Guild Wars 2

STABILIZING DIFFICULTY, TIME, AND FUN!

Volcanic Fractal:

This Fractal is considered too hard by many players, and requires specific utilities that not every class offers.

Add a second type of mob that spawns when the Shaman enters its shield called Lavalings, similar to the gravelings from Ascalonian Catacombs. (Perhaps even have them spawn from burrows until these are destroyed, to give Elementalists’ Frost Bow some utility in Fractals.)

This mob will be a small, fast melee attacker that does less damage than the current Elemental spawn and inflicts burning. It has a higher chance of spawning the lower the Fractal level.

Whenever the Shaman enters its shield, you have a 33% chance of getting the Lavalings, the Elementals, or a mixture of both.

This change is intended to reduce the need for Guardians and Mesmers to complete this Fractal, as reflects will not be quite as useful. This also allows groups who wipe on this fight multiple times the chance to get a lucky roll where they get Lavalings multiple times in a row.
****
Dredge Fractal:

This is the Fractal that needs the most work. It is simply too long and tedious. It is not that it is necessarily super hard, but it adds an undue burden to players who wanted to do a Fractal run that didn’t consume an undue amount of their time.

To the left side of the initial starting puzzle, add a mini-jumping puzzle that allow players to skip the beginning puzzle as they were able to before the bug fix. Make this puzzle challenging enough that some groups will choose to do it the normal way.

Completely remove middle section with bombs and turrets. Completing the puzzle will move the players right on to the mid-boss.

End-boss health reduced by 25%.

Another important note is that the number of waves that spawn on the Dredge Midboss is simply insane. Perhaps there’s a glitch going on there, like with the Southsun Skelk. Nerf the amount of mobs that spawn by half, at least, on higher difficulties.

Cliffside Fractal:

Blowing wind and bomb stairs removed. This fractal simply takes too long and the jumping puzzles only end up being a layer of tediousness—having to sit there while two of your party members make their way up four different times. Alternatively, remove the very first boss encounter and simply allows players to start with the hammer. Perhaps both of these changes.

Tweak End-boss to be more interesting. It is a very lame fight. Perhaps consider adding Acolyte spawns with low health, but that can only be damaged by the hammer. One player, rotating, will be on hammer duty killing Acolytes/smashing the seal while the rest of the group handles the boss. Saving the hammer from the first fight would allow two players to kill Acolytes to make this go faster. In exchange, require players to both 1) Destroy the Seal, and 2) Kill the Boss.
****
All Other Fractals:

Mostly the other Fractals are far more even with one another in terms of time and difficulty. Some could still use tweaks, such as lower boss health in exchange for the boss hitting slightly harder. In fact, I think you could probably stand to make some of the other Fractals more challenging in exchange for these tweaks, as you have been doing recently with the changes to Snowblind, for example.

Jellyfish Beast could use an HP reduction. Perhaps lower its health by 25%, but add a high-damage low-health mob that attacks at 66% health and 33% health— this mob needs to be kited and DPSed down. Something to keep us awake.

Mini-bosses on Harpy Fractal also need an HP reduction.

Thanks for reading, please critique and provide feedback and additional suggestions!

Edit:

Link to Reddit thread:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1fvcim/fixing_the_rewards_time_and_fun_fractals_of_the/

Link to Suggestions Forum Thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Fix-Rewards-Time-Fun-Fractals-of-the-Mist/first#post2172794

Every time someone makes suggestions for improvements on fotm I get excited and happy, then I am sad and depressed because I know A-Net will completely ignore them.

I think the Hrouda guy is working on living story stuff atm too. Be nice to see some fotm love but i think it’s more likely we will get a new dungeon before that happens. Nice suggestions though, would be good to get rid of all the rings gathering dust on the mule.

Funniest part is: almost every single Fractal’s boss chest already has a chance of dropping lodestones and cores: Mossman = Onyx, Jellyfish = Molten (I kitten you not), Snowblind = Corrupted, Dredge = Destroyer… I haven’t gotten any from Ascalon, Grawl or Harpy though, it’s possible they drop some too.

The not so funny part about that is that their RNG chances are so low, apparently some people didn’t even know they dropped.

I personally agree with almost everything though. Most of these threads are usually “QQ, content is too hard for me” threads, but you actually came up with a lot of stuff that would work really well. No removal of necessary difficulty, just tediousness reduction, decent rewards etc.

Although, I would be happier if they made rings salvageable for Shards/Globs and/or Crystalline/Incandescent dust rather than forgeable.

+11111111

This needs to happen.

So long as the “difficulty” mechanic is agony, I don’t give a skritt..
If it were fun and had real skill challenge, I would do it, even it had zero loot or rewards.

Suggestions for real difficulty have been made in several threads.

lorazcyk.8927:

So long as the “difficulty” mechanic is agony, I don’t give a skritt..
If it were fun and had real skill challenge, I would do it, even it had zero loot or rewards.

