Guild Wars 2

Erzian.5218:

Have you ever made an informed argument? 30min cd on ogre pet whistle as well as fire elemental powder was solely for server performance reason NOT balance.

The decision to throw cooldowns on them were for server performance/stability as the patch notes said, not for balance. Period. This was something that was long overdue.

Think of it this way: Between the embers and whistle, those items were effectively doubling/tripling the amount of players active in a map.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/arenanet-tracker/topic/290447-consumables-nerf/
2nd post.

please dig a reason why anet nerfed harpy feather for you . both of us and anet know why they did nerf . it wont change the reason no matter what they or you or me wrote anything here .

and im pretty sure anet won’t care about this thread .therefore they won’t change cd.

they put it on 30 mins for reasons not randomly .

do you see my point , im only here to offer the reason behind their decision and in this case its not hard to figure out .i’m not here to stop anet change this . coz i know they wont .

you and few people here who actually want a change to its cd . you guys have a thing to worry : you have to convince anet . not me .

musu.9205:

please dig a reason why anet nerfed harpy feather for you . both of us and anet know why they did nerf . it wont change the reason no matter what they or you or me wrote anything here .

and im pretty sure anet won’t care about this thread .therefore they won’t change cd.

they put it on 30 mins for reasons not randomly .

do you see my point , im only here to offer the reason behind their decision and in this case its not hard to figure out .i’m not here to stop anet change this . coz i know they wont .

you and few people here who actually want a change to its cd . you guys have a thing to worry : you have to convince anet . not me .

They did something bad, i hope posting here will make they realize and lower the cooldown.

“dig a reason why anet nerfed harpy feather for you” I mean, free perma stealth for everybody? One person with harpy feathers was able to ress everybody in a party!?!?!?

“you have to convince anet not me” we are listening about your arguments and answering because those can be arenaNet arguments too, idc about convincing you.

Chris McSwag.4683:

its still a toy at 5 min cd, just that you consistently fail to realise it.

It’s a very powerful toy at 5 minute cooldown.

Zui.9245:

Permanent to temporary item cost ratio:

White Mantle Portal Device -105

Permanent Bank Contract – 339

Permanent Black Lion Merchant Contract – 115

Endless Repair Contract – 105

Permanent Hair Stylist Contract – 52

Permanent Trading Post Express Contract – 98

-snip rest-

While the WMPD falls in the middle group price wise, it would be by far the most useful of all the permanent items.

Not factoring for the executioner’s axe. As was already mentioned, that item is considered combined with watchwork pick a straight up pay-to-win item.

Erzian.5218:

Have you ever made an informed argument? 30min cd on ogre pet whistle as well as fire elemental powder was solely for server performance reason NOT balance.

The decision to throw cooldowns on them were for server performance/stability as the patch notes said, not for balance. Period. This was something that was long overdue.

Think of it this way: Between the embers and whistle, those items were effectively doubling/tripling the amount of players active in a map.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/arenanet-tracker/topic/290447-consumables-nerf/
2nd post.

Rednik.3809:

In line, you said?

Yes, read my post or Zuis post. It is simple math. Try not insisting on something that has been disproved by mathematics already. How can you be so stubborn and immune to evidence.

If you bring in official quote, please don’t cherry pick the statements you like. The very next 2 posts in that thread go into a lot more detail for nerfing the items and it’s not just that one line. It’s dishonest to take part quotes and omit the rest especially if it changes the context and/or meaning.

- the change was made mostly to address the Fire Elemental Powder and the Ogre Pet Whistle since they cause the most problems. Other items were modified because they had the potential to become problems.
– these items are not the same as pets that the player professions can summon, for these reasons:
– the items had no cooldown, meaning that the summoned creatures are effectively invincible and can always be alive assuming the player has more items
– there’s no limit on how many different items you can use at the same time. Meaning you can have both the elemental and the ogre pet simultaneously
– unfortunately, the creatures were not specifically designed to the constraints we have on pets in general. They are way more costly than your average ranger pet. In fact, they are exactly the same as the versions you fight in the open world which is what makes them so powerful.
– regardless of balance, the change was definitely made to address the various performance concerns that arise from allowing unlimited uses of the item by everyone in a map. Both the client and server are affected by having the extra creatures around.
– the need for the change was identified months ago. Many members of the team were adamantly against making the change because they knew it would destroy a popular strategy.

Given all of that information, and the introduction of two brand-new world events, something had to be done. Ultimately we decided with the cooldown approach because:

- we did not want to debuff/rebalance the potency of the creature resulting from a single use
– we did not want to completely eliminate the use of the item in large events
– it was not possible to clearly and cleanly message why the item would not be usable in large events or when there are too many nearby

The end result was a hefty cooldown, which honestly could have ended up being a lot longer.

On cooldown length:

The 30 minute length is based on the effective duration of the items (5 minutes). Compared with the Glyph of Lesser Elementals (Elemenatlist utility skill, 1 minute duration), 5 minutes is quite long.
It’s possible that we could go to something more like 1 minute duration, 5 minute cooldown, but that’s getting back into re-balancing the item. With a re-balance we stand to raise equal or more controversy. Currently you can at least continue using the item to whatever end it was used before, albeit in a more limited fashion. Had we changed it completely, you may have been able to use the item more frequently but no longer in the same capacity as before.

