Guild Wars 2

Particularly the door bomb phase of the dungeon.

I’m fine with difficult dungeons but this is just poor design.

Lets get some dungeon balance in the next few patches Anet.

It’s not that difficult. You just need to know what to do. Dying again and again isn’t really a solution for anyone. So just watch this video explaining how to do it.

Dredge fractal is the least liked fractal, and for good reason. In higher levels, their damage output is incredible, and only but a few parties I been with have done it without dying or wiping a few times. Dps is key here, a guardian, thief and mesmer to get this done easier, but I just dont think this fractal was well designed. That bomb sequence, as stated by the video, can be a real pain for non-dps groups or parties without a guardian.

By far the longest fractal, it needs to be revised. Most parties just use tricks to cheat their way in, and I never heard anyone enjoying killing that many dredge. There are people who, after reading this, will say: “Thats easy you noob, learn how to play….” well GOOD FOR YOU! here, have a cracker!

This fractal is just annoying cuz it usually ends up taking the longest >.< .

“we wipe? more heavy bags, aiiiight!” – my slogan when doing that fractal.

I love the dredge fractal. Good loot and its very easy. I’ve always been really lucky at getting a thief in my party at lvl 48. For me, the door can easily be done by a warrior. Have the party agro the dredge along the stairs. Use SoR, Endure pain, SiO, Balanced Stance and whatever healing you want that is quick to cast and gives the most HPs. If the group build is not able to run to the door together and pop skills at the door to keep dredge away, I just run with that skill list and never seem to get downed doing it. As long as the rest of the group loses agro the dredge just reset.

The developers knew what they were doing when they made this map. Don’t question their actions. Just because you have difficulties does not mean changes must be made. Meet adversity with a an open mind and overcome the challenges. This is the way of the samurai.

Fror.2163:

It’s not that difficult. You just need to know what to do. Dying again and again isn’t really a solution for anyone. So just watch this video explaining how to do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMTdMTEEOcA

I am pretty certain that’s not how you do it on high levels.

It can be done in lvl 48 which is probably enough for most people. Majority of groups probably won’t succeed in lvl 48 and thos who do probably knew this already. I know that when you talk about high lvls you don’t mean lvl 48 and I agree making use of that tactic succesfully would seem unlikely in your high lvls.

No matter what the game developers do, there will always be a ‘hardest’, ‘longest’ and ‘most annoying’ dungeon/boss. And people will always complain about it. If the developers nerf said dungeon/boss, then something else will become the ‘hardest’, ‘longest’, ‘most annoying’, &c., and people will start to complain about that.

At a certain point, developers have to put their foot down and tell the player base “No”.

shaidyn.4016:

No matter what the game developers do, there will always be a ‘hardest’, ‘longest’ and ‘most annoying’ dungeon/boss. And people will always complain about it. If the developers nerf said dungeon/boss, then something else will become the ‘hardest’, ‘longest’, ‘most annoying’, &c., and people will start to complain about that.

At a certain point, developers have to put their foot down and tell the player base “No”.

But if the dredge are over level 9000 and everything else is level 40, you can still tone it down. (Numbers based off an arbitrary scale rating to get my point across)

At some point the devs need to listen to the player base and say “ok guys, we got some work to do in dungeons”

In high lvls dredge is way over the top though. To the point where doing a full round of 3 any other fractals (well, at least assuming swamp start) takes basically less or equal time compared to just doing dredge.

My personal grievance here would be that the designers have taken every opportunity to make this fractal as punishing as possible. It’s fair that they remove exploits, but they have changed various parts of the fractal to prevent class skills, ingenuity, and good play from shortening the time. Adding extra dredge when the fractal is restarted is just seems like petulance from the designers, punishing players for not playing the way designers want it to be played, without actually fixing the mechanics.

What’s funny is…

1. We have a bunch of “what if we had to kill all the mobs / we should be forced to kill all the mobs” threads.

2. We have a bunch of threads complaining about how excruciating the Dredge fractal is.

None of the people who are responsible for #1 understand that the consequence is #2.

It’s just too long, I don’t even care about the loot.

You all do know that fractals, not only but especially the dredge fractal, are an elaborate, now year-long flame by the devs, right?

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

What’s funny is…

1. We have a bunch of “what if we had to kill all the mobs / we should be forced to kill all the mobs” threads.

2. We have a bunch of threads complaining about how excruciating the Dredge fractal is.

None of the people who are responsible for #1 understand that the consequence is #2.

Hah! This was perfect.

+1

If the Dredge didn’t respawn after being killed, I’d be more than happy to slaughter them all during the level.