Suggestions for real difficulty have been made in several threads.

I’d like to stay focused on the main points, but I just wanted to point out that until Fractal level 40, Agony does not increase difficulty.

Assuming you get all Ascended gear available at a given tier, you can avoid getting hit by more than 1% agony until level 40.

Assuming you get your Ascended Amulet and Trinkets before Fractal level 10, you can never get hit by more than 1% agony ever.

For rewards suggestions:

1) Sounds good
2) Sounds good
3) No.
4) Sounds good
5) No way!

FotM is not really a net loss as I do make money. It is definitely not as good as CoF though.

Grawl Fractal:

This will not change anything. People will still bring guardians since there is a 66% chance they will need reflect. Besides, people use it for the shaman’s agony attack for the most part.

Dredge:

That shortcut was an exploit and the devs did not consider people would do that. Just because it was there before does not mean that something similar should be now. Doing that part the legit way is not difficult if you use planning and coordination. The HP of the elemental/dredge is fine. Just use coordination to keep the burning effect on it.

Cliffside:

That’s part of the fractal and not difficult to do. Just DON’T rush. Problem solved. People is higher levels should not be having issues with this.

I don’t see why anything needs to be nerfed to the point you can faceroll through it.

Ayrilana.1396:

For rewards suggestions:

1) Sounds good
2) Sounds good
3) No.
4) Sounds good
5) No way!

FotM is not really a net loss as I do make money. It is definitely not as good as CoF though.

Grawl Fractal:

This will not change anything. People will still bring guardians since there is a 66% chance they will need reflect. Besides, people use it for the shaman’s agony attack for the most part.

Dredge:

That shortcut was an exploit and the devs did not consider people would do that. Just because it was there before does not mean that something similar should be now. Doing that part the legit way is not difficult if you use planning and coordination. The HP of the elemental/dredge is fine. Just use coordination to keep the burning effect on it.

Cliffside:

That’s part of the fractal and not difficult to do. Just DON’T rush. Problem solved. People is higher levels should not be having issues with this.

I don’t see why anything needs to be nerfed to the point you can faceroll through it.

Honestly, I probably have someone screw up the cliffside fractal like 2/3rds of the time, playing different tunes across different difficulties.

It’s mostly just because its such a long fractal as it is, we shouldn’t be wasting any time on that.

That’s one of the smallest concerns I have, though. I figure that’s an easy fix for Anet— perhaps only disable it for lower level fractals, then.

Fractal Weapon Recipe

At Fractal 48 (and their difficulty IMO)
Long Fractals >90 minutes

• Dredge (Medium)
• Harpy (Easy-Medium)

Average Fractals <60 minutes

• Volcano (Hard)
• Cliffside (Medium-Hard)
• Blizzard (Medium)
• Ascalon (Easy-Medium)

Short Fractals ~30 minutes

• Swamp (Easy-Medium)
• Underwater (Easy)

I’ve posted in the other two threads, so I just decided to post the lengths of the fractals from what I’ve experienced. As it stands, Fractals is the most unforgiving PvE content akittens higher levels, and it does not compensate players for doing it.

I’d like to see Amulets and back items available for Pristine Fractal Relics and Mist Essence made available for normal Fractal Relics. That alone would make FotM much better.

I feel as though the 1-10 levels of fractals are pretty good reward wise, they are easy to complete and have a good chance of dropping cores. After those levels I start to notice that the time vs reward starts to drop off.

The biggest flaw I’ve noticed is with agony and agony resistance. Agony appears after 10, and you can’t get a ascended ring until after you pass 10. I ran fractals 1 to 20 on my warrior back when it first came out and gathered a lot of ring on him in the old system, but when I started running it on my ranger (this month) I’ve got nothing in terms of ascended pieces/AR until I got to level 12. To attempt the levels 10 to 20 properly you need at least 10 AR, and most people who have recently started running fractals don’t have the luxury I’ve had (I can take the extra rings from my warrior) and can only gather up 0-5 AR for this range unless they hold back and climb the same even level over and over for a chance at a ring or to gather the pristine tokens to buy one.

The other problem I’ve noticed is that even after reaching past 10, is that most people don’t know how to run the separate fractals. I’ve been in groups where people still don’t know how the switches work to open the doors in the dredge fractals or how the hammer works in Cliffside. By far the most difficult problem I’ve had in running fractals is people all do them differently, or don’t do them properly. People have been carried past 10 by other more active members in the party, and then when you get a party of these passive fractal runner you see nothing but them dying over and over at even the most simplest parts. There have been multiple times where I needed my pet to 1v1 a boss, while I had to resurrect my team. If I can manage my pet well enough (with a system majority of people consider very poor) to hold off a boss to rez 4 people, then I don’t understand why people who have made it past level 10 can die over and over to the same mechanic.

