Guild Wars 2

Tired of my group dragging Mossman into the water. Doesn’t matter what group i get, they all wanna glitch. Fix please.

Just give him 1 underwater skill “transform shark” which has Arah shark skills with like 1/3 the cooldown on the rush. Mhm, do it.

The sad thing is, Mossman has underwater skills. He just doesn’t use them in Swamp.

Go do Underwater on a lvl 31.

fruitycutey.9057:

Tired of my group dragging Mossman into the water. Doesn’t matter what group i get, they all wanna glitch. Fix please.

If they insist on doing him underwater it’s likely you would have faced a wipefest/roadblock if they attempted him on land. Your group is that bad and you merely dodged a bullet by glitching it.

You know, sorta how like Lupicus would be without the wall exploit or reflect damage. Fun with a competent group, or an extreme annoyance having to carry PuGs.

Too hard to fix the glitch. Easier patch: “There are now invulnerable champion sharks in the water on the way towards the Mossman path.”

I second this. I too tire of many PuGs trying to water mossman all the time. It’s like every single pug group “Let’s water moss” or “Pulling?”.
It’s usually the bad/unexp PUGs that ask for the water pull though, most exp teams i’m with just burn him on land.

Just throw a few invisible walls in there, doesn’t matter where. Surely that will solve the problem :^)

Seconded. Very much so. This is not only stupid but also unnecessary. I’m tired of leaving groups or arguing to fight properly.

Luckily we can do him underwater, never did it any other way since this was possible. Easy kills is always good.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Luckily we can do him underwater, never did it any other way since this was possible. Easy kills is always good.

Easy kills breeds laziness.

Especially when its obviously not supposed to happen.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Luckily we can do him underwater, never did it any other way since this was possible. Easy kills is always good.

It never dawned on you that maybe this was not the intended way? What will you do when this gets fixed? Arenanet has been fixing Mossman-exploits adamantly since the very beginning.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Luckily we can do him underwater, never did it any other way since this was possible. Easy kills is always good.

Aren’t you the same person that complained on the SE p2 record just posted for not using ingame sounds/music because it’s not playing with the intended sound effects?

So it’s a tragedy for you and your immersion is ruined with music from outside sources, but no big deal for you to bug bosses to succeed? That has no impact on your level of enjoyment… ?

I would expect based off of the last thread that you would be all for playing the game “as intended.” Guess not.

A set of real underwater skills seems that he’d actually use seems like a good solution.

Purple Miku.7032:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Luckily we can do him underwater, never did it any other way since this was possible. Easy kills is always good.

Aren’t you the same person that complained on the SE p2 record just posted for not using ingame sounds/music because it’s not playing with the intended sound effects?

So it’s a tragedy for you and your immersion is ruined with music from outside sources, but no big deal for you to bug bosses to succeed? That has no impact on your level of enjoyment… ?

I would expect based off of the last thread that you would be all for playing the game “as intended.” Guess not.

Yes, that’s true and you have a point here. I finished all content 2.5 years ago the ‘intended way’ Besides, I did not know that this was a bug or exploit. I just though it was the newest way to kill him. Like it is done with all bosses, right?

But let me explain something that bugs me, I don’t understand here something: On one side you try to play the dungeons the fastest possible way in form of stacking (which I do myself btw) which is clearly not intended from the creators since a lot of boss mechanics of the game are made invalid/easier/negated etc but is possible due to bad dungeon design, this is valid. On the other hand it is not intended to kill Mossman underwater and that’s “unathletic”. What would you say if Mossman would’ve been killable underwater from the beginning? Is that okay?

Mossman WAS killed from the water, under his house, under some steps, from trees, from his roof and i’ve probably missed some fancy ideas. The point is, you cannot just stack on a boss and spam all your damage skills and hope he dies before you do… There is way more to it than that though it seems like they do nothing but.

Meanwhile glitching mossy underwater is actually really comfy, no danger of him hitting you back.

So making things easier by learning mechanics and weaknesses of bosses is as old as gaming itself while exploiting glitches has never been considered very “athletic”.

Zenith.7301:

fruitycutey.9057:

Tired of my group dragging Mossman into the water. Doesn’t matter what group i get, they all wanna glitch. Fix please.

