Guild Wars 2

Note to the moderators: this thread relates to a raid reward for wing 3. As such, it belongs here, and not somewhere else. Please don’t move it.

The concept of the White Mantle Portal Device is great—an alternative, reusable, portal item replacing teleportation guns (consumable, open world only) and watchwork portal devices (consumable, works in dungeons/fractals). On concept alone, it’s an extremely cool raid reward.

However, the execution of the item is less than stellar. Given the high cost of the item, I actually regret buying it. I’d first like to compare it to Watchwork Portal Devices.

Both unequip if hit. The White Mantle Device can be equipped in combat, whereas the Watchwork Device cannot. The White Mantle Device has a 30 minute cooldown (can be reduced by 27 minutes with Adrenal Mushrooms), whereas the Watchwork Device has a 90 second cooldown. Both set Mesmer portal cooldown to 35 seconds (can be used to reduce portal cooldown… clearly, not a lot of thought went into this initially for Watchwork Devices, and this was just copied over for the White Mantle Device).

The White Mantle Portal Device is worth a gold-equivalent (using +5 Power Ghostly Infusion as a value reference) of 453 gold. A player can make 105 Watchwork Portal Devices for this price. Sans cheesing the cooldown with Adrenal Mushrooms, that means a player would need to play for at least 52.5 hours (assuming they use the WM device on cooldown) to get the same value out of the White Mantle Device that they would out of Watchwork Devices.

Basically, I’d suggest that Watchwork Portal Devices have better value than the White Mantle Portal Device. Especially given that you can make them slowly, and use the remaining gold (assuming you’re making them with gold obtained from selling a +5 Power Ghostly Infusion) to profit on the TP. And it should be noted, no one uses Watchwork Portal Devices because of their unquestionably terrible value, so it’s pretty bad if they have better (or even similar) value/perceived value to the White Mantle Portal Device.

In order to make the White Mantle Portal Device feel worthwhile and useful, here are my suggestions:

1) Reduce the cooldown to 5 minutes. 30 minutes is far too long for the item to be and feel useful. I would imagine that most of us buying this item are raiders (duh!), and plan to use it to help people out within other instanced content (dungeons and fractals), but the 30 minute cooldown is extremely prohibitive to this purpose (unless we go find a adrenal mushroom between every dungeon and fractal… or two adrenal mushrooms, which is an annoying and silly workaround).

2) Remove the unequip on hit from the White Mantle Portal Device. Half of the use of this for me is to help people get past skips in dungeons, which they can’t get past on their own, without swapping to a Mesmer (or without putting portal on your bar as a Mesmer, when you really want different skills without waiting for the CD because your party was inexperienced). The unequip on hit, along with it replacing weapon skills, makes it a lot less useful for this purpose.

3) Allow us to uneqip the White Mantle Portal Device after an entrance portal is placed, and then re-equip it later on to place an exit portal (within the 60s window for placing an exit portal, of course). If no exit portal is placed after 60s, do not put the portal entrance skill on cooldown.

And of course, in order to prevent unintended behavior, have it works as follows with respect to Mesmer portals: if portal CD > 35 seconds, do nothing; else, set Mesmer portal CD = 35 seconds. Might as well copy this change to the Watchwork Portal Devices as well.

The White Mantle Portal Device is a awesome item! but it has a 30 minutes cooldown, would be great if ArenaNet could lower it to, for example:

5 minutes: so i can use at least once on each FoTm daily
10 minutes: so i can use at least once every 2 FoTm dailys, or once every SW vinewrath, or once for each HoT Meta

I believe 30 minutes cooldown is SO MUCH thats instead of a useful utility you can use, you actually starts avoiding using it, and trying to keep it for a ultimate O kitten moment that actually never happens.

Mesmers around the world disagree with you…

No.

Taegos.4132:

Mesmers around the world disagree with you…

No.

Chrono is my main, people dont bring chrono for portal anymore, people bring chronos for perma quickness and alacrity, portal is just a bonus.

and with 10 minutes CD on portal, if you >NEED< a portal, you will still take a Chrono.

Purchased item should never be competitive against player abilities. So no.

harold.3526:

Taegos.4132:

Mesmers around the world disagree with you…

No.

Chrono is my main, people dont bring chrono for portal anymore, people bring chronos for perma quickness and alacrity, portal is just a bonus.

and with 10 minutes CD on portal, if you >NEED< a portal, you will still take a Chrono.

I know plenty of folks who grab mesmers for learning runs/speed clears, use them on metas and in particular HoT HP runs. They grab them for the portals in case new folks dont have gliding skills and or cant perform jumps needed. So again no, a toy available to everyone should not be any where near the same potency to that of a classes own unique skill.