Minute.7293:

I feel as though the 1-10 levels of fractals are pretty good reward wise, they are easy to complete and have a good chance of dropping cores. After those levels I start to notice that the time vs reward starts to drop off.

The biggest flaw I’ve noticed is with agony and agony resistance. Agony appears after 10, and you can’t get a ascended ring until after you pass 10. I ran fractals 1 to 20 on my warrior back when it first came out and gathered a lot of ring on him in the old system, but when I started running it on my ranger (this month) I’ve got nothing in terms of ascended pieces/AR until I got to level 12. To attempt the levels 10 to 20 properly you need at least 10 AR, and most people who have recently started running fractals don’t have the luxury I’ve had (I can take the extra rings from my warrior) and can only gather up 0-5 AR for this range unless they hold back and climb the same even level over and over for a chance at a ring or to gather the pristine tokens to buy one.

The other problem I’ve noticed is that even after reaching past 10, is that most people don’t know how to run the separate fractals. I’ve been in groups where people still don’t know how the switches work to open the doors in the dredge fractals or how the hammer works in Cliffside. By far the most difficult problem I’ve had in running fractals is people all do them differently, or don’t do them properly. People have been carried past 10 by other more active members in the party, and then when you get a party of these passive fractal runner you see nothing but them dying over and over at even the most simplest parts. There have been multiple times where I needed my pet to 1v1 a boss, while I had to resurrect my team. If I can manage my pet well enough (with a system majority of people consider very poor) to hold off a boss to rez 4 people, then I don’t understand why people who have made it past level 10 can die over and over to the same mechanic.

they are playing a non useless class/spec?

JJBigs.8456:

Minute.7293:

….

The other problem I’ve noticed is that even after reaching past 10, is that most people don’t know how to run the separate fractals. I’ve been in groups where people still don’t know how the switches work to open the doors in the dredge fractals or how the hammer works in Cliffside. By far the most difficult problem I’ve had in running fractals is people all do them differently, or don’t do them properly. People have been carried past 10 by other more active members in the party, and then when you get a party of these passive fractal runner you see nothing but them dying over and over at even the most simplest parts. There have been multiple times where I needed my pet to 1v1 a boss, while I had to resurrect my team. If I can manage my pet well enough (with a system majority of people consider very poor) to hold off a boss to rez 4 people, then I don’t understand why people who have made it past level 10 can die over and over to the same mechanic.

they are playing a non useless class/spec?

Obviously not. People need to learn the concept of class roles and party composition. If this were an experienced party, they wouldn’t be running a ranger in the first place.

LostInSmoke.2590:

JJBigs.8456:

Minute.7293:

….

The other problem I’ve noticed is that even after reaching past 10, is that most people don’t know how to run the separate fractals. I’ve been in groups where people still don’t know how the switches work to open the doors in the dredge fractals or how the hammer works in Cliffside. By far the most difficult problem I’ve had in running fractals is people all do them differently, or don’t do them properly. People have been carried past 10 by other more active members in the party, and then when you get a party of these passive fractal runner you see nothing but them dying over and over at even the most simplest parts. There have been multiple times where I needed my pet to 1v1 a boss, while I had to resurrect my team. If I can manage my pet well enough (with a system majority of people consider very poor) to hold off a boss to rez 4 people, then I don’t understand why people who have made it past level 10 can die over and over to the same mechanic.

they are playing a non useless class/spec?

Obviously not. People need to learn the concept of class roles and party composition. If this were an experienced party, they wouldn’t be running a ranger in the first place.

I am confused, are you saying the my class was the problem in our group? I often find that a poor player is much more detrimental to a group than any class could ever be. It doesn’t matter how great the warrior class is, if the player does not know how to utilize the class it all goes to waste. I would take an average player on a bad class (arguable) over a bad/lazy player on a great class any day.

Ayrilana.1396:

For rewards suggestions:

1) Sounds good
2) Sounds good
3) No.
4) Sounds good
5) No way!

FotM is not really a net loss as I do make money. It is definitely not as good as CoF though.

Grawl Fractal:

This will not change anything. People will still bring guardians since there is a 66% chance they will need reflect. Besides, people use it for the shaman’s agony attack for the most part.

Dredge:

That shortcut was an exploit and the devs did not consider people would do that. Just because it was there before does not mean that something similar should be now. Doing that part the legit way is not difficult if you use planning and coordination. The HP of the elemental/dredge is fine. Just use coordination to keep the burning effect on it.

Cliffside:

That’s part of the fractal and not difficult to do. Just DON’T rush. Problem solved. People is higher levels should not be having issues with this.

I don’t see why anything needs to be nerfed to the point you can faceroll through it.

Please read the post in full before responding as to avoid confusion. He never said any of it was difficult, just tedious, long and an unnecessary burden. Thank you and have a wonderful day.

