Guild Wars 2

If you use DPS meters, you are probably already aware. I’m posting this for the few that might not have heard.

The developer of BGDM is no longer playing the game, so the tool won’t be adjusted for any future updates (unless one of the people to whom he’s given the code takes it on).

Details: https://redd.it/6txv55

PS please don’t turn this into a referendum on DPS meters, the people who code them, the people who use them, or the people who don’t — it’s simply a heads up for users and potential users.

If you do want to discuss those things, the gw2 subreddit is a great option.

i hope someone takes over bgdm and develops it with compliance, bgdm is so much better than arc. stylish, user friendly and just generally more intuitive.

This is why we can’t have nice things (from 3rd parties).

It would be nice if Anet in their infinite generosity developed an in client opt-in system for raids.

Pity, I’m going to miss BGDM. Oh well, time to move to arcdps.

Does not Arcdps let you check the gear that other players are using and such? I’m asking this since the statement from Chris Cleary was the following.

“We have no problems with players using a 3rd party tool whose scope is only to collect and visualize combat data gathered directly from the game client. Anything beyond that scope is still considered a violation of the User Agreement.”

Do we have any official statement on arcdps being “safe” to use due to NOT breaking the ToS?

I think the non-TOS-compliant things got remove from arcdps as it seems but I’m not 100% sure. Anyway, I can’t find the gearcheck version on the site and in addition to that the build template possibility also isn’t available any longer.
So, for me personally it looks like that arcdps is TOS-compliant at the moment.

Bgdm wont be suported any more. The creator got perma banned

Vinceman.4572:

I think the non-TOS-compliant things got remove from arcdps as it seems but I’m not 100% sure. Anyway, I can’t find the gearcheck version on the site and in addition to that the build template possibility also isn’t available any longer.
So, for me personally it looks like that arcdps is TOS-compliant at the moment.

I believe arcdps had the non TOS compliant features removed and made into standalone plugins and buried them in their site where you can’t download them without hitting several messages saying they aren’t compliant. Even then I think many of those aspects land in the grey area rather than straight up breaking TOS like BGDM did with its non compliant version.

They got rid of the non-compliant stuff because of the ban.
https://www.deltaconnected.com/arcdps/x64/RESTRICTED-qol/README.txt

Reading through the reddit thread, this guy is ridiculous lol. He’s given a chance by the devs to make his tool compliant and instead he makes compliant and non-compliant versions and calls the latter the Chinese version because Anet didn’t specifically say their rules applied to the Chinese client. But this “Chinese” version worked on NA/EU clients.

Why did Anet even open this can of worms? If they aren’t willing/have no time to develop it the way they want themselves, don’t allow it done at all. DPS meters are great but quickly become a sausagefest without any supervision.

maxwelgm.4315:

Why did Anet even open this can of worms? If they aren’t willing/have no time to develop it the way they want themselves, don’t allow it done at all. DPS meters are great but quickly become a sausagefest without any supervision.

TBH I fail to see a problem on their side. They specifically said what is considered OK (and frankly, it’s just common sense). And the meters have been around and working for months without the situation deteriorating as predicted by the naysayers. Really, if the gearchecks got removed in a timely manner, there wouldn’t be a problem for anyone.

People trying to push the envelope a little further and further.

I tell everyone I know that uses one to use at their own risk and not to expect sympathy for an account ban due to third party program.

I have a friend be banned permanently just recently, claiming the only thing he had was arcDPS.

arcdps used to have gear inspection modules too.

Arcadio.6875:

They got rid of the non-compliant stuff because of the ban.
https://www.deltaconnected.com/arcdps/x64/RESTRICTED-qol/README.txt

Reading through the reddit thread, this guy is ridiculous lol. He’s given a chance by the devs to make his tool compliant and instead he makes compliant and non-compliant versions and calls the latter the Chinese version because Anet didn’t specifically say their rules applied to the Chinese client. But this “Chinese” version worked on NA/EU clients.

Yea, he came off as trying to gather sympathy for deliberately breaking the ToS repeatedly, despite being told to stop by ANet. I don’t feel sorry for him.

Arahzor.1832:

Do we have any official statement on arcdps being “safe” to use due to NOT breaking the ToS?

We’ll never get such a statement, because ANet can’t be responsible for ensuring every iteration of a tool. You can visit the arcdps site to find out what the developer has done to remain compatible and judge for yourself if it’s compatible with the rules.

As for using a non-compliant meter: When ANet approached the developer of BGDM to remove certain features, they specifically said that they wouldn’t hold the software’s users responsible for any failings of the code.