Taegos.4132:

Mesmers around the world disagree with you…

No.

I love mesmer and would be psyched for a lower cool down.

The watchwork portal device is already in the game and has a 90 second cooldown. It’s just really expensive.

You don’t generally bring mesmer for portal. When you do, like for jumping puzzles, mesmer would still have a much lower cool down.

It’s not like we’re talking pvp or wvw here, where portal can provide combat advantages.

I know it’s an annoying work around, but you can reset the CD if you use “Reset my cooldowns” twice in the DPS arena.

Does it work in wvw?

Why are people so adverse about lowering this item’s cooldown? Are they afraid of it replacing their main class? Because I have yet to see it giving out long duration AoE reflects, invulnerabilities and boons as well as some of the most potent CC in the game.

The last thing I think about when playing mesmer is that I need to use that portal as much as possible, so this seems more like a case of people wanting to keep their special snowflake status at the expense of keeping an expensive raid item as useless as possible, to the point of needing to be absolutely afraid of messing up your portal placement.

Think of it this way:

How would you feel if one of your class defining abilities gets handed out to every one else?

Now consder this:

How would you feel if your class is by far the lowest dps class and it’s only redeeming quality is utility which now gets reduced by even more since one of its defining skills gets handed out to everyone?

It’s true that under normal circumstances Mesmer portal is not used or needed except for speedruns, helping friends, abusing AI, etc. How does that devalue the skill as class defining ability? As is, Mesmer in pve have it hard enough in that they serve as quickness/alacrity bots. No reason to take even more fluff away.

The portal device is a nice item. It allows for a very powerful ability to be used by every class. There is no reason to lower its cooldown. If you need portals on more frequent cooldowns, roll a Mesmer and do whatever you planed on doing with that class. If you can’t do what ever you planed doing due to Mesmer limitations, well then you have an answer as to why the cooldown should not get reduced.

My current class is already 2nd lowest dps and other players can already get pets via consumables Mesmer wouldn’t lose anything for raids if they lowered the cd. They would actually profit from it in other content as it means they can keep wells/reflects instead of wasting a slot on portal.
30minute cd is simply crap, id rather waste shards on asc trinkets just because they have different icons than spending them on a 30minute cd item. Or you know, get 400 gold instead.

Erzian.5218:

My current class is already 2nd lowest dps and other players can already get pets via consumables Mesmer wouldn’t lose anything for raids if they lowered the cd. They would actually profit from it in other content as it means they can keep wells/reflects instead of wasting a slot on portal.
30minute cd is simply crap, id rather waste shards on asc trinkets just because they have different icons than spending them on a 30minute cd item. Or you know, get 400 gold instead.

Because it’s toy and never intended to be something else.

The 30min cooldown is really making me regret buying it, just today i wanted to use it in both thaumanova and uncategorized fractal but the cooldown just was to high :-/

All my mesmers says no. A toy is just a toy, and never should be more than that.

Rednik.3809:

All my mesmers says no. A toy is just a toy, and never should be more than that.

It has no effect on mesmers if it has a cooldown greater than most elite skills in the game.

5 minutes accomplishes this.

TexZero.7910:

It has no effect on mesmers if it has a cooldown greater than most elite skills in the game.

5 minutes accomplishes this.

It’s still too close to mesmer, especially for unique class mechanic. Basically, he is asking for pocket mesmer, which is unacceptable. Though, I guess it’s possible to buff one aspect of this toy while nerfing other. Want 1/6 of original CD? Make max portal radius 1/6 too.

Rednik.3809:

All my mesmers says no. A toy is just a toy, and never should be more than that.

It’s a raid reward that costs 1000 Magnetite Shards (10 weeks of shard-capped raiding), and with an equivalent value to 453 gold. If it were to cost a mere 100 shards, I’d agree with you.

Comparing it to an actual “toy”, the Executioner’s Axe Toy, which costs just under 222 gold at current gold:gem exchange rates, the WM Portal Device value is quite bad. The Executioner’s Axe Toy offers an incredible movement speed buff on a very short cooldown. For less than half the price of the White Mantle Portal Device. Oh, and you get a very cool outfit with the Executioner’s Axe Toy, too. Oh, and you also get to use your toy in Costume Brawl.

As a Mesmer main, buffing the WM Portal Device as I’ve suggested will not detract from the value that a Mesmer brings to instanced group content (or anywhere else, for that matter). Mesmer can provide vastly more portals (~1 portal every 30s with Mimic, Continuum Split, and Portal, so ~10 times as many portals as my suggested buff to the WM Portal Device), longer duration portals (when traited), and also provide unique value with their elite specialization with massive amounts of Quickness, and also Alacrity.