The dredge fractal is honestly the most poorly designed instance in this game IMO. It’s doable, but it’s ridiculously tedious and just a pain in the kitten in general. But it seems like all Anet is interested in doing is making it increasingly more annoying with each update they bring to it, so good luck convincing them to rework it completely.

Dredge fractal takes ~20 minutes at lvl48, which isn’t really that unreasonable

Bring back stealth kit spamming. Dying on buttons is stupid.

hybrid.5027:

Dredge fractal takes ~20 minutes at lvl48, which isn’t really that unreasonable

Problem is the increase in time beyond lvl 48. As I said earlier it reaches the point where you do a set of 3 fractals in equal time as just doing dredge.

Konu.1826:

hybrid.5027:

Dredge fractal takes ~20 minutes at lvl48, which isn’t really that unreasonable

Problem is the increase in time beyond lvl 48. As I said earlier it reaches the point where you do a set of 3 fractals in equal time as just doing dredge.

I know, I’ve done dredge at 79. I think you’re exaggerating a little bit though. Clown car (on a good run) took us 15-20 minutes, if we wiped a few times it would take up to 30. Rest of the fractal totals to about 10 minutes, so it’s not really too bad. 25-40 minutes isn’t too bad really.

Well, if you pull off like 30 min dredges then you are right about not making whole rotation as fast. I don’t think I have done that fast of a dredge run, then again the style I’ve played those levels (basically play what you want, screw team composition) is probably not even close to optimal.

Dredge might be a bit more unforgiving than other fractals for those compositions. I doubt I would have as much fun and challenge with optimised group compositions and those are the reasons for me to run high fractals in the first place.

hybrid.5027:

Konu.1826:

hybrid.5027:

Dredge fractal takes ~20 minutes at lvl48, which isn’t really that unreasonable

Problem is the increase in time beyond lvl 48. As I said earlier it reaches the point where you do a set of 3 fractals in equal time as just doing dredge.

I know, I’ve done dredge at 79. I think you’re exaggerating a little bit though. Clown car (on a good run) took us 15-20 minutes, if we wiped a few times it would take up to 30. Rest of the fractal totals to about 10 minutes, so it’s not really too bad. 25-40 minutes isn’t too bad really.

My guess is you run with a pretty optimized group that’s all on VOIP. I know not everything in this game should be catered towards casuals, but I would guess that only 5-10% of lvl 48 dredge are done in 15 minutes or less.

If the round were fun and engaging, I would be fine with it taking 20/30 minutes. It’s the fact that it’s just mindless killing just to have things respawn.

I mean the clown car? What’s the point? If you don’t wipe after the first 2/3 waves, you’re not going to wipe in the next 15 unless you make a horrible mistake.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

What’s funny is…

1. We have a bunch of “what if we had to kill all the mobs / we should be forced to kill all the mobs” threads.

2. We have a bunch of threads complaining about how excruciating the Dredge fractal is.

None of the people who are responsible for #1 understand that the consequence is #2.

This is a pretty incredible realization, hah.

In upper 40s, if we get dredge after swamps, we just restart swamps cuz it’s faster to do swamp and ANY other level then dredge level alone. My thief can solo the bomb side easily, but the amount of trash mobs is just plain overdone. Especially on 40s where dredge spawn from inside of the “car” takes roughly 15-20 minutes on average to clear the bar after the boss is killed. It’s ridiculous…

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

What’s funny is…

1. We have a bunch of “what if we had to kill all the mobs / we should be forced to kill all the mobs” threads.

2. We have a bunch of threads complaining about how excruciating the Dredge fractal is.

None of the people who are responsible for #1 understand that the consequence is #2.

QFT.

Ethics.4519:

hybrid.5027:

Konu.1826:

hybrid.5027:

Dredge fractal takes ~20 minutes at lvl48, which isn’t really that unreasonable

Problem is the increase in time beyond lvl 48. As I said earlier it reaches the point where you do a set of 3 fractals in equal time as just doing dredge.

I know, I’ve done dredge at 79. I think you’re exaggerating a little bit though. Clown car (on a good run) took us 15-20 minutes, if we wiped a few times it would take up to 30. Rest of the fractal totals to about 10 minutes, so it’s not really too bad. 25-40 minutes isn’t too bad really.

My guess is you run with a pretty optimized group that’s all on VOIP. I know not everything in this game should be catered towards casuals, but I would guess that only 5-10% of lvl 48 dredge are done in 15 minutes or less.

If the round were fun and engaging, I would be fine with it taking 20/30 minutes. It’s the fact that it’s just mindless killing just to have things respawn.

