Guild Wars 2

Why the Viper should be better than Celestial???
Viper:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Viper_Horror
Celestial:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBmWD7kZTocTsbTwdTgeTs8LYxHxnYVkaL8FGWQJtAwHA-TRROwAE1NAY/hsKBjp87t6PAA-e
The celestial build give me a high survability (help also this trait: Augury of death, that such life, do damage and recharge faster the shouts) without have the trait line death magic.
I use the trait line spite that give me the possibility to reach always 25 stack of might, put on the enemy 25 stack of vulnerability, have 20% more damage (close to death) and 5% more of damage from the rune.
With soul marks, vital persistance, chilling victory and more life (celestial) i can play more often and long in reaper form (Usually i can finish a boss in reaper form).
My team mate always die in fractal and often i’m the last one to survive.
Let me know what you think…
Thank you have a nice day

Frost.1503:

My team mate always die in fractal and often i’m the last one to survive.

I have had such bad friends too. Deepest sympathy.

Try your build above levl 50 and later above 75. The viper will always outclass your dps and almost isn’t able to kill if someone is capable of playing the necro properly. Your friend is no benchmark.

Go to the golem and show us your dps.

Frost.1503:

My team mate always die in fractal and often i’m the last one to survive.

You play necro. Of course, survival isn’t difficult with that faceroll class. You would help your comrades more if you sacrificed some needless extra survivability from celestial gear for more damage. Killing mobs faster means less opportunities for your mates to screw up.

What on earth are you trying with that build? You have ZERO % condition duration on everything but chill (which doesn’t really matter anymore) and only 1/3 (~500) of the conditiondamage you should have (~1.5k+). You are playing with conditionbased weapons but use berserkerstats on them? Celestrial used to have every stat before HoT and the introduction of concentration and expertise (there where + boon duration and + condition duration stats on one statcombination but that was the exception). After the introduction of expretise celestrial became even more suboptimal for condition builds.
To be precise: over a longer battle you are cutting the potential conditiondamage of your build by half because you don’t use runes/sigills/bufffood/expertise to increase your condition duration. You are cutting your conditiondamage even more by using only ~500 condition damage. Might increases it to 1.2k but with 25 stacks of might you should have ~2.5k.
The ability to stack 25 Stacks of vulnerability on your own is nice in solo scenarios, but if you are playing with a group the boss will most likely always have 25 stacks of vulnerability. 25 Stacks might are mostly spreaded by a ps, but groups of mostly necros can buff themselves with blood is power. Your build stacks might only for yourself!
In terms of power damage: celestrial doesn’t grant you more power than viper+sinister. Viper(+sinister) provides more power than celestrial (~100)! Also viper mixed with sinister provides a bit more precision than celestrial.
In general you are sacrificing more than 75% of your damage for a bit survivability with your build. I would recommend not to use such a build in groupscenarios.
btw: a condition reaper doesn’t want to be like 100% of the time in his shroud. you may use it as a second lifebar in presure situations or just use #4 and leave or additional #3 and #5 in case you need CC. You can use #5 as an icefield to whirl in if you don’t need CC in the next minute.

Tornupto.2304:

What on earth are you trying with that build? You have ZERO % condition duration on everything but chill (which doesn’t really matter anymore) and only 1/3 (~500) of the conditiondamage you should have (~1.5k+). You are playing with conditionbased weapons but use berserkerstats on them? Celestrial used to have every stat before HoT and the introduction of concentration and expertise (there where + boon duration and + condition duration stats on one statcombination but that was the exception). After the introduction of expretise celestrial became even more suboptimal for condition builds.
To be precise: over a longer battle you are cutting the potential conditiondamage of your build by half because you don’t use runes/sigills/bufffood/expertise to increase your condition duration. You are cutting your conditiondamage even more by using only ~500 condition damage. Might increases it to 1.2k but with 25 stacks of might you should have ~2.5k.
The ability to stack 25 Stacks of vulnerability on your own is nice in solo scenarios, but if you are playing with a group the boss will most likely always have 25 stacks of vulnerability. 25 Stacks might are mostly spreaded by a ps, but groups of mostly necros can buff themselves with blood is power. Your build stacks might only for yourself!
In terms of power damage: celestrial doesn’t grant you more power than viper+sinister. Viper(+sinister) provides more power than celestrial (~100)! Also viper mixed with sinister provides a bit more precision than celestrial.
In general you are sacrificing more than 75% of your damage for a bit survivability with your build. I would recommend not to use such a build in groupscenarios.
btw: a condition reaper doesn’t want to be like 100% of the time in his shroud. you may use it as a second lifebar in presure situations or just use #4 and leave or additional #3 and #5 in case you need CC. You can use #5 as an icefield to whirl in if you don’t need CC in the next minute.

Inb4 they add a stat made with Celestial stuff that has Concentration and Expertise.

Lendruil.9061:

Go to the golem and show us your dps.

This is how much i do…
Can you show me with the viper how much damage you do??? Thank you
This damage is steady

Well, 1200 bleed and 2040 burning with 25 vuln and 25 might is… quite low… I can’t show you my dps ‘cause I’m not home but I’m sure the other can show you the difference.

LoL, this is ridiculously low.

Look at the condi reaper video of qT. Even though there are additional buffs used, the damage is way higher and steady!

Life reap 3000 is low? Can you show me your damage?
I can arrive to put 25 stack of vulnerability and 25 stack of might on me, and you?
Anyway i was using in that picture only the reaper

Amineo.8951:

Tornupto.2304:

What on earth are you trying with that build? You have ZERO % condition duration on everything but chill (which doesn’t really matter anymore) and only 1/3 (~500) of the conditiondamage you should have (~1.5k+). You are playing with conditionbased weapons but use berserkerstats on them? Celestrial used to have every stat before HoT and the introduction of concentration and expertise (there where + boon duration and + condition duration stats on one statcombination but that was the exception). After the introduction of expretise celestrial became even more suboptimal for condition builds.
To be precise: over a longer battle you are cutting the potential conditiondamage of your build by half because you don’t use runes/sigills/bufffood/expertise to increase your condition duration. You are cutting your conditiondamage even more by using only ~500 condition damage. Might increases it to 1.2k but with 25 stacks of might you should have ~2.5k.
The ability to stack 25 Stacks of vulnerability on your own is nice in solo scenarios, but if you are playing with a group the boss will most likely always have 25 stacks of vulnerability. 25 Stacks might are mostly spreaded by a ps, but groups of mostly necros can buff themselves with blood is power. Your build stacks might only for yourself!
In terms of power damage: celestrial doesn’t grant you more power than viper+sinister. Viper(+sinister) provides more power than celestrial (~100)! Also viper mixed with sinister provides a bit more precision than celestrial.
In general you are sacrificing more than 75% of your damage for a bit survivability with your build. I would recommend not to use such a build in groupscenarios.
btw: a condition reaper doesn’t want to be like 100% of the time in his shroud. you may use it as a second lifebar in presure situations or just use #4 and leave or additional #3 and #5 in case you need CC. You can use #5 as an icefield to whirl in if you don’t need CC in the next minute.

Inb4 they add a stat made with Celestial stuff that has Concentration and Expertise.

