Guild Wars 2

The issue
Skipping dungeons is the most effective way to complete them. This is obviously no issue for anyone who prefers this kind of playstyle but there are also those who want to clear the dungeons the way they’re used to from other MMO games. The problem is that those people don’t feel rewarded for their “effort”, because despite them investing more time into a path or complete dungeon, they get nothing in return. As a result, those people are forced to play ‘handicapped’ in order to enjoy the game.

The reason
People are neither forced to – nor are they rewareded for facing the content.

• The AI is lackluster, bossfights are predictable and trashmob fail to stop the linear progress through the dungeon all the time. There are also tons of exploitable areas and bugs.
• There is but one thing that matters concerning dungeons: their currency and gold reward, which is only rewared for completing the dungeon regardless the circumstances. Not everyone runs dungeons for the sake of green and yellow salvage-ables.

The Solution
Rework the entire PvE and AI. I know, lol.

My suggestion
A bandagefix!.
a) Split the final reward of each path into a bounty on every single boss.
The amount of bounty on every boss should represent it’s difficulty, thus the harder a bossfight – the more it is worth.
b) Change the final reward to scale with stage completion.
The final reward should depend on how much % of the monster in this path have been slain and also reflect the relative length of the path(which it already does but only for the gold part).

This will give you:

• A gamemechanic that can be tweaked to adjust the reward for every possible playstyle.
• Make people re-evaluate the content and how much of it they want to skip, in they case they previously just did it for the sake of efficiency.
• Reward harder bossfights especially those that currently don’t yield a reward at all, thus reducing frustration (arah p3 pirate mesmer anyone?).
• Promote a more immersive and satisfactory playstyle
• Introduce a reason to have more difficult content (which we currently lack)

This will not:

• solve the burst dps meta, unless more difficult and nicherole demanding encounters have been added.

EDIT: I do not want to abolish the common tactics and playstyle that apparently quite a lot of people have learned to love. The only result of following my suggestion would be, that Anet gets a handle on the topic. You may agree or disagree that the content right before any dungeon’ss final boss matters or not – is disireable or not, but you should see that there are valid concerns about how it is right now and that Anet currently has no way of adjusting things one way or another, even if they chose to.

Therefor, my suggestion says nothing about how the exact balance between stagecompletion and time invested or reward for monster/bosses slain vs time-saving speedruns should look like. In my personal opinion, both should come out equally, which they currently do not at all.

Any further adjustments to things like difficulty or the entertainment value of the dungeons can only be made after we have a rewardbasis that doesn’t bring frustration or extreme inequalities to any of the possible ways through them, imo, so please don’t bring them to this topic.

My apologies to everyone who feels insulted or feels that my choice of words was unjustified. This merely reflected my personal opinion, whether legit or not, and should not stop a manture discussion. /Please cut me some slack.

inb4 moved to dungeon forum.
the devs haven’t touched dungeons in any significant way in about a year.

In addition, all of these suggestions have been posted at least 4 times a week. Putting this here just makes a mod move it to the proper place.

I think another even easier way to fix a lot of the problems is to make it so mobs don’t lose aggro in dungeons. That way you can’t skip groups or they just follow you to the boss or wherever you’re going. Also make the final boss invulnerable until the previous bosses have been killed(so people don’t skip bosses like Kholer in AC).

there are many many problems however I think they’ll need to look at the overall mechanics of champs and bosses to make CC viable and to make condi dmg viable. and then there’s plenty of trouble with the game’s AI leashing is one of them in dungeons I agree. Whatever happened to enemies chasing you no matter where you were in the dungeon?

This will definitely get moved to the Dungeon forum.

But that said, the following are my suggestions to get people to fight more and skip less in dungeons:

1. Currently, most enemies in dungeons tend to be Elites, which take a fair amount of time to kill for not necessarily better loot. Perhaps ANet can look at scaling down most of these enemies to Veterans, and most of the Champions to Elites (except for named foes, which always remain Champion or higher). Legendary foes in a dungeon (like Kholer) also get bumped down to Champion status unless they are particularly noteworthy foes from a lore or gameplay perspective. The boss at the end of dungeons is always a Legendary foe.