These changes all sound great to me, it isn’t about making it easier it’s just about making it worth doing. Alot of people will try something and when they don’t have fun they just want it nerfed and made easier for quick rewards, but fractals seems like the one challenging piece of content that can be made into something fun regardless of rewards. So if they put a little more time into making it worth playing and less time buffing the dredge fractal to make it longer, it would definitely be a more popular area. Unfortunately I don’t think making fractals more popular is on anet’s to do list, otherwise they would at least have acknowledged it’s existence in the past few months. Anyways, great ideas it’s just a bummer that anet will completely blow them off.

Lanser.8520:

Fractal Weapon Recipe

At Fractal 48 (and their difficulty IMO)
Long Fractals >90 minutes

• Dredge (Medium)
• Harpy (Easy-Medium)

Average Fractals <60 minutes

• Volcano (Hard)
• Cliffside (Medium-Hard)
• Blizzard (Medium)
• Ascalon (Easy-Medium)

Short Fractals ~30 minutes

• Swamp (Easy-Medium)
• Underwater (Easy)

I’ve posted in the other two threads, so I just decided to post the lengths of the fractals from what I’ve experienced. As it stands, Fractals is the most unforgiving PvE content akittens higher levels, and it does not compensate players for doing it.

What? At lvl 48, my experience is:

Dredge: anywhere from 25min to 45mins depending on derps, bombs/turrets.

Harpy: anywhere from 12 to 25 minutes, usually around 15-17

Grawl: I’ve seen it done at 48 in <15mins, I don’t know what people are talking about. Okay, now that the glitch at the champ grawl is fixed, it’s harder to get it that fast, but <20 is easy.

Cliffside: 20-25minutes. 30 if people screw up.

Snowblind: 15-25, depending on how smooth the elemental source goes. If we wipe or not etc.

Ascalon: depending on the cooperation of the NPCs and the amount of wipes, 15-25 minutes.

Swamp: depending on Mossman/Bloomhunger: 8-15 minutes

Underwater: usually around 10 minutes I think.

I’ve done lvl 48’s in 45 minutes. Most of them take 1h-1h15.You’re saying you spend that amount of time in 1 fractal? Maybe you should play with better people.

Minute.7293:

The biggest flaw I’ve noticed is with agony and agony resistance. Agony appears after 10, and you can’t get a ascended ring until after you pass 10. I ran fractals 1 to 20 on my warrior back when it first came out and gathered a lot of ring on him in the old system, but when I started running it on my ranger (this month) I’ve got nothing in terms of ascended pieces/AR until I got to level 12. To attempt the levels 10 to 20 properly you need at least 10 AR, and most people who have recently started running fractals don’t have the luxury I’ve had (I can take the extra rings from my warrior) and can only gather up 0-5 AR for this range unless they hold back and climb the same even level over and over for a chance at a ring or to gather the pristine tokens to buy one.

You can play up to lvl 20 with 0 AR if you know what you’re doing. If you don’t know what you’re doing, it’s safest to maybe do lvl10 dailies a couple of times and get carried.

And it’s even easier now that you can get ascended stuff with Laurels etc. You can get 15 AR before even setting foot in lvl10 fractals.

The other problem I’ve noticed is that even after reaching past 10, is that most people don’t know how to run the separate fractals. I’ve been in groups where people still don’t know how the switches work to open the doors in the dredge fractals or how the hammer works in Cliffside. By far the most difficult problem I’ve had in running fractals is people all do them differently, or don’t do them properly. People have been carried past 10 by other more active members in the party, and then when you get a party of these passive fractal runner you see nothing but them dying over and over at even the most simplest parts. There have been multiple times where I needed my pet to 1v1 a boss, while I had to resurrect my team. If I can manage my pet well enough (with a system majority of people consider very poor) to hold off a boss to rez 4 people, then I don’t understand why people who have made it past level 10 can die over and over to the same mechanic.

The only solution to this is to stop playing with bad players/PUGs and find a guild with whom you can run fractals.

fractals is just a dungeon like any other… this is not endgame…

lets go pvp/wvw:P

Another thing i’d add in.

Restrict the rolls of stages to even the time spent.

I mean:
-set 3 tiers of stage lenght. ex: dredge and cliff side are longest ones. swamp and underwater shorter. ascalon mid.
-every fractal run will now be composed by 3 stages, one picked off each of these categories.

What does it mean:
-no more incredibly fast runs (swamp/underwater/ascalon)
but
-no more endlessy frustrating rolls (dredge/grawl/cliffside)

Being every run made of 1Short/1Med/1Long stages, you keep up the random roll on challenge (stages are divided on lenght not difficulty) and bosses/mechanics, but at least you’ll have an average “estimated time” instead of a daily fractal run taking anywhere from 30 mins to 2hrs.

AndrewSX.3794:

Another thing i’d add in.