I mean the clown car? What’s the point? If you don’t wipe after the first 2/3 waves, you’re not going to wipe in the next 15 unless you make a horrible mistake.

I don’t disagree, the clown car is some seriously tedious design. I just think people are exaggerating how bad it really is. I’m a pretty laid back person though, maybe it’s worse than I give credit

Lambros Augustus.6594:

Bring back stealth kit spamming. Dying on buttons is stupid.

You’re doing it wrong. So very, very, wrong.

…

As for the fractal in general, there’s nothing about it that’s hard. The control panel takes a modicum of coordination/strategy, and the rest of it can be handled by a pack of baddies with a stack of repair canisters. Doing it well, so those canisters aren’t needed and you’re time isn’t wasted, is the hard part. I personally don’t think that’s good design. This fractal is one of the biggest reasons why I can’t pug 48s anymore. After you’ve done it in 12-14 minutes, the thought of being stuck there for 45-60 minutes with 2 staff camping guardians is just horrifying. There’s never a risk of imminent failure, only a question of “how long is this gonna take?”

hybrid.5027:

Dredge fractal takes ~20 minutes at lvl48, which isn’t really that unreasonable

1st boss fight alone takes 15-20 minutes, so not sure what witchcraft you’re using…

Romo.3709:

hybrid.5027:

Dredge fractal takes ~20 minutes at lvl48, which isn’t really that unreasonable

1st boss fight alone takes 15-20 minutes, so not sure what witchcraft you’re using…

Our wealth of game knowledge. Brazil has a 22 @ 48 recorded, but it was bombs + bad.

hybrid.5027:

Romo.3709:

hybrid.5027:

Dredge fractal takes ~20 minutes at lvl48, which isn’t really that unreasonable

1st boss fight alone takes 15-20 minutes, so not sure what witchcraft you’re using…

Our wealth of game knowledge. Brazil has a 22 @ 48 recorded, but it was bombs + bad.

This is what people should be selling, not paths of Arah. I would pay 5 gold to learn techniques for dredge frac, and I am sure others would as well.

lunyboy.8672:

hybrid.5027:

Romo.3709:

hybrid.5027:

Dredge fractal takes ~20 minutes at lvl48, which isn’t really that unreasonable

1st boss fight alone takes 15-20 minutes, so not sure what witchcraft you’re using…

Our wealth of game knowledge. Brazil has a 22 @ 48 recorded, but it was bombs + bad.

This is what people should be selling, not paths of Arah. I would pay 5 gold to learn techniques for dredge frac, and I am sure others would as well.

PvP’ers have known the secret since day 1!

hybrid.5027:

lunyboy.8672:

hybrid.5027:

Romo.3709:

hybrid.5027:

Dredge fractal takes ~20 minutes at lvl48, which isn’t really that unreasonable

1st boss fight alone takes 15-20 minutes, so not sure what witchcraft you’re using…

Our wealth of game knowledge. Brazil has a 22 @ 48 recorded, but it was bombs + bad.

This is what people should be selling, not paths of Arah. I would pay 5 gold to learn techniques for dredge frac, and I am sure others would as well.

PvP’ers have known the secret since day 1!

Hammer Warriors?

The bombs is rarely any worry at 48 if people know what they’re doing. Stealth just trivializes it, otherwise you have somebody draw aggro/CC while someone slips by and reflects/sanctuary are used.

Quite frankly what I find more aggravating about this fractal at 48 is the switch room. No way in hell a team without a guardian is going to do the switches without difficulty/deaths. Having to stand on a switch while the 48 scaled up dredge come melee you is just dumb for something like a berserker ele or ranger.

You could say the same for Ascalon fractal LoS pulling or Mossman 48 legit. Guardian utility is broken.

Zenith.7301:

The bombs is rarely any worry at 48 if people know what they’re doing. Stealth just trivializes it, otherwise you have somebody draw aggro/CC while someone slips by and reflects/sanctuary are used.

You can solo it as a shortbow thief. I do it all the time.

Romo.3709:

You can solo it as a shortbow thief. I do it all the time.

You can solo it as a naked greatsword warrior. At level 79. I do it all the time.

haviz.1340:

Romo.3709:

You can solo it as a shortbow thief. I do it all the time.

You can solo it as a naked greatsword warrior. At level 79. I do it all the time.

Link it!

Ethics.4519:

haviz.1340:

Romo.3709:

You can solo it as a shortbow thief. I do it all the time.

You can solo it as a naked greatsword warrior. At level 79. I do it all the time.

Link it!

Try it!