Q:
Fractal abuse possible?
This was (unfortunately) possible prior to the patch.
Reading the patch notes can groups now kick us on last fractal boss (jade ) and invite their guildies/friends so they can get bonus daily with no effort? would like to know
1.If this is possible.
2.What protection we can get from this .Not been on the recieving end of this myself but i know a few guildies have been vote kicked when teams have gotten to the last jade area by people for no fault or reason of their own. Now we can join from Dc/or even if we were not in starting party.
1) Yes.
2) None.
Sucks I know. You’re pretty much forced into a guild to do anything now with the fractal and dungeon WP changes. In my opinion, ANet had a PuG poop in their wheetabix or something so are single-mindedly trying to kill them.
This was always possible.
Don’t you only need 2 people clicking yes in a 5 man group or something?
Well not that i care though, i don’t treadmill.
Why they refuse to implement a super majority vote kick policy is beyond stupid its blatant incompetence.
There is no protection from this, though you may be able to see it coming. If you enter a group of 4 with the same tag and act super nice to you, your brain should send signals to hit enter and type “/leave” and hit enter again immediately.
There is no protection from this, though you may be able to see it coming. If you enter a group of 4 with the same tag and act super nice to you, your brain should send signals to hit enter and type “/leave” and hit enter again immediately.
Yes because there is not a lot of super nice guild groups other there that invite someone to fill a hole in their coverage? I group with guilds all the time and have no issues. In my experience: play well, do not be an kitten and it will never be an issue.
~ AoN ~
This was (unfortunately) possible prior to the patch.
Possible yes, but the only use for it was pure griefing. Now that players can enter Fractals in progress, it’s possible to kick in order to invite guild members, as the OP indicated.
My take on it is that this is an unfortunate side-effect of a very necessary change. I experienced party members disconnecting from Fractals and being unable to re-enter vastly more frequently than I encountered teams kicking people mid-run, and the disconnection issue had the ability to be progress-blocking.
Why they refuse to implement a super majority vote kick policy is beyond stupid its blatant incompetence.
It’s already a majority vote. Think about it and do the math: There are 5 people in the group. One person votes to kick one other person. The person voting to be kicked obviously doesn’t get a vote because: A)They can’t see that they are being vote-kicked and 2) If they could vote they would obviously vote no. So, since they person being kicked doesn’t get a say in the matter, really there are only 4 maximum possible valid voters in any given situation. It requires 2 votes to kick someone. 2 out of 4 is what? 50%.
Unless you’re saying that it should require 3 votes to kick which would be a minimum of 75% to kick…
Although then what would happen when the group only has 4 people? It’d be 100%.
And when the group has 3 people? Then you couldn’t kick anyone.
And well, if the group has 2 people and you’re trying to kick the other person, you’ve got problems and you should really just leave group instead.
As the system currently is, if there are 3 people in a group, the other 2 people can kick the last person if they so wish.
As for the main topic at hand, this has always actually been an issue with Fractals and well, all dungeons in general. Although I am pretty sure Anet’s stance on this is that kicking people at the end of a dungeon is a punishable act although they don’t ban people on their first infraction. If this happens to you, I’d just report the people in the party and move on. Eventually people that do this as common practice will get perma-banned from the game for it.
Why they refuse to implement a super majority vote kick policy is beyond stupid its blatant incompetence.
It’s already a majority vote. Think about it and do the math: There are 5 people in the group. One person votes to kick one other person. The person voting to be kicked obviously doesn’t get a vote because: A)They can’t see that they are being vote-kicked and 2) If they could vote they would obviously vote no. So, since they person being kicked doesn’t get a say in the matter, really there are only 4 maximum possible valid voters in any given situation. It requires 2 votes to kick someone. 2 out of 4 is what? 50%.
Super majorities are defined in the American parlance as a two-thirds majority, or 66%. Do the math, 50% does not equal 66%.
What they should have done was Flag the people upon entering in that particular fractal. If one person gets disconnected, they have the opportunity to return in that fractal instance because they were flagged at the start. However, if someone chooses to leave on their own accord, give the group the option to invite another as that flagged person, gave up their spot. When you join a pug you are essentially gambling on the type of people you are going to get. Although never been kicked, I imagine it sucks to be that person being kicked.
[NaCl]
Why they refuse to implement a super majority vote kick policy is beyond stupid its blatant incompetence.
It’s already a majority vote. Think about it and do the math: There are 5 people in the group. One person votes to kick one other person. The person voting to be kicked obviously doesn’t get a vote because: A)They can’t see that they are being vote-kicked and 2) If they could vote they would obviously vote no. So, since they person being kicked doesn’t get a say in the matter, really there are only 4 maximum possible valid voters in any given situation. It requires 2 votes to kick someone. 2 out of 4 is what? 50%.
Super majorities are defined in the American parlance as a two-thirds majority, or 66%. Do the math, 50% does not equal 66%.
Yes, cut off my quote there and completely ignore everything else I said in my post. Good job.
Yes, cut off my quote there and completely ignore everything else I said in my post. Good job.
Okay, let’s examine the other glaring flaws in your argument.
It’s already a majority vote. Think about it and do the math: There are 5 people in the group. One person votes to kick one other person. The person voting to be kicked obviously doesn’t get a vote because: A)They can’t see that they are being vote-kicked and 2) If they could vote they would obviously vote no. So, since they person being kicked doesn’t get a say in the matter, really there are only 4 maximum possible valid voters in any given situation. It requires 2 votes to kick someone. 2 out of 4 is what? 50%.