As a side benefit, this also makes foes less dangerous so there isn’t as much focus on “killing the enemy before they kill us” strategy which should help address the overpopularity of the Zerker meta.

2. To buff the loot from foes, Veterans now always drop a Loot Bag appropriate for their race/type, plus possible additional loot. Elites will always drop a non-Exotic Champ bag, plus possible additional loot. (These changes apply to the open world too.)

3. Players can still skip dungeon events (I’m talking about bonus events as well as main events like fighting Kholer) if they really want to, but if they complete all of the dungeon’s events, they get a bonus daily chest containing 1+ Rares (with a chance for it to be an Exotic), coin and tokens. This chest is given out once per path per account per day.

4. Introduce a “Dungeon Conqueror” title for killing every single enemy in a dungeon path in a single run (aka “vanquishing” for you GW1 vets. ). You have to vanquish all paths in each of the dungeons to get this title. (Since enemies in dungeons do not respawn, this should be feasible where it wouldn’t be in the open world.)

Some mobs in Arah do respawn. And i think there are champions that also respawn in HotW, thats why there is a lot of bot activity there.

“Rework the entire PvE and AI.” Golly, if that’s all it would take. . .SPOILERS that’s not the only thing wrong!

Casmurro.9046:

Some mobs in Arah do respawn. And i think there are champions that also respawn in HotW, thats why there is a lot of bot activity there.

Mmm, didn’t know that. Those encounters may need tweaking for my “Dungeon Conqueror” title idea to work then.

I love your idea for vanquishing dungeons. That was one of my favorite things to do in GW1 when they introduced it! I would love for it to work its way into GW2.

dustinharlin.8693:

I think another even easier way to fix a lot of the problems is to make it so mobs don’t lose aggro in dungeons. That way you can’t skip groups or they just follow you to the boss or wherever you’re going. Also make the final boss invulnerable until the previous bosses have been killed(so people don’t skip bosses like Kholer in AC).

Anet has explicitly stated that Kohler was designed to be optional — just like the champ troll in the same dungeon.

Also, mobs are designed with a leash for fear that players will lead them into overly favorable locations to kill.

Why do people feel that there is a problem? Everything is working as intended. Deal with it.

I’m actually happy some threads get moved to the dungeon forums.

Tree.3916:

Why do people feel that there is a problem? Everything is working as intended. Deal with it.

So Anet wnat us to skip most of the dgn’s content and want people to sell dgn runs too? This just promotes scamming since if you buy a path you can’t be sure if you will get what you want or if you just will get robbed.
I prefer runnign dgn’s to make gold over anything in this game. But because of this mentality I just run CoF and AC since it’s the easiest and what most people farm. I would actually try another dgn’s if they fixed these 2 since the ime to do these or other would basicly be the “same”.

mPascoal.4258:

Tree.3916:

Why do people feel that there is a problem? Everything is working as intended. Deal with it.

So Anet wnat us to skip most of the dgn’s content and want people to sell dgn runs too? This just promotes scamming since if you buy a path you can’t be sure if you will get what you want or if you just will get robbed.
I prefer runnign dgn’s to make gold over anything in this game. But because of this mentality I just run CoF and AC since it’s the easiest and what most people farm. I would actually try another dgn’s if they fixed these 2 since the ime to do these or other would basicly be the “same”.

Yes. Anet has designed many parts of dungeons to be optional. If you want to skip, you skip. If you don’t want to skip, you don’t skip. Clearly that’s better than forcing you to play a single way.

Anet has also explicitly stated that selling dungeon runs is ok.

You want to try other dungeons, make your own LFG. Stop complaining about how other people play the game and concentrate on how you play.

mPascoal.4258:

Tree.3916:

Why do people feel that there is a problem? Everything is working as intended. Deal with it.

