Guild Wars 2

Have many pug groups you guys had which just pretty much wasted your time? I’m talking about just failing on any particular parts of fractals and forcing the group to disband because 1 or more people wasn’t up to the task?

This got me thinking again, and who is really at fault here? Poor co-ordinated players? Poorly equipped players? Players expecting free rides? Or poor dungeon designs? Personally, I think the problem is pretty much all of the above and more ~

Two pug groups on low level fractals today, both failed ~ first group failed because Dredge Powersuit boss, failing to understand directions even though they was clearly given, to the defense of that first group ~ they admitted, they was new to fractals.

Second group, failing on cliff side on the final set of seals, no matter what direction was given ~ alternate each side…they didn’t listen, after about 15 minutes of frustration, I just had enough and alt/F4’d out.

Its not just fractals though, dungeons in general sometimes just require too much from the players, anet…ncsoft…nexon whoever owns GW2 – please, look at these aspects. You don’t have to necessarily make them much easier, but I think the average pug group needs to have at least be able to clear the content without breaking up.

Learn better communication skills and use them. The mechanics of the fractals are not that difficult to grasp… but the mechanics of teamplay seems to be far out of the realm of many players capabilities… and those failings mostly revolve in the arena of poor communication and worse execution.

Its not really about communication is it though? Its about teamwork, quite often your not going to get a team which is going to co-operate and thats when frustration sets in because, there are many encounters/bosses which require a very specific strategy to win.

Anet fails in that respect because quite a few of these strategies are very pug unfriendly ~ CM/Arah/CoE and to a lesser extent some parts of fractals.

I think this is why you tend to get some very irate guild leaders who are constantly screaming down Vent/TS ~

Oh my! An MMO that requires communication and teamwork! Nerf nao plz.

Yes you get really thick people sometimes. But mostly it’s ok. Add good people to friendlist and do fractals with them. Or join a nice guild. I almost always pug in fractals and have finished in like 98% of runs.

It’s simple, really. The majority of players are mechanically pathetic and give no kittens about optimizing gear/traits/skills/weps per what’s optimal for their team. A perfect example is me expecting a quick 22 run for my daily but being stuck on cliffside for nearly an hour because of idiots like the ranger in my group who is still using human racial abilities.

In the end, though — This is my fault for not seeking a guild better suited for such things.

bluewanders.5297:

Learn better communication skills and use them. The mechanics of the fractals are not that difficult to grasp… but the mechanics of teamplay seems to be far out of the realm of many players capabilities… and those failings mostly revolve in the arena of poor communication and worse execution.

/thread

I feel your pain. In the end, it would be best for your mental health to add particularly competent and friendly people you had the pleasure of grouping with.

I wouldn’t really say it’s in the dungeon design. The mechanics you mentioned involved alternating hammers and the dredge fractals are by no means complicated. Sometimes, you just get extremely incompetent people no matter which game you’re playing.

unfortunately discussing these matters on the forum is a waste of time….

Since there are players that whatever the dungeon issue is will come here shouting L2P (try to say isn t so, there isn t a single thread without that answer) and professing they can beat any dungeon even without the keyboard and the mouse….

denying that there are issues in fractals because you can complete them is just bad for the game..

We have:
-invisible boss that attack from invisible until he kills you….
-many enemies attacking spawnpoint
-a part that requires stealth to be completed…
-a part where failing once makes too many oppnents spawn…(well 15 stacks of vulnerability are too many).
-some almost invisible agony Attacks that oneshot most builds…
-many other problems……
-a boss either too easy or insanely difficult depending on wich classes you have in party…..
-not to talk about grawl veterans….
-AR mechanics unclear to a lot of players…..(how many players attempt lvl 20+ with 5 or less AR .-.? if AR if supposed to be a requirement is not good that anybody can play any level).

there are a lot of things they should change…..the fcat that those can be played around doesn t make them fair or fun….

If the mechanics of the fractals are so wrong (imbalanced, stupid, unfair, etc.) how come so many, many people do them constantly everyday? There are hundreds of PUGs every hour doing the fractals, the ones that fail are a very minor subset.
Yes there are issues, but those only affect you at high levels, levels that no one is forced to do. There is nothing wrong with difficult content that some people are unable to do because they simply aren’t skilled or informed enough.

No LordByron, it is only a L2P issue, but of course you don’t like the answer, is always preferable for someone else to change the external conditions then to do the effort to improve your skills (both gameplay and comunication).

Dungeons / Fractals do not need a nerf. People need to state that they are new to something before the run is started. If this is stated, then your demeaning attitude is not warranted. You can choose to stay and help new players or nicely leave before the run starts. Sometimes it takes people multiple tries to learn something.

bluewanders.5297:

Learn better communication skills and use them. The mechanics of the fractals are not that difficult to grasp… but the mechanics of teamplay seems to be far out of the realm of many players capabilities… and those failings mostly revolve in the arena of poor communication and worse execution.