On dungeons/instance:

Yes there is a cumulative cost of having tons of these in instances. Without getting into too many technical details, 150 people in 30 dungeons using this item is just as bad as 150 people in 1 public map. Even if you have not experienced skill lag personally, there are constraints and instances do hit them.
It is therefore completely unfair to assign blame to players who enjoy the large open world events. The events represent drastic instances of the problem, but the change was made to address the entirety of the issues that are being caused across the game.

On consumable design, in general:

It’s not really my place to comment too widely on this aspect of the game. I do know for certain it would not be consistent with some of GW2’s fundamental design pillars to create an environment where everyone is expected to have on-hand some elaborate set of consumables needing to be laboriously maintained and activated. This is why, for example, you are allowed only one food buff at a time.

So no, it was not only a pure performance issue.

and i explained to you guys the reasons why portal is a sensitive topic for mes :

1.its one of mes unique skills . maybe most unique one beside f5. many mes main play mes for its uniqueness among mmorpg for reasons .
i know raiders or hardcore mmo players usually just run meta class for its usefulness . and feeling special for single one class is pointless for some of you . but its surely a thing for many rpg players . not to mention gw2 is a causal game to begin with . understanding both sides will let you see the reason easier . if you really feel entitled, lets say most non-mmo players like darksoul or monster hunter players would just laugh hard at your hard-earning stuff .

2. due to the fact anet tried and is still trying to balance all game mode tgt . core mesmer has been hold back from buffs for its powerful tool portal in pvp .
yes the gimmick tool : portal was what exactly cost mes high price in 3 years before hot . and it still does now . and ofc giving portal to every other class in pve won’t fix mes balance issue at all as long as anet trying to balance 3 modes at once.

3.imagine you could only have time to play single class as your main and that class was/is support role and have to sacrifice your personal dps/skill slots for teammates .
now someone wants take away one of your specific role tho its less useful for you now .
if you feel bad for that , i wont call you greedy. and in most mmo games , really go around ,people tend to be nicer toward support or tank roles for reasons there like in wow .

(note i play all classes with full ascended gears before you say anything . i just understand this )

for dev standpoint ,

they don’t want to repeat the same mistake with eotn . too much powerful tools and consumables in pve . also packing something useful in bag for fractal and dungeon is a soft gear check by playerbase and adding unintended grind or forced preparation .

well anet did introduce many soft gear check with hot . but they didnt intend to do this with consumables since the nerf they did in the past .

Cyninja.2954:

u are allowed only one food buff at a time.

So no, it was not only a pure performance issue.[/quote]

Yes, now read the two posts that you quoted again. It is still about performance and that they decided to not re-balance them. The “balance” changes that they made were literally do prevent/stop abuse but nobody in here is asking for a 0 cd portal or stronger version of portal, people asking for something that is still considerably worse than mesmer portal and has more cd. Once again your argument is inappropriate and completely useless.
People make arguments for a 5minute cd version and then you come and make arguments against a 0 cd cool down version. What is the point of that? It doesn’t make sense.

harold.3526:

musu.9205:

please dig a reason why anet nerfed harpy feather for you . both of us and anet know why they did nerf . it wont change the reason no matter what they or you or me wrote anything here .

and im pretty sure anet won’t care about this thread .therefore they won’t change cd.

they put it on 30 mins for reasons not randomly .

do you see my point , im only here to offer the reason behind their decision and in this case its not hard to figure out .i’m not here to stop anet change this . coz i know they wont .

you and few people here who actually want a change to its cd . you guys have a thing to worry : you have to convince anet . not me .

They did something bad, i hope posting here will make they realize and lower the cooldown.

“dig a reason why anet nerfed harpy feather for you” I mean, free perma stealth for everybody? One person with harpy feathers was able to ress everybody in a party!?!?!?

“you have to convince anet not me” we are listening about your arguments and answering because those can be arenaNet arguments too, idc about convincing you.

“dig a reason why anet nerfed harpy feather for you” I mean, free perma stealth for everybody? One person with harpy feathers was able to ress everybody in a party!?!?!?

so harpy feather did what a thief could do and anet nerfed it .why you now suddenly think some tool does same as mes portal and being useful in fractal /dungeon /open world is acceptable by anet ?

and all of us think the price for portal device is too high . not worth it . yep i do think the price is kittened up .

but tell me why as i suggest lower the price and refund everyone who has it ,but you dont want anet to do this since its obvious easy solution for both sides.

now your true purpose is easy to see . no false argument please.

musu.9205:

so harpy feather did what a thief could do and anet nerfed it .why you now suddenly think some tool does same as mes portal and being useful in fractal /dungeon /open world is acceptable by anet ?

No they did what thief could do IN BETTER but that is not what people are asking for here. You are making arguments against something that nobody argues for, why?
Yes, I am also against murder, but how is relevant for this thread?

Erzian.5218:

Yes, now read the two posts that you quoted again. It is still about performance and that they decided to not re-balance them. The “balance” changes that they made were literally do prevent/stop abuse but nobody in here is asking for a 0 cd portal or stronger version of portal, people asking for something that is still considerably worse than mesmer portal and has more cd. Once again your argument is inappropriate and completely useless.

the so called abuse is what a thief can do from very start of gw2 . and i didnt see anet nerfed thief stealth for this abuse . but they nerfed a tool which basically replace a thief for stealth .now guess again why they put 30 mins on portal device .

play your game not ui not bags .

what u guys asked-5mins cd for each fractal run .

