Ever since the change to fractals the community got much more toxic. I’ve been seeing people trying to kick others if they do not have masteries even in lower level fractals when it doesn’t matter so much, which sucks for everyone not owning hot. However, something that I find really insane has been happening a lot. Ever since people discovered the Mossman exploit – standing on a top of the wooden thing in order to avoid damage and just afk it down. While it’s their choice to use this exploit and I’m not gonna prevent them from doing so, I think it’s ridiculous these people force exploiting on others. It happened several times when half of the party would just stand there and threatening with kicks if others don’t abuse the bug, too.
Is this what we came to? People cannot be bothered to do the content normally, so they’ll make everyone abuse bugs and kick them if they do not want to? Is this how we’re supposed to do raids, too? Just find bugs and exlpoits fast so we can finish the content? What can you actually do against this? Nothing at all. You can just leave and then spend an hour in lfg because very little people can/want to do high level fractals. I really wish they were quick on fixing these things, because it’s not fun to be around such people.
You’re supposed to raid with a Static (or at least a Guild) group. They’re not something you’re supposed to be clearing with pugs.
As you’ll be raiding with mostly a set group, I wager that you can decide for yourselves how to raid. In other games, people cheesing their way through the hardest raids with exploits have got banned however. Any team that likes to think of themselves as half-decent should not be wanting to cheese through raids with exploits anyways. I don’t think Anet will be any more lenient with their philosophy if they can get the glimpse of it.
I do think Fractals are in a very weird (and unrewarding) state right now. I haven’t seen much exploiting around, only instant vote kicks when someone dcs for a minute I think.
William Van Dine/Aria Entreri/Weaver of the Dream
Thousand Lakes Alliance [TLA], Desolation
4 Champion titles, solo/duoq Legend, best old LB rank 64.
You’re supposed to raid with a Static (or at least a Guild) group. They’re not something you’re supposed to be clearing with pugs.
As you’ll be raiding with mostly a set group, I wager that you can decide for yourselves how to raid. In other games, people cheesing their way through the hardest raids with exploits have got banned however. Any team that likes to think of themselves as half-decent should not be wanting to cheese through raids with exploits anyways. I don’t think Anet will be any more lenient with their philosophy if they can get the glimpse of it.
I do think Fractals are in a very weird (and unrewarding) state right now. I haven’t seen much exploiting around, only instant vote kicks when someone dcs for a minute I think.
I disagree with this. You don’t need a static group, the content isn’t really that hard. And if the only reason is to avoid people being toxic, then I think the solution lies somewhere else. I usually run with friends/guildies, but if I want to do my daily when they’re not on, I shouldn’t be forced to exploit the content.
I disagree with this. You don’t need a static group, the content isn’t really that hard. And if the only reason is to avoid people being toxic, then I think the solution lies somewhere else. I usually run with friends/guildies, but if I want to do my daily when they’re not on, I shouldn’t be forced to exploit the content.
At least they’re designed to be that hard, as said by the devs. Whether or not they’ll actually live up to their promises or if they’re just vastly underestimating their playerbase again, that we’ll have to see. There have been seriously hard raids in other games that could not be cleared with pugs before some heavy nerfing. I didn’t try raids during BWEs as I was trying out the new specs in PvP.
I agree that exploiting should not be tolerable, but I don’t think there’s much else to do at this point thn report them and move on, or play with a party filled mostly of people that you trust. I haven’t had much problems with pug groups outside the occasional blatant idiotism, but I do believe that the problems exist out there.
William Van Dine/Aria Entreri/Weaver of the Dream
Thousand Lakes Alliance [TLA], Desolation
4 Champion titles, solo/duoq Legend, best old LB rank 64.
You’re supposed to raid with a Static (or at least a Guild) group. They’re not something you’re supposed to be clearing with pugs.
As you’ll be raiding with mostly a set group, I wager that you can decide for yourselves how to raid. In other games, people cheesing their way through the hardest raids with exploits have got banned however. Any team that likes to think of themselves as half-decent should not be wanting to cheese through raids with exploits anyways. I don’t think Anet will be any more lenient with their philosophy if they can get the glimpse of it.
I do think Fractals are in a very weird (and unrewarding) state right now. I haven’t seen much exploiting around, only instant vote kicks when someone dcs for a minute I think.
