I know people will say that its only due to bad players and stuff..
But at least at 18-24 gmt+1 you should just check GW2lfg.
The thing about heavy armor classes is really getting out of hand…
I could accept that thing for cof but when you see 70-80% lfg for only guardian and warriors it becomes ridiculous.
Anet please inspect this and think of effect of your PvP nerfs on pve….(considering PvE is way more played than PvP/WWW).
Because it seems pve has really no love in term of balance between classes.
Thank you.
It’s not really a matter of heavy armor but a learn to play issue.
Devs balance the game based on what each class CAN do, not what average people end up doing.
People with lighter armor who are mediocre in general don’t take advantage of all the evasive abilities and builds available to those classes and end up underperforming.
This then creates the stereotype that lighter armored characters are somehow no good and promotes discriminiation against them.
It’s not really a matter of heavy armor but a learn to play issue.
Devs balance the game based on what each class CAN do, not what average people end up doing.
i doubt it.
DPS is king in fotm..
Now at most popular levels 2X and 3X most classes get 1shot by many Attacks whereas heavy armors does not.
The difference between 1shot and 2 shot is huge actually……
Pair that with the dps….
Someone could say that a perfect player with other classes can do ALMOST the same…
But how fair is balancing about a non existing entity like a perfect player?
Basically there are 2 classes:
1 is capable of huge damage without sacrificing too much defence.
1 is made with the best support AND crowd control skills (i find funny how they punished ele/mesmer CC skills in some fractals leaving guardians untouched).
Then there are other classes that played completely flawlessly can compete…..
But the thing is that with similar skill they don t give similar results.
PvE is the most unbalanced part of the game….and that to favor other things like www and PvP.
P.S. mesmer is just overrated…..
(edited by LordByron.8369)
PvE is the most unbalanced part of the game….and that to favor other things like www and PvP.
Leave PvP out of it, PvP balance doesn’t affect PvE. The only part of the game that ruins balance is WvW/PvE skill share, unless they split skills between WvW/PvE we will never see the required buffs to certain professions (I’m looking at the Elementalist now)
As long as people are whining (x prof is so strong in WvW) they won’t buff it for PvE, only nerfs due to crying/whinning. And the opposite is true of course (see Warrior)
DPS is king in fotm..
Then projectile destroyers is second king in fractals, thats why guardians are mandatory for smooth runs.
PvE is the most unbalanced part of the game….and that to favor other things like www and PvP.
Leave PvP out of it, PvP balance doesn’t affect PvE. The only part of the game that ruins balance is WvW/PvE skill share, unless they split skills between WvW/PvE we will never see the required buffs to certain professions (I’m looking at the Elementalist now)
As long as people are whining (x prof is so strong in WvW) they won’t buff it for PvE, only nerfs due to crying/whinning. And the opposite is true of course (see Warrior)
in theory yes…
In practice…you can just check patchnotes since release and see how some classes/builds have been destroyed in the name of SPVP and surviving on a spot.
Staff ele was a powerful build once……for pvp.
Now is overall trash….
They don t do a complete split they sometimes look at FEW skills.
But they keep sacrificing the most played part of the game (pve) in the name of their esport dream (and the least played).
Well, one of the best tanks (much better then warrior for sure) in game is elementalist. Ppl just need to learn how to play this class. Rangers/thieves well played are great. And since I started going to fotm with one of necros (full condi), I always want him in my team. 1 well played necro is just incredible! The only class possibly(!) bad can be engi – but only as I there is no engi in my guild team for fotm so I just dont know what and how can they do.
But “tanking” doen’t work in PvE. Warriors deal the most dps while still surviving hits where other professions would get onehittet on similar equipment. Guardians have even on Berserker Gear lots of survivability, passive blocks and of course projectile reflection plus they still deal average damage. An elementalist wouldn’t be as survivable as a guardian on Berserker Gear and when equipped defensive that ele won’t deal any great damage. The profession balancing in PvE needs some love and the underwater balancing is extremely horrible, while the PvP balancing seems quite well to me (at least it seemed about a month ago). A team out of necros, engis and ranger won’t ever do half as good in a dungeon as a team out of warriors, guardians and mesmers.
They pick these because of favoritism. Heavy armor means their more likely to survive. After they got one then they might pick you so don’t come on the forums and QQ because there is some distinct differences between the professions. Fractals could be done with any profession if players know what to do. So this is not a matter of balance.
Well, one of the best tanks (much better then warrior for sure) in game is elementalist. Ppl just need to learn how to play this class. Rangers/thieves well played are great. And since I started going to fotm with one of necros (full condi), I always want him in my team. 1 well played necro is just incredible! The only class possibly(!) bad can be engi – but only as I there is no engi in my guild team for fotm so I just dont know what and how can they do.
this is a common misconception.