“people asking for something that is still considerably worse than mesmer portal and has more cd. "

let’s say you are not the only one who plays this game and fractal in the world .
all we know there are only enough once or twice encounter in single fractal where you can use portal and being highly effective .its not like mesmers use their portal off cd every time for some "fun“ in fractal .

Erzian.5218:

musu.9205:

so harpy feather did what a thief could do and anet nerfed it .why you now suddenly think some tool does same as mes portal and being useful in fractal /dungeon /open world is acceptable by anet ?

No they did what thief could do IN BETTER but that is not what people are asking for here. You are making arguments against something that nobody argues for, why?
Yes, I am also against murder, but how is relevant for this thread?

thief aoe stealth for entire team to skip content . ash kit / feather single player stealth but easier to keep stealth up .

i would say it was arguably same good as thief stealth abilities .

about mes portal .
mes doesnt use portal whne its off cd .
you know that i know that .
and we all know where to use a portal in each fractal to be effective . 3-5mins cd is just pointless even 10 mins cd it still can be used at least twice in a whole daily fractal run .
and that 5mins isnt going to take your skill slot anyway .

im not sure if you really think a 5mins portal is a weak mes portal in fractal while mes portal takes one skill slot . WMDP allows players use it freely.

and ill repeat :

why lowering the price is not a option for you guys ?

let me answer it for you:

you guys want an indirectly powerup item added to your character .

that’s why you don’t take the lower price as an option which won’t kitten up the class balance and won’t get "greedy " mes come here to argue with you .

you see the potential in this big gem now so you try everything you could do to get what you want .

in real world , we call it greedy.

What incredibly important niche do the high-cooldown people imagine this item replacing? I hear the fire and brimstone, but no concrete examples.

A five or ten minute cooldown seems reasonable to me.

Absurdo.8309:

What incredibly important niche do the high-cooldown people imagine this item replacing? I hear the fire and brimstone, but no concrete examples.

A five or ten minute cooldown seems reasonable to me.

This is an excellent question.

As a Mesmer main and the OP of this thread, I can’t think of a single example where my suggested changes would cause people to stop bringing Mesmer in any situation. Since the concern seems to focus around obsoleting Mesmer via mimicry of one of its “unique” skills (ignoring the fact that’s false because Watchwork Portal Devices and Experimental Teleportation Guns exist), it’d be really great to hear of cases where what the proponents of this are claiming is the case might actually be the case.

Forum bug. Squish.

Harpy feathers did give perma stealth for anyone at any moment at 0 cost, for thief be able to give perma stealth first of all you need to be away from any mobs, and if people are not blasting you need to trait in shadow arts.

No one on PVE asks specifically for mesmer because of portal specifically anymore, things that people ask for mesmers only are helping on JP and other OPEN WORLD PVE things like this, so actually having a lower cooldown on portal would actually help the community because of more people being able to help others.]

So there is no reason for not reducing the watchwork CD, specially when 30 minutes make the item almost obsolete.

Erzian.5218:

Erzian.5218:

Cyninja.2954:

u are allowed only one food buff at a time.

So no, it was not only a pure performance issue.

Yes, now read the two posts that you quoted again. It is still about performance and that they decided to not re-balance them. The “balance” changes that they made were literally do prevent/stop abuse but nobody in here is asking for a 0 cd portal or stronger version of portal, people asking for something that is still considerably worse than mesmer portal and has more cd. Once again your argument is inappropriate and completely useless.
People make arguments for a 5minute cd version and then you come and make arguments against a 0 cd cool down version. What is the point of that? It doesn’t make sense.

I never said it was not for performance issues, I merely corrected your point that that was the sole reason. Big difference. The way you phrased your point you clearly tried to conveig performance was the only reason when it was one of the reasons. Changing things to prevent abuse is a very different point than changing things due to performance.

As a matter of fact it’s one of the main points against a shorter cooldown in this case.

Also I’m not arguing against a 0 cd version but everything below 30 minute cooldown being to short.

Absurdo.8309:

Absurdo.8309:

What incredibly important niche do the high-cooldown people imagine this item replacing? I hear the fire and brimstone, but no concrete examples.

A five or ten minute cooldown seems reasonable to me.

This is an excellent question.

As a Mesmer main and the OP of this thread, I can’t think of a single example where my suggested changes would cause people to stop bringing Mesmer in any situation. Since the concern seems to focus around obsoleting Mesmer via mimicry of one of its “unique” skills (ignoring the fact that’s false because Watchwork Portal Devices and Experimental Teleportation Guns exist), it’d be really great to hear of cases where what the proponents of this are claiming is the case might actually be the case.

Multiple reasons were given besides taking away uniqueness of a skill from mesmer. The best counterarguments so far were:

- I disagree, it wouldn’t affect balance
- map design won’t be affected by portal
- portal isn’t that useful to begin with

or variations of these. All of those are subjective and obviously viewed differently by each individual.

harold.3526:

No one on PVE asks specifically for mesmer because of portal specifically anymore, things that people ask for mesmers only are helping on JP and other OPEN WORLD PVE things like this, so actually having a lower cooldown on portal would actually help the community because of more people being able to help others.]

So there is no reason for not reducing the watchwork CD, specially when 30 minutes make the item almost obsolete.

Yes, more skipping of content made easy. Great idea.