Mesmer isn’t going anywhere, and a WM Portal Device that’s buffed to have legitimate value for the cost has no comparison to what a Mesmer can provide a party, and as such, is not even remotely a threat to Mesmers. To say nothing of the fact that very few people will buy the buffed device, again, because of the high cost and the fact they could otherwise buy a +5 Power Ghostly Infusion and use the gold they get on quite a lot of other things.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

It has no effect on mesmers if it has a cooldown greater than most elite skills in the game.

5 minutes accomplishes this.

It’s still too close to mesmer, especially for unique class mechanic. Basically, he is asking for pocket mesmer, which is unacceptable. Though, I guess it’s possible to buff one aspect of this toy while nerfing other. Want 1/6 of original CD? Make max portal radius 1/6 too.

I had no idea mesmers only skill was portal…..

Pocket Mesmer …. you cannot be real with this sorta comparison. Maybe all engineers should complain about the Experimental Rifles as its Shadow Leap is superior to Jump Shot

Because you know 1 part of a kit totally defines the entirety of the class.

Zui.9245:

It’s a raid reward that costs 1000 Magnetite Shards (10 weeks of shard-capped raiding), and with an equivalent value to 453 gold. If it were to cost a mere 100 shards, I’d agree with you.

Then ask for refund. Nobody forcing you to buy it, and nobody promised you that it will be anywhere close to real mesmer portal.
And “muh 10 weeks of raiding” is not argument at all. Back in 2013 you could get ONE laurel per day, and 10 more as monthly reward. And what could you get for that awesome 100 days of doing stuff daily? A cat tonic. And now you are asking for a mesmer portal because you got some shards? Lolno.

Rednik.3809:

It’s still too close to mesmer, especially for unique class mechanic. Basically, he is asking for pocket mesmer, which is unacceptable.

Experimental Teleportation Gun – 30s Cooldown.

Watchwork Portal Device – 90s Cooldown.

The portal mechanic has already been duplicated by other consumables which are better value than the White Mantle Portal Device. Suggesting that a very high cost raid reward should at least have value on-par with those items is far from “unacceptable”. On the contrary, it makes sense.

Other classes have had unique mechanics duplicated, replicated, or improved by consumables or even certain entire skill categories outclassed by consumable items.

Experiemental Rifles are much better than Jump Shot (Engineer Skill).

Executioner’s Axe Toy #2 is the best movement skill in the game, bar none.

Harpy Feathers, Ash Legion Spy Kits, and Order of Whispers spy kits duplicate the Stealth mechanic.

Medical Packs and Medical Kits duplicate Engineer Medical Packs.

Fire Elemental Powder replicates Lesser Fire Elemental (elementalist skill).

Ogre Pet Whistle replicates a ranger pet.

Golem in a Box is the longest range skill in game, beating Engineer Mortar Kit by 100 range.

I could keep going.

And yet, none of these seem to create a problem that replaces classes, or creates a “[insert class here] in a box”. They barely even get used, despite a cost that’s almost invariably less than a few silver each (aside from the Executioner’s Axe Toy). Watchwork Portal Devices don’t create a “Mesmer in a box”, and they’re better than the WM Portal Device.

The White Mantle Portal Device is vastly more expensive, and vastly more exclusive than any of those. Why would you expect it to be a problem, when none of this other stuff, including Experimental Teleportation Guns and Watchwork Portal Devices, are a problem?

Does it work in WvW?

Gudradain.3892:

Does it work in WvW?

Nope. It does not work in WvW (and it obviously shouldn’t work in WvW).

Zui.9245:

Experimental Teleportation Gun – 30s Cooldown.

Watchwork Portal Device – 90s Cooldown.

The portal mechanic has already been duplicated by other consumables which are better value than the White Mantle Portal Device. Suggesting that a very high cost raid reward should at least have value on-par with those items is far from “unacceptable”. On the contrary, it makes sense.

Other classes have had unique mechanics duplicated, replicated, or improved by consumables or even certain entire skill categories outclassed by consumable items.

Experiemental Rifles are much better than Jump Shot (Engineer Skill).

Executioner’s Axe Toy #2 is the best movement skill in the game, bar none.

Harpy Feathers, Ash Legion Spy Kits, and Order of Whispers spy kits duplicate the Stealth mechanic.

Medical Packs and Medical Kits duplicate Engineer Medical Packs.

Fire Elemental Powder replicates Lesser Fire Elemental (elementalist skill).

Ogre Pet Whistle replicates a ranger pet.

Golem in a Box is the longest range skill in game, beating Engineer Mortar Kit by 100 range.

I could keep going.

And yet, none of these seem to create a problem that replaces classes, or creates a “[insert class here] in a box”. They barely even get used, despite a cost that’s almost invariably less than a few silver each (aside from the Executioner’s Axe Toy). Watchwork Portal Devices don’t create a “Mesmer in a box”, and they’re better than the WM Portal Device.