Ele mobility is useless in PvE
Ele healing is useless when most things just oneshot….you need either skills to deny damage or passive defense
But most of all as i said they put DPS wall in fotm just to be sure tanks were not useful at all
Just to be sure they added mechanics like dredge fotm where you just cannot use your active defence and a lot of mobs everywhere just to be sure you cannot evade enough.
And on top of that ele to survive has to sacrifice DPS that is already awful for glass cannons.
Despite balancing reasoning that we are not paid to do and seems anet won t even listen; there is a problem:
As seen on GW2 players perception is guardian and warriors >>>>> every other class…
As i said can be seen with the increment in GW2LFG of LFguardian LF warriors and LF Heavy (and its not because other spot were full of light ….they often are full heavy parties or just reserve AT LEAST 3 spots to heavy).
For further clarification:
5 light/mid party you’ll often hear “we ll probably fail….”
5 heavy you’ll hear “perfect party”
the problem is undeniable……despite (almost) everything can be done with any class, the skill required is completely on different levels….
Or at least is a perception so commonly accepted that is still a problem
P.S. and i hope people stop denying that skill required to complete a fractal with different classes is not a balancing issue.
You can possibly 3 man fractals IN THEORY…..in practice after a certain level you cannot.
Perfect players doesn t exist….is a concept that more evolved PvP communities in other games accept….
Just here L2P is the universal answer to anything….(nd if you meet in game those posting L2P……its really really sad for them).
(edited by LordByron.8369)
It’s not really a matter of heavy armor but a learn to play issue.
Devs balance the game based on what each class CAN do, not what average people end up doing.
i doubt it.
DPS is king in fotm..
….
Wow, don’t want to read anything else u have to say after this line
It’s not really a matter of heavy armor but a learn to play issue.
Devs balance the game based on what each class CAN do, not what average people end up doing.
i doubt it.
DPS is king in fotm..
….
Wow, don’t want to read anything else u have to say after this line
If you did you would’ve learnt how to play higher level fotm….it seems you don t have a clue.
or
you can tell me what you know that goes against one of the few things high levels fotm players agree on since months?
you can easily know why u need dps at lvl 3X or 4X…..rtry that and suddenly you’ll get by yourself.
It’s not really a matter of heavy armor but a learn to play issue.
Devs balance the game based on what each class CAN do, not what average people end up doing.
i doubt it.
DPS is king in fotm..
….
Wow, don’t want to read anything else u have to say after this line
If you did you would’ve learnt how to play higher level fotm….it seems you don t have a clue.
or
you can tell me what you know that goes against one of the few things high levels fotm players agree on since months?you can easily know why u need dps at lvl 3X or 4X…..rtry that and suddenly you’ll get by yourself.
Take a break kitten, do u even know what u talking about. Explain to me how does dps help u at grawl shaman, jade maw and many rooms at fractal such as bonfire at blizzard, dolphin/light at water, swamp runner, gredge door,and etc and etc.
Now go back to cof p1 quick run will u?
It’s not really a matter of heavy armor but a learn to play issue.
Devs balance the game based on what each class CAN do, not what average people end up doing.
People with lighter armor who are mediocre in general don’t take advantage of all the evasive abilities and builds available to those classes and end up underperforming.
This then creates the stereotype that lighter armored characters are somehow no good and promotes discriminiation against them.
^ this 100%. This game is balanced at a high skill level, which it should be. It’s not balanced around the average player who don’t play their class to the full potential.
warriors,guardians and mesmers need more buffs for PvE /end of sarcasm
Take a break kitten, do u even know what u talking about. Explain to me how does dps help u at grawl shaman, jade maw and many rooms at fractal such as bonfire at blizzard, dolphin/light at water, swamp runner, gredge door,and etc and etc.
Now go back to cof p1 quick run will u?
Thrash and bosses from 30 will kill player in full soldiers almost just as fast as they will kill player in full berserker. So what’s the point of running defense gear that won’t defend you and will prolong the fight? Longer you kill things in high fractals, more windows for charlie and foxtrot will open.
It’s not really a matter of heavy armor but a learn to play issue.
Devs balance the game based on what each class CAN do, not what average people end up doing.
i doubt it.
DPS is king in fotm..
….
Wow, don’t want to read anything else u have to say after this line
If you did you would’ve learnt how to play higher level fotm….it seems you don t have a clue.
or
you can tell me what you know that goes against one of the few things high levels fotm players agree on since months?you can easily know why u need dps at lvl 3X or 4X…..rtry that and suddenly you’ll get by yourself.