I disagree with this. You don’t need a static group, the content isn’t really that hard. And if the only reason is to avoid people being toxic, then I think the solution lies somewhere else. I usually run with friends/guildies, but if I want to do my daily when they’re not on, I shouldn’t be forced to exploit the content.
He was talking about raids for a static group if you read his post.
Anyways with regards to “exploits” in fractals people just don’t want to waste time on fights they don’t need to do. If you want to take the scenic route do it with some friends. If anet isn’t going to fix it people are going to keep doing it.
You’re supposed to raid with a Static (or at least a Guild) group. They’re not something you’re supposed to be clearing with pugs.
As you’ll be raiding with mostly a set group, I wager that you can decide for yourselves how to raid. In other games, people cheesing their way through the hardest raids with exploits have got banned however. Any team that likes to think of themselves as half-decent should not be wanting to cheese through raids with exploits anyways. I don’t think Anet will be any more lenient with their philosophy if they can get the glimpse of it.
I do think Fractals are in a very weird (and unrewarding) state right now. I haven’t seen much exploiting around, only instant vote kicks when someone dcs for a minute I think.
I disagree with this. You don’t need a static group, the content isn’t really that hard. And if the only reason is to avoid people being toxic, then I think the solution lies somewhere else. I usually run with friends/guildies, but if I want to do my daily when they’re not on, I shouldn’t be forced to exploit the content.
He was talking about raids for a static group if you read his post.
Anyways with regards to “exploits” in fractals people just don’t want to waste time on fights they don’t need to do. If you want to take the scenic route do it with some friends. If anet isn’t going to fix it people are going to keep doing it.
Okay, my bad. I thought he meant fractals, too.
However, how I still don’t get how it is okay for people trying to kick others for not exploiting. That’s just silly.
The problem is that safespotting mossman with melee requires him to be right below you. If you run around with him after you, you’re not just making it challanging for yourself but hindering the progress of the party (not just marginally but to the point that kicking you out of the party would make for a faster clear). If there’s no way you’d ever safespot him then obviously you and your party have incompatible goals and the minority, which in this case sounded like you, should just leave. The whole problem can be solved altogether by making it clear whether you’re safespotting or not in the lfg title in order to make sure everybody who joins the party is on the same page.
Why would you even need to safespot Mossman now? Even on an light armor class like an Ele in full DPS gear, you should be able to just facetank him and just go through your rotations.
That’s totally Anet fault (and partially the community). Anet is suppose to fix those exploit as fast as possible. They could also communicate with the community to indicate what they consider exploit or not. And optionally, they could ban for 24hrs people using this exploit. But they do none of the above. They abandonned dungoen completely so nothing was fix and they let people do whatever they wanted there and I can understand since they don’t want to put energy and ressources into them. But the same is true of fractal even if this is suppose to be their 5 man instanced content of the future. Underwater Mosman wasn’t fix for more than a year, don’t know how much month the rock for Archdiviner was there, the molten duo new exploit is there since HOT launch 3 weeks agos.
Anet give so little kitten about these exploit that people also don’t give a kitten. Even people that usually don’t use these, start to think. Hey nobody care, even Anet. I know I won’t be ban or anything so why not. Anet by their inaction push a mentality into the community. And maybe they think it’s not a big deal, because Dungoen and Fractal are old content. But this will happen in Raid for sure because this mentality is now spread all over the community.
- These exploit should be fixed in a couple of weeks, not months/years so that not too many people start to know about it.
- Anet should post about those exploit (wihtout explaining them) and tell clearly to the community what are the exploit that will be fixed eventually. So now people know that Anet watch these and they can hide behind the (Anet will fix it if it’s really an exploit)
- And put temporary ban on people using them so that people don’t want to use exploit in fear of a ban. This last one should have been in the game from the beginning, but now it’s a bit too late and will create too many ban and drama because people ain’t use to that. They should do the first 2 steps first, then give a head up like we gonna start temp. ban people using exploit in like 2 weeks or 1 month.
If you’re putting yourself through LFG/PUG’s you’re at the mercy of majority vote. If the team votes to exploit or safespot you either have to go along with it or leave the party. If someone intentionally tries to go against the crowd after the vote has been made I can’t say I’m surprised when that person gets kicked.
As far as the Masteries requirement, the group could require everyone to be dressed in pink dyes for all I care; it’s a PUG. The best I can do is voice my opinion and direction. If the team decides to go along with what I said, that’s great. If they don’t, well, that’s part of the game.