Restrict the rolls of stages to even the time spent.

I mean:
-set 3 tiers of stage lenght. ex: dredge and cliff side are longest ones. swamp and underwater shorter. ascalon mid.
-every fractal run will now be composed by 3 stages, one picked off each of these categories.

What does it mean:
-no more incredibly fast runs (swamp/underwater/ascalon)
but
-no more endlessy frustrating rolls (dredge/grawl/cliffside)

Being every run made of 1Short/1Med/1Long stages, you keep up the random roll on challenge (stages are divided on lenght not difficulty) and bosses/mechanics, but at least you’ll have an average “estimated time” instead of a daily fractal run taking anywhere from 30 mins to 2hrs.

Except that, with an experienced team, every single one of the fractals can be done in under 20-25 minutes (for 48), except for the dredge one, which is usually 25-45 minutes. Really, the only thing they need to do to fix the dredge fractal is remove the bomb or turret event and reduce the spawns in the clown car, if they do so, it’s going to be just as balanced as all the other ones. And remove the first boss in Cliffside maybe, that would solve a lot of issues as well.

There really isn’t that big of a difference between the length in fractals, especially in <40’s, where every fractal takes like 10-15 minutes.

Grawl is even one of the fastest. It’s faster than ascalon and snowblind, yet I never see people complain about Ascalon and Snowblind. That’s because people suck at the Grawl end boss.

This entire “WAAA, Fractals are too hard” is one big L2P issue. The only one where anyone has a real point is Dredge, because dredge is just tedious and unnecessarily long. Not to mention the bomb event is simply broken.

Hamartia.3421:

[…]

I love you for posting the same ideas i have with good english. <3

swiftpaw.6397:

Every time someone makes suggestions for improvements on fotm I get excited and happy, then I am sad and depressed because I know A-Net will completely ignore them.

I love you because thats the exact feel i have every time i read this fotm topics.

I love this game but there is no love for you devs, anet, nsoft or whoever make the decisions inside your company. Any. None at all.

I like a lot of OP’s reward suggestions, but nerfing the fractals is not the answer. For example, if you play with people who can’t consistently navigate the Cliffside jumping puzzle, block them or don’t invite them next time. Nerfing the game for a few unskilled players is not the right solution.

More money for less effort. I hope the children don’t follow Anet’s GW2 model.

AndrewSX.3794:

Another thing i’d add in.

Restrict the rolls of stages to even the time spent.

I mean:
-set 3 tiers of stage lenght. ex: dredge and cliff side are longest ones. swamp and underwater shorter. ascalon mid.
-every fractal run will now be composed by 3 stages, one picked off each of these categories.

What does it mean:
-no more incredibly fast runs (swamp/underwater/ascalon)
but
-no more endlessy frustrating rolls (dredge/grawl/cliffside)

Being every run made of 1Short/1Med/1Long stages, you keep up the random roll on challenge (stages are divided on lenght not difficulty) and bosses/mechanics, but at least you’ll have an average “estimated time” instead of a daily fractal run taking anywhere from 30 mins to 2hrs.

People do this manually by rolling for swamp/underwater first. You are at least guaranteed one short/easy fractal even if you get Cliffside, Dredge and/or Shaman later on.

Bright.9160:

Really, the only thing they need to do to fix the dredge fractal is remove the bomb or turret event and reduce the spawns in the clown car

also either remove the invuln on the clown car spawns or make it so attacking prioritizes on noninvuln targets so you stop hitting the 5 spawns that are still invuln while their friends are shooting you

Player Character.9467:

Bright.9160:

Really, the only thing they need to do to fix the dredge fractal is remove the bomb or turret event and reduce the spawns in the clown car

also either remove the invuln on the clown car spawns or make it so attacking prioritizes on noninvuln targets so you stop hitting the 5 spawns that are still invuln while their friends are shooting you

That’s easily avoided tbh. Whenever we get Dredge, we go stand at the back of the Clowncar, and just have the AH guardian pull the dredge when they spawn, that way, they won’t be invulnerable. Even though you need to pull them every time, you still finish it up faster, because you don’t have to deal with the invulnerability.

Watch out if you do it that way though, because the Dredge Strazars will still hit you through the cart, because they’re ranged. Use your reflects there, and run in every once in a while to burst them down.

Anet has face implied upcoming changes to fractals…. potential Raids, etc. Let’s pray!

Bright.9160:

Player Character.9467:

Bright.9160:

Really, the only thing they need to do to fix the dredge fractal is remove the bomb or turret event and reduce the spawns in the clown car

also either remove the invuln on the clown car spawns or make it so attacking prioritizes on noninvuln targets so you stop hitting the 5 spawns that are still invuln while their friends are shooting you

That’s easily avoided tbh. Whenever we get Dredge, we go stand at the back of the Clowncar, and just have the AH guardian pull the dredge when they spawn, that way, they won’t be invulnerable. Even though you need to pull them every time, you still finish it up faster, because you don’t have to deal with the invulnerability.