Zui.9245:

Absurdo.8309:

What incredibly important niche do the high-cooldown people imagine this item replacing? I hear the fire and brimstone, but no concrete examples.

A five or ten minute cooldown seems reasonable to me.

This is an excellent question.

As a Mesmer main and the OP of this thread, I can’t think of a single example where my suggested changes would cause people to stop bringing Mesmer in any situation. Since the concern seems to focus around obsoleting Mesmer via mimicry of one of its “unique” skills (ignoring the fact that’s false because Watchwork Portal Devices and Experimental Teleportation Guns exist), it’d be really great to hear of cases where what the proponents of this are claiming is the case might actually be the case.

i wrote a freaking long list of reasons and you ignored them all .only notice word uniqueness and nothing else . not sure troll or just low reading skill.

you dont care about pvp balance i got it . but you dont even dare to say this out or you failed to see the balance problem here? note : not long ago in pvp forum there was a post saying mes should not do anything else since they have portal .and anet doing balance for all game mode at once.

you dont care about rpg element. and just trying to use Watchwork Portal Devices and Experimental Teleportation Guns to argue . first one no one uses . and if people could use it with reasonable cost you will hear complaints too . second one is not even close to what portal does in most cases . shouldnt we give everyone war banner cos Seraph Banner exists too ?nope

and lets not really take the server performance as the reason why anet nerfed fire ele powder. somehow 30mins cd is a standard for anet now .deal with it ,

also " I can’t think of a single example where my suggested changes would cause people to stop bringing Mesmer in any situation. "

your logic here is flawed . what you said cant be the reason to change the cd .
a random nerf to mes dps wont stop people to bring mes in any situation in pve ,too . but do we need to do that ? nope.

and further more there are core mes players still(f2p or just leveling or role playing ) .

you can take lower price as a fix and use this device for some fun .

5 mins is almost max effective use in most fractals . lets not lie to ourselves on this one .its not like anet cant watch what you do in a fractal .and they do have an idea of what you are asking for .

im honest with you . myself would be happy to have a portal device in my bag when i need a portal in fractal . so i can save my slot for my max quickness uptime.
but it will kitten up more things .

now can you see why i suggest anet to lower the price and refund you guys who bought it already ?

Cyninja.2954:

Erzian.5218:

Erzian.5218:

Cyninja.2954:

u are allowed only one food buff at a time.

So no, it was not only a pure performance issue.

Yes, now read the two posts that you quoted again. It is still about performance and that they decided to not re-balance them. The “balance” changes that they made were literally do prevent/stop abuse but nobody in here is asking for a 0 cd portal or stronger version of portal, people asking for something that is still considerably worse than mesmer portal and has more cd. Once again your argument is inappropriate and completely useless.
People make arguments for a 5minute cd version and then you come and make arguments against a 0 cd cool down version. What is the point of that? It doesn’t make sense.

I never said it was not for performance issues, I merely corrected your point that that was the sole reason. Big difference. The way you phrased your point you clearly tried to conveig performance was the only reason when it was one of the reasons. Changing things to prevent abuse is a very different point than changing things due to performance.

As a matter of fact it’s one of the main points against a shorter cooldown in this case.

Also I’m not arguing against a 0 cd version but everything below 30 minute cooldown being to short.

Absurdo.8309:

Absurdo.8309:

What incredibly important niche do the high-cooldown people imagine this item replacing? I hear the fire and brimstone, but no concrete examples.

A five or ten minute cooldown seems reasonable to me.

This is an excellent question.

As a Mesmer main and the OP of this thread, I can’t think of a single example where my suggested changes would cause people to stop bringing Mesmer in any situation. Since the concern seems to focus around obsoleting Mesmer via mimicry of one of its “unique” skills (ignoring the fact that’s false because Watchwork Portal Devices and Experimental Teleportation Guns exist), it’d be really great to hear of cases where what the proponents of this are claiming is the case might actually be the case.

Multiple reasons were given besides taking away uniqueness of a skill from mesmer. The best counterarguments so far were:

- I disagree, it wouldn’t affect balance
- map design won’t be affected by portal
- portal isn’t that useful to begin with

or variations of these. All of those are subjective and obviously viewed differently by each individual.

i feel like arguing with kids who hides their purpose with the sentences like: "with 5 mins cd i could use this for each fractal run " ——the true purpose of this thread .or “anet nerfed fire ele powder for server performance .” things they didnt/dont believe

the quality of this “discussion/arugement”is pretty low .

yes in real life people lie , but please , people wont lie if the lie couldnt cheat anyone.

A long list of incorrect or irrelevant arguments and claims, doesn’t prove anything. Perhaps you are the troll? If you really want me to repeat all the non-sense I can make a list of the “arguments” on your long list and repeat why they are incorrect :^)
So far you have literally brought up a total of ZERO reasons why 30minute is appropriate, if you consider the items (and their prices) that are currently in the game as well as the current state of balance of the different classes and their roles.
Most of the things don’t even have anything to do with personal opinion but are simply facts/maths.
edit: “the quality of this “discussion/arugement”is pretty low .” Yes, it is because you ignore blatant evidence and basic math.

btw to the op .

if you didn’t realize that in this argument our positions are not equal.
you are the one who needs to offer the reasons behind the cd reduce suggestion .
so far ,all you said is to make it useful .and why not .
anet’s intention is not making this tool too useful for you and many others .
so by adding a 30mins cd they already have different opinion with you .

the chance anet listens to you and change this is highly unlikely . it not a bug , its not a game breaking stuff and its related to rewards.(not only raid). you can guess now .

all i have to say is two words “no need”as im not the one who has to prove the reasons.

when the current cd doesnt cause any trouble at all beside you feel price is high which can be changed much easier, anet doesnt change cd.

this logic doesnt apply backward .

for a company it would never be “changes will do no harms so we do changes.” you know it costs real money to do so (and in this case it does do harms ) .

so best solution for anet is deleting the item and refund you .
second would be lower the price and refund you .
and given anets history ,they will keep it same drop rate from boss. so prepare even they lower the price you will get this item from boss with same drop rate as now .