The White Mantle Portal Device is vastly more expensive, and vastly more exclusive than any of those. Why would you expect it to be a problem, when none of this other stuff, including Experimental Teleportation Guns and Watchwork Portal Devices, are a problem?

It’s all consumables, and majority of them cant even be used anywhere outside of open world. Do you want to go that way? Fine, watchwork portal device costs ~9g to make right now. So you saying your raid toy is 453g for 1000 shards? 453/9=50.3(3). Lets make it consumable then. 1000/50=20. So, how about making it consumable bought for 20 shards each, with all other characteristics copypasted from watchwork device?
But ofc you will refuse, because you want pocket permanent mesmer portal for cheap.

Rednik.3809

But ofc you will refuse, because you want pocket permanent mesmer portal for cheap.

And yet again i had no clue mesmer’s only skill was portal.

The hyberbole can stop anytime now.

TexZero.7910:

And yet again i had no clue mesmer’s only skill was portal.

The hyberbole can stop anytime now.

And you have no idea what you are asking for, when you want to permanently get one of most unique class skills in the game for a gold equivalent of few hours of AB farm.

ok so lets make it a “pocket mesmer”

add permanent alacrity to it
add permanent quickness for 10 people
mimic to double every skill you want
some clones
feedback
ofc polymorph moa

now im ok with 30min cd, just for portal not.

Yes, it’s all consumables. Yet every single one on that list save for the Experimental Rifle can be used in instanced content. You not knowing this suggests to me that you’re not actually part of what I’d consider to be the Dungeon & Fractal community, since nearly all of what I listed are very widely known consumables.

20 shards for a single use device that’s identical to WW portals would be better than the current device. Although, obviously, the value would still be very low because it’d simply be equivalent to watchwork portal devices, which have abysmally low value and hence why no one ever uses them under any circumstances.

Wait, I was supposed to refuse your alternative suggestion since I, as a Mesmer main, clearly just want a “pocket permanent Mesmer portal for cheap”, even though Mesmer is a lot more than just portals, can put out vastly more portals than my suggested WM Portal Device, and the cost of either my or your suggested devices are quite expensive in terms of gold equivalence, and even more expensive when looking at time to gold equivalence (where you could just farm Ectovine, and make vastly more WW portals than you could get WM portals for the same time spent… and of course there’d be no weekly cap on how many WW portals you could make, whereas WM portals would cap out at 5 under your suggestion).

I don’t plan to respond to your future posts, Rednik, unless you can come up with some actual solid reasoning or argumentation. As-is, you’re saying the same stuff repeatedly without backing it up, while mostly ignoring the issues others have pointed out with your claims.

Zui.9245:

Rednik.3809:

It’s still too close to mesmer, especially for unique class mechanic. Basically, he is asking for pocket mesmer, which is unacceptable.

Experimental Teleportation Gun – 30s Cooldown.

Watchwork Portal Device – 90s Cooldown.

The portal mechanic has already been duplicated by other consumables which are better value than the White Mantle Portal Device. Suggesting that a very high cost raid reward should at least have value on-par with those items is far from “unacceptable”. On the contrary, it makes sense.

Other classes have had unique mechanics duplicated, replicated, or improved by consumables or even certain entire skill categories outclassed by consumable items.

Experiemental Rifles are much better than Jump Shot (Engineer Skill).

Executioner’s Axe Toy #2 is the best movement skill in the game, bar none.

Harpy Feathers, Ash Legion Spy Kits, and Order of Whispers spy kits duplicate the Stealth mechanic.

Medical Packs and Medical Kits duplicate Engineer Medical Packs.

Fire Elemental Powder replicates Lesser Fire Elemental (elementalist skill).

Ogre Pet Whistle replicates a ranger pet.

Golem in a Box is the longest range skill in game, beating Engineer Mortar Kit by 100 range.

I could keep going.

And yet, none of these seem to create a problem that replaces classes, or creates a “[insert class here] in a box”. They barely even get used, despite a cost that’s almost invariably less than a few silver each (aside from the Executioner’s Axe Toy). Watchwork Portal Devices don’t create a “Mesmer in a box”, and they’re better than the WM Portal Device.

The White Mantle Portal Device is vastly more expensive, and vastly more exclusive than any of those. Why would you expect it to be a problem, when none of this other stuff, including Experimental Teleportation Guns and Watchwork Portal Devices, are a problem?

lets be honest , all thing you listed except med kit and harpy feather , none of them are class defined skill ,and not as useful as portal ,not even close .

and anet specifically nerfed harpy feather due to people abused it in dungeon run .back then you could say thief still had good aoe blind spam , good single target dps (they get dps back now) but anet nerfed harpy feather anyway .hot already brought too much power creep ,we dont need more by giving all classes some powerful tool which used to be class specific skill.