I mean why not at this point? Just keep it out of PvP and I think it should be fine really. Its not like there isn’t already easy access to those stats for WvW and it shouldn’t matter for PvE

Frost.1503:

Life reap 3000 is low? Can you show me your damage?
I can arrive to put 25 stack of vulnerability and 25 stack of might on me, and you?
Anyway i was using in that picture only the reaper

what does it matter if you can put 25 stacks of vulnerability on the target and might only on yourself.
25 stack of vulnerability is reached very easily by group anyways, and the 25 might should come from a PS Warrior or Rev (if the party doesnt have a PS) for the whole party anyway

If I’m too lazy too do a full complete rotation and just auto and BiP I deal 6k bleed and ~1k/3k poison… And I’m mot even full asc… So yeah, if this is your full rotation, max dps that’s very very low !

op is one of the reasons his party dies, but will wholeheartedly claim he is better than them cuz he survives longer ><

if he was using rise, he would not need the junk stats given by cele gear and could use viper to the same effect but with 3x the dps. by doing 3x the dps, fights are shorter and there is less opportunity for his friends to kill themselves.

Frost.1503:

Life reap 3000 is low? Can you show me your damage?
I can arrive to put 25 stack of vulnerability and 25 stack of might on me, and you?
Anyway i was using in that picture only the reaper

See video below of Dominik. Nothing more to add here in this thread.

insanemaniac.2456:

op is one of the reasons his party dies, but will wholeheartedly claim he is better than them cuz he survives longer ><

if he was using rise, he would not need the junk stats given by cele gear and could use viper to the same effect but with 3x the dps. by doing 3x the dps, fights are shorter and there is less opportunity for his friends to kill themselves.

Rise already seems to be included in his build…

Even a full power, non min-maxed necro does more dps, has more tankiness, and is just over all better than this. Celestial is garbage on necro.

Next.

Frost.1503:

Lendruil.9061:

Go to the golem and show us your dps.

This is how much i do…
Can you show me with the viper how much damage you do??? Thank you
This damage is steady

So, taking that picture you have 2s of damage shown (there is a DPS report, a much more reasonable thing to use rather than a clip of 2s of damage), using that and adding it up you’re doing 5277 DPS.

I just ran a simple rotation using the setup I was using for Matthias last night and cheap food (read not completely optimal for damage, plus I had lag spikes going in and out of RS ) I was able to get the picture below (6341 DPS).

As for some discounting Might/Vuln, this is where the ‘meta is a lie’ thing comes into play, you can’t always assume you’ll have those things provided, however it does mean that the more you’re utilizing those things yourself the less is left to buff your DPS from the team providing them (if you cap your own might then the PS warrior isn’t going to help you by providing a superfluous 25 stacks of might). So as you see in Dominik’s post given outside buffing the numbers grow and grow and in organized grouping that’s the goal (bring a PS war and Druid).

TLDR: I did a kittenty job and still beat what is to my best guess the DPS shown.

EDIT: Noticed I had more than 1mil total damage, my guess is it was counting self inflicted damage, but take the time and 1mil total damage and it’s 6329, so yeah still better

Tornupto.2304:

insanemaniac.2456:

op is one of the reasons his party dies, but will wholeheartedly claim he is better than them cuz he survives longer ><

if he was using rise, he would not need the junk stats given by cele gear and could use viper to the same effect but with 3x the dps. by doing 3x the dps, fights are shorter and there is less opportunity for his friends to kill themselves.

Rise already seems to be included in his build…

when one camps shroud, one does not use utilities

Jerus.4350:

Frost.1503:

Lendruil.9061:

Go to the golem and show us your dps.

This is how much i do…
Can you show me with the viper how much damage you do??? Thank you
This damage is steady

So, taking that picture you have 2s of damage shown (there is a DPS report, a much more reasonable thing to use rather than a clip of 2s of damage), using that and adding it up you’re doing 5277 DPS.

I just ran a simple rotation using the setup I was using for Matthias last night and cheap food (read not completely optimal for damage, plus I had lag spikes going in and out of RS ) I was able to get the picture below (6341 DPS).

As for some discounting Might/Vuln, this is where the ‘meta is a lie’ thing comes into play, you can’t always assume you’ll have those things provided, however it does mean that the more you’re utilizing those things yourself the less is left to buff your DPS from the team providing them (if you cap your own might then the PS warrior isn’t going to help you by providing a superfluous 25 stacks of might). So as you see in Dominik’s post given outside buffing the numbers grow and grow and in organized grouping that’s the goal (bring a PS war and Druid).