Since DPS meters tend to break each patch (without an update by the 3rd party coder), this is probably a sufficient safety net for any of us who want to use them. That is, if the DSP meter author screws up, we don’t have to worry. Either the code gets fixed to be compliant (so we’re good) or the code stops working (which protects us in the most trivial way: we can’t use it, so we can’t break ToS).

It’d be cool if Anet took PoF as the opportunity to just make dps meters a feature in the game (at least being able to see your personal dps like you can in the training room.)

They have the technology, literally, already in the game… Their biggest hold back on not having dps meters for so long was that it promotes a “toxic environment,” but that all went out the window months ago when they said using 3rd party meters no longer violated the ToS anyways.

So, yeah, plz anet, just put them in the game so they can be done right.

narcx.3570:

It’d be cool if Anet took PoF as the opportunity to just make dps meters a feature in the game (at least being able to see your personal dps like you can in the training room.)

They have the technology, literally, already in the game… Their biggest hold back on not having dps meters for so long was that it promotes a “toxic environment,” but that all went out the window months ago when they said using 3rd party meters no longer violated the ToS anyways.

So, yeah, plz anet, just put them in the game so they can be done right.

Yep literally this. As far as we’re all aware they have the tech, just not a decent UI for it.

While we’re at features that we’d all like Build Templates/Template chat codes, we’re going to the desert it’s time to find this long lost feature in that sand somewhere.

narcx.3570:

It’d be cool if Anet took PoF as the opportunity to just make dps meters a feature in the game (at least being able to see your personal dps like you can in the training room.)

They have the technology, literally, already in the game… Their biggest hold back on not having dps meters for so long was that it promotes a “toxic environment,” but that all went out the window months ago when they said using 3rd party meters no longer violated the ToS anyways.

So, yeah, plz anet, just put them in the game so they can be done right.

That would be cool, however I’m a little skeptic about it happening. The thing is, players have a better idea of what is needed in such tool. Stuff like which skill contributes to how much of your dps, how many skills did you interrupt, etc. As a developer, it is not easy to think about all this. So in order for such feature to be done right, ANet will need to support it, listen to player requests, filter out the reasonable ones and implement them. It is possible. But I find it somewhat unlikely. It’s a lot of effort to essentially duplicate what players already have using 3rd party tools.

That being said, ANet, plz prove me wrong.

Eh i like the guy and his meter. But simply ignoring th warning from chris didnt do him any good. Oh well rip.

I agree with Feanor. If ANet ever implemented a dps meter, I’m pretty confident it would be useless.

We just can’t have nice things. Going to miss the tool.
I am interested to see whether anyone is going to pick it up and continue the work in earnest given the leaked code and also about the number of infected versions that will pop up now.

Henry.5713:

We just can’t have nice things. Going to miss the tool.
I am interested to see whether anyone is going to pick it up and continue the work in earnest given the leaked code and also about the number of infected versions that will pop up now.

You can be sure that in such a case there will be forthcoming bans. And not only against possible new creators, but also users of those clearly noncompliant versions.

Remember, that the Anet’s statement about how they will blame the creator, not the users and that using the program was not a bannable offense was sent with an addendum “for the moment”, and made before Anet decided on ban. In short, they aren’t going to ban the users that might have been operating under assumption that using BGDM was okay (even if some of them were clearly aware that one version breaks ToS). They didn’t say they won’t start banning users of a tool that got clearly marked as noncompliant however.

Just saw that the source code got published and linked on the BGDM blogpage. Maybe someone will pick it up and make a new ToS compliant version of it. We can only hope.

Anyone picking up the work will not be stupid enough to openly give away their game account name if they intended to keep breaking the ToS.
Besides, it is up to ArenaNet in the end. They could have gone ahead and ban everyone who has or is currently using the non compliant version. They most likely considered it and decided the loss of revenue a ban of hundreds if not thousands of players is not worth it. That might change of course.

I was actually talking about the ToS compliant version and whether someone might keep up the good work there. It was a tool made by a community member fully aware of our needs and wishes. There are also features that make us ask ourselves why we do not see them as actual game options, let alone have them being illegal.
Just one example are the floating bars. He saw the need for floating health bars many of the healers have been asking for while the game developers did not. We still couldn’t use it in the end of course, as it ended up in the non compliant version.
However, it is a good example of why people doubt to see damage meters done well if they will ever be added to the game.

so now arenanet will put in the game hp allies bars in fractal like raid, right? right?