If you want to consistently run fractals in a particular way (clean and non-exploity) you’re going to need a dedicated group or guild for that. No one is forcing you to run with PUG’s, but there are catches if you decide to do so.
+1 on the whole “there are more important bugs to be addressed”. Fractals take up a good majority of my gaming time, but I understand that the devs are really looking to fine tune details that pertain to the newer content.
P.S. Lately, I’ve run with PUG’s almost exclusively for fractals, and I can’t say I’ve run into the absurd requirement of Masteries
If you want to consistently run fractals in a particular way (clean and non-exploity) you’re going to need a dedicated group or guild for that. No one is forcing you to run with PUG’s, but there are catches if you decide to do so.
It says a lot about the state of instanced content in this game that the expectation of pugs is that you’ll exploit. And that if you don’t want to exploit, you better find a dedicated group or guild.
Especially since the content is so easy.
Karaoke – Guild Leader – [MEGA] Super Mega Happy Fun Time
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org
If you want to consistently run fractals in a particular way (clean and non-exploity) you’re going to need a dedicated group or guild for that. No one is forcing you to run with PUG’s, but there are catches if you decide to do so.
It says a lot about the state of instanced content in this game that the expectation of pugs is that you’ll exploit. And that if you don’t want to exploit, you better find a dedicated group or guild.
Especially since the content is so easy.
Yep…it’s a sad fact indeed, and unfortunately the most efficient fix is waiting for a patch to correct the exploits since most PUG’s aren’t necessarily what I consider willing to listen.
The whole problem can be solved altogether by making it clear whether you’re safespotting or not in the lfg title in order to make sure everybody who joins the party is on the same page.
Would be awesome if people read the lfg tho. Just had a “lvl 10 kill all” party where while 4 started killing the champ, the 5th ran off the edge to start the boss fight.
I think some people can only read numbers and certain keywords. Otherwise I cant explain why people join a grp just to realize its not the kind of group they actually wanted ^^
I have to admit, I havent “pug’ed” in quite some time, but in the past I left it up to a majority vote. Even though I never quite understood why people wanted to kill mossman underwater on < lvl40, its a pug. If their decision isnt to my liking, I just leave.
You could ask nicely for them to do it without exploit, and if they dont want, you really only have two options: accept decision or leave.
Just… keep in mind, some fractal instabilities are really punishing on pugs, like boon on crit, condi on hit. Those stuff you can deal with rather easily by adapting builds and playstyle in a static group, are not so easily done with 5 random people put together by an lfg tool Hence the wish to make things foolproof.
Stop crying nobody is forcing you to do anything.
Since the dawn of time people tried to bug mossman for some reason.
This shouldn’t be bannable just as the old avoid wolves tactic people used to solo wasn’t.
Stop crying nobody is forcing you to do anything.
Since the dawn of time people tried to bug mossman for some reason.
This shouldn’t be bannable just as the old avoid wolves tactic people used to solo wasn’t.
I’d actually like to see some temp bans on safespotters so that they finally get up their kitten. Or, and this is the much more unlikely case, ANet just finally gets around to fix all those safespots etc.
I haden’t pugged Mossman at all before the other day, guess i’d been lucky to always have a guild/friend group whenever we got swamp before then. So i never knew this exploit was a thing until i rolled in with a bunch of pugs and they started jumping on the roof of the shack.
Instantly i just groaned. The best thing is that it was the random conditions instability, so any time someone did happen to get hit by a stray axe the whole group would end up being feared off the building. I swear it took longer than doing it normally because of that…
I saw people use this… trick…. only once, which was in lv 77? fractal. Given the amount of HP Moss had, i can kind of understand why people abuse it. But besides that i have yet to have a single run till 70 where people used that trick. Besides, nobody really forces you to use it lol.
If anything i wish Anet would use recoures to fix bugs like archiviner not dropping hammer or lazers applying instant 22 stacks of agony on 1 hit which imo are more frustrating than some pugs doing JP.
At higher level, it’s kind of Anet that push us to exploit. Did you tried Molten Duo at 80/90/99? We are not the best group so maybe it’s use, but it’s the champion before the boss that is crazy.