Erzian.5218:

A long list of incorrect or irrelevant arguments and claims, doesn’t prove anything. Perhaps you are the troll? If you really want me to repeat all the non-sense I can make a list of the “arguments” on your long list and repeat why they are incorrect :^)
So far you have literally brought up a total of ZERO reasons why 30minute is appropriate, if you consider the items (and their prices) that are currently in the game as well as the current state of balance of the different classes and their roles.
Most of the things don’t even have anything to do with personal opinion but are simply facts/maths.
edit: “the quality of this “discussion/arugement”is pretty low .” Yes, it is because you ignore blatant evidence and basic math.

You have a pretty interesting position, “you arguments are not arguments, now here is my opinion and prove it wrong”. We all can play this game. How about this device being sold for 50g to everyone then? Right in LA. I heard so much arguments why it will not affect balance and will not make anyone less happy, so this should be even better, right?
50g for pocket portal for everyone!
Or maybe you will bring “a dedication” argument? Then lets give it to everyone for free with world completion!

Erzian.5218:

A long list of incorrect or irrelevant arguments and claims, doesn’t prove anything. Perhaps you are the troll? If you really want me to repeat all the non-sense I can make a list of the “arguments” on your long list and repeat why they are incorrect :^)
So far you have literally brought up a total of ZERO reasons why 30minute is appropriate, if you consider the items (and their prices) that are currently in the game as well as the current state of balance of the different classes and their roles.
Most of the things don’t even have anything to do with personal opinion but are simply facts/maths.
edit: “the quality of this “discussion/arugement”is pretty low .” Yes, it is because you ignore blatant evidence and basic math.

which are incorrect and irrelevant ?

fire ele powder 30mins cd hard fact
portal affected game balance hard fact
people play rpg for rpg element ——do i need to explain the concept of rpg to you ?
and anet did nerf all tool which are arguable replacement of some class skills like feather harpy . hard fact .

said times , anet didnt make this item to be appropriated to begin with . and i did suggest they lower the price which you totally ignored anyway .

anet never intended to let you guys have easy 5mins portal so you can use it in each fractal .
the 30 mins is exactly what they thought of to stop you use it for each fractal .you really think they dont know that , the effective way to use portal in each fractal ?

and I do not think anet should balance all game mode at once . but right now they do so . for us , no reason to make balance worse before anet change this situation .

They implemented a item that is basically worthless and useless at a super high price because of the broken cooldown, we are asking to ArenaNet fix this, IDC how, turning it in a useful and worthwhile item would be awesome.

harold.3526:

They implemented a item that is basically worthless and useless at a super high price because of the broken cooldown, we are asking to ArenaNet fix this, IDC how, turning it in a useful and worthwhile item would be awesome.

solution:

LOWER THE PRICE
LOWER THE PRICE
LOWER THE PRICE
LOWER THE PRICE
LOWER THE PRICE.

simple easy no conflict .

let me say it again :
no , you guys dont want an item worth its price . you guys want an item as upgrade to your character power in this case indirect power . (but skipping ability as portal is a almost direct power up in gw2 )

and you guys want to keep it as raid special reward . since lvling a mes is too easy cant have right to feel special but raid somehow grants you right to feel special .

its simple you see the potential in this big gem lying in your bag now . why take refund when you can have much more .

off the topic but think about this way .you maybe truly hardcore best players in gw2 , but outside gw2 , the more gimmick stuff the game gives to you , the more joke of your hardcoreness .

Lower the price will not make the item usefull.

I think unifying the cooldowns between the WMPD and the WWPD makes a lot of sense. I’ll make sure this gets forwarded to the team.

It’s a vanity item. It’s nice to have and you can do some cool stuff with it, but it won’t give you a big advantage. It’s not supposed to be usefull. I see a lot of comparisons to the infusions, but no one complains that those don’t give better stats for their price.

But on 5 minutes cooldown, the item would be so broken strong, I would buy one for my mesmer…

Molch.2078:

But on 5 minutes cooldown, the item would be so broken strong, I would buy one for my mesmer…

You already can and have been able to for years.

harold.3526:

Lower the price will not make the item usefull.

a portal is still a portal . how a portal is not useful when you wanna help a player with jp .not many jp you need to portal twice in a raw .
how a portal is not useful for DS run hp or something else ?

from reddit:

–]joe_chester[SnM] 3
Me needs dis! No seriously, this is a really nice gizmo item, I dont mind the long CD since I can just WP to VB really quick after I used it to recharge.. I do not need any skins from Forsaken Thicket, so I guess I will just spend my Magnetide shards on this (and on generic asc equipment afterwards)

but no

you guys dont give a kitten about open world pve .
and all people who think its not useful are people who wants to use it for each fractal run .

i said many times . 5mins portal = max effective use in fractal . only one or two fractal you could have twice use for portal .

at this point , say it . you want to speed up your fractal runs .
and ofc anet knew and they didnt give it to you .

your parents dont give you drug in normal days , they wont give it to for Xmas . same logic here.

musu.9205:

solution:

LOWER THE PRICE
LOWER THE PRICE
LOWER THE PRICE
LOWER THE PRICE
LOWER THE PRICE.

simple easy no conflict .