Experiemental Rifles are much better than Jump Shot (Engineer Skill).
cant be used in dungeon /fractal and has backfire knock .and honestly . do people ever play engi for jump shot , nope .

Executioner’s Axe Toy #2 is the best movement skill in the game, bar none.
first of all, it was/is arguably “pay to win” to begin with . its really a bad example . and again .none plays war for its gs rush .

Medical Packs and Medical Kits duplicate Engineer Medical Packs.
even engi themselves dont use med kit in most cases . and lets be honest , most time people just use it to get fury when solo .fury is such a class defined boon ,right ?

Fire Elemental Powder replicates Lesser Fire Elemental (elementalist skill).
Ogre Pet Whistle replicates a ranger pet.

and this two ,anet specifically added longass cd to them .and cd is 30 mins too . why u even used this two to argue ?

so all skills you listed have limitation ,on the other hand , worse than class skills .only harpy feather is still be useful but thief or engi will do much safer stealth for your group .but a portal just does what mes portal does ,why should it have shorter cd,when mes has to actually use a slot to run portal .

also remember : mes =/= chrono .
and before hot ,in most dungeons and fractal , portal was exactly the only thing for speed runners to bring a mes . that was worse than thief stealth being replaced by harpy feather.

the only class unique things being this level useful are ranger spirits /necro boon corruption and epidemic /chrono alacrity /scrapper res/stomp drone (not for pve )/ herald facet of nature/thief steal/guard aegis/war banner etc .so we should hand those to every class then we could just run tempest only group and no need any balance any more . great idea.

damage/cc/dash-like /even healing are not class specific abilities to begin with .

perry.9645:

ok so lets make it a “pocket mesmer”

add permanent alacrity to it
add permanent quickness for 10 people
mimic to double every skill you want
some clones
feedback
ofc polymorph moa

now im ok with 30min cd, just for portal not.

mes=/= chrono for reasons , end of story .

I think it would be better if every class could do portal.

Everyone wants to be able to do a portal, but no one want to be a portal bot. I initially made a mesmer just to be able to port players into WvW keep, but I never liked playing mesmer. I would much rather like if my ele could do this skill.

Rednik.3809:

It’s still too close to mesmer, especially for unique class mechanic. Basically, he is asking for pocket mesmer, which is unacceptable. Though, I guess it’s possible to buff one aspect of this toy while nerfing other. Want 1/6 of original CD? Make max portal radius 1/6 too.

Pocket Mesmer already exists with the Watchwork Portal Device.

and btw as i remember , not many people enjoy playing consumables wars in gw1 after eotn introduced so many powerful consumables. hopefully anet did learn this lesson .
many play the game for the sake of no gear grind and combat which focus on animation and your own skill bar.
we really dont need to push game to “play my inventory because i collect so many powerful toys through grind or specific pve content .”

locking stats into some contents are already bad enough . creating tools from certain reward too useful will just make this situation worse .

if you really feel trolled by that cd , i suggest you send a email to anet instead of demanding such change without realizing how much conflict it will cause to core game design .

Nokaru.7831:

Rednik.3809:

It’s still too close to mesmer, especially for unique class mechanic. Basically, he is asking for pocket mesmer, which is unacceptable. Though, I guess it’s possible to buff one aspect of this toy while nerfing other. Want 1/6 of original CD? Make max portal radius 1/6 too.

Pocket Mesmer already exists with the Watchwork Portal Device.

then use watchwork portal device since its same for you . why argue here . go and craft .

musu.9205:

then use watchwork portal device since its same for you . why argue here . go and craft .

I’m not even arguing anything, just pointing out the facts. If pocket mesmer is so offensive to you, then I’m afraid you missed the boat on that a few years ago.

Gudradain.3892:

I think it would be better if every class could do portal.

Everyone wants to be able to do a portal, but no one want to be a portal bot. I initially made a mesmer just to be able to port players into WvW keep, but I never liked playing mesmer. I would much rather like if my ele could do this skill.

honest answer : not gonna happen as long as anet balance pve and pvp as whole.

how to make every class be able to use portal :
1.make it a f6 skill or elite skill , classes like ele or necro will be completely broken in pvp .

2.make it a tool in pve as some achievement reward or raid reward . first of all,it will cause access problem , it will work just like wow gear level .either you have it or you have less choice to join group, it wont be too bad but why make bad design to begin with .secondly, portal hold back mes from ever buffs mes needs like sustain dps and many weapon skills .if anet make portal a general tool in pve but still balance with the idea that portal is still being mes only thing in pvp . it will make mes balance much worse if mes sustain damage isnt screwed enough .right now mes gets chrono to work around , what about next expansion . what about core mes and level experience or solo power ?