Watch out if you do it that way though, because the Dredge Strazars will still hit you through the cart, because they’re ranged. Use your reflects there, and run in every once in a while to burst them down.

If people are struggling with dredge non silver add’s i think we have found our problem here.

considering rabslovich is commonly “cheesed” making the fight literally just farming the add’s.

Cliffside:
check first boss its has huge issues…
It hits at 1200 range before the shot even start SOMETIMES….
Its not lag its some sort of bug…i can t figure.

Dredge:
delete just delete it….
People hates dredge and making an horrible stage like this is really a punch in the face to playerbase…

Shaman:
Delete completely veteran grawl part…
What’s the need for another burst dps check? pve is areldy dps centered….we don t need a wall for pugs and random parties
This is more of a profession check….and the worst thing is they even get a prize for being OP while other have to struggle with underpowered cc.

@JJbigs…
Unless you run a fixed Group of a certain type you will wype at 48 if you even fight dredge alone in front of the cart …..(Others have to use didvide et imperat paired with LoS tactics)

The only party that can deal with it is relying on some broken OP dps that makes everything easy if paired with a competent guardian.

Also if you play dredge legit you will have noticed that dredge veteran with something like 1.000.000 HP …..
And obviously don t drop anything XD

P.S. i think this thread will be useful as the last 20…..
Next patch anet will just add dredges as always

JJBigs.8456:

considering rabslovich is commonly “cheesed” making the fight literally just farming the add’s.

I never knew how PUGs did it, but I found out yesterday… Their little beam spot is terrible. Not only that, but it takes for ever to kill the boss while the adds kill you one by one from a distance..

Doing him legit is easier, faster and safer.

LordByron.8369:

Cliffside:
check first boss its has huge issues…
It hits at 1200 range before the shot even start SOMETIMES….
Its not lag its some sort of bug…i can t figure.

You mean the projectiles he shoots radially?

That’s really weird, especially seeing how they shoot radially, so the chances of you getting hit by one at 1200 range are pretty small to begin with. I never had what you described happen to me though.

The best solution to Cliffside would just be to remove the first boss completely. After that, the entire stage becomes acceptable time wise.

LordByron.8369:

Dredge:
delete just delete it….
People hates dredge and making an horrible stage like this is really a punch in the face to playerbase…

I don’t hate it. I just hate the bomb and turret event and the clown car being so full. I agree with OP. Remove the events in between and reduce the spawns and you have yourself a decent Fractal level. It’s the only fractal that takes an ounce of coordination to begin with.

LordByron.8369:

Shaman:
Delete completely veteran grawl part…
What’s the need for another burst dps check? pve is areldy dps centered….we don t need a wall for pugs and random parties
This is more of a profession check….and the worst thing is they even get a prize for being OP while other have to struggle with underpowered cc.

Wait, you complain about everything being DPS checks, and then you ask for Anet to remove one of the only parts of the game where CC has a use?

That part is just fine. You need to find a balance between DPS and CC.

(Hey, I didn’t insult you, but tried to be constructive, woopie!)

Bright.9160:

You mean the projectiles he shoots radially?

That’s really weird, especially seeing how they shoot radially, so the chances of you getting hit by one at 1200 range are pretty small to begin with. I never had what you described happen to me though.

Sometimes you get hit at range way before the animation start….
After 1 seconds you are downed you see projectiles being shot….

Its weird, its obviously not intended and should be fixed….
People brought up every sort of excuse for it but its clearly a bug….

I don’t hate it. I just hate the bomb and turret event and the clown car being so full. I agree with OP. Remove the events in between and reduce the spawns and you have yourself a decent Fractal level. It’s the only fractal that takes an ounce of coordination to begin with.

It doesn t
even playing it legit…

And there was an old joke about SE:
nobody likes dredges….
That s maybe the reason why devs put a fotm full of them with hundred thousands HP that takes an hour to complete.

And if i reasoned like you, i would say:“why to change door? ots the only requiring non dps tactics”
they are really easy+fast infact……………..if you have the right profession/s.
Both paths…

Wait, you complain about everything being DPS checks, and then you ask for Anet to remove one of the only parts of the game where CC has a use?

That part is just fine. You need to find a balance between DPS and CC.

(Hey, I didn’t insult you, but tried to be constructive, woopie!)

i’ve probably been misunderstood…..
I meant that as Always you can do that part in 2 ways:

Easy way = dps check and free chest just because you are a warrior/thief…..

Hard way = cc, no chest (its impossible to keep them at bay long enough to save all hostages) and when you cc grawls they even starts to run more….

LordByron.8369:

It doesn t
even playing it legit…

And there was an old joke about SE:
nobody likes dredges….
That s maybe the reason why devs put a fotm full of them with hundred thousands HP that takes an hour to complete.