So Anet wnat us to skip most of the dgn’s content and want people to sell dgn runs too? This just promotes scamming since if you buy a path you can’t be sure if you will get what you want or if you just will get robbed.
I prefer runnign dgn’s to make gold over anything in this game. But because of this mentality I just run CoF and AC since it’s the easiest and what most people farm. I would actually try another dgn’s if they fixed these 2 since the ime to do these or other would basicly be the “same”.

I find it funny that you feel skipping is wrong when you “skip” typing the whole word dungeons and use the “faster” alternative dgn’s…

mPascoal.4258:

Tree.3916:

Why do people feel that there is a problem? Everything is working as intended. Deal with it.

So Anet wnat us to skip most of the dgn’s content and want people to sell dgn runs too? This just promotes scamming since if you buy a path you can’t be sure if you will get what you want or if you just will get robbed.
I prefer runnign dgn’s to make gold over anything in this game. But because of this mentality I just run CoF and AC since it’s the easiest and what most people farm. I would actually try another dgn’s if they fixed these 2 since the ime to do these or other would basicly be the “same”.

SE 1&3 are easier than AC, SE is actually easier than CoF 1 IMHO. HotW path one is also easier (and usually faster) than AC as well. I would say HotW1 and SE 1 are the two easiest paths for farming. I run AC, SE, HotW, CoF as my main rotation, and CM and TA if I have time. I don’t like COE but its super easy for all paths if you can dodge and pay attention.

As for what Anet intends? Who knows. Pretty much the consensus is that we are to play how we like as long as we don’t “exploit” the map like getting under it or finding holes to clip through the map. Everything else is fair game.

Bounties on bosses kind of already exist in the form of the chests you get but I get your meaning. You’re thinking of a gambit type system?

e.g. Reach and kill X boss in under Y time for Z reward

I think that could work. So could the loot scale for killing more enemies increases the reward at the end to compensate for the time. Although it will only be a matter of time until someone finds the perfect amount of trash to kill per path to maximize time vs effort. Still, a good thought.

Truly, gambits or ‘instabilities’ may be the best thing to add the variety folks are looking for in dungeons. This could add some progression into the existing paths as people try to accomplish them with set gambits on. That will promote build diversity much more than any lame nerf ever could.

Walling off areas like the CoF room at acolytes is a weak fix imo. It doesn’t promote any ‘better’ play. Why did we go in there? Because it’s simpler. Good groups could burn all of those mobs down if they wanted. It isn’t troublesome. Like I’ve said on other posts, it’s the PuGs that will suffer the most from this, not experienced players.

Keep the dungeons as they are and add gambits to it.
-must clear all mobs
-cannot use reflects
-cannot use aegis
-endurance recharges 75% slower
-crit damage -X%
-power -X% effective
-team is crippled every 15 seconds
etc….

The more gambits, the more loot and perhaps some sort of dungeon leveling system for a sense of progression. The higher your dungeon level, the better your loot. Sort of like an added MF booster that can break 300 MF…

Anyways. Just thoughts.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Yes. Anet has designed many parts of dungeons to be optional. If you want to skip, you skip. If you don’t want to skip, you don’t skip. Clearly that’s better than forcing you to play a single way.

Anet has also explicitly stated that selling dungeon runs is ok.

You want to try other dungeons, make your own LFG. Stop complaining about how other people play the game and concentrate on how you play.

I couldn’t care less how you play the game (no offense). However, if you want to freedom of choice card me then why are you against rewarding both: the lazy and the honest way – instead of just the first one? TBH- I’ve never said how the balance between skip/ speedruns and clear runs should be. That’s completely up to Anet and I wouldn’t blame them if skipping 100% except the final boss and reroll the path would reward you with just as much currency as clear runs per minute/hour/day.

Escadin.9482:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Yes. Anet has designed many parts of dungeons to be optional. If you want to skip, you skip. If you don’t want to skip, you don’t skip. Clearly that’s better than forcing you to play a single way.

Anet has also explicitly stated that selling dungeon runs is ok.