I find this hilarious. I bet arnenet are regretting putting this toy on the raid merchant already.

This goes very well with a german saying which translated means:

“Give a man a finger, and he’ll take your entire hand.”

The WMPD is a toy, period. Not matter its price. No one is forcing you to buy one and if you do without reading up on what you purchase especially when it’s this expensive, guess whos fault that is?

All the arguments that it’s not a mesmer defining skill yada yada yada. I bet quite a few people would see this quite differently if their class was affected by such a change. How about we introduce 3 minute reusable banners then? Or summonable weapon skills which rival that of elementalists?

All the consumables mentioned are just that: consumables. The price difference between consumables and permanent items always has been huge in this game, especially for something which would get used as often as a portal.

I’ll repeat what I said in the same thread from yesterday. If you need portals on lower cooldowns, bring your mesmer. If you can’t do the things you want with the mesmer you have your answer as to why the cooldown is a good thing.

Nokaru.7831:

musu.9205:

then use watchwork portal device since its same for you . why argue here . go and craft .

I’m not even arguing anything, just pointing out the facts. If pocket mesmer is so offensive to you, then I’m afraid you missed the boat on that a few years ago.

everyone knows its too expensive to ever be practical. so again , whats your point to give watchwork portal device as example ?

and i ensure you if anet ever made watachwork portal device useful with reasonable costs when it came out ,many mesmers would have felt much more offended .back then there wasnt a thing called chrono for quickness bot.

Today, I got one for free from Xera’ s chest.

I agree the price is too high to buy one.

Zui.9245:

Yes, it’s all consumables. Yet every single one on that list save for the Experimental Rifle can be used in instanced content. You not knowing this suggests to me that you’re not actually part of what I’d consider to be the Dungeon & Fractal community, since nearly all of what I listed are very widely known consumables.

20 shards for a single use device that’s identical to WW portals would be better than the current device. Although, obviously, the value would still be very low because it’d simply be equivalent to watchwork portal devices, which have abysmally low value and hence why no one ever uses them under any circumstances.

Wait, I was supposed to refuse your alternative suggestion since I, as a Mesmer main, clearly just want a “pocket permanent Mesmer portal for cheap”, even though Mesmer is a lot more than just portals, can put out vastly more portals than my suggested WM Portal Device, and the cost of either my or your suggested devices are quite expensive in terms of gold equivalence, and even more expensive when looking at time to gold equivalence (where you could just farm Ectovine, and make vastly more WW portals than you could get WM portals for the same time spent… and of course there’d be no weekly cap on how many WW portals you could make, whereas WM portals would cap out at 5 under your suggestion).

I don’t plan to respond to your future posts, Rednik, unless you can come up with some actual solid reasoning or argumentation. As-is, you’re saying the same stuff repeatedly without backing it up, while mostly ignoring the issues others have pointed out with your claims.

tl;dr: I’m out of arguments and I want my shiny because I want it. Have fun, then. I’ll just make sure that any dev that will read this topic will see all counterarguments, enough to dismiss your ridiculous suggestion.

musu.9205:

Gudradain.3892:

I think it would be better if every class could do portal.

Everyone wants to be able to do a portal, but no one want to be a portal bot. I initially made a mesmer just to be able to port players into WvW keep, but I never liked playing mesmer. I would much rather like if my ele could do this skill.

honest answer : not gonna happen as long as anet balance pve and pvp as whole.

how to make every class be able to use portal :
1.make it a f6 skill or elite skill , classes like ele or necro will be completely broken in pvp .

2.make it a tool in pve as some achievement reward or raid reward . first of all,it will cause access problem , it will work just like wow gear level .either you have it or you have less choice to join group, it wont be too bad but why make bad design to begin with .secondly, portal hold back mes from ever buffs mes needs like sustain dps and many weapon skills .if anet make portal a general tool in pve but still balance with the idea that portal is still being mes only thing in pvp . it will make mes balance much worse if mes sustain damage isnt screwed enough .right now mes gets chrono to work around , what about next expansion . what about core mes and level experience or solo power ?

Thx for the very good answer.

I especially like your point about how the portal is one of the thing holding the mesmers from becoming a real viable class. It’s something I wonder too.

I used to only WvW and the only reason we brought mesmers were for portal and veil.

Now I’m mostly raiding and the only reason we bring mesmer is for quickess/alacrity (+ tanking).

They kind of have a place everywhere but only for their gimmick which feels weird.

musu.9205:

everyone knows its too expensive to ever be practical

Do you think the WM Portal device is better than the Clockwork Portal Devices? If so, why?

