Guild Wars 2

Erzian.5218:

Cyninja.2954:

bla bla

Because it is so hard and difficult to make a mesmer, level it to 80 and unlock portal. I guess only talented and superior human beings that main mesmer can do it :^)
I mean you have to create a character, click 79 of your 2k+ tomes of knowledge and then unlock the skill. Tough task.
Sometimes i really wonder if the outrageous entitlement and jealousy that others might have access to portal without paying 9g/use comes automatically with playing a mesmer.
Its especially astonishing since most portals are probably used in open world to help other players. (!)
Would be funny if every warrior and thief player behaved like mesmer players, the complaints about the executioner axe toy would be endless as it challenges your superior mobility.

Way to miss the point, good try though to change the subject.

This is not about playing mesmer or other classes, but thank you for making just my point. We are in agreement then that giving this skill would make people play less mesmers since one of their unique skills was removed. I also said I would rather they give the skill out as baseline to otherclasses and balance around that than have an unbalanced toy (which in itsself brings a lot of other problems it being raid exclusive etc, but lets ignore that for now).

The person who is acting entitled here is you, not people who are concerned about the general balance of the game or uniquness of classes.

As I mentioned futher up, if you need more portals than the device allows, roll a mesmer (same suggestion you made). If the mesmer does not suit your needs but you still want the portal, well I guess we now see where the problem lies.

TexZero.7910:

Cyninja.2954:

TexZero.7910:

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

And yet again i had no clue mesmer’s only skill was portal.

The hyperbole can stop anytime now.

And you have no idea what you are asking for, when you want to permanently get one of most unique class skills in the game for a gold equivalent of few hours of AB farm.

Again, 99% of that already exist in game. There are literally consumables that give you skills of other classes, if not superior versions.

Also, why are we even bringing up the use of an exploit to gain gold and relating it to class skills.

I gave you a simple comparison, where in a “toy” as you put it outshines the actual skill. So how is this in your mind acceptable but keeping both skills unique and having meaningful cooldowns not ?

Again:

TexZero.7910:

There are literally consumables that give you skills of other classes, if not superior versions.

And again since if it wasn’t obvious enough:

TexZero.7910:

consumables

That is the big difference. on top of that in this case it’s consumables that cost 5-10 gold. Big difference. If someone wants to shell out 10 gold to mimic another classes skill, fine. Making it baseline available to everyone for permanent use, not.

There is very few skills that would have that big an effect on the game if widely spread like portal. All future content would have to be designed with the possibility of multiple portals in a group. Old content would become vastly obsolete. Mesmer can already bypass great amounts of HoT mastery requirements and transport players to places they are supposed to reach later not to mention jumping puzzles.

Stop looking at this from a “I want want want, gimme gimme gimme!” perspective but actualy from a design and health of game perspective if you don’t care about class design and uniquness.

Personally the way this disscussion is headed I would love for arenanet to close this opened bottle. Remove the device, refund players their expense, add similar mechanics to a few classes if they absolutely want more classes to have portal availability. That way this could at least be balanced somewhat.

Oh please spare me the word play. The tools in question do the same thing regardless of the label you place on them.

Portal having a widespread impact ?
Really, outside of skipping certain area’s of play what does a portal do that a glider doesnt already, or heck people just using their space bar.

If you want to talk about the health of the game, consumables that are there for fun having a longer cooldown than the skill counter-part is what balances them. But there’s such a thing as overkill when you apply cooldowns. 30minutes is extreme for any item in this game. Limiting to 5 or even 10 minutes still keeps portal unique and doesnt detract from anyone’s perceived “value” as a class. Which i’ve already called out as bunk, because frankly no one brings a “mesmer” strictly for portal, it’s not the only tool a mesmer has available to them and there are already other consumables with shorter cooldowns that accomplish the same thing.

So all these counterpoints that mesmer players want to keep themselves unique is where the greed and inability to keep gameplay health in mind is getting lost. After all a game is meant to be fun, and you’re trying to take that away for the sake of you instead of actual balanced use of consumables.

you won all this thread since you cant read the reasons many of us listed here .

gratz for that .

now reward yourself either watchclock portal or white mantle ones . or better both . buy more and craft more .

anet will listen to you . and change this tool like what they did to fire ele powder or harpy feather.

since you won the forum , you will get what you want .dont listen to us fool mesmers .
trust yourself .

gw2 is designed to focus on inventory management ! play bags to win !

wait for your full bags of 250 stacks portal device post. it will banish us jealous mesmer into the void (you can take that mes focus skill as well btw)

and dont look at what we said here including how portal have huge impact on game balance and many other aspects . they are all word play .

and happy ending will be you with your ultimate mobile portal warehouse saving tyrians from jp or fractal skip .

you have faith . you made effort . soon anet will obey .