If they insist on doing him underwater it’s likely you would have faced a wipefest/roadblock if they attempted him on land. Your group is that bad and you merely dodged a bullet by glitching it.

You know, sorta how like Lupicus would be without the wall exploit or reflect damage. Fun with a competent group, or an extreme annoyance having to carry PuGs.

I’d like to say as someone who regularly runs fractals and arah with a dedicated group we glitch not because we suck but because its simply easier and faster in the case of lupi. Why try if you can accomplish the same thing in less time or do something more fun (i.e. alt tab on youtube)? But that being said it would be nice if anet fixed anything related to dungeons or fractals, however it wont happen till HoT.

Its about playing both well and efficient. Bugging Mossman is nothing else than saying “I am too bad to do it the normal way.”

Embrace The Bold.7619:

Zenith.7301:

fruitycutey.9057:

Tired of my group dragging Mossman into the water. Doesn’t matter what group i get, they all wanna glitch. Fix please.

If they insist on doing him underwater it’s likely you would have faced a wipefest/roadblock if they attempted him on land. Your group is that bad and you merely dodged a bullet by glitching it.

You know, sorta how like Lupicus would be without the wall exploit or reflect damage. Fun with a competent group, or an extreme annoyance having to carry PuGs.

I’d like to say as someone who regularly runs fractals and arah with a dedicated group we glitch not because we suck but because its simply easier and faster in the case of lupi. Why try if you can accomplish the same thing in less time or do something more fun (i.e. alt tab on youtube)? But that being said it would be nice if anet fixed anything related to dungeons or fractals, however it wont happen till HoT.

Fighting Mossman normally is faster than fighting it underwater if you know the fight.
If a PUG team is insisting on fighting Mossman underwater, its a pretty good indicator that later bosses like Grawl Shaman or Archdiviner aren’t going to go well.

Just give him Sorge’s aboveground skillset while he’s underwater. Then we could have challenge-mode Mossman kills.

How about some brambles that block your way back in the water when you get in range of the Mossman? Something like what Alphard in Arah P2 has.

I do understand that people might not like the idea of killing Mossman like a sitting duck underwater, but honestly…auto-attacking him and getting some coffee in the meantime is okay with me.

I think we should rework dungeon/fractals rewards so that there would be an NPC somewhere in LA that you could go to every day to claim your rewards (tokens, gold, some champ bags) without having to do the dungeons themselves.

This would save time for other activities like world bosses and playing with the wardrobe/dyes. It would also solve a lot of problems like: zerker meta, elitists in dungeons, stacking or not, having to learn encounters.

Embrace The Bold.7619:

I’d like to say as someone who regularly runs fractals and arah with a dedicated group we glitch not because we suck but because its simply easier and faster in the case of lupi. Why try if you can accomplish the same thing in less time or do something more fun (i.e. alt tab on youtube)? But that being said it would be nice if anet fixed anything related to dungeons or fractals, however it wont happen till HoT.

There is no excuse for 1shotting Lupi or bugging mossman in the water other than you can’t do it without it. They’re both slower, both unintended, neither are fun and as fracture.9754 posted above if you wanna watch youtube then go watch youtube…

ProtoGunner.4953:

Yes, that’s true and you have a point here. I finished all content 2.5 years ago the ‘intended way’ Besides, I did not know that this was a bug or exploit. I just though it was the newest way to kill him. Like it is done with all bosses, right?

And we’ve all heard the same songs 2.5 years ago too, so we don’t care about it and would rather play our own music in our videos instead.

I also don’t believe you were oblivious to it being a bug considering he doesn’t attack you and just stays still while you can autoattack him to death. If you actually played for as long as you claim to have then you’re just BSing to try to make yourself seem less hypocritical. There’s no way you will convince anyone on this forum that you thought that completely disabling a boss was a legit way to fight him.

Well, but he attacked us, not often, but we got damaged. I don’t do fractals often, probably once in a month or even once in two months. So, we were in a guild group and no one told me this was bugged or whatever.