You want to try other dungeons, make your own LFG. Stop complaining about how other people play the game and concentrate on how you play.

I couldn’t care less how you play the game (no offense). However, if you want to freedom of choice card me then why are you against rewarding both: the lazy and the honest way – instead of just the first one? TBH- I’ve never said how the balance between skip/ speedruns and clear runs should be. That’s completely up to Anet and I wouldn’t blame them if skipping 100% except the final boss and reroll the path would reward you with just as much currency as clear runs per minute/hour/day.

My reply was to this statement:

“So Anet wnat us to skip most of the dgn’s content and want people to sell dgn runs too?”

People just can’t seem to understand that many bosses in many dungeons were intentionally designed to be optional. Your reward for doing that optional content is a champ chest, or one of those huge chests, or a waypoint, or all three in the case of Kohler.

If you want more rewards or extra rewards for doing all the bosses, just say so, but calling skipping the “lazy” way and the other the “honest” way is not going to get you good discussion.

“the honest way”

lol. Yea, players have been lying to bosses all this time. Promising to give them cake and cookies but instead just killing them.

XD

I love this weird morality complex people have about aspects of a video game and how they think it’s important that the game be changed to meet it and that everyone adhere to it.

Maybe an odd word choice there. Still:
Dragging half the bosses into a corner so their attacks automiss or bug away? That’s cheating to me.
Getting insulted because ‘I don’t know how dungeons work… because only the final reward matters" by randomgroups? That’s no ‘morality complex’ that’s simply gamebreaking.

Escadin.9482:

Dragging half the bosses into a corner so their attacks automiss or bug away?

Oh my.

That is pretty serious.

Feel free to give very clear examples (path, boss, stack location, abilities) so that I, or anyone else, can inform you that you have absolutely no idea what you’re doing, or why it works (see: explaining the actual mechanics, not just making things up).

I’ll wait.

I don’t see a problem with speed-running per se. If it’s really a problem, all you gotta do is make trash mob and optional bosses worth it. For example, the game can stack up a buff on players for each veteran+ trash mob kill and give substantially better loot on boss kills and dungeon completion when the buff is at certain levels. If you’re mad at zerkers, just make the buff lose some stacks on down. Solution is kinda simple.

OldSomalia.6180:

Escadin.9482:

Dragging half the bosses into a corner so their attacks automiss or bug away?

Oh my.

That is pretty serious.

Feel free to give very clear examples (path, boss, stack location, abilities) so that I, or anyone else, can inform you that you have absolutely no idea what you’re doing, or why it works (see: explaining the actual mechanics, not just making things up).

I’ll wait.

Pirate mesmer in arah p3. Never seen a group not dragging him into that crashed boat, so all of his attacks and those of his illusions get obstructed by those wooden planks.
Spiderqueen ascalon any path, fight her in the corner so she never spews those poisonfields.
Rescue the engineer in citadel of flames (the one mentioned in op) until last patch, just run down the ramp so you lose monster aggro and wait for more acoylites to spawn.
List goes on…

I don’t have a problem with speedruns, but with the fact that they’re the only promoted way to beat a dungeon and the toxicity that partially results from that (the other part is lack of buildviability outside of zerker).

Escadin.9482:

Pirate mesmer in arah p3. Nothing seen a group not dragging him into that crashed boat, so all of his attacks and those of his illusions get obstructed by those wooden planks.
Spiderqueen ascalon any path, fight her in the corner so she never spews those poisonfields.
Rescue the engineer in citadel of flames (the one mentioned in op) until last patch, just run down the ramp so you lose monster aggro and wait for more acoylites to spawn.
List goes on…

Pirate mesmer in p3? What? No idea what you are talking about but theres no mesmer boss in path 3.

Spider queen still kills people in the corner with her other attacks. Her poison field is triggered by range. Stacking makes it easier to keep her in melee so she only uses her bite and imob spit. But you can do the exact same thing in the open. The advantage of the corner is so you can burn her down fast with fgs.