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

And yet again i had no clue mesmer’s only skill was portal.

The hyperbole can stop anytime now.

And you have no idea what you are asking for, when you want to permanently get one of most unique class skills in the game for a gold equivalent of few hours of AB farm.

Again, 99% of that already exist in game. There are literally consumables that give you skills of other classes, if not superior versions.

Also, why are we even bringing up the use of an exploit to gain gold and relating it to class skills.

I gave you a simple comparison, where in a “toy” as you put it outshines the actual skill. So how is this in your mind acceptable but keeping both skills unique and having meaningful cooldowns not ?

Nokaru.7831:

musu.9205:

everyone knows its too expensive to ever be practical

Do you think the WM Portal device is better than the Clockwork Portal Devices? If so, why?

I don’t raid, but… If I could pay the comparable gold price people have listed and get this thing? I’d do so in a heartbeat.

Why? Because I don’t NEED a portal all that often, but sometimes it would be great to be able to make one. And I could toss that into one of my shared slots, and it would always be there when I need it. Even if it’s just for fun. Especially if it’s just for fun. I’m actually a bit upset that it’s raid only.

TexZero.7910:

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

And yet again i had no clue mesmer’s only skill was portal.

The hyperbole can stop anytime now.

And you have no idea what you are asking for, when you want to permanently get one of most unique class skills in the game for a gold equivalent of few hours of AB farm.

Again, 99% of that already exist in game. There are literally consumables that give you skills of other classes, if not superior versions.

Also, why are we even bringing up the use of an exploit to gain gold and relating it to class skills.

I gave you a simple comparison, where in a “toy” as you put it outshines the actual skill. So how is this in your mind acceptable but keeping both skills unique and having meaningful cooldowns not ?

Again:

TexZero.7910:

There are literally consumables that give you skills of other classes, if not superior versions.

And again since if it wasn’t obvious enough:

TexZero.7910:

consumables

That is the big difference. on top of that in this case it’s consumables that cost 5-10 gold. Big difference. If someone wants to shell out 10 gold to mimic another classes skill, fine. Making it baseline available to everyone for permanent use, not.

There is very few skills that would have that big an effect on the game if widely spread like portal. All future content would have to be designed with the possibility of multiple portals in a group. Old content would become vastly obsolete. Mesmer can already bypass great amounts of HoT mastery requirements and transport players to places they are supposed to reach later not to mention jumping puzzles.

Stop looking at this from a “I want want want, gimme gimme gimme!” perspective but actualy from a design and health of game perspective if you don’t care about class design and uniquness.

Personally the way this disscussion is headed I would love for arenanet to close this opened bottle. Remove the device, refund players their expense, add similar mechanics to a few classes if they absolutely want more classes to have portal availability. That way this could at least be balanced somewhat.

Cyninja.2954:

TexZero.7910:

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

And yet again i had no clue mesmer’s only skill was portal.

The hyperbole can stop anytime now.

And you have no idea what you are asking for, when you want to permanently get one of most unique class skills in the game for a gold equivalent of few hours of AB farm.

Again, 99% of that already exist in game. There are literally consumables that give you skills of other classes, if not superior versions.

Also, why are we even bringing up the use of an exploit to gain gold and relating it to class skills.

I gave you a simple comparison, where in a “toy” as you put it outshines the actual skill. So how is this in your mind acceptable but keeping both skills unique and having meaningful cooldowns not ?

Again:

TexZero.7910:

There are literally consumables that give you skills of other classes, if not superior versions.

And again since if it wasn’t obvious enough:

TexZero.7910:

consumables

That is the big difference. on top of that in this case it’s consumables that cost 5-10 gold. Big difference. If someone wants to shell out 10 gold to mimic another classes skill, fine. Making it baseline available to everyone for permanent use, not.

There is very few skills that would have that big an effect on the game if widely spread like portal. All future content would have to be designed with the possibility of multiple portals in a group. Old content would become vastly obsolete. Mesmer can already bypass great amounts of HoT mastery requirements and transport players to places they are supposed to reach later not to mention jumping puzzles.

Stop looking at this from a “I want want want, gimme gimme gimme!” perspective but actualy from a design and health of game perspective if you don’t care about class design and uniquness.

Personally the way this disscussion is headed I would love for arenanet to close this opened bottle. Remove the device, refund players their expense, add similar mechanics to a few classes if they absolutely want more classes to have portal availability. That way this could at least be balanced somewhat.

Oh please spare me the word play. The tools in question do the same thing regardless of the label you place on them.

Portal having a widespread impact ?
Really, outside of skipping certain area’s of play what does a portal do that a glider doesnt already, or heck people just using their space bar.