No matter how many times you wish to say this, or how much you want it to be a simple solution, that doesn’t solve the problem with the item in question.

It currently has a 30 minute cooldown. No item/consumable should have a cooldown this high. 5/10 minute is perfectly appropriate.

If your argument is that this is for server stability purposes, i’d like to point out that the number of these even being purchased/used is incredibly low as it is a novelty item. The amount generated per week from killing Xera is lower than those purchased. So they are far from as rampant as the easily obtained Ogre Pet whistle, or Ele Fire Powder.

If you’re going to argue balance, the only place it can be used is PvE/Dungeons/Fractal of which players hardly use portal in two of those locations and the third is intentionally imbalanced.

If you’re going to argue “unique class skill” i’ll point you to the watchwork device and teleportation gun. As well as any of the other consumables that mimic class skills.

So far none of this has caused other classes to miraculously be deleted from your character select screen nor character creation…..

So i’m still failing to see why the immense disdain for a reduction to the cooldown from the 2-3 people here ?

TexZero.7910:

musu.9205:

solution:

LOWER THE PRICE
LOWER THE PRICE
LOWER THE PRICE
LOWER THE PRICE
LOWER THE PRICE.

simple easy no conflict .

No matter how many times you wish to say this, or how much you want it to be a simple solution, that doesn’t solve the problem with the item in question.

It currently has a 30 minute cooldown. No item/consumable should have a cooldown this high. 5/10 minute is perfectly appropriate.

If your argument is that this is for server stability purposes, i’d like to point out that the number of these even being purchased/used is incredibly low as it is a novelty item. The amount generated per week from killing Xera is lower than those purchased. So they are far from as rampant as the easily obtained Ogre Pet whistle, or Ele Fire Powder.

If you’re going to argue balance, the only place it can be used is PvE/Dungeons/Fractal of which players hardly use portal in two of those locations and the third is intentionally imbalanced.

If you’re going to argue “unique class skill” i’ll point you to the watchwork device and teleportation gun. As well as any of the other consumables that mimic class skills.

So far none of this has caused other classes to miraculously be deleted from your character select screen nor character creation…..

So i’m still failing to see why the immense disdain for a reduction to the cooldown from the 2-3 people here ?

none of this you said here are the reasons i listed previously .and i already explained all your argument .server stability is what i laughed at .

reading is too hard ?

Rising Dusk.2408:

Molch.2078:

But on 5 minutes cooldown, the item would be so broken strong, I would buy one for my mesmer…

You already can and have been able to for years.

If you don’t see the difference between paying 400g once and 10g per use, I really cannot help you people…

Molch.2078:

If you don’t see the difference between paying 400g once and 10g per use, I really cannot help you people…

You’ll have to show me where I can convert 400 gold to 1000 magnetite shards at will. That’s a really neat trick!

TexZero.7910:

musu.9205:

solution:

LOWER THE PRICE
LOWER THE PRICE
LOWER THE PRICE
LOWER THE PRICE
LOWER THE PRICE.

simple easy no conflict .

It currently has a 30 minute cooldown. No item/consumable should have a cooldown this high. 5/10 minute is perfectly appropriate.

may i ask why no item/consumable should not have a cooldwon this high? u cant even explain this clearly .

and btw anet already disagreed with you as they already made fire ele powder 30 mins cd.

suddenly not the standard has to change but old standard became broken bad ?
tell me its nothing to do with that you feel entitled since its a raid reward?

Rising Dusk.2408:

Molch.2078:

If you don’t see the difference between paying 400g once and 10g per use, I really cannot help you people…

You’ll have to show me where I can convert 400 gold to 1000 magnetite shards at will. That’s a really neat trick!

Oh so you’re not even trying to argue now? Thats sad

Rising Dusk.2408:

Molch.2078:

If you don’t see the difference between paying 400g once and 10g per use, I really cannot help you people…

You’ll have to show me where I can convert 400 gold to 1000 magnetite shards at will. That’s a really neat trick!

you can buy raid run with gold already .

musu.9205:

you can buy raid run with gold already .

400 gold you will get not even 50 shards.

harold.3526:

musu.9205:

you can buy raid run with gold already .

400 gold you will get not even 50 shards.

you havent answered my question yet .

and the point Molch.2078 made was to give the value of this item in current price as gold .so we can see the usage/price ratio from two items .

but somehow Rising Dusk.2408: felt this point has something to do with the ability to exchange gold to magnetites.
this is why Molch.2078 said Oh so you’re not even trying to argue now? Thats sad

and i pointed out you can actually exchange the gold into magnetites at will anyway .

nothing of those things are related to the original point: usage/price ratio from two items .

like i said earlier the quality of discussion /argument in this thread is pretty low or pathetic . since you guys either refuse to read at all or distract from main topic to something like engi or thief viablity .

and you still dont dare to admit your idea of being useful = max portal effectiveness in fractal runs even most of you indirectly said this already .

musu.9205:

may i ask why no item/consumable should not have a cooldwon this high? u cant even explain this clearly .

and btw anet already disagreed with you as they already made fire ele powder 30 mins cd.

suddenly not the standard has to change but old standard became broken bad ?
tell me its nothing to do with that you feel entitled since its a raid reward?