For cof its not really an exploit they still followed you down sometimes and they are still annoying to run past.

spoj.9672:

Escadin.9482:

Pirate mesmer in arah p3. Nothing seen a group not dragging him into that crashed boat, so all of his attacks and those of his illusions get obstructed by those wooden planks.
Spiderqueen ascalon any path, fight her in the corner so she never spews those poisonfields.
Rescue the engineer in citadel of flames (the one mentioned in op) until last patch, just run down the ramp so you lose monster aggro and wait for more acoylites to spawn.
List goes on…

Pirate mesmer in p3? What? No idea what you are talking about but theres no mesmer boss in path 3.

Spider queen still kills people in the corner with her other attacks. Her poison field is triggered by range. Stacking makes it easier to keep her in melee so she only uses her bite and imob spit. But you can do the exact same thing in the open. The advantage of the corner is so you can burn her down fast with fgs.

For cof its not really an exploit they still followed you down sometimes and they are still annoying to run past.

Alphard, Serpent of the Waves (path 2 – hit the wrong number sorry). He summons clones and teleport so he is a mesmer to me.

And of course it’s an exploit, why would they fix it otherwise? This is off topic anyway. My point was to reward facing the content more than now and not to defend my view of the common skip and bug methods.

Well in that case im fairly sure loSing her to the boat doesnt negate her attacks. The clones will LoS so they can be dealt with quickly. Its exactly the same as LoSing them on the crates. Which must be intended seeing as fighting her in the middle will now get you instantly wiped when she daggerstorms.

spoj.9672:

Well in that case im fairly sure loSing her to the boat doesnt negate her attacks. The clones will LoS so they can be dealt with quickly. Its exactly the same as LoSing them on the crates. Which must be intended seeing as fighting her in the middle will now get you instantly wiped when she daggerstorms.

It’s not the exact same because a) he/she will try to run around those crastes instead of stupidly unloading against them all the time and b) they can actually break after too much damage. The daggerstorm is simply meant to be dodged or outranged.

No you are meant to use the crates to shield yourself from the daggerstorm. The reason they break is to give you an incentive to dps her faster before you run out of crates. You cannot outrange the daggerstorm.

Im not sure exactly what spot you are using in the boat. But shes always been able to unload into our faces when using the boat. Its harder to avoid her attacks on the boat than it is to do it on the crates.

Escadin.9482:

Pirate mesmer in arah p3. Never seen a group not dragging him into that crashed boat, so all of his attacks and those of his illusions get obstructed by those wooden planks.
Spiderqueen ascalon any path, fight her in the corner so she never spews those poisonfields.
Rescue the engineer in citadel of flames (the one mentioned in op) until last patch, just run down the ramp so you lose monster aggro and wait for more acoylites to spawn.

Alphard? Yeah, LoSing those mobs totally obstructs them… until they run into your range because that’s what LoSing does in this game: it forces range foes to melee so they are not obstructed. Furthermore, they are not even Veteran level enemies; they are white and die in only a few hits. When all all members are cleaving in one location, and those adds are forced into that location, they get nuked. And as far as Alphard, her pistol unload isn’t even the actual problem in that fight. Lightning orbs and her keg bomb are very near one-shots if you can take a hit, and definite one-shots if you cannot. In this instance, is projectile reflection an exploit? Hardly, Illusionary Wardens, Shield of the Avenger, Feedback, Wall of Reflect (even if it’s bust) are all skills with very clear projectile reflection or absorption effects, and those effects being utilized versus the mechanics of an encounter.

Spider Queen? Yeah, you just believe that it’s the corner’s fault that she isn’t using her ranged ability, not the fact that you are in a proximity to her that facilitates she will not use a ranged ability. In fact, you can test this by pulling her behind any other LoS object in the room (there’s several), or simply melee her out in the open. Count how many times she spews her poison puddles. Now, start running around at range, with no clear strategy in mind besides imitating a zergling, and count how many times she drops poison puddles.