Cyninja.2954:

Erzian.5218:

Cyninja.2954:

bla bla

Because it is so hard and difficult to make a mesmer, level it to 80 and unlock portal. I guess only talented and superior human beings that main mesmer can do it :^)
I mean you have to create a character, click 79 of your 2k+ tomes of knowledge and then unlock the skill. Tough task.
Sometimes i really wonder if the outrageous entitlement and jealousy that others might have access to portal without paying 9g/use comes automatically with playing a mesmer.
Its especially astonishing since most portals are probably used in open world to help other players. (!)
Would be funny if every warrior and thief player behaved like mesmer players, the complaints about the executioner axe toy would be endless as it challenges your superior mobility.

Way to miss the point, good try though to change the subject.

This is not about playing mesmer or other classes, but thank you for making just my point. We are in agreement then that giving this skill would make people play less mesmers since one of their unique skills was removed. I also said I would rather they give the skill out as baseline to otherclasses and balance around that than have an unbalanced toy (which in itsself brings a lot of other problems it being raid exclusive etc, but lets ignore that for now).

The person who is acting entitled here is you, not people who are concerned about the general balance of the game or uniquness of classes.

As I mentioned futher up, if you need more portals than the device allows, roll a mesmer (same suggestion you made). If the mesmer does not suit your needs but you still want the portal, well I guess we now see where the problem lies.

i think at this point , arguing with him is pretty much pointless . i suggest we all admit he won this thread . and he could do what i list above to take over rest of tyria .let us look forward .

I am sorry to blow it for you but, despite having more than enough magnetite shards, I haven’t bought the portal device simply because it is not worth its cost with its 30m cool down, which is exactly the issue. It is a new toy with an incredibly high cost (more expensive than any other toy) but because of its cool down its neither fun nor particularly useful. I don’t want to play a game of LoL or Dota or whatever between every usage of an item.
And no we are not in agreement, people would not stop playing mesmer if the portal device had a reasonable cool down. This is not 2014 where people brought mesmer for portal. Mesmer is not an endangered class. Stop playing the victim. If your care so much about balance and classes being used less frequently, you should start making threads about making thief and engineer useful instead of your “but this is one of the many things that my class can do, others should not have access to it without paying a high amount of gold per usage mimimimimi”-posts. It has absolutely nothing to do with balance but with convenience and fun aka things that make a game entertaining.

edit: wow how can you be so kitten. People just want an item that is actually useful and fun and thus desirable instead of one that is awkward, terribly priced. OP has made good points and a usable and reasonably priced portal wont make mesmer obsolete. Nowadays, the class isn’t even remotely taken for portal in what is supposedly gw2’s end content (fractals&raids). Most of the time, you should not even bring portal.

musu.9205:

Cyninja.2954:

Erzian.5218:

Cyninja.2954:

bla bla

Because it is so hard and difficult to make a mesmer, level it to 80 and unlock portal. I guess only talented and superior human beings that main mesmer can do it :^)
I mean you have to create a character, click 79 of your 2k+ tomes of knowledge and then unlock the skill. Tough task.
Sometimes i really wonder if the outrageous entitlement and jealousy that others might have access to portal without paying 9g/use comes automatically with playing a mesmer.
Its especially astonishing since most portals are probably used in open world to help other players. (!)
Would be funny if every warrior and thief player behaved like mesmer players, the complaints about the executioner axe toy would be endless as it challenges your superior mobility.

Way to miss the point, good try though to change the subject.

This is not about playing mesmer or other classes, but thank you for making just my point. We are in agreement then that giving this skill would make people play less mesmers since one of their unique skills was removed. I also said I would rather they give the skill out as baseline to otherclasses and balance around that than have an unbalanced toy (which in itsself brings a lot of other problems it being raid exclusive etc, but lets ignore that for now).

The person who is acting entitled here is you, not people who are concerned about the general balance of the game or uniquness of classes.

As I mentioned futher up, if you need more portals than the device allows, roll a mesmer (same suggestion you made). If the mesmer does not suit your needs but you still want the portal, well I guess we now see where the problem lies.

i think at this point , arguing with him is pretty much pointless . i suggest we all admit he won this thread . and he could do what i list above to take over rest of tyria .let us look forward .

I think you’re right. I was supprised Thiefs and Engineers are useless now. Last I checked Thief got a major damage buff a while back and is in one of the top dps spots in raids with autoattacks and engineer was always useful, just very difficult to play.

I think this is the part where rational people back away very very slowly.

Erzian.5218:

you should start making threads about making thief and engineer useful instead of your "

you dont even know what kind of balance i was talking about .

portal is a skill which has huge impact in many places . no matter how you try to ignore this , this is a fact in all game modes . a term -portal bot was used in all game modes referring to mes for reasons .

and any other skills same as class skill either far weaker or with longass cd some even are weaker with longass cd .

also anet tried and is still trying to balance pve and pvp at same time . i already said why giving other classes portal in pve will make mes balance worse . chrono is only one elite spec . we have core mes and next expansion elite as well. so while portal hold mes back from needed buffs for pvp , pve mes will suffer as their portal being taken by all other classes and others doing far better dps . without elite the classes like ranger only has spirits and spotter for teamplay . mes only has portal . since everything else others do better .
for its equal , unless anet hands spirits to all classes i see no point .

secondly ,this game was designed around combat skills from class skill bar .you select weapon and skill to do limited things .and also professions exist for reasons ,one being not throw all stuff into one .yeah it would feel bad when i am on ele and i just want to get a friend to jp . but its same when i am on my mes and cant do much dps alone.

btw you know .few of people here already said those things times and you guys just refused to read and assuming some sort of mes greed .
a class being portal bot for 3 years , and rest of gamelife its being quicknessbot at same time it holds lowest dps title for 4 years and no foreseen changes .anyone with sanity would think twice before put words like greed or jealous on a support heavy class.

