learn and work around. We all are faced with the trouble to overcome: when to use stability, aegis, protection, projectile blocks, crowd controls, dodge (probably the most important ability for survival). Sometimes it is not optimal to revive someone who has 3 mobs on them with knock downs with the normal run-up and revive ability without taking further precautions, I love my Thief for this since he can stealth and revive, even that can go wrong if I am stealthed and reviving and someone not stealthed pulls mobs over and tries to help and that set of mobs had aoe splash that will hurt my chances to survive while I revive someone. I really enjoy doing the dungeons at level with friends or pugs. I try to help anyone new learn what they can with the encounters. Stay out of the fire and bring the right set up to each fight and things get easier, that takes time to learn. I have been in plenty explorers where I was the only one at level, most to all others 80 and I spend more time reviving them than I get to fighting. Heh, you know, I wouldn’t mind seeing 80s carry me rather than the other way around!

Jabiacas Horologium.4976:

Explorers are not just for 80s. I’ll admit it doesn’t hurt to have the extra traits and slot skills. If a character’s level is higher than the effective level of a dungeon, the character will be scaled down to the appropriate effective level of the dungeon. Yes you still have the advantage of trait and utilities, but your stats are dropped.

The thing is most lvl 80s nowadays have full exotics with maybe even runes and sigils, and even when scaled down they still have a huge advantage over say a lvl 45 scaled down to whatever the lvl of the dungeon is.

There’s also the lack of class skills if you are too low lvl as well as stats from traits. A lvl 45 will most likely not have their elite or their final build skills all learned and will have far less stats from traits compared to a lvl 80 even when both have their stats scaled down.

Then finally it comes down to experience. Most people with enough experience knows not to bring a low lvl into an exp dungeon unless they are swapping in before the boss or if it’s a very easy exp path.(CM not classified as very easy in my book) So the only times I see people that are low lvl in exp paths it’s because they don’t know better.

It’s a learn to play issue.

Most people I get in PUGs who are 80 are being carried, obviously they would not be skilled enough to defeat a dungeon if they weren’t 80.

Me and steady dungeon party did all the dungeon paths a month or so after release. We weren’t lvl 80, we had no tactics, we weren’t even properly geared for the most part. We still managed to do it just fine.

Dungeons can be played fine at lower levels just less ‘efficient’ (though that’s debatable since plenty of lvl 80’s are terrible at dungeons). So the problem isn’t that it can’t be done it’s just people only care about speedruns, exploits and their precious money per hour gain ‘how much content can we skip!’ over the actual enjoyment of the content itself.

DeathPanel.8362:

Jabiacas Horologium.4976:

Explorers are not just for 80s. I’ll admit it doesn’t hurt to have the extra traits and slot skills. If a character’s level is higher than the effective level of a dungeon, the character will be scaled down to the appropriate effective level of the dungeon. Yes you still have the advantage of trait and utilities, but your stats are dropped.

The thing is most lvl 80s nowadays have full exotics with maybe even runes and sigils, and even when scaled down they still have a huge advantage over say a lvl 45 scaled down to whatever the lvl of the dungeon is.

There’s also the lack of class skills if you are too low lvl as well as stats from traits. A lvl 45 will most likely not have their elite or their final build skills all learned and will have far less stats from traits compared to a lvl 80 even when both have their stats scaled down.

Then finally it comes down to experience. Most people with enough experience knows not to bring a low lvl into an exp dungeon unless they are swapping in before the boss or if it’s a very easy exp path.(CM not classified as very easy in my book) So the only times I see people that are low lvl in exp paths it’s because they don’t know better.

Yes, there are advantages, I did agree, though I did not list all of them. However, the fact stands that the dungeons are not all and only 80 content. What I see it coming down to in the end is a learning curve, one that is very possible. People don’t just bring low levels (also known as doing a dungeon at level) because they do not know better. A lot of people bring them because it is fun, and they may enjoy a challenge, while others do not and want it to be free give aways. This promotes the 80 only elitest attitude, I suppose that is fine for people who are scared of the content, and short on patients. After all the vendors sell 2 levels of gear, at level and 80. Do what you want, but while people call out in map for level 80s only, I am gonna be calling out for anyone who wants to play, willing to help learn if needed.

The point of coming here was to answer a question. Explorable dungeons for 80’s only? the answer flat out is NO.

Jabiacas Horologium.4976:

DeathPanel.8362:

Jabiacas Horologium.4976:

Explorers are not just for 80s. I’ll admit it doesn’t hurt to have the extra traits and slot skills. If a character’s level is higher than the effective level of a dungeon, the character will be scaled down to the appropriate effective level of the dungeon. Yes you still have the advantage of trait and utilities, but your stats are dropped.