About the music: I come from the 90ies console generation. Music was a very important part of the games. We even had limited edition albums imported from Japan to listen to the music since the internet was in its very juvenile state. But time changes.

First of all, I agree with the OP that pulling Mossman underwater should be fixed. Preferably in a way that doesn’t involve underwater-combat at all.

With that said, I’ll join in on the fighting bosses part:

Purple Miku.7032:

I also don’t believe you were oblivious to it being a bug considering he doesn’t attack you and just stays still while you can autoattack him to death. If you actually played for as long as you claim to have then you’re just BSing to try to make yourself seem less hypocritical. There’s no way you will convince anyone on this forum that you thought that completely disabling a boss was a legit way to fight him.

Glad you mentioned hypocritical. Let me redirect you to the second part of ProtoGunner’s post, which you choose to ignore – intentionally or not – but which I think raises a very good point. I will quote it again for easier reading:

ProtoGunner.4953:

On one side you try to play the dungeons the fastest possible way in form of stacking (which I do myself btw) which is clearly not intended from the creators since a lot of boss mechanics of the game are made invalid/easier/negated etc but is possible due to bad dungeon design, this is valid. On the other hand it is not intended to kill Mossman underwater and that’s “unathletic”.

(Ab)using LoS and map objects in general has been part of clearing dungeons since their existence. Highly prominent ones such as stacking FGS/bear-form/WW-charges on top of each others have only “recently” been abandoned due to changes in game mechanics. Surely you would not try to convince anyone on this forum that players returned to fighting/DF-ing stuff in the open because they care so much about fair-play?

Generally, bursting down bosses as fast as possible and “glitching” Mossman have one thing in common: It circumvents boss mechanics. In the first case, by shortening the fights to a (ridiculous) minimum through skill-abuse and therefore enabling glass-cannon builds to work where they otherwise would not (as well). Yes, I said skill-abuse because recent changes to them clearly indicate that the behaviour was not intended. In the second case, by tricking the boss AI.

Why you would be so quick to point at one case and not the other escapes me. One has been heavily nerfed, the other not yet. Former abusers pointing at current ones is what strikes me as truly hypocritical.

If you LoS bosses to a corner they still use their skills on you… Mossman is like a sitting duck or a beached whale.

I recall that working really well for the spider queen. Generally speaking though, they may still use skills, but not necessarily to their full effect.

LoS was just a minor aspect of my post though.

Satenia.9025:

I recall that working really well for the spider queen. Generally speaking though, they may still use skills, but not necessarily to their full effect.

LoS was just a minor aspect of my post though.

They fixed the spider queen a long time ago exactly because of this.

fracture.9754:

You seem to be mixing up game mechanics with exploits.

LoS isn’t a frequent thing in proper dungeon clearing anyway and is used rarely. I am sorry to hear you haven’t found a proper group to clear dungeons with, yet. Even then, stacking and LoS-ing is high risk high reward scenario, in some cases avoided by the use of CC/blinds, in other simply taking the damage. Pulling Mossman underwater means taking no damage whatsoever. There is a very distinct difference there.

I can not even fathom the idea of comparing DPSing down mobs to exploits, so I do not feel inclined on wasting my time explaining such basics.

No I don’t mix it up. Had you spent more time actually reading my post instead of limiting yourself to personal attacks, you might have figured that one out. Since we both seem to agree on not wasting each others time, don’t mind me if I simply report such posts in the future. Thank you.

@ serenke: I’m aware that it has been corrected. Just like I’m sure the Mossman-issue eventually will.

Satenia.9025:

I recall that working really well for the spider queen. Generally speaking though, they may still use skills, but not necessarily to their full effect.

LoS was just a minor aspect of my post though.

That was intended. The spider queen previously only used the poison on ranged enemies. Just like many bosses have range checks for certain attacks. The weakness auto attack and the immob spit both still hit in the corner. And this could still wipe groups if they didnt dodge. There was no complete disabling of the boss. Because the spider queen didnt use the poison in the corner she would auto attack more frequently. And if you were immobed from the spit you couldnt dodge it. Which meant you got weakness on you so less damage and you would take some pretty nasty damage from the attack aswell. It wasnt as faceroll as many people made it seem. If it seemed like it in a pug then you got carried.