Cyninja.2954:

I think you’re right. I was supprised Thiefs and Engineers are useless now. Last I checked Thief got a major damage buff a while back and is in one of the top dps spots in raids with autoattacks and engineer was always useful, just very difficult to play.

I think this is the part where rational people back away very very slowly.

Perhaps if you start playing the game instead of making up non-sense based on patch notes you might realize what is actually going on. I just leave this screenshot (taken a couple of minutes ago). You might be surprised but it hardly looks any different in terms of engis and thieves during prime time. Engi was desired before the slick shoes nerf because of its insane cc but that is gone. Thief is simply an ele with less utility and less dps most of the time. If you think that doesn’t prove anything, feel free and check out more recent quick and successful runs on raid bosses. Or even things like 6 men boss x. Everyone runs a mesmer (without portal btw), warriors, eles and druids. nearly nobody runs thief or engi. Although it’s not what this topic is about, I hope it shows you why I and others disagree with the points that you are making, It appears, that you are very poorly informed.

musu.9205:

was used

You got the tense right, congratulations.

Erzian.5218:

Cyninja.2954:

I think you’re right. I was supprised Thiefs and Engineers are useless now. Last I checked Thief got a major damage buff a while back and is in one of the top dps spots in raids with autoattacks and engineer was always useful, just very difficult to play.

I think this is the part where rational people back away very very slowly.

Perhaps if you start playing the game instead of making up non-sense based on patch notes you might realize what is actually going on. I just leave this screenshot (taken a couple of minutes ago). You might be surprised but it hardly looks any different in terms of engis and thieves during prime time. Engi was desired before the slick shoes nerf because of its insane cc but that is gone. Thief is simply an ele with less utility and less dps most of the time. If you think that doesn’t prove anything, feel free and check out more recent quick and successful runs on raid bosses. Or even things like 6 men boss x. Everyone runs a mesmer (without portal btw), warriors, eles and druids. nearly nobody runs thief or engi. Although it’s not what this topic is about, I hope it shows you why I and others disagree with the points that you are making, It appears, that you are very poorly informed.

musu.9205:

was used

You got the tense right, congratulations.

Yes, please tell me more about how thief and Engi are uselss while being 2nd in damage only to Ele which rules all. https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ft01q/qt_dps_benchmarkstests_for_all_classes/

Nice screenshot, you do know that it can be interpreted multiple ways right?

Yes I know that reddit post. Now hop into the game and check out what raid groups look like. You will be impressed by the absurd amount of thieves and engis. If you wonder why, just check the forums, I am confident there are enough threads that discuss classes and their roles in raids.
The last time I had a thief in raids, was my own because I was bored and wanted to try something else. Tell you what, it sucked compared to every other class I have played in raids so far. Sure, it is playable but there is 0 reason to pick it over something else.

Erzian.5218:

Cyninja.2954:

I think you’re right. I was supprised Thiefs and Engineers are useless now. Last I checked Thief got a major damage buff a while back and is in one of the top dps spots in raids with autoattacks and engineer was always useful, just very difficult to play.

I think this is the part where rational people back away very very slowly.

Perhaps if you start playing the game instead of making up non-sense based on patch notes you might realize what is actually going on. I just leave this screenshot (taken a couple of minutes ago). You might be surprised but it hardly looks any different in terms of engis and thieves during prime time. Engi was desired before the slick shoes nerf because of its insane cc but that is gone. Thief is simply an ele with less utility and less dps most of the time. If you think that doesn’t prove anything, feel free and check out more recent quick and successful runs on raid bosses. Or even things like 6 men boss x. Everyone runs a mesmer (without portal btw), warriors, eles and druids. nearly nobody runs thief or engi. Although it’s not what this topic is about, I hope it shows you why I and others disagree with the points that you are making, It appears, that you are very poorly informed.

musu.9205:

was used

You got the tense right, congratulations.

let me repeat since you really failed to read many many times :

none of us ever said mes/chrono is useless without portal.

what i said :

chrono=/= mes . and we still need balance core class for future expansion
portal : a huge impact in all game modes . devs and many players take it as a fact . maybe you should agree with us .
anet balance pve and pvp all tgt . and anet wont hand portal to any other class for balance reason (ele necro etc will be broken with portal). so while portal hold mes back from dps buff due to pvp . but every class could use portal in pve . its ofc unfair to mes and certainly a nerf to mes . yes it wont make chrono unplayable . but it might make core mes completely useless . why mes main should feel happy about a random nerf just because you want to use a raid reward.

btw you think the white mantle portal device is not worth the price and us mes mains should go to help engi and thief .
by same logic , you should go to whine about black lion chest first . im pretty sure its much worse than WMPD and it affects more people too .