Take a break kitten, do u even know what u talking about. Explain to me how does dps help u at grawl shaman,
before first boss encounter you need strong dps to get rid of vets
after when you have too many elementals at higher level you need to get rid of them FAST
Infact the best strat (just here) is having a ranger to mmobilize shaman using those 20 sec to clear some elementals before focusing on shield….otherwise they are too many.
to do that binding blade + 1HB is really a strong option…..but warriors in general are the best for this task.
Something you don t notice 1-30
jade maw
._. do you even need any class or skill at maw?
and many rooms at fractal such as bonfire at blizzard, dolphin/light at water, swamp runner, gredge door,and etc and etc.
those doesn t require even to attack…are you trolling?…..i told you there are some DPS checks that devs felt they should put in fotm …..
I have no time to explain you all………open your own thread or just play some high level fotm.
This is not “teach me how to play fotm”
Its
Player seem to perceive guardians and warriors as extremely more proficient in fotms….
And the l2p argument shows how uninformed most players are….
Given the same skill you can even on paper understand those 2 classes are indeed way better than any other.
Get somebanners and a couple guardians and everything becomes EASY <====
When a class can replace SKILL that’s when there is a problem.
And just to tell Yesterday gw2lfg was again full of only heavy teams….and jokes starts to appear also on 9gag to say how ridiculous the thing is.
(edited by LordByron.8369)
Take a break kitten, do u even know what u talking about. Explain to me how does dps help u at grawl shaman, jade maw and many rooms at fractal such as bonfire at blizzard, dolphin/light at water, swamp runner, gredge door,and etc and etc.
Now go back to cof p1 quick run will u?
Thrash and bosses from 30 will kill player in full soldiers almost just as fast as they will kill player in full berserker. So what’s the point of running defense gear that won’t defend you and will prolong the fight? Longer you kill things in high fractals, more windows for charlie and foxtrot will open.
So wrong. I played 30 fotm daily for months on my thief and elem. I use d/d on both toons and melee most of the time unless boss/room mechanism forbids melee. There is no boss/trash can 1 hit me except iceman stomp at dredge, but it’s not a problem since the obvious animation.
The above statement (DPS is the king) is absolutely garbage to any ears who have done a serious numbers of fotm high level runs. I can testify that with months’ experience running high level fotm (till 40).
Like someone stated before, if there are any ‘king’ in fotm, it’s the anti-projectile (reflections wall, feedback, Mesmer focus 5,4, sanctuary, thief smoke screen).
People perceive the “weaker” professions as too weak to properly do high level Fractals. Engineers and Thieves (the former is amazingly underestimated in possible damage output while the latter has a tarnished reputation due to a lot of people who simply can’t play the professions properly) are considerably harder to play properly in PvE than a Warrior or Guardian and thus you encounter less people who are worthy of playing at high levels. This leads to assuming that your average pug of this professions are the type who are not capable of playing the profession to their fullest extent and thus they perform considerably worse than a pug of a Warrior or Guardian of the same caliber.
While there are issues such a microhealing being relatively useless and the profession based issues such as Ranger pet being extremely vulnerable due to lacking any dodging and agony resistance, I believe it to be almost entirely a perception issue.
(edited by GoZero.9708)
On topic, the PVE balance does need some work. Despite some wrong statements the op made in the thread, he actually has a point.
Take a break kitten, do u even know what u talking about. Explain to me how does dps help u at grawl shaman, jade maw and many rooms at fractal such as bonfire at blizzard, dolphin/light at water, swamp runner, gredge door,and etc and etc.
Now go back to cof p1 quick run will u?
Thrash and bosses from 30 will kill player in full soldiers almost just as fast as they will kill player in full berserker. So what’s the point of running defense gear that won’t defend you and will prolong the fight? Longer you kill things in high fractals, more windows for charlie and foxtrot will open.
So wrong. I played 30 fotm daily for months on my thief and elem. I use d/d on both toons and melee most of the time unless boss/room mechanism forbids melee. There is no boss/trash can 1 hit me except iceman stomp at dredge, but it’s not a problem since the obvious animation.
Yeah i bet you had a couple of guardians with you……
I saw so many players carried to higher levels that still cannot grasp how fotm works..
I think just saying ascalon would prove how wrong you are (18736 dmg 1 hit LVL20 XD and i even evaded 1st rush not to mention boss XD).
Or talk about ice elementals spike during blizzard
Or ANY agony shot unless you have huge AR.
The best is actually on your D/D ele (i doubt you really play it in fotm) the funny 6way agony shot by opening boss at cliffside.