The thing is most lvl 80s nowadays have full exotics with maybe even runes and sigils, and even when scaled down they still have a huge advantage over say a lvl 45 scaled down to whatever the lvl of the dungeon is.

There’s also the lack of class skills if you are too low lvl as well as stats from traits. A lvl 45 will most likely not have their elite or their final build skills all learned and will have far less stats from traits compared to a lvl 80 even when both have their stats scaled down.

Then finally it comes down to experience. Most people with enough experience knows not to bring a low lvl into an exp dungeon unless they are swapping in before the boss or if it’s a very easy exp path.(CM not classified as very easy in my book) So the only times I see people that are low lvl in exp paths it’s because they don’t know better.

Yes, there are advantages, I did agree, though I did not list all of them. However, the fact stands that the dungeons are not all and only 80 content. What I see it coming down to in the end is a learning curve, one that is very possible. People don’t just bring low levels (also known as doing a dungeon at level) because they do not know better. A lot of people bring them because it is fun, and they may enjoy a challenge, while others do not and want it to be free give aways. This promotes the 80 only elitest attitude, I suppose that is fine for people who are scared of the content, and short on patients. After all the vendors sell 2 levels of gear, at level and 80. Do what you want, but while people call out in map for level 80s only, I am gonna be calling out for anyone who wants to play, willing to help learn if needed.

The point of coming here was to answer a question. Explorable dungeons for 80’s only? the answer flat out is NO.

It’s not a matter of sub 80s not being able to do something.

It’s the extra work and time it is as well as the extra potential to fail.

Sorry but once you’ve ran all the dungeons in hundreds of runs like I have dungeons are NOT fun. It’s tedious, repetitive busy work.

I just want to get it over with and get my tokens.

It’s not really about lvl, i think is more about how you play and your team.

They’re harder, certainly doable sub 80 though.

When the game was new there was spam in plains of ashford “LFM AC exp” and anyone that was 35+ was being taken. Sometimes it’d be completed sometimes not.

I frequently run AC sub-level 80. AC and TA, once you know the encounters, are pretty easy for a chara to run at-level.

I am also firmly against the ‘you must be 80’ attitude. I find it to be elitist and shunning of potentially perfectly good players. If you want your speed-runs to be 80 only, that is find. But saying that all players need be 80 for dungeons is false.

On Dragonbrand, I’m usually finding lots of people asking for AC exp mode, and (with the exception of p3) not usually finding too many troubles. My guild [CASH] did an all guild run 2 days ago, with only one above lvl 50 (he was 80). We did die more than I’d like, but it wasn’t frustrating either. (I’ve had more trouble when I was the only non-80)

In short, it really comes down to skill rather than being 80, and, while gear/level/traits really do help, IMO skill is the major factor here. Level 80 chars tend to be more experienced at dodging/understanding fight mechanics, and tend to do better. But IMHO, there is roughly the same amount of noobie lvl80s as lvl35s

When the game was still pretty new, I did AC path 1 with everyone in the levels range 30-55 (yes, a level 30-34 can do AC explorable even though the game lists the level requirement as 35 as long as someone else who can enter goes in first.) And though it wasn’t as easy as we expected coming in, it was doable.

After last update I seen that “silver” monsters too hard to kill, much more difficult. They deal damage too high, in AC for example, in TA too. Bosses much more easy than “silver” monsters…

It has nothing to do about elitism that people require members to be level 80. It’s the fact that you’re missing so many stat points and traits that make you weaker if you’re below level 80. There’s also the issue that people tend to slack on equipping appropriate leveled gear when they level. Skill doesn’t matter when underleveled people are dying constantly.

EVERY group that I’m in where there’s more than one person under 70 has failed. Doing AC is very difficult now because groups keep failing over and over on the mounds and I find myself doing most of the damage.

Aside from having a decent level, people need to research how to do a dungeon. I did that for every new dungeon I was about to do so there’s no reason others can’t. It’ll save everyone time in the future.

Ayrilana.1396:

It has nothing to do about elitism that people require members to be level 80. It’s the fact that you’re missing so many stat points and traits that make you weaker if you’re below level 80. There’s also the issue that people tend to slack on equipping appropriate leveled gear when they level. Skill doesn’t matter when underleveled people are dying constantly.

EVERY group that I’m in where there’s more than one person under 70 has failed. Doing AC is very difficult now because groups keep failing over and over on the mounds and I find myself doing most of the damage.

Aside from having a decent level, people need to research how to do a dungeon. I did that for every new dungeon I was about to do so there’s no reason others can’t. It’ll save everyone time in the future.