Anyway for complete unrestricted records then yeah it shouldnt matter. Most people dont want to abuse the game that far though. And in fact i dont know a single boss fight that is faster when you completely break it with a safespot. So its pointless even in an unrestricted record.

Satenia.9025:

First of all, I agree with the OP that pulling Mossman underwater should be fixed. Preferably in a way that doesn’t involve underwater-combat at all.

With that said, I’ll join in on the fighting bosses part:

Purple Miku.7032:

I also don’t believe you were oblivious to it being a bug considering he doesn’t attack you and just stays still while you can autoattack him to death. If you actually played for as long as you claim to have then you’re just BSing to try to make yourself seem less hypocritical. There’s no way you will convince anyone on this forum that you thought that completely disabling a boss was a legit way to fight him.

Glad you mentioned hypocritical. Let me redirect you to the second part of ProtoGunner’s post, which you choose to ignore – intentionally or not – but which I think raises a very good point. I will quote it again for easier reading:

ProtoGunner.4953:

On one side you try to play the dungeons the fastest possible way in form of stacking (which I do myself btw) which is clearly not intended from the creators since a lot of boss mechanics of the game are made invalid/easier/negated etc but is possible due to bad dungeon design, this is valid. On the other hand it is not intended to kill Mossman underwater and that’s “unathletic”.

(Ab)using LoS and map objects in general has been part of clearing dungeons since their existence. Highly prominent ones such as stacking FGS/bear-form/WW-charges on top of each others have only “recently” been abandoned due to changes in game mechanics. Surely you would not try to convince anyone on this forum that players returned to fighting/DF-ing stuff in the open because they care so much about fair-play?

Generally, bursting down bosses as fast as possible and “glitching” Mossman have one thing in common: It circumvents boss mechanics. In the first case, by shortening the fights to a (ridiculous) minimum through skill-abuse and therefore enabling glass-cannon builds to work where they otherwise would not (as well). Yes, I said skill-abuse because recent changes to them clearly indicate that the behaviour was not intended. In the second case, by tricking the boss AI.

Why you would be so quick to point at one case and not the other escapes me. One has been heavily nerfed, the other not yet. Former abusers pointing at current ones is what strikes me as truly hypocritical.

Wait what?!

The only sense I can make out of this is you hate the icebow everything, anything meta.
And ok, ok, Ill amit I dont like the whole icebow 5,4 strip defiance repeat untill enemy is dead although still this is an extreme, nothing else is in that teir.
Besides we are talking about 3-4 ele teams that do this kind of damage. Its an extreme thats gona be changed by the new defiance.

So anyway.. I need to stop, step back and think at which angle to see your point of view?

High damage is the same as exploiting.
I can see the truely extreme ele partys with icebow although nothing else proves this statement.

Idk where Im going with this post, just please help me understand your side of all this

Sarah

Sarahfull.4930:

Wait what?!

The only sense I can make out of this is you hate the icebow everything, anything meta.
And ok, ok, Ill amit I dont like the whole icebow 5,4 strip defiance repeat untill enemy is dead although still this is an extreme, nothing else is in that teir.
Besides we are talking about 3-4 ele teams that do this kind of damage. Its an extreme thats gona be changed by the new defiance.

So anyway.. I need to stop, step back and think at which angle to see your point of view?

High damage is the same as exploiting.
I can see the truely extreme ele partys with icebow although nothing else proves this statement.

Idk where Im going with this post, just please help me understand your side of all this

Sarah

Gladly. I am referring to the pre-FGS-nerf (and similar skills) way of handling bosses. Compared the rather static dungeon/fractal content, this change happened relatively recently (September 2014 feature pack).

I am not saying that high damage is exploiting – actually I wasn’t talking about exploiting at all – I am saying that TOO high damage (aka unintended by the devs) circumvents and therefore trivializes encounters.

To elaborate on a popular boss like Lupi:
If you abuse certain skills to skip a phase, you make the encounter less difficult. There are those people arguing that pulling that kind of damage off is a display of skill. Personally, I disagree with this line of thinking as it boils down to routine (pulling a skill-rotation off in a static encounter). As you are skipping a phase, you never get to deal with its challenges.