With D/D ele you will be hit during animations for sure….unless u change weapon.
I have at least other 3-4 in mind…..but lets not waste time……
So wrong. I played 30 fotm daily for months on my thief and elem. I use d/d on both toons and melee most of the time unless boss/room mechanism forbids melee. There is no boss/trash can 1 hit me except iceman stomp at dredge, but it’s not a problem since the obvious animation.
The above statement (DPS is the king) is absolutely garbage to any ears who have done a serious numbers of fotm high level runs. I can testify that with months’ experience running high level fotm (till 40).
Like someone stated before, if there are any ‘king’ in fotm, it’s the anti-projectile (reflections wall, feedback, Mesmer focus 5,4, sanctuary, thief smoke screen).
I’m not talking about 1-hits. Less dps equals longer fight. Longer fight equals more windows for screwing things up. And if player in pvt screw things, he dies just as fast as player in berserker. I hope that will remove fog of misunderstanding from my point of view.
I haven’t seen any real discrimination. I’ve seen groups ask for heavies because they don’t have any yet and I’ve seen groups opt for a light armor because they have enough heavies. Most fractal groups of decent level don’t really care what class you are as long as the basics are covered. Though if a group has 3-4 and don’t have a guardian, you bet your kitten they will prefer one and rightfully so.
Take a break kitten, do u even know what u talking about. Explain to me how does dps help u at grawl shaman, jade maw and many rooms at fractal such as bonfire at blizzard, dolphin/light at water, swamp runner, gredge door,and etc and etc.
Now go back to cof p1 quick run will u?
Thrash and bosses from 30 will kill player in full soldiers almost just as fast as they will kill player in full berserker. So what’s the point of running defense gear that won’t defend you and will prolong the fight? Longer you kill things in high fractals, more windows for charlie and foxtrot will open.
So wrong. I played 30 fotm daily for months on my thief and elem. I use d/d on both toons and melee most of the time unless boss/room mechanism forbids melee. There is no boss/trash can 1 hit me except iceman stomp at dredge, but it’s not a problem since the obvious animation.
Yeah i bet you had a couple of guardians with you……
I saw so many players carried to higher levels that still cannot grasp how fotm works..
I think just saying ascalon would prove how wrong you are (18736 dmg 1 hit LVL20 XD and i even evaded 1st rush not to mention boss XD).
Or talk about ice elementals spike during blizzard
Or ANY agony shot unless you have huge AR.The best is actually on your D/D ele (i doubt you really play it in fotm) the funny 6way agony shot by opening boss at cliffside.
With D/D ele you will be hit during animations for sure….unless u change weapon.
I have at least other 3-4 in mind…..but lets not waste time……
I think just saying ascalon would prove how wrong you are (18736 dmg 1 hit LVL20 XD and i even evaded 1st rush not to mention boss XD).
18736 dmg 1 hit still can’t kill my thief with 22k hp 2.6k armor. But shes not solder stats tho. And those bull charge by vet warriors are pretty easy to dodge. I don’t know how much damage the boss or vet warrior does at lvl 40, but I never stand still to let em hit me.
With D/D ele you will be hit during animations for sure….unless u change weapon.
I have at least other 3-4 in mind…..but lets not waste time……
What d/d elem animation you are talking about? the only channeling skill d/d elem has is earth 5, and do you have to use it?
Yeah i bet you had a couple of guardians with you……
lol, I don’t care if there are guardians giving me regen or aegis. My thief is dodge 80% of the time (death blossom+vigor+trait) and elem can keep vigor on 100% time, and yes , she dodges a lot.
ok, your thread has a point. Guardian is op in fotm and warrior is op in COF p1, let’s keep it at that and stop making more points that might embarrass yourself.
defensive gear does matter on fotm. dps does not matter because in hard parts it does not matter at all.
Where you really need high dps? On which fractal? You still need to kite mobs on dredge door event (and glassy zerk class just can’t do it at all). You kill dredge on champion faster? It does not matter they spawn with time, it still take ages. And zerk class will probably fail with melee on champion because of his normal mace attack for 8k on them…
You need dps on shaman fractal? For what? You need dodge there and reflect, sometimes you even need to stop dps to ress someone or to wait for CD on some skills and heals.
Other fotm are easy in any setup. It does not matter how fast I will kill ice fractal last boss. It’s afk boss great for salvaging items in my bags. Does high dps makes asura fractal easier? Maybe, but it still does not matter, it’s still doable with any setup.
We need to be ready for hardest parts, not for easiest ones. High dps is handy on dredge fractal but probably thief with stealth will make it way way more easier than some zerk warrior. I will choose mesmer over warrior on this fractal always, boon thievery + stripping + best reflect make mesmer just OP in this fractal.