Erzian.5218:

Yes I know that reddit post. Now hop into the game and check out what raid groups look like. You will be impressed by the absurd amount of thieves and engis. If you wonder why, just check the forums, I am confident there are enough threads that discuss classes and their roles in raids.
The last time I had a thief in raids, was my own because I was bored and wanted to try something else. Tell you what, it sucked compared to every other class I have played in raids so far.

how about you go and whine about black lion chest . you know worst rng based stuff in game totally not worth the real monet and it affects all players.

im waiting for you new post anyway

Erzian.5218:

musu.9205:

was used

You got the tense right, congratulations.

i said that sentence to explain why portal has huge impact and why it holds core mes back from buffs.and why portal is a sensitive topic for mes mains .

again nothing about chrono being useful /must /viable in raid group .

read context for once please . i really have patience today .

forum bug babaljdanskd

Erzian.5218:

Yes I know that reddit post. Now hop into the game and check out what raid groups look like. You will be impressed by the absurd amount of thieves and engis. If you wonder why, just check the forums, I am confident there are enough threads that discuss classes and their roles in raids.
The last time I had a thief in raids, was my own because I was bored and wanted to try something else. Tell you what, it sucked compared to every other class I have played in raids so far.

Because chrono has multiple spots right? Oh wait, no they have 1 spot in raids and that’s it.

Come on, your just making yourself look more and more silly. Also I’m not seeing how this has to do with class uniqueness and portals, then again, I’m not the one derailing this thread.

@musu: No, I am simply not buying the “I am just concerned about the general game balance” argument. As it turned out, for a good reason.
also: Core mes and other core classes are already completely useless in a world of elite classes.

Cyninja.2954:

Come on, your just making yourself look more and more silly. Also I’m not seeing how this has to do with class uniqueness and portals, then again, I’m not the one derailing this thread.

Since you still dont understand it: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Watchwork_Portal_Device
A similar device is already in the game. The white mantle one does not affect your beloved class uniqueness at all. All I and others ask for is to make the newly introduced white mantle one worth it/useful. If people really want a portal on non-mesmer classes, they already have access to it. But you know, endless items (be it tonics, toys, bank access, portal devices, even mining tools, whatever) are always nicer to have than limited ones because they are more convenient (not necessarily cheaper). It doesn’t change anything for your mesmer. It just makes portals more convenient/more fun for others.
As a result, your arguments only serve one purpose (whether intentional or not) and that is prevent others from having more convenience. You make up arguments about balance and uniqueness and fail to realize that this is not about the introduction of a new functionality or tool but about making the new toy’s usefulness at least reasonable and not worse than one of the already existent item, which barely anyone uses.

You know what, if the watchwork one didn’t exist, I might be on your side and argue against the introduction/improvement of the white mantle one for the sake of keeping classes unique but this is not up for debate as there is already a better item than the white mantle one.

Cyninja.2954:

Yes, please tell me more about how thief and Engi are uselss while being 2nd in damage only to Ele which rules all. https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ft01q/qt_dps_benchmarkstests_for_all_classes/

Nice screenshot, you do know that it can be interpreted multiple ways right?

eh, they arent useless but when a pug group is at 8/10 with all the other roles filled, they ask for tempests, not engis or thieves or dhs or anything else that does “fine” dps but is 2nd place. because they are 2nd place, not 1st.

have you seen how much kitten a guy takes for running power engi at gors even though its as good as or better than condi in the absence of 2+ reapers? i suggest you try it.

They should just remove all consumables besides normal bufffood and utility-food tbh, problem solved. :^)

30min cd on this thing does seem a bit harsh, but imo it would be fine if they lowered the cost instead and refund those who bought the device the shard-difference. Otherwise yeah, gotta reduce the cd on it.

Have to say though that I’m personally adverse to consumables that give you new/different skills/options your class shouldn’t have access to as I personally think that’s extremely lame, especially when doing solo/low-man content (and I actually can’t understand why consumables besides food are allowed in solo/duo record runs), but that’s just me and I know there’s plenty of ground to argue about consumables being good or bad.

Erzian.5218:

Since you still dont understand it: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Watchwork_Portal_Device
A similar device is already in the game. The white mantle one does not affect your beloved class uniqueness at all.

No problem, make White Mantle one eat 10g per use like watchwork and everybody will be ok with it. But you don’t want to pay, you want mesmer portal for cheap. And you not going to get it, judging by Anet history of toy changes.