Ignores the “super” in super majority and addresses the issue on terms irrelevant to the post this was a reply to. Also states that the person being kicked doesn’t get a vote – true – and therefore doesn’t count towards the percentage necessary – which is debatable. Abstentions don’t typically get removed from vote tallies.
Unless you’re saying that it should require 3 votes to kick which would be a minimum of 75% to kick…
Although then what would happen when the group only has 4 people? It’d be 100%.
And when the group has 3 people? Then you couldn’t kick anyone.
And well, if the group has 2 people and you’re trying to kick the other person, you’ve got problems and you should really just leave group instead.As the system currently is, if there are 3 people in a group, the other 2 people can kick the last person if they so wish.
Straw man argument. The post clearly stated “super majority,” not “3 votes to kick.” The number of votes necessary to obtain a two-thirds majority decreases based on size of team. If we assume your system of abstentions-don’t-count-at-all, then a team size of 5 would require 3 votes for a vote kick, but a team of 4 and 3 would require 2.
If however we assume a system in which abstentions do count towards the total number of votes, as is the norm, then a team size of 5 requires 4 votes, a team size of 4 requires 3, and a team size of 3 requires 2.
In any case, if the team is of size 2, there’s no difference between attempting to kick and simply leaving the team.
As for the main topic at hand, this has always actually been an issue with Fractals and well, all dungeons in general. Although I am pretty sure Anet’s stance on this is that kicking people at the end of a dungeon is a punishable act although they don’t ban people on their first infraction. If this happens to you, I’d just report the people in the party and move on. Eventually people that do this as common practice will get perma-banned from the game for it.
Included for the sake of completeness; not relevant to the above.
(edited by Blueshield.6291)
Why they refuse to implement a super majority vote kick policy is beyond stupid its blatant incompetence.
yup should take every one in the group except the party getting kicked saying yes before kicking should be possible.
Why they refuse to implement a super majority vote kick policy is beyond stupid its blatant incompetence.
yup should take every one in the group except the party getting kicked saying yes before kicking should be possible.
Because then you wouldn’t be able to kick 2 trolls.
Snipped for space
Why they refuse to implement a super majority vote kick policy is beyond stupid its blatant incompetence.
yup should take every one in the group except the party getting kicked saying yes before kicking should be possible.
Well, see the problem with this suggestion of taking 4 out of 5 people to kick anyone is fundamentally flawed based on the fact that if 2 people joined a group together, they would be impossible to kick. Even in the case that they were horrible players, refused to follow the group, aggroed every mob possible, didn’t follow the game mechanics, caused constant wipes to the group, and were disrespectful to everyone else in the group, they would not be able to be kicked. THEN you would have people complaining in the forums about THAT and begging Anet to fix the kick system.
Personally I would say that 3/5, 2/4, 2/3 would be a good compromise, which really is only changing the situation in a full party and remains exactly the same in every other possible group composition.
So, instead of saying, “super majority” how about we just ask Anet to make it 3/5 instead of 2/5?
Personally I’ve always disliked the idea of 2 random people being able to join a group and kick everyone else. Especially considering the fact that anyone can invite anyone else to the group, 1 person could join, invite their friend, and the 2 of them could proceed to kick the other 3 people in the party — that’s not fair or balanced.
As for the issue of abstentions counting towards their vote is a moot point. People being kicked are not made aware that there is a vote going on, and they do NOT get a vote in the game as the whether or not they should be allowed to stay. That is a fact and is not up for debate.
Ya you can get kicked and replaced. The only protection is if you zoned the party or you know the players otherwise you run the risk of getting kicked so they can invite friends
Personally I would say that 3/5, 2/4, 2/3 would be a good compromise, which really is only changing the situation in a full party and remains exactly the same in every other possible group composition.
So, instead of saying, “super majority” how about we just ask Anet to make it 3/5 instead of 2/5?
I concur, and I have indicated such in several threads requesting party system/kick vote reform. The specific numbers outlined in my above post were there to illustrate how you were creating a straw man argument in response to the super majority comment.
Super majorities aren’t effective in such small sample sizes, but what we should have are actual majorities. Again, abstentions still count toward the total number of votes, so, as you outlined, the number of votes required would be 3/5, 2/4, and 2/3.
This has the unfortunate side effect of not preventing guild groups from kicking players to invite guildmates for the final reward, which is the OP’s entire point. However, there is simply no way to prevent it in all circumstances. No matter how many votes are required, there’s at least one potential victim of a kick; a party leader system is equally abusable, requiring only one troll/tyrant to kick others. But requiring actual majorities should nevertheless cut down on abuse.
As for the issue of abstentions counting towards their vote is a moot point. People being kicked are not made aware that there is a vote going on, and they do NOT get a vote in the game as the whether or not they should be allowed to stay. That is a fact and is not up for debate.
You accuse me of taking things out of context, and then take the issue of the person being kicked out of context? I clearly never stated that they should have a say in the question of whether they are kicked, I simply indicated that their presence in the team is essential in determining how many votes are required for a majority.
(edited by Blueshield.6291)
Report people who do this. WoW has far more trolls than I’ve come across in GW2 and this never happened to me, not even once. All these people fighting problems that haven’t happened yet, it’s possible, yes. Is it probable? No. Players are better behaved than that in general and their are actions that can be taken with support if this situation does arise.
As a down side to this if you do act like an idiot then maybe you should be booted but not just to allow guildies to join. Problem is soon as your kicked the group chat log dissapears so you also have no proof that they did this for any other reason than what they say. Happy that people can rejoin but i think the kick from party should be removed after completion of fractal 1