Rescue the engineer? That’s completely irrelevant; you were speaking on behalf of corners being responsible for, and I quote, “their attacks automiss[ing] or bug[ging] away,” and in this particular event, the only mechanic that was leveraged in favor of the player was to leash the aggro causing it to break. You can do this is many locations, and to every kind of foe in the game; it is just that the (now) blocked passage was the nearest area.

Please give some more examples so more actual dungeon runners can explain to you how and why mechanics work, rather than peddling your “it’s a bug, it’s unintended (because I don’t like it!)” rhetoric to a bunch of people who are likely to know better than you.

I don’t get it O.o
What is it exactly you’re fighting here? My opinion? The way I express my opinion? That I suggest to motivate people to kill more dungeon mobs, because it takes more time than skipping but doesn’t give anything of value in return? (I mean it’s clearly that way otherwise you wouldn’t mind a change). Do you think I want to abolish your playstyle? And if so, do you even think I have a chance of success?
I just don’t get it…

I’m not here to play who can be pickier about gamemechanics or to discuss where we should draw the line between exploits and ‘clever tactics’. I’m here because gw2 managed to promote skipping content over beating it as the best way to success. I can’t remember any other game where this is the case and while I still think it’s ‘ok’ they gave us this option, I don’t see why it should be the most effective.

We were correcting you on encounters you seem to think are being abused. The encounters you mentioned are far from being completely negated by corner stacking.

spoj.9672:

We were correcting you on encounters you seem to think are being abused. The encounters you mentioned are far from being completely negated by corner stacking.

This is only your opinion. In my opinion they’re being abused. I don’t want to change your opinion and you should leave mine alone. You brought this topic up in the first place and it has nothing to do with my suggestion.

Escadin.9482:

spoj.9672:

We were correcting you on encounters you seem to think are being abused. The encounters you mentioned are far from being completely negated by corner stacking.

This is only your opinion. In my opinion they’re being abused. I don’t want to change your opinion and you should leave mine alone. You brought this topic up in the first place and it has nothing to do with my suggestion.

It is your opinion but we were explaining why your opinion has faults. You dont understand the encounters. Like we have explained, the bosses arent negated by corner stacking like you seem to think so. Therefore your opinion is based on your own ignorance.

spoj.9672:

Escadin.9482:

spoj.9672:

We were correcting you on encounters you seem to think are being abused. The encounters you mentioned are far from being completely negated by corner stacking.

This is only your opinion. In my opinion they’re being abused. I don’t want to change your opinion and you should leave mine alone. You brought this topic up in the first place and it has nothing to do with my suggestion.

It is your opinion but we were explaining why your opinion has faults. You dont understand the encounters. Like we have explained, the bosses arent negated by corner stacking like you seem to think so. Therefore your opinion is based on your own ignorance.

Yes, perhaps that’s true, but it doesn’t matter because my opinion on common boss tactics is not the topic of OP. You only brought that up because you were picky about my choice of words, because you don’t like my opinion (whether it’s for a reason or not) on common boss tactics that you felt I might have, because you have no valid arguements for the actual topic at hand.

Your making wild assumptions about me because I told you you were wrong. I have no problem with making dungeons harder and making stacking and LoSing less desirable for the average group.

I do have an issue with forcing people to kill everything and using stupid puzzles and timegated events in dungeons. I dont mind making bosses all required for the end reward. But forcing us to kill all trash mobs is just absurd.

I actually agree with a good amount of the stuff in the OP.

spoj.9672:

Your making wild assumptions about me because I told you you were wrong. I have no problem with making dungeons harder and making stacking and LoSing less desirable.

I do have an issue with forcing people to kill everything and using stupid puzzles and timegated events in dungeons. I dont mind making bosses all required for end reward. But forcing us to kill all trash mobs is just absurd.

Where does it say I want to force the whole community to killing every single mob there is in every single dungeon?

*edit: I mean, obviously I should have chosen a different way to express this. I didn’t expect people to actually defend the way it is right now. However, many people in this thread seem so overly determined to feel ‘insulted’ by the whole topic that it makes wonder if there’s any way to this discuss it in a mature manner.