450g/1000 magnetite shards is far away from cheap. Try being less selfish for a moment and try imagining it as an (usable) item that is actually worth using as – you know – that it what usable items are for. Or just read OPs post as it explains what is wrong with it, how it worse than an item that is already so bad that barely anyone uses it.
The goal should be an item that people want to use, not one that nobody wants to use because the cost is absurd. Nobody in this thread asks for something that is better than or replaces mesmer portal, people are just asking for something that doesn’t suck and is actually worth its price.
10g/use does NOT promote using it, it promotes the exact opposite. It is an absurd price for giving someone else some convenience. We already have that and nobody uses it. There is a reason for that. I could craft a stack or two of them and there are people who could craft more stacks than they could ever use but nobody does that because it doesn’t make sense. What you get for your money is not worth it. Before I start putting watchwork portals for strangers, I’d give them the gold directly. At least that way they get something for it that might make them happy for more than a minute.
Yes, they will probably leave the item as it is as it is no gemstore item so it doesn’t get them any money but most people will just do the only reasonable thing. They wont buy it and forget about/don’t care about it.

edit: It is actually <5g per use (the recipe is for 2 portal devices) and that is still more than people are willing to pay.

Erzian.5218:

10g/use does NOT promote using it, it promotes the exact opposite. It is an absurd price for giving someone else some convenience. We already have that and nobody uses it. There is a reason for that. I could craft a stack or two of them and there are people who could craft more stacks than they could ever use but nobody does that because it doesn’t make sense. What you get for your money is not worth it.

Tell that to 3k+ for hair contract or personal banker.

Erzian.5218:

450g/1000 magnetite shards is far away from cheap. Try being less selfish for a moment and try imagining it as an (usable) item that is actually worth using as – you know – that it what usable items are for. Or just read OPs post as it explains what is wrong with it, how it worse than an item that is already so bad that barely anyone uses it.

Nope, it’s not cheap. Then again its barely 45 times as much as the consumable (at 10g per use). How far appart are other consumables versus their permanent counterparts in this game?

That’s maybe 1 week of using the portal skill. I doubt that is a reasonable price to compare a permanent item to their consumable counterpart.

Let’s make it 4,500g (which corresponds to 450 uses ergo 70 days or a 1/5th of a year.) and it might be worth changing. Ironically this would put it in the ballpark of where other pemanent consumable items are which are far less useful.

This has nothing to do with being selfish but is a pure matter of balance. Balance between classes, balance between consumables and permanent items and balance between movement skills and world design. The item is worth using already, otherwise the 30 minute cooldown wouldn’t hurt as much. The question you are asking is: is it worth owning.

If mesmer portals were actually as potent and game changing as a lot of people are trying to give off the impression here, then I doubt anyone would have quarrels with the cooldown and/or cost for the item as they currently are. This is blown out of proportion, as though mesmers are standing in line to help people cross the leyline gliding gap in Auric Basin or something.
I have yet to see someone give examples in the form of situations (that can also apply to this portal device) where a mesmer’s portal is the absolute winning move to the point that it justifies the current limitations of the bundle.

Cougre.6543:

If mesmer portals were actually as potent and game changing as a lot of people are trying to give off the impression here, then I doubt anyone would have quarrels with the cooldown and/or cost for the item as they currently are. This is blown out of proportion, as though mesmers are standing in line to help people cross the leyline gliding gap in Auric Basin or something.
I have yet to see someone give examples in the form of situations (that can also apply to this portal device) where a mesmer’s portal is the absolute winning move to the point that it justifies the current limitations of the bundle.

So if the skill is so underwhelming, why desire it so?

What people do and what people can do with mesmer portals are two very different things though wouldn’t you agree?

To deny this automatically removes you from any serious disscussion and shows your strong bias.

Wow look at all these people calling each other biased, pretending that they aren’t biased themselves!

The portal device doesn’t hurt mesmer’s role in anything. Ya’ll are all just a bunch of quickness/alacrity bots anyways.

Only reason I bought the portal device was because I had nothing else I wanted.

That being said, 30min CD is silly. The mesmer players going around saying that it’s fine are just being weird. Most of them probably don’t even use portal that much anymore anyways.

Rednik.3809:

Tell that to 3k+ for hair contract or personal banker.

The argument is silly, yet funny because the ratio between single use item and permanent one, is actually much in favor of the hairstylist. A permanent hairstylist costs as much as ~53 single use items. The permanent portal device on the other hand costs as much as ~100 portal devices.
It is way worse in case of the banker though. Repair canisters are around the same value as portal devices. So is the merchant. Trading post is around 80 single use items for a permanent one. This assumes you only buy single ones and don’t use the discount for buying multiple but also that you buy lodestones and don’t craft them.
If you really want to argue about this on the basis of the price of single use gem store items compared to their permanent counterpart, the white mantle portal device should be buffed to watch work level aka 90seconds cool down (which is not even what people ask for, e.g. 5minutes would be fine)
edit: math corrected. Didn’t pay attention to the crafting recipe. Neither did Cyninja.
edit2: update with more recent prices.