TLDR: I did a kittenty job and still beat what is to my best guess the DPS shown.

EDIT: Noticed I had more than 1mil total damage, my guess is it was counting self inflicted damage, but take the time and 1mil total damage and it’s 6329, so yeah still better

Thank you very much
Could you show me only the damage that come from your life reap(without food)? Could you take in the picture also your traits?
I can also use the golem or other utilty.
Please go to the chat and tick combact.
I’m sure that the viper dps is higher, just i would like know how much…
Because in Fractal i spend all my time to ress reaper, yeah high damage but if you go down every 2 minutes is better have less damage but steady.

Frost.1503:

Jerus.4350:

Frost.1503:

Lendruil.9061:

Go to the golem and show us your dps.

This is how much i do…
Can you show me with the viper how much damage you do??? Thank you
This damage is steady

So, taking that picture you have 2s of damage shown (there is a DPS report, a much more reasonable thing to use rather than a clip of 2s of damage), using that and adding it up you’re doing 5277 DPS.

I just ran a simple rotation using the setup I was using for Matthias last night and cheap food (read not completely optimal for damage, plus I had lag spikes going in and out of RS ) I was able to get the picture below (6341 DPS).

As for some discounting Might/Vuln, this is where the ‘meta is a lie’ thing comes into play, you can’t always assume you’ll have those things provided, however it does mean that the more you’re utilizing those things yourself the less is left to buff your DPS from the team providing them (if you cap your own might then the PS warrior isn’t going to help you by providing a superfluous 25 stacks of might). So as you see in Dominik’s post given outside buffing the numbers grow and grow and in organized grouping that’s the goal (bring a PS war and Druid).

TLDR: I did a kittenty job and still beat what is to my best guess the DPS shown.

EDIT: Noticed I had more than 1mil total damage, my guess is it was counting self inflicted damage, but take the time and 1mil total damage and it’s 6329, so yeah still better

Thank you very much
Could you show me only the damage that come from your life reap(without food)? Could you take in the picture also your traits?
I can also use the golem or other utilty.
Please go to the chat and tick combact.
I’m sure that the viper dps is higher, just i would like know how much…
Because in Fractal i spend all my time to ress reaper, yeah high damage but if you go down every 2 minutes is better have less damage but steady.

I think you dont understand how reaper Works. Life reap isnt not Even in the Rotation…
What you should do is to Show the overall Dps you do on the golem like in the Video i linked.
Also i dont really believe you saying you ress and carry other reapers with that Build

DPS means damage per second not biggest numbers. This is why Ele has higher DPS than warrior even though warrior hundred blades can hit 100k on VG.

You should really realize that celestial is bad, your build is bad and you have little to no understanding of how necro actually works in this game

Do you really think that thousands of GW2 PvE players cannot think up of this so called AMAZING celestial build but you can?

I mean, I can do more damage than you by AFK-ing and scepter 1 auto-ing on my viper necro even if you have 25 might and I have 0. I don’t have any trouble doing any level fractal, even mai trin at 100 I can survive easily with necro.

You assume that because the viper reapers you see go down a lot that celestial is better DPS wise because they’re always down. That is a false dichotomy. The reason they go down is because they’re bad and they’ll still probably go down in celestial or whatever.

When I run fracs with my casual friends who don’t really bother with might/quickness etc, I still get 10k bleeds on my viper necro and around 2k poison/torment give or take and maybe a lil bit of raw damage. You’re doing what 1k bleeds and 3k life reap which is just a joke. If you wanna be a res bot you might as well run a nomads druid or something, at least you’ll be semi useful.

Frost.1503:

Because in Fractal i spend all my time to ress reaper, yeah high damage but if you go down every 2 minutes is better have less damage but steady.