And if i reasoned like you, i would say:“why to change door? ots the only requiring non dps tactics”
they are really easy+fast infact……………..if you have the right profession/s.
Both paths…

The turrets are obviously easier than the bombs. Like, the bomb event is legit broken. Those spawns at the start of the stairs? We DPS them down in under 2 seconds, yet we aren’t fast enough because they immediately respawn. If we go stand at the back of the hall, at the door, using the DPS method, we got to bring the spawns from the stairs with us. And even then, that even is still broken.

And that part is really the only part about the fractal that bothers me so much. That and the 4000 dredge that apparently all fit in 1 little car. I personally think it’s pretty pointless. And it would reduce the fractal by a lot if they removed it. I think it would change from a 25min (potentially 45min) Fractal with a good group to a 15min with a good group and 25min with a good PUG.

Wait, you complain about everything being DPS checks, and then you ask for Anet to remove one of the only parts of the game where CC has a use?

That part is just fine. You need to find a balance between DPS and CC.

(Hey, I didn’t insult you, but tried to be constructive, woopie!)

i’ve probably been misunderstood…..
I meant that as Always you can do that part in 2 ways:

Easy way = dps check and free chest just because you are a warrior/thief…..

Hard way = cc, no chest (its impossible to keep them at bay long enough to save all hostages) and when you cc grawls they even starts to run more….

Not really, we usually bring a balance between CC and DPS. Warriors just go full on DPS while Guardians use CC’s and knockbacks and the 5th guy runs boulders.

If you bring only DPS, you’re going to have a bad time there. You need to have both.

bright you can clear bomb door LEGIT without hitting a single mob….
I won t say how mostly because not having warriors involved it would be changed even if legit.

If you bring only DPS, you’re going to have a bad time there. You need to have both.

the small amount of cc every class have is enough to let OP dps class clear them ……
but if you don t kill each before another spawns….you fail
throw bolas is more than enough

Stealth + Portal, yes I know that you can do it that way.

Take Engineer or a Thief and you’ll be fine, I know. I just think the killing tactic is smoother if with a good team.

You don’t really need that much DPS to get it done fast enough. Yes, even at 48 we have like 3 seconds between spawns, but it really isn’t that hard, and you don’t need the ‘OP’ classes to get it done.

I said ‘OP’ because all classes can do comparable DPS damage to warriors, people just don’t run the builds.

I probably do more DPS on my DPS guardian than the average PUG on his DPS warrior for example. A good player with a ‘subpar’ DPS build > a kittenty player with a ‘superior’ DPS build.

Bright.9160:

A good player with a ‘subpar’ DPS build > a kittenty player with a ‘superior’ DPS build.

We perfectly know this is not true…..
Profession >>>>> skill

If a player is uberbad can fail anyway.

If a player is extremely good can be useful as an average-low OP profession player but only in few circumstances….

P.S. for bomb door just look at how AI react and counterplay….for once dps is not the answer…there are more than 1 way.
Its horrible anyway…..just saying

LordByron.8369:

Bright.9160:

A good player with a ‘subpar’ DPS build > a kittenty player with a ‘superior’ DPS build.

We perfectly know this is not true…..
Profession >>>>> skill

Like I said: I do more DPS on my DPS guardian, a build that is supposed to be ‘subpar’ to a DPS warrior than the average PUG on their DPS warrior.

Same goes for my ele.

P.S. for bomb door just look at how AI react and counterplay….for once dps is not the answer…there are more than 1 way.
Its horrible anyway…..just saying

How the AI react? Try to shoot you to bits, and if you place the bombs, rush for the bombs?

And, DPS is easier tbh. And less of a pain in the ear to do than suicide rushing. I don’t know how you abuse the AI there to your advantage though, because I the only good tactics I know and like are DPS manmode and Stealth rushing it, which more often than not ends up with a suicide rush for at least 1 or 2 party members, unless you have a mesmer.

I have a problem with the fact that when you get to a certain level, u are compelled to go berserker gear , and i fear this limits compositions .

Also, the rewards are pretty poor . RNG on such difficult content is never a good idea, and replayability value should be in the rewards not a chance for a skin

Good post, I agree with almost all Points.

Though I dont think Cliffside needs tweaking, its fine.

Also to your reward System, I would leave point 5 out. And raise the levels you suggested by 10 each.

Of course they have to finally remove this ridicoulus level cap!

Thanks, I don’t feel strongly about Trinkets or amulets being made available in Fractals. Would just feel like a nice perk if they were supperrr rare.

Considering trinkets and amulets are necessary to progress further, they should definitely be offered for relics or pristine relics or something in fotm.

However adding them wouldn’t fix the issue. Better loot, drop rate, skins, etc need to be adjusted.