Cyninja.2954:

Cougre.6543:

If mesmer portals were actually as potent and game changing as a lot of people are trying to give off the impression here, then I doubt anyone would have quarrels with the cooldown and/or cost for the item as they currently are. This is blown out of proportion, as though mesmers are standing in line to help people cross the leyline gliding gap in Auric Basin or something.
I have yet to see someone give examples in the form of situations (that can also apply to this portal device) where a mesmer’s portal is the absolute winning move to the point that it justifies the current limitations of the bundle.

So if the skill is so underwhelming, why desire it so?

What people do and what people can do with mesmer portals are two very different things though wouldn’t you agree?

To deny this automatically removes you from any serious disscussion and shows your strong bias.

Nobody is denying how strong the skill can be except those who feel it would for some reason make mesmers a defunct class if other tools exist for players who for whatever reason don’t have a mesmer around them 24/7 had access to a higher cooldown portal toy.

But just to prove your point, what if the roles were reversed here, i can almost guarentee you’d be begging anet to bring portals cooldown down to earth to be reasonable as opposed to 30 minutes because it’s honestly not worth it for any skill to have a 30 minute cooldown. As is people are being quite rational in asking for a lower cooldown that still respects portal 5/10 minutes isn’t that big a deal and does not pose any harm to everyday gameplay nor does it invalidate a class.

10 mins cooldown would be fine, it would not replace mesmers in porting people like at JPs and stuff. It would also be rarely useful for yourself in doing JPs since you’d have to wait 10 mins for a port in case you fall.

It’d really only be a rarely useful item even at 10 mins, definitely can’t replace a mesmer port.

30 mins is just terrible, like the watchwork tonic. Nobody really uses it since the cooldown is so long so gg.

im pretty sure most of the people complaining just complain because they cant get the infinite portal and are salty about it but thats just a guess

Given that every dungeon/FotM run takes a few minutes at most AND usually takes advantage of double portal via mimic, I can hardly see this item “replacing” mesmers in any way. Not to mention mesmers have alacrtiy – which still is AFAIK entirely exclusive to them, ability to maintain perma quickness for 6-7 people and perma (or almost perma) block/evade for itself. That class still has perfectly enough unique flavor, possibly even too much.

Also, since the suggested QoL change would hardly do any gamebreaking or give any sort of advantage (portals are mostly used to help out newbies unable to get to a place), this would only promote friendly play and I think is very reasonable thing to ask for. +1000 to OP, agreed on every point. Not to mention that very high price needs to be justified somehow.

TexZero.7910:

But just to prove your point, what if the roles were reversed here, i can almost guarentee you’d be begging anet to bring portals cooldown down to earth to be reasonable as opposed to 30 minutes because it’s honestly not worth it for any skill to have a 30 minute cooldown. As is people are being quite rational in asking for a lower cooldown that still respects portal 5/10 minutes isn’t that big a deal and does not pose any harm to everyday gameplay nor does it invalidate a class.

But that’s just it, the protal device is NOT a skill. It’s a toy.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I myself usually am not someone who immediately asks for QoL changes based on my subjective desires(weighted since obviously all our desires are subjective). I try to weigh the pros and cons. The last time I was vocal about a change was during the HoT release fiasco for veteran players and was content when arenanet decided to add a character slot.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Given that every dungeon/FotM run takes a few minutes at most AND usually takes advantage of double portal via mimic, I can hardly see this item “replacing” mesmers in any way. Not to mention mesmers have alacrtiy – which still is AFAIK entirely exclusive to them, ability to maintain perma quickness for 6-7 people and perma (or almost perma) block/evade for itself. That class still has perfectly enough unique flavor, possibly even too much.

Also, since the suggested QoL change would hardly do any gamebreaking or give any sort of advantage (portals are mostly used to help out newbies unable to get to a place), this would only promote friendly play and I think is very reasonable thing to ask for. +1000 to OP, agreed on every point. Not to mention that very high price needs to be justified somehow.

Well that is the main difference in opinion I guess. Some people think the portal device would not have a gamebreaking function, others think it would due to the widespread portal ability.

Arenanet had hinted in the past that they were considering to give a skill similar to portal to less desired classes (back then it was rumored necromancer would get something similar) to improve their group utility. I doubt they had something like a short cooldown portal device in mind toy for everyone (well raiders only). Then again, who knows.

Personally I highly doubt they are going to change the cooldown on the item so this entire disscussion is moot. But people are well in their right to voice their opinion, same as for others to disagree.

perry.9645:

im pretty sure most of the people complaining just complain because they cant get the infinite portal and are salty about it but thats just a guess

im pretty sure most of the people complaining about too high cooldown just complain because they can get the infinite portal and now want to feel themselves special, and are salty about it but thats just a guess

Rednik.3809:

perry.9645:

im pretty sure most of the people complaining just complain because they cant get the infinite portal and are salty about it but thats just a guess

im pretty sure most of the people complaining about too high cooldown just complain because they can get the infinite portal and now want to feel themselves special, and are salty about it but thats just a guess

asking for a reasonable cooldown to make the item useable (even for mesmers cause they would save an utility slot) doesn’t seem “want to feel special”. How about we add 30min cooldowns to all other permanent items to streamline the experience?

perry.9645:

Rednik.3809:

perry.9645:

im pretty sure most of the people complaining just complain because they cant get the infinite portal and are salty about it but thats just a guess

im pretty sure most of the people complaining about too high cooldown just complain because they can get the infinite portal and now want to feel themselves special, and are salty about it but thats just a guess

asking for a reasonable cooldown to make the item useable (even for mesmers cause they would save an utility slot) doesn’t seem “want to feel special”. How about we add 30min cooldowns to all other permanent items to streamline the experience?