I agree entirely with the OP. Players should be rewarded for playing the dungeon, not for just finishing it. Everything in between start and finish right now, is a waste of time.

• Make the time spend between start and finish meaningful (better rewards)
• Make the content between start and finish more fun to play
• Provide challenges and encounters that are more than just linear corridors filled with mobs.
• Make bosses reward the players based on their difficulty, and how long it takes to kill them.
• Drastically reduce the health of enemies that outstay their welcome.

Escadin.9482:

spoj.9672:

Your making wild assumptions about me because I told you you were wrong. I have no problem with making dungeons harder and making stacking and LoSing less desirable.

I do have an issue with forcing people to kill everything and using stupid puzzles and timegated events in dungeons. I dont mind making bosses all required for end reward. But forcing us to kill all trash mobs is just absurd.

Where does it say I want to force the whole community to killing every single mob there is in every single dungeon?

*edit: I mean, obviously I should have chosen a different way to express this. I didn’t expect people to actually defend the way it is right now. However, many people in this thread seem so overly determined to feel ‘insulted’ by the whole topic that it makes wonder if there’s any way to this discuss it in a mature manner.

I know you didnt. I was just expressing my opinion on it. Because a lot of people who dislike skipping decide they want to make things unskippable. Sorry for the misunderstanding. :P

spoj.9672:

Escadin.9482:

spoj.9672:

Your making wild assumptions about me because I told you you were wrong. I have no problem with making dungeons harder and making stacking and LoSing less desirable.

I do have an issue with forcing people to kill everything and using stupid puzzles and timegated events in dungeons. I dont mind making bosses all required for end reward. But forcing us to kill all trash mobs is just absurd.

Where does it say I want to force the whole community to killing every single mob there is in every single dungeon?

*edit: I mean, obviously I should have chosen a different way to express this. I didn’t expect people to actually defend the way it is right now. However, many people in this thread seem so overly determined to feel ‘insulted’ by the whole topic that it makes wonder if there’s any way to this discuss it in a mature manner.

I know you didnt. I was just expressing my opinion on it. Because a lot of people who dislike skipping decide they want to make things unskippable. Sorry for the misunderstanding. :P

I edit OP so this doesn’t happen again. My apologies.

I want to skip trash mobs. I play how I want!

If someone skips an event or boss in a dungeon those people should be killed by something natural. Like in AC, if you skip troll, the roof will crumble and fall on everyone and punish you. In Arah, if you skip a boss or event, a Dragon Champ will come down and eat you. Etc.

Why

Did you hate Guild Wars 1? Or just not play it?

if you make Kohler drop empyreal fragments I will kill him every time

/needsmorefrags

I will quote a wise man,

""
There is countless threads on this forum concerning the tactic of skipping and how it is bad and you should have to kill everything.

there is countless threads in this forum concerning the level of hate of the dredge fractal.

what people fail to realize is that point one, leads to point two.

""

I think that quote got it in the wrong order though. Annoying trash mobs like the Dredge, lead to people skipping stuff.

So point two, leads to point one.

You’ve got annoying dungeon content, and dozens of respawning trash mobs with poor/no rewards, and dungeons that take too long. Combine this with faulty dungeon design with no gating mechanics, and you get the current meta.

Lol @ you two arguing about which came first: skipping or the dredge.

Point is, the way most dungeons are designed let’s either party play how they want. Why is that bad?

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Lol @ you two arguing about which came first: skipping or the dredge.

Point is, the way most dungeons are designed let’s either party play how they want. Why is that bad?

I don’t care how people play. I care about the quality of the dungeons, and the emergent gameplay trends that emerge from flawed design.

I wasn’t really trying to argue, just bringing up something that was said awhile ago. I have no bone in this fight, As I like the dredge fractal. and I play dungeons both with full clear groups and with fast run groups.

maybe that’s why I have such a hard time getting anything done. as I do a little bit of everything.

ohh well.