Anet disagreed because of the server side impact it had at large scale world events where people were using multiple of those consumables to generate pets. Do you not see the difference ?

Now then before i get to the baseless attack on raid rewards. No item in the game should have a cooldown that exceeds 10 minutes for a very simple reason. It’s a game, the items are there to provide a novelty / niche addition.

Now then since you seem to really be showing your colors by attacking this for being a raid item, need we point out for the 10th time that the Teleportation Rifle exist in game for far cheaper and can be used on roughly a 15 second cooldown ?

Where the item comes from is ultimately irrelevant and any semblance of a claim for balance reason from you guys is really laughable. PvE has been and will always be intentionally imbalanced.

Molch.2078:

Oh so you’re not even trying to argue now? Thats sad

Sorry to disappoint! I have no intention of arguing, I just enjoy being sassy.

I am going to present the issue to ANet via my communication channels with a recommendation based on general community feedback and then let them decide. I, personally, feel that it wouldn’t harm anyone and would only serve to benefit players to synchronize the cooldowns for a prestigious raid reward.

why 10 mins where you get that number ,its your lucky number to win the argument magically ?
devs disagree with you . and many devs in mmo market disagree with you .
should we take a look at wow consumable and see how much stuff has more than 10mins cd there?

also why you want to make portal 5mins cd ?

simple its said by all of you in this thread you want to use it for each fractal run . this is exactly your words .dont even try to deny this .this is why its perferable with 5mins cooldown .

i personally don’t have any hate on raid at all . you dont see me posting anything related to raid at all but some for pvp balance , some for jokes about mes .
everyone told you portal gun isnt not close to mes portal . stop trying really
watchwork one has a huge cost so not practical otherwise people will complain too . stop try this too .

and whenever anet nerfed some “fun” things and with lame reasons . i remember its usually so called hardcore players being the first ones who laughed at anet and ranted on forum . why you guys are suddenly buying anets reason now ?

“Where the item comes from is ultimately irrelevant and any semblance of a claim for balance reason from you guys is really laughable. PvE has been and will always be intentionally imbalanced.”

your reading skill even cant understand the reason i listed above : not even once i said balance reason was for pve balance only

balance reason :anet balance pve wvw and pvp at once .
in pvp and wvw portal is super op ,anet has to take that into account , but now if anet makes portal usable by every class in pve. it will cause a huge trouble balancing game if balance isnt already troubled enough .

and this item even with current price doesnt harm everyone coz its reward from your own choice .RNG loot is just rng anyway . so why change it at all ?

its you who have to offer much stronger reasons rather than your "30mins isnt useful "which is your own opinion .many can use and will use it with 30 mins cd for jp etc .
its you begging anet to change its cd as this item in your own eyes being broken useless.

I explained why for some mes mains portal is sensitive topic . i was honest with you guys and listed the reasons .

instead of paying respect to other players with different opinions . you guys simply saying shouldnt this shouldnt that without any proper reasons. what you are? the ultimate law makers in mmorpg world because you run raid in a causal mmo ?

which is so laughable .

I can’t even understand half of what you wrote anymore.

If you wouldn’t mind cleaning it up to make it legible, and comprehensible then we can continue your discussion.

Rednik.3809:

You have a pretty interesting position, “you arguments are not arguments, now here is my opinion and prove it wrong”.

Except that I and others have provided evidence (an official source, math and facts, which you can check by simply logging onto the game and looking them up or on wiki. There is a difference between a false claim and an argument, which is backed up by official sources, maths and can be checked by literally everyone who is playing the game and owns 20 copper to unlock the watch work portal device recipe. It has absolutely nothing to do with personal opinion or taste.

musu.9205:

which are incorrect and irrelevant ?

fire ele powder 30mins cd hard fact
portal affected game balance hard fact
people play rpg for rpg element ——do i need to explain the concept of rpg to you ?
and anet did nerf all tool which are arguable replacement of some class skills like feather harpy . hard fact .

said times , anet didnt make this item to be appropriated to begin with . and i did suggest they lower the price which you totally ignored anyway .

anet never intended to let you guys have easy 5mins portal so you can use it in each fractal .
the 30 mins is exactly what they thought of to stop you use it for each fractal .you really think they dont know that , the effective way to use portal in each fractal ?

and I do not think anet should balance all game mode at once . but right now they do so . for us , no reason to make balance worse before anet change this situation .

An again: as others have already pointed out a portal device with 90 seconds cool down is ALREADY AVAILABLE and the cost of the permanent one would be in line with other single use items and their respective permanent counterparts.
30minutes CD were added because of server performance, I even provided you with a link to an official post stating it.
I can only do so much; I gave you the results of the needed calculations, linked an official response from arenanet employees, explaining the addition of a high cd on other items. Other people have provided you with the maths as well, have explained to you why your harpy feather argument is wrong and pointed out countless times that there is already a better portal device in the game, which does not have any harmful impact on the game.
Absolutely nobody can comprehend it for you, we can point it out. If you still cannot see it because you are too stubborn or simply not intelligent enough to make use of official sources and a calculator, we cannot help you.
If you don’t want the item to be improved for whatever reason that is totally fine, but if you continuously make false arguments people will point it out.