Let’s face it. Most zerk warriors in fotm are useless. Sometimes high toughness class is usefull to get agro and kite mobs in many events. Sometimes CC is more important than raw damage. 99% of warriors on fotm use rifle or bow most of the time. Nobody will tell me that they have “great” dps with those weapons.
defensive gear does matter on fotm. dps does not matter because in hard parts it does not matter at all.
Where you really need high dps? On which fractal? You still need to kite mobs on dredge door event (and glassy zerk class just can’t do it at all). You kill dredge on champion faster? It does not matter they spawn with time, it still take ages. And zerk class will probably fail with melee on champion because of his normal mace attack for 8k on them…
You need dps on shaman fractal? For what? You need dodge there and reflect, sometimes you even need to stop dps to ress someone or to wait for CD on some skills and heals.Other fotm are easy in any setup. It does not matter how fast I will kill ice fractal last boss. It’s afk boss great for salvaging items in my bags. Does high dps makes asura fractal easier? Maybe, but it still does not matter, it’s still doable with any setup.
We need to be ready for hardest parts, not for easiest ones. High dps is handy on dredge fractal but probably thief with stealth will make it way way more easier than some zerk warrior. I will choose mesmer over warrior on this fractal always, boon thievery + stripping + best reflect make mesmer just OP in this fractal.
Let’s face it. Most zerk warriors in fotm are useless. Sometimes high toughness class is usefull to get agro and kite mobs in many events. Sometimes CC is more important than raw damage. 99% of warriors on fotm use rifle or bow most of the time. Nobody will tell me that they have “great” dps with those weapons.
The op doesn’t know what hes talking about. Lets face it people, DPS is mostly bad in fotm except it saves some time in dredge final boss. zerker warrior is bad in fotm (let’s admit zerker warrior is awesome in cof p1 first). In grawl shaman , dps is even your enemy (elite and reflection cooldown).
Condition thief with 2.6k armor 22k hp can keep 25 stack bleeding, 1 poison on all the time while melee in the face of boss. Try to top that damage with a zerker thief that uses sb?
Guardians: Shields, Heals, Condition Removals, Tons of Helpful Boons. A Must Have in order to not die overly much (costs time)
Warriors: Shout heals, Shake it off, On my Mark, Great Justice and 20k+ attacks. A Must Have in order to kill stuff efficiently.
Mesmer/Thief: Invisibility, Portals, Time Warps, General Sneakiness. A Must Have in order to do some of the trickier things, and to recover from kitten ups.
I personally play a Mesmer, so I always LFM for Warriors and Guardians. Makes sense, no? I’ve done over 500 Fractal runs at 30+ and I can’t name a single time that I would have said “oh boy I just wish we had that Elementalist/Engineer/Ranger” with us. That’s the other side of the coin of removing the Trinity. Some classes are just left behind.
Once everyone has learned “how to dodge” everything and every strategy, all thats left is to squeeze out dps on the boss. What better class to do this than the king of dps, Warriors. Guardians support the party so the warrior doesnt have to dodge as much nor run around like a little girl.
Yes, every class can do high lvl fractal, every dungeon, blah blah blah, other classes just do it better. Most people want better, not settle for “more risk”.
Better skill should always reward better performance. This is not the case with Guild Wars 2. There was a video on the forums comparing a high DPS engineer build against a warrior. Compared to the warrior the engineer has to work MUCH harder. And yet the warrior is still better.
Why take a non-soldier class if you can get the best results for the least amount of work? This is where the balancing in GW2 fails hard.
And looking at the history of GW1 I doubt that ANet will ever change this. Back in GW1 ANet was perfectly ok with the fact that only certain classes and builds where viable for certain tasks. Remember the mesmer and PvE?
In grawl shaman , dps is even your enemy (elite and reflection cooldown).
Against the grawl shaman, killing the adds faster is very useful, as for reflection cooldown, you shouldn’t use reflection until the adds spawn which is like every 25% hp taken from the boss so those skills will never be on CD when you need them. The boss himself doesn’t have any attack that can’t be dodged and using any sort of projectile reflection or protection skill before the adds spawn is a waste.
You don’t need dps to kill elements fast. On my condition thief, dagger storm on bubble+adds then short bow 2 aoe, the elements dies 2-3hits. They have very low hp, condition get them pretty fast. while zerker will die 1-2 hits to them.
It’s hard to not used anti-projectile when people are downed and ressing. So it’s always a good idea to wait for cool down before the bubble hp.
So yes, dps is EVEN your enemy in grawl shaman.
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