What needs to be changed it is that stupid part on underwater fractal, that dark path with kraits it’s insanely hard and frustrating, you can’t see kitten, you get stucked on walls, and the underwater controls don’t help at all.

Chokolata.1870:

I have a problem with the fact that when you get to a certain level, u are compelled to go berserker gear , and i fear this limits compositions .

I really don’t see this, there is only 1 DPS check in all the Fractals, the Grawl Shamens, and even then it’s a fairly weak DPS check. Having one DPS speced Warrior or Thief seems to be enough in a team full of Hybrid/Support. I do now bring a second set of equipment on my Ele in case we hit this point and don’t have quite enough DPS, and I recommend that people do have the ability to swap in a bit more DPS if they are running Fractals at 48. But saying all this a balanced team should have no real issue here.

aophts.9862:

What needs to be changed it is that stupid part on underwater fractal, that dark path with kraits it’s insanely hard and frustrating, you can’t see kitten, you get stucked on walls, and the underwater controls don’t help at all.

If you know the route you can solo this, with no issues at all, you don’t even need to fight a single Krait at level 48. I much prefer this to the Dolphins.

A little hint, try to hug the ceiling when moving from one Steam vent to the next, and be prepared to make a dash for it on the last steam vent (you don’t even need a light to get from here to the boss)

Very good points OP, I agree with pretty much everything you’ve written down here, particularly with the rewards and the dredge fractal. What really bothers me the most about fractals though is just how much Anet’s fractals team doesn’t seem to care about the actual problems. Every patch that comes along brings a new bug alongside the existing ones that aren’t fixed because they’re too busy fixing the exploits used to work around the poor design of some of these fractals (the dredge one particularly). For example, they recently decided to make projectile blocks and reflects completely useless against Old Tom, yet the fan can still bug out and cause your party to wipe due to perma-poison.

The thing that bothers me about fractals is that people aren’t constantly searching for exploits and workarounds just because they’re lazy; they’re doing it because there are some parts that are just so poorly designed that there’s no efficient way of doing them legitimately. Nobody wants to go balls-deep into a mob of 50+ dredge when they won’t even drop any worthwhile loot, so why force people to?

Ratty.5176:

Chokolata.1870:

I have a problem with the fact that when you get to a certain level, u are compelled to go berserker gear , and i fear this limits compositions .

I really don’t see this, there is only 1 DPS check in all the Fractals, the Grawl Shamens, and even then it’s a fairly weak DPS check. Having one DPS speced Warrior or Thief seems to be enough in a team full of Hybrid/Support. I do now bring a second set of equipment on my Ele in case we hit this point and don’t have quite enough DPS, and I recommend that people do have the ability to swap in a bit more DPS if they are running Fractals at 48. But saying all this a balanced team should have no real issue here.

Ironically that ‘dps check’ is also one of the few points where CC can shine…

aophts.9862:

What needs to be changed it is that stupid part on underwater fractal, that dark path with kraits it’s insanely hard and frustrating, you can’t see kitten, you get stucked on walls, and the underwater controls don’t help at all.

Lol, what? The dolphins are a lot harder and more frustrating than the Deep waters… Like seriously, once you figure out how it works and how the route goes (many people forget you can go to the middle before the last steam vent and avoid the Krait), it’s so easy…

1) Sounds good
2) Sounds good
3) No
4) Sounds good
5) No way!

3) I would prefer being able to choose what weapon I want instead of rerolling it 10 times for a specific one. Maybe something like 1 fractal weapon, 5 shards of condensed mist, 200 fractal relic, 1 weapon handle (which could be purchased for like 5 pristine).

It would cost nothing as all those drop in fractals and would grant people to be able to swap for the desired weapon though it would take them some tokens for it and make people spend more of those tokens.

OR

Change the weapon drop for a ticket drop that can be exchanged for the weapon or your choice.

5) Rings can now be transmuted to another ring for a cost similar to what I posted above.

OR

Ascended rings can be salvaged into 1-5 ectos (or 0-5), which would make farming fotm even more worthwhile. The same could apply later on for ascended gear/weapons.

Bright.9160:

aophts.9862:

What needs to be changed it is that stupid part on underwater fractal, that dark path with kraits it’s insanely hard and frustrating, you can’t see kitten, you get stucked on walls, and the underwater controls don’t help at all.

Lol, what? The dolphins are a lot harder and more frustrating than the Deep waters… Like seriously, once you figure out how it works and how the route goes (many people forget you can go to the middle before the last steam vent and avoid the Krait), it’s so easy…

If he can’t see anything I think his monitor/graphic settings might be making the room to dim.

Player Character.9467:

If he can’t see anything I think his monitor/graphic settings might be making the room to dim.

I play on a piece of trash ancient laptop that needs a fan on it 24/7 or my graphic card melts, I run at ~8FPS on average on absolute lowest setting. If I can see there fine, anyone can.