I highly doubt that you rez reapers every 2 minutes in fractals so I would call that a straight lie. Almost all the reapers aren’t even going downstate one single time during my pug runs over 3 T4 fractals and I do them every day.
Are you even playing T4? Maybe it’s like this in the lower tier section T1 or T2 where you have a massive amount of players new to fractals. It is very probable that your friend is a very bad player or at least new and inexperienced to the class necromancer. Only a few people aren’t running vipers in T4, it’s ridiculously easy and (one of) the fastest way to beat the encounters. Have a look at the lfg in T4 – there’s a reason people demanding necromancers more often than any other classes.

Jerus.4350:

(there is a DPS report, a much more reasonable thing to use rather than a clip of 2s of damage)

I looked for this report a while back while wailing on a golem and couldn’t find it, how do you trigger the DPS report?

Hesacon.8735:

Jerus.4350:

(there is a DPS report, a much more reasonable thing to use rather than a clip of 2s of damage)

I looked for this report a while back while wailing on a golem and couldn’t find it, how do you trigger the DPS report?

Assuming you mean the special forces area – if its not showing up check the chat tab options. It’s probably something in there.

Frost.1503:

Jerus.4350:

Frost.1503:

Lendruil.9061:

Go to the golem and show us your dps.

This is how much i do…
Can you show me with the viper how much damage you do??? Thank you
This damage is steady

So, taking that picture you have 2s of damage shown (there is a DPS report, a much more reasonable thing to use rather than a clip of 2s of damage), using that and adding it up you’re doing 5277 DPS.

I just ran a simple rotation using the setup I was using for Matthias last night and cheap food (read not completely optimal for damage, plus I had lag spikes going in and out of RS ) I was able to get the picture below (6341 DPS).

As for some discounting Might/Vuln, this is where the ‘meta is a lie’ thing comes into play, you can’t always assume you’ll have those things provided, however it does mean that the more you’re utilizing those things yourself the less is left to buff your DPS from the team providing them (if you cap your own might then the PS warrior isn’t going to help you by providing a superfluous 25 stacks of might). So as you see in Dominik’s post given outside buffing the numbers grow and grow and in organized grouping that’s the goal (bring a PS war and Druid).

TLDR: I did a kittenty job and still beat what is to my best guess the DPS shown.

EDIT: Noticed I had more than 1mil total damage, my guess is it was counting self inflicted damage, but take the time and 1mil total damage and it’s 6329, so yeah still better

Thank you very much
Could you show me only the damage that come from your life reap(without food)? Could you take in the picture also your traits?
I can also use the golem or other utilty.
Please go to the chat and tick combact.
I’m sure that the viper dps is higher, just i would like know how much…
Because in Fractal i spend all my time to ress reaper, yeah high damage but if you go down every 2 minutes is better have less damage but steady.

Life reap isn’t used in my build at all.

Traits are the standard for Condi Setup, Death magic 111, Curses was 213, and Reaper 232.

I’m not going to the chat and tick combat, that’s just plain kittened. Why would you compare damage potential and not use that handy new DPS report?

And, Viper DPS in a solo setting is about what I showed there if you don’t change your build at all. But, changing your build to say get chilling victory instead of decimate defenses (you’re not pushing any vuln with these traits anyways) I’d be getting much more might to increase it. Also I should have swapped traits but I just knew I could beat the dps you showed with the build I had going at the time.

In a group setting we’re looking at more like 15k+ depending on what kind of buffs your group is giving you.

If reapers are dying in Fractals it’s because they’re pretty poor players, reaper is almost invincible.

Hesacon.8735:

Jerus.4350:

(there is a DPS report, a much more reasonable thing to use rather than a clip of 2s of damage)

I looked for this report a while back while wailing on a golem and couldn’t find it, how do you trigger the DPS report?

Not sure the text option, but it reports every 20% of the golems health.

Necromancers have more than enough survivability and hence, have no need for survival stats. Better investment to get something more practical like full offensive sets.