I know you were being sarcastic, but would cutting the cost of all permanent items to 1/10th and increasing the cooldown to 30 minutes not be a buff?

I mean I’d imediately buy all the permanent merchant, hair contract, etc. items at 1/10th their price. Waiting 30 minute to reuse would be not an issue.

The shorter cooldown items you linked would become so cheap (10gold for mobile mystic forge versus 100g) that the increased amount of people who could use them would be more than worth the wait. The royal terrase pass (which I own myself) would require a waypoint to allow access during cooldown (not free of charge), but besides that it would be fine.

Even the executioners axe which many consider one of the first pay-to-win items thanks to it’s movementspeed advantage could simply be made cheaper if need be.

Honestly, I actually see more benefit to the playerbase than disadvantages.

Rednik.3809:

perry.9645:

im pretty sure most of the people complaining just complain because they cant get the infinite portal and are salty about it but thats just a guess

im pretty sure most of the people complaining about too high cooldown just complain because they can get the infinite portal and now want to feel themselves special, and are salty about it but thats just a guess

Is there something wrong with that?

You seem to be complaining about people complaining because you’re salty and you just want to feel special, that’s just a guess.

Aegael.6938:

Is there something wrong with that?

You seem to be complaining about people complaining because you’re salty and you just want to feel special, that’s just a guess.

Salty? It’s not me making begging threads about buffing a cheap toy into real alternative to unique class ability just because he can buy it. Also this topic sounds extremely funny when being defended by same people who valorously attacking any thread with alternative ways to acquire raid loot.

I can’t tell if rednik is trolling or simply has very poor reading comprehension.
Portals are, as mentioned multiple times now, not unique to mesmer as they are craftable and Mesmer brings a lot more which makes it completely unreasonable to think that a lower cd would mean not taking a mesmer. How is this so hard to understand?

Moreover, the portal cannot be used in wvw or pvp and has limited use in pve as well. 30 min cd is absurd for what it does. 5 min and its useable while not even getting close to a mesmer.

Chris McSwag.4683:

I can’t tell if rednik is trolling or simply has very poor reading comprehension.
Portals are, as mentioned multiple times now, not unique to mesmer as they are craftable and Mesmer brings a lot more which makes it completely unreasonable to think that a lower cd would mean not taking a mesmer. How is this so hard to understand?

Moreover, the portal cannot be used in wvw or pvp and has limited use in pve as well. 30 min cd is absurd for what it does. 5 min and its useable while not even getting close to a mesmer.

I’m ok with portals. I’m not ok with cheap portals. Is that hard to understand? Toy must be a toy.

its still a toy at 5 min cd, just that you consistently fail to realise it.

Cyninja.2954:

I mean I’d imediately buy all the permanent merchant, hair contract, etc. items at 1/10th their price. Waiting 30 minute to reuse would be not an issue.

If you read my earlier post or do the math yourself, you will realize that the white mantle portal device (well actually the ghostly infusion as that is what the price is based on) is already in line with the ratio of other permanent items compared to their single use counterparts with the exceptions of banker and hairstylist. The permanent bank access is much more expensive and the permanent hair stylist is much cheaper in comparison. The thing that is is not in line is its functionality.
And it is great that you would not mind a 30m cool down but literally everyone who has bought the mystic forge and/or the trading post access to make money (gambling or converting karma into crafting materials) would mind a 30 minute cool down as that would entirely remove the purpose of the items for them.

Chris McSwag.4683:

its still a toy at 5 min cd, just that you consistently fail to realise it.

With 5 min cd its no longer a toy but a VERY cheap alternative to Watchwork Portal. So no. And I’m glad that general Anet policy about such things is same as mine.

It is 450 gold that is 100 (~9gold per crafting process, output of 2 portals each) watch work portals and in line with most other permanent items and twice as much as an other popular toy (executioner’s axe). Even your argument about the price is wrong.

im starting to wonder how many of the people that complain about it dont even raid.

Erzian.5218:

It is 450 gold that is 100 (~9gold per crafting process, output of 2 portals each) watch work portals and in line with most other permanent items and twice as much as an other popular toy (executioner’s axe). Even your argument about the price is wrong.

In line, you said?

Rednik.3809:

Erzian.5218:

It is 450 gold that is 100 (~9gold per crafting process, output of 2 portals each) watch work portals and in line with most other permanent items and twice as much as an other popular toy (executioner’s axe). Even your argument about the price is wrong.