If you want to talk about the health of the game, consumables that are there for fun having a longer cooldown than the skill counter-part is what balances them. But there’s such a thing as overkill when you apply cooldowns. 30minutes is extreme for any item in this game. Limiting to 5 or even 10 minutes still keeps portal unique and doesnt detract from anyone’s perceived “value” as a class. Which i’ve already called out as bunk, because frankly no one brings a “mesmer” strictly for portal, it’s not the only tool a mesmer has available to them and there are already other consumables with shorter cooldowns that accomplish the same thing.

So all these counterpoints that mesmer players want to keep themselves unique is where the greed and inability to keep gameplay health in mind is getting lost. After all a game is meant to be fun, and you’re trying to take that away for the sake of you instead of actual balanced use of consumables.

TexZero.7910:

So all these counterpoints that mesmer players want to keep themselves unique is where the greed and inability to keep gameplay health in mind is getting lost. After all a game is meant to be fun, and you’re trying to take that away for the sake of you instead of actual balanced use of consumables.

“Give me your unique class mechanic for cheap or I will call you a greedy and fun-hating person” is not a really good argument. I think Cyninja is actually right and best decision is completely delete this item from the game and refund full cost back to owners.

Cyninja.2954:

bla bla

Because it is so hard and difficult to make a mesmer, level it to 80 and unlock portal. I guess only talented and superior human beings that main mesmer can do it :^)
I mean you have to create a character, click 79 of your 2k+ tomes of knowledge and then unlock the skill. Tough task.
Sometimes i really wonder if the outrageous entitlement and jealousy that others might have access to portal without paying 9g/use comes automatically with playing a mesmer.
Its especially astonishing since most portals are probably used in open world to help other players. (!)
Would be funny if every warrior and thief player behaved like mesmer players, the complaints about the executioner axe toy would be endless as it challenges your superior mobility.

Erzian.5218:

Cyninja.2954:

bla bla

Because it is so hard and difficult to make a mesmer, level it to 80 and unlock portal. I guess only talented and superior human beings that main mesmer can do it :^)
I mean you have to create a character, click 79 of your 2k+ tomes of knowledge and then unlock the skill. Tough task.
Sometimes i really wonder if the outrageous entitlement and jealousy that others might have access to portal without paying 9g/use comes automatically with playing a mesmer.
Its especially astonishing since most portals are probably used in open world to help other players. (!)
Would be funny if every warrior and thief player behaved like mesmer players, the complaints about the executioner axe toy would be endless as it challenges your superior mobility.

whats wrong with your people , if you wanna play some game where everyon could have same abilities , go play fps , oh nope even many fps games dont give all stuff you want for many reasons .

why you guys dont cry about nerfed harpy feather ? nerfed fire ele powder (same longass 30min cd )

lets be honest .its simple you think you spent much effort to get that portal device , now you felt trolled for 30 mins cd.
so how about instead you guys kept whining on forum and anet wont care less about this thread , you could have already sent support ticket to refund .much easier that way .

right now you guys are just making bad of yourselves and making enemies from mesmer mains while ignoring many reasons we listed here .

same argue could be war press 1-2 buttons and get 25 stacks of mights . press 2 button so the one of best buff banners show up for team with large aoe radius . easy right ? so it should be handed to every class since its easy ?

scrapper one button to rez / stomp from range. easy
tempest : automatically stunbreak . not easy but braindead .icebow easy ,FGS easy
necro : boon corruption on aa . easy
etc

what skill is actually tough in gw2 for you ? if not , why we shouldnt just make one class with all those abilities from some pve rewards following your logic ?

why you even play gw2 and reply randomly on forum which certainly didnt take much effort from your part given how you ignored what everyone said and decided to directly attack mesmer mains .

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

So all these counterpoints that mesmer players want to keep themselves unique is where the greed and inability to keep gameplay health in mind is getting lost. After all a game is meant to be fun, and you’re trying to take that away for the sake of you instead of actual balanced use of consumables.

“Give me your unique class mechanic for cheap or I will call you a greedy and fun-hating person” is not a really good argument. I think Cyninja is actually right and best decision is completely delete this item from the game and refund full cost back to owners.

Who said anything about wanting it for cheap ?

As is the WMD is the most costly consumable there is.

And it really is hard to see your complaints as anything but fun hating….sorry but when you base your entire complaint around “Pocket Mesmer” insinuating that mesmers are nothing more than portals….

Again though, i’ve already showcased that this isn’t a unique thing. Players can go out and grab consumables (some rather cheaply) to gain access to other classes unique skills or mechanics.

It’s also highly suspect and extremely biased that you think the best way to solve the problem is to remove something that is clearly intended to just be there for fun. Instead of lowering the cooldown to a much more reasonable level which has 0 impact on any profession.