Erzian.5218:

Rednik.3809:

You have a pretty interesting position, “you arguments are not arguments, now here is my opinion and prove it wrong”.

Except that I and others have provided evidence (an official source, math and facts, which you can check by simply logging onto the game and looking them up or on wiki. There is a difference between a false claim and an argument, which is backed up by official sources, maths and can be checked by literally everyone who is playing the game and owns 20 copper to unlock the watch work portal device recipe. It has absolutely nothing to do with personal opinion or taste.

musu.9205:

which are incorrect and irrelevant ?

fire ele powder 30mins cd hard fact
portal affected game balance hard fact
people play rpg for rpg element ——do i need to explain the concept of rpg to you ?
and anet did nerf all tool which are arguable replacement of some class skills like feather harpy . hard fact .

said times , anet didnt make this item to be appropriated to begin with . and i did suggest they lower the price which you totally ignored anyway .

anet never intended to let you guys have easy 5mins portal so you can use it in each fractal .
the 30 mins is exactly what they thought of to stop you use it for each fractal .you really think they dont know that , the effective way to use portal in each fractal ?

and I do not think anet should balance all game mode at once . but right now they do so . for us , no reason to make balance worse before anet change this situation .

An again: as others have already pointed out a portal device with 90 seconds cool down is ALREADY AVAILABLE and the cost of the permanent one would be in line with other single use items and their respective permanent counterparts.
30minutes CD were added because of server performance, I even provided you with a link to an official post stating it.
I can only do so much; I gave you the results of the needed calculations, linked an official response from arenanet employees, explaining the addition of a high cd on other items. Other people have provided you with the maths as well, have explained to you why your harpy feather argument is wrong and pointed out countless times that there is already a better portal device in the game, which does not have any harmful impact on the game.
Absolutely nobody can comprehend it for you, we can point it out. If you still cannot see it because you are too stubborn or simply not intelligent enough to make use of official sources and a calculator, we cannot help you.
If you don’t want the item to be improved for whatever reason that is totally fine, but if you continuously make false arguments people will point it out.

we arguing arging arguing

and pages later
you : i and others proved you are wrong
me : proved by what

harpy feather nerfed
you guys :itwas nerfed cos it was op and being abused
me: almost equal to thief stealth since thief can aoe stealth .and anet didnt nerf thief stealth ability
youafter half page later) we proved you are wong
me: proved by what ? where are the evidence ?

At least lets say we have different views of usefulness. first .
second we have different opinions on how much useful an item can be if its function is same as one of most powerful unique skill from a class.

but all of us agree on one thing . if its with 5mins cd we will use it for every fractal daily run .

difference is that i think the usage both of us imagined is what anet intended to prevent .and i think its good this way while you think otherwise .

musu.9205:

but all of us agree on one thing . if its with 5mins cd we will use it for every fractal daily run .

difference is that i think the usage both of us imagined is what anet intended to prevent and i think its good this way while you think otherwise .

!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

what anet intended to prevent

!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

No, this is what YOU think ArenaNet intended to prevent, what i think is that ArenaNet had to release the raid ASAP so they just did trow a high random cooldown while they think in a actual number.

I’ll just say one thing, it could be something fun to use while doing open world with friends, hanging in ciy or guild hall, but instead it’s a boring 30 minutes uneeded cooldown item which will never be used.

Tl;dt could be fun, but it’s not

harold.3526:

musu.9205:

but all of us agree on one thing . if its with 5mins cd we will use it for every fractal daily run .

difference is that i think the usage both of us imagined is what anet intended to prevent and i think its good this way while you think otherwise .

!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

what anet intended to prevent

!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

No, this is what YOU think ArenaNet intended to prevent, what i think is that ArenaNet had to release the raid ASAP so they just did trow a high random cooldown while they think in a actual number.

i said that was difference of our understanding for anet intention .i said exactly what you are pointing out .
i wrote that with words"i think ".and “you think otherwise”
again , reading is too hard .

im fine with you think it’s a random number .

i have reasons behind my “i think” :many consumable for different reasons have 30 mins coold down like watchwork tonic usually the reasons being people abuse that item or server performance as anet was saying .

you have reason :ArenaNet had to release the raid ASAP. well personally i dont find its convincing .but no judge here.since anet did put random number before.

only judgement i made now is about your reading skill .

musu.9205:

me: proved by what ? where are the evidence ?

link to an official post, math, information taken from the gw2 client. With a little bit of effort you can easily check and see why you are wrong but you are too busy being ignorant. The evidence is a) in this thread b) in the gw2 game. Perhaps you should take off your blindfold of ignorance.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Sorry to disappoint! I have no intention of arguing, I just enjoy being sassy.

I am going to present the issue to ANet via my communication channels with a recommendation based on general community feedback and then let them decide. I, personally, feel that it wouldn’t harm anyone and would only serve to benefit players to synchronize the cooldowns for a prestigious raid reward.

Based on what community feedback? Like, general player community who basically getting big “hahaha kitten you, we feel ourselves elite because we have raid currency, and we want to get signature class abilities just because?”