In line, you said?

im pretty sure if you could sell it people would pay that price for it so yes.

perry.9645:

im pretty sure if you could sell it people would pay that price for it so yes.

Sure, then make another, tradable version and add it to drop with same 0.000001% chance as permanent contracts. And ofc don’t add it to vendor.

Permanent to temporary item cost ratio:

White Mantle Portal Device -105

Permanent Bank Contract – 339

Permanent Black Lion Merchant Contract – 115

Endless Repair Contract – 105

Permanent Hair Stylist Contract – 52

Permanent Trading Post Express Contract – 98

Interestingly, the WM portal device is literally at the median value for permanent item to temporary item cost ratio. As a note, it’s also more difficult to obtain, given that those other items are all obtainable with only gold, which can be earned from literally anything in the game, whereas the WM Portal Device can only be obtained with raid currency by those who have beaten the 3rd boss of the 3rd raid wing.

As such, it’s already comparable in cost to all of these items listed above. I’m not sure why it would then make sense to take actions to further increase its cost to justify it having less of a cooldown, given that it’s already in the same league as these permanent items which share the same cooldown as their temporary variants (and as such, by this reasoning, the cooldown ought to be a mere 90 seconds, not the 5 minutes suggested in the OP).

Furthermore, the Executioner’s Axe Toy is much cheaper than the White Mantle Portal Device, and has a mere 3 second cooldown on the #2 skill, which is a skill that can singlehandedly outclass the combined movement skills of any class in the entire game.

Given this information, is it really too much to ask for a 5 minute cooldown on this item? Really, is it?

Zui.9245:

Permanent to temporary item cost ratio:

White Mantle Portal Device -105

Permanent Bank Contract – 339

Permanent Black Lion Merchant Contract – 115

Endless Repair Contract – 105

Permanent Hair Stylist Contract – 52

Permanent Trading Post Express Contract – 98

Interestingly, the WM portal device is literally at the median value for permanent item to temporary item cost ratio. As a note, it’s also more difficult to obtain, given that those other items are all obtainable with only gold, which can be earned from literally anything in the game, whereas the WM Portal Device can only be obtained with raid currency by those who have beaten the 3rd boss of the 3rd raid wing.

As such, it’s already comparable in cost to all of these items listed above. I’m not sure why it would then make sense to take actions to further increase its cost to justify it having less of a cooldown, given that it’s already in the same league as these permanent items which share the same cooldown as their temporary variants (and as such, by this reasoning, the cooldown ought to be a mere 90 seconds, not the 5 minutes suggested in the OP).

Furthermore, the Executioner’s Axe Toy is much cheaper than the White Mantle Portal Device, and has a mere 3 second cooldown on the #2 skill, which is a skill that can singlehandedly outclass the combined movement skills of any class in the entire game.

Given this information, is it really too much to ask for a 5 minute cooldown on this item? Really, is it?

Executioner’s Axe Toy itself i said already is arguably bad gemstore item also being said a one of two item which are actually pay to win in gw2 history .we dont need to add more .

and all classes have movement skills or teleport. its so general . Executioner’s Axe Toy feels more like an addition op stuff to class .

and honestly WMPD price is stupidly high .so lower the price , refund your money . it will be fine for everyone .

instead you kept trying to get one of most powerful class skill packed in your bag with a reasonable cooldown . ofc anet intended to make this item with a unreasonable cd , check fire ele powder cd and ask yourslef you believe its not intended.

for real , after anet nerfed feather /powder/med kit and so on . do you really think they would magically forget what they did ?

Have you ever made an informed argument? 30min cd on ogre pet whistle as well as fire elemental powder was solely for server performance reason NOT balance. It had absolutely nothing to do with them being too powerful or mirroring a class skill.

The decision to throw cooldowns on them were for server performance/stability as the patch notes said, not for balance. Period. This was something that was long overdue.

Think of it this way: Between the embers and whistle, those items were effectively doubling/tripling the amount of players active in a map.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/arenanet-tracker/topic/290447-consumables-nerf/
2nd post.
If the portal device has its cd for server performance reasons, too, ok so be it. That would be a reasonable argument but they should reduce the price then.

Rednik.3809:

In line, you said?

Yes, read my post or Zuis post. It is simple math. Try not insisting on something that has been disproved by mathematics already. How can you be so stubborn and immune to evidence. Stop being so ignorant.

ArenaNet decrease the cooldown of this portal so i can actually make it usable on dungeons and fractals.

5 minutes would be perfect, 10 minutes would be ok, 30 minutes is a NO.

and NO, NO ONE WOULD REPLACE A MESMER FOR SOMEONE WITH A 5 MINUTES CD PORTAL.

And for beginning of history, those said people who did use a mesmer for portals on fractals and dungeons would never accept a mesmer without specialization nowadays, just saying…..

BTW i made a topic before about the same topic, but did not attract the same attention…. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/White-Mantle-Portal-Device-cooldown/first#post6208152