Now apply this approach to various boss encounters with the unnerfed FGS:
If you melt a boss within a handful seconds, the content gets trivialized. Some mechanics may never even trigger. Your two dodges and any potential skills become more powerful as recharges/cooldowns matter less. I don’t recall people dismissing those strategies. But the fact that Anet nerfed it is really all the proof you need that this wasn’t intended.

Since then, strategies have changed, I’ve already mentioned this in my original post. Personally, I think for the better. Nevertheless, no matter if you abuse damage-skills or if you bug the AI, you trivialize the content. Why one should be better or more accepted than the other is something I don’t quite see.

Embrace The Bold.7619:

I’d like to say as someone who regularly runs fractals and arah with a dedicated group we glitch not because we suck but because its simply easier and faster in the case of lupi.

No, it’s easier and faster to glitch lupi because you suck.

@Satenia.9025
Ahh I see. I know next to nothing about arah, fractals is my home although I believe I know where your coming from. I just assumed that the legendary sharman’s bubble phase was hp base and not cd based. So with the extreme they might be able to have only one bubble phase verus a team who are above agervage team and with everyone having chill food might just keep the fight to two phases if everyone plays perfectly.

I wasnt sure if you were attackig the stats themself or just other things, so Im glade thats cleared up.

:s Im trying to think of what to say and how to say it. Although Im gona sound like a smart kitten :/

Making things easier for a phase is? Um.. can, should be nornal and does need balance..
an example I can think of is bloomhunger: all of his attacks can be reflected, so say a mesmer and gaurdian can chain their reflects together so the other three party memebers could just do their attack rotation on a dummy basicly trivializing the fight.

If this is abusing reflects and gets change its kinda like punishing people for being creative. Hah, even that will be thrown back at me! Its finding that balance being creative to finish a tricky boss and um.. making the fight easy

There is one more thing though and I dont mean to be to rude, remember there is a difference between guild wars rules and personal rules. As much as I dont like the icebow anything & everything, the game code allows it where I believe with this underwater mossman, somehow agro’ing him and pulling far into the water makes him ignore his leash and go back home and thats another balance in the mix here.

Sarah

If it wasn’t hard enough for everyone to checkpoint and stay ooc for 1sec, Mossman had to come back from the dead and make things worse

If you cant see a distinction between pulling a boss into terrain where he literally does nothing and you can go make a coffee while letting your char 11111, and pulling a boss into a corner so that everyone stays close and the boss does his melee attacks then…there’s really no point arguing. This is the definition of safespotting, I don’t know how this is even a question. If you want to argue semantics based a tactic that was nerfed 8 months ago then, ok I guess. I’m not sure what the point is. At the end of the day this is still a bug, and it’s still faster to fight him on land unless you are with bad pugs. I hope it gets addressed because I use to love pugging fractals, but facing verbal abuse and being kicked from parties I create when I don’t want to exploit has become a regular occurrence.

Most pugs I’ve been in, don’t care either way. If one person is set on doing it on land, the group usually just goes along with it. I don’t see why everyone is getting so heated over this. Mossman has been a boss that people liked using safespots on whenever they became widely known. When it’s fixed, people will do it normally again until the next lazy way to do it is found and made public. Pugs usually take the easiest/failsafe route, not the fastest.

It’s obviously something that should be fixed, but on the other hand the lashing out at pugs that “suck and can’t defeat him on land” is grossly exaggerated as well, I think.

Anyways, LFG is always there to make your own party with your own rules^^

Read my post: “being kicked from parties I create” <— yes, stating in the LFG that I don’t want to bug him, still being vote kicked. Being told I was lashing out when I simply say, “can we not exploit him”. I’m glad you’ve had a better experience, I wish I could say the same. :P

Robyn be assertive. Make it so that they will feel bad about themselves for even suggesting such a thing. They won’t kick you then, at the very most they will just whine until you kick them out first. Source: myself and what happens when I pug ^^

Lol well, I don’t know if would help in the case I was thinking of (the kick was almost instantaneous, like they had it planned or something) but I should in general be more aggressive in starting my own vote kicks if they aren’t respecting my lfg message. I just hate that pugging feels like an uphill battle a lot more then it use to, to do something as simple as fight without completely disabling the boss. I don’t hate the people that bug him, I just hate the environment the bug has created.