He have so much toughness like everything else than we had a half condition party, but he’s immune to fire. So direct damage hit like noodle, and condition damage build hit like noodle too. (Got the same problem with the dredge boss since condition ain’t buffed by the aura). The fight is so long that the mobs attack us in the back, so we kill them, get back on the boss which is killing us one by one because we can’t don’t have perma reflect with our party comp. We still manage to rez each other, but now it take so long that the mobs respawn again and the champ isn’t even at 50%.
This is what I hate the most about this exploit, if someone decide to do it, the whole party get teleported, I had it happen twice yesterday for dailies in low levels (not even worth skipping, I want my champ bag!), it’s not like mossman where I could just go hit him first and make sure no one get him underwater, this one I am forced teleported, I don’t often pug so it won’t happen again, but its a little upsetting.
The molten boss thing is just stupidly annoying because of the whole yoinking of the team if even one person hops off the ledge. I’d be completely fine if players who abused this where banned since players are going out of their way to avoid an otherwise required event.
As far as safespotting being banned, I dunno. In the case of Mossman safe-spotting folks are just hopping up a ledge to avoid attacks which is completely allowed in the game mechanics, but I’m sure that’s not how the encounter was made to play out. So, I feel something like this would just fall under “not intended”.
i want to say just this:
if people need exploits to kill the mossman whatever the level i’m calling them noobs
I can’t take for everybody, but a lot of people that I know don’t exploit it because it’s hard but because it’s boring. For now I didn’t feel the need to exploit it, but it was so boring that we stated to do other things while fighting him.
These exploits really affected a huge portion of the game direction and its community. Dungeons and fractals, when done “as intended”, are some of the best of any MMO. Just, the vast majority of people haven’t even attempted to look at how to do it without cheesing the content. So it sucks.
Me and my guildies specifically do all the content without abusing glitches. We specifically state so in the LFG, and we -continually- get trolled for it. There’s a very large amount of people who much prefer doing things this way, and it doesn’t take long at all to get a group (often <1 minute), but you have to wade through and kick all the trolls out.
It’s a really sad state that if I put up a LFG for a fractal and don’t say anything, the expectation is that we’ll exploit. Even if we have 4 people from our guild, we put a single one without making it clear in the message, the person will throw a issy fit (apparently, the “majority win” thing only works one way: in favor of exploiters)
For those talking about “safespotting”, the term “safe” is a misnomer. The fractal vets don’t “safespot” for safety, they do it for speed.
The mossman moves between players on the ground, particularly when invisible. The most efficient way to take him out therefore is to all stack up, so that he has no reason to move about, and he stays put in your fields (optimum DPS, especially given that condi engineers and rangers are now the meta DPS choice). But, most PUGs won’t stack they’ll try kite him about and dodge and roll.
However, what you CAN do quite easily, is point out the safe spot and say “hey, hop up here with us where it’s safer”. So everyone stacks up naturally to fit into the safe spot, and thus everyone spams their attacks and fields til he dies a swift and painless death.
It’s nothing to do with veteran fractal players mysteriously sucking. It’s that if you’ve done hundreds and hundreds of fractals successful completion isn’t the challenge, it’s speed and efficiency.
Ever since the change to fractals the community got much more toxic. I’ve been seeing people trying to kick others if they do not have masteries even in lower level fractals when it doesn’t matter so much, which sucks for everyone not owning hot. However, something that I find really insane has been happening a lot. Ever since people discovered the Mossman exploit – standing on a top of the wooden thing in order to avoid damage and just afk it down. While it’s their choice to use this exploit and I’m not gonna prevent them from doing so, I think it’s ridiculous these people force exploiting on others. It happened several times when half of the party would just stand there and threatening with kicks if others don’t abuse the bug, too.
Is this what we came to? People cannot be bothered to do the content normally, so they’ll make everyone abuse bugs and kick them if they do not want to? Is this how we’re supposed to do raids, too? Just find bugs and exlpoits fast so we can finish the content? What can you actually do against this? Nothing at all. You can just leave and then spend an hour in lfg because very little people can/want to do high level fractals. I really wish they were quick on fixing these things, because it’s not fun to be around such people.
This has been around since day one honestly. I was in a guild that I joined not long after launch. And they did Arah often. And whatever pug went along who didn’t know how to break outside of the map or glitch something was autokicked and called a dumb—-. Needless to say I left the guild.
Hence the wish to make things foolproof.