Requiring an 80 when the suggested is only 35 does carry some elitist connotations. Yes, 80s are faster. But decent 35s can still do quite well. No, they will not do for speed runs. So long as you don’t mind an additional few minutes, though, it is quite doable. Even with low level inexperienced players, I’ve not failed or taken long periods of time in AC in a long time.

I, personally, make sure there is an ele in the party in AC for the mounds. If noone else runs one, I switch to my ele just for Ice Bow.

decent players on level who actually know their class can make do with any dungeon under 80 as long as the composition isnt too terrible like 2 rangers 2 engi 1 necro. being 80 though makes a significant enough difference, exotic gear is just icing on the cake.

kinda wish they just followed what other mmo’s mostly do, that is story mode dungeons for the character as they level up, then at level cap all the “expert” modes.

Four-manned AC path 1 on my level 80 guardian, had two below 50 necromancers and a 65ish engineer. Why 4-man it? Because people would quit when they saw the levels of the other people in the party. And we grew tired of this.

We managed to gather all the scepter pieces before a guildie logged on and joined us. Only place we failed at first, was at burrows and this was due to some people not knowing what to do. Second attempt, we nailed it, too.

Yes, I went guardian to help carry them. But still proves that you don’t need 3-4 80s to do explorable mode.

Regarding burrows, there are some tactics that help out there. What we did: I held the mobs that came from the middle burrow, while the rest of the party smacked down the burrows in order. We didn’t skip anything.

If you have atleast one carry in your party, then AC and all other lowlevel dungeons are a faceroll with whatever party levels. Haven’t noticed that big of a difference in time taken&success between lvl 80’s or min req lvld players. Aslong as they are familiar with the dungeon or listen to advice, then there won’t be a problem. There is a difference in time spent ofc, but that is similar to for example dps heavy vs all tank build parties. If you’re excluding below lvl 80s and want to be most efficient aka “speedrunner”, you should also exclude it to 1 support per party to not to be a hypocrite. Tough luck if they already have a tankier/support spec beside you.

As a sidenote, my LFM usually consist of words “no prof&lvl preference”, I’m confident in my abilities and I don’t need to be carried.

@Meglobob: What do you mean you lacked dps to kill last boss? The encounters aren’t in any way timed.

No, you don’t need single level 80 in group to finish any sub lvl 80 explo. Only thing the number of lvl 80s in group will affect is time needed to finish.

As to the AC: I’d say wrong group composition, lazy people not willing to buy few cheap greens (or yellow for that matter) on auction every now and then (when I level up alt, I refresh greens every 5 levels (it’s like 15s for everything).

i would take experienced 35lvl over 80lvl beginner to AC anyday. and we would have a lot epic time together killing all the things!

Ehm… Many people finished AC explorable after having just hit level 35 on the week after release. They were in blue / green gear and had no clue how dungeons worked in GW2, let alone how to play the game properly.

So yeah, it’s a L2P issue.

Full exotics just makes you able to ignore some mechanics, doesn’t mean you can’t do an explorable at the min level – just requires more thought, work and communication.

I did AC3 on my main when he was like lvl 62. I was in a guild group with some 80s, had rare weapons and decent 3 stat armor (lvl 60 zerker/knight mix). I think we finished it in like an hour-hour 20 min and didn’t fail anything or wipe. It was a very hard adjustment on the lieutenant for me coming from WoW, but I think on the next run I will do fine. I didn’t feel like my stats made a huge difference, it was more not knowing the animations to dodge very well yet. I think it was fun and I look forward to doing it more. Honestly 2 ppl in the group were first timers, we got downed as individuals a fair amount, but we were quick to rez and get on our feet and it wasn’t too bad.

The sad thing about all of this is I did AC explorable path 2 the first week of the game, with our highest level in the group being a 48, and the rest of the being between 34-36. Now, it may have taken us 7 times to beat Kohler [note this is the first week of the game before the troll trick or people knew to just skip him], and it took us a little bit to do the cannon fights, it was pretty easy in the long run. So no, you don’t even NEED to know how to do the dungeon, just know how to play and learn from your mistakes if something goes wrong. That is all.

The problem has to do with itemization and the amount of traits. At lvl 80 you have a huge amount of itemization available to you and having that extra 30-50 traits makes a BIG difference on your strength in the dungeons.

The dungeons are do-able at the lvls listed, but it’s significantly more difficult than at 80. Like I did AC EM when I was lvl 35~ when the game came out and it was extremely difficult and I died maybe 6 times my first time, but then I did it at 80 and it was faceroll easy.