I don’t hate people in general but I hate being around people that bug either of the bosses. It’s just embarrassing imo.

Come back to EU and I will pug with you and you will never see noobs bugging them again :>

Satenia.9025:

fracture.9754:

You seem to be mixing up game mechanics with exploits.

LoS isn’t a frequent thing in proper dungeon clearing anyway and is used rarely. I am sorry to hear you haven’t found a proper group to clear dungeons with, yet. Even then, stacking and LoS-ing is high risk high reward scenario, in some cases avoided by the use of CC/blinds, in other simply taking the damage. Pulling Mossman underwater means taking no damage whatsoever. There is a very distinct difference there.

I can not even fathom the idea of comparing DPSing down mobs to exploits, so I do not feel inclined on wasting my time explaining such basics.

No I don’t mix it up. Had you spent more time actually reading my post instead of limiting yourself to personal attacks, you might have figured that one out. Since we both seem to agree on not wasting each others time, don’t mind me if I simply report such posts in the future. Thank you.

@ serenke: I’m aware that it has been corrected. Just like I’m sure the Mossman-issue eventually will.

Wow, I didn’t know you could report people for disagreeing with you! This opens up a whole new world for me, thank you :^)

For both those who complain about “elites” skipping mobs and those who complain of “noobs” glitching bosses:

Make your own LFG stating the rules you wish your party to play by. There’s no need to argue with, belittle, or grief your party.

Lord Kuru.3685:

For both those who complain about “elites” skipping mobs and those who complain of “noobs” glitching bosses:

Make your own LFG stating the rules you wish your party to play by. There’s no need to argue with, belittle, or grief your party.

Better yet, get a dungeon group or guild that runs similar tactics to yours and never have to worry about this sort of mismatch ever again

Lord Kuru.3685:

For both those who complain about “elites” skipping mobs and those who complain of “noobs” glitching bosses:

Make your own LFG stating the rules you wish your party to play by. There’s no need to argue with, belittle, or grief your party.

Argue with, grief? No. Belittle… yes. If you cannot complete content without exploiting, then be ready to take some heat.

drowze.3709:

Pugs usually take the easiest/failsafe route, not the fastest.

Agreed as this has been my experience for the most part. Every now-and-then somebody will get the wild hair.

They should fix him and other fractal glitches when they fix the rewarding system that gives players (me included), or shall i better say it, doesn’t give players proper rewards especially on higher lvl fractals. I’m tired of not getting not even a ring on the end of the lvl 50.

I’ll stop glitching when the rewards become more then 3 blues and a green and a gold on the end of the 4 dungeon lenght run.

Oxidia.8103:

I’ll stop glitching when the rewards become more then 3 blues and a green and a gold on the end of the 4 dungeon lenght run.

That has to be one of the worst justifications for exploiting I’ve heard.

If you need to exploit mossman you don’t even deserve the reward, even if it is terrible.

Oxidia.8103:

They should fix him and other fractal glitches when they fix the rewarding system that gives players (me included), or shall i better say it, doesn’t give players proper rewards especially on higher lvl fractals. I’m tired of not getting not even a ring on the end of the lvl 50.

I’ll stop glitching when the rewards become more then 3 blues and a green and a gold on the end of the 4 dungeon lenght run.

It’s taking as long as 4 dungeon runs maybe because you’re exploiting? But then again, I have yet to encounter people that actually know how to do the bosses without bugging them when they regularly do things like this.

As Element said above… probably one of the worst excuses I’ve heard for it.

serenke.4806:

Lord Kuru.3685:

For both those who complain about “elites” skipping mobs and those who complain of “noobs” glitching bosses:

Make your own LFG stating the rules you wish your party to play by. There’s no need to argue with, belittle, or grief your party.

Argue with, grief? No. Belittle… yes. If you cannot complete content without exploiting, then be ready to take some heat.

Look at how many of the top soloers defend glitching Belka so she remains stationary.