There are five people in a party. You can only control the communication skills of one of them. You can communicate all you want to some people, it won’t make a difference.

bluewanders.5297:

Learn better communication skills and use them. The mechanics of the fractals are not that difficult to grasp… but the mechanics of teamplay seems to be far out of the realm of many players capabilities… and those failings mostly revolve in the arena of poor communication and worse execution.

Read the highlighted part to exaustion. When it is imprinted on your soul read the rest.

Anet is not responsible for people stupidity and never can fix this.

The last level 10 runs were extremely frustrating for me (im at 26 currently).
Some of the players obviously never set foot in any/some fotm level before, others have but didnt know the added difficulties at higher levels.
Adding the problem that 90% of players are angry at you because you want to explain some specific mechanics and of course dont follow your instructions and fail while doing it.
It seems that a lot of them want to learn it on their own, wich is fine by me, but pretty please not on a level 10 run, where i specifically asked for experienced players!

Anet can fix part of the problem by dividing fractals into brackets
1-9 / 10-19 / 20-29 and so on…
They also should highlight that doing a run on a much higher level then your current one gives no extra/better loot whatsoever.
The small text on the right top corner obviously isnt enough.

supergica.8652:

If the mechanics of the fractals are so wrong (imbalanced, stupid, unfair, etc.) how come so many, many people do them constantly everyday? There are hundreds of PUGs every hour doing the fractals, the ones that fail are a very minor subset.

for the same reason people farm like living bots at orr i suppose….

No LordByron, it is only a L2P issue,

Its not…and you proved my point…
I have no problems at fotm….

I have a problem elitists do not have…
I sometimes go in fotm with pugs, (or i d better call them random players).
Also i can see wich probolem lvl 1 have because sometimes i help new players….

P.S. fractals doesn t need NERF, they need FIX <===
And not only on glicth helping players but also to those against players.

There are some players who no matter what, refuse to listen. No amount of communication gets through to them. What usually winds up happening is tons of frustration, or carrying that person through the fractal.

Fixing a lot of issues in fractals will help people rely less on exploits and glitches. But it won’t change the fact that many people are incompetent when it comes to basic mechanics.

Obviously it’s players fault if they fail this bad, you said it yourself.

“Have many pug groups you guys had which just pretty much wasted your time? I’m talking about just failing on any particular parts of fractals and forcing the group to disband because 1 or more people wasn’t up to the task?”

There’s nothing anyone can do anything about it, except the actual player that is struggling. I had groups that were just a joy to be in, breezing past everything with minimal effort, I also had groups that just waisted my time.

There is a quick fix for that, find some people that are genuinely good at the game and run fractals with them and not random groups if you can.

In my 200 so far fractals, I’ve run into 2 bad pugs. 1 in a 100 isn’t so bad. Most of the time complainers like this are just scrubs that whine if everything isn’t done in the fastest most efficient way ever. I’m sure they’re always polite and supportive of their teammates….

Frankly, I think the problem is that there are some players who really know their stuff, know their build inside and out and are just generally, very capable players — and these players expect the same from those they run with. That everyone should be exceptional players, have done their due diligence by researching their builds and optimizing them to a “T” and always be on the ball. If a player doesn’t live up to those standards, they are “bads”, “nubs” or “timewasters”.

Sure, there are players out there who just aren’t good at the game (nor any game, likely) and don’t take it all that seriously. But I doubt there are nearly as many as the anguished outcry seems to dictate.

I think it’s mostly just a case of arrogant gamers who are legitimately good at what they do, posting complaints whenever they encounter someone who slows them up by so much as a nanosecond. It’s likely that these “good” players could easily accommodate and overcome any such speed bump — they just resent needing to. Better to kitten and denigrate than to suffer any kind of hiccup in their run.

The solution, as always, is to stop PUGging. Find the other cool kids out there who believe as you do, and group only with them. Maybe start a guild with membership relying on the successful completion of a competency test, to prove they’ve got the right stuff, then only group with them. Hopefully, not only will that spare you from wasting your time gaming with the proles, but it will also save the proles from gaming with you. I’m not even sure who would benefit most from that.

I read posts about fractals and watched some videos but it doesn’t give the average player enough information. I believe Fractals is very easy content now that I’ve been running it for a bit. But I recall when I first entered fractals and asked good questions I rarely got answers. For the most part I learned by doing. So be it. But I made mistakes and occasionally still do.

Its easy to put the blame on someone else. Happens all the time in dungeons. Elitists pointing fingers yet they dont know the content themselves. Most players comprehend just fine so when they say “I dont know this” or “my first time doing this” they are perfectly ok when someone takes 60 seconds to explain the event or boss.
The only time this fails is when there is a language barrier which does happen.

Ultimately the best answer is to group with the same people all the time but some of us dont have that luxury. I mean that sounds simple enough but it can be very difficult to find that steady group.

I can understand why some pug groups are forced to dissolve at low fractal levels. They might not know the system yet and need experience. I respect that and try to teach them. Those who doesn’t listen though must be kicked. If you don’t know what to do, at least try to listen to the more experienced players. NO excuse!

But what I don’t understand is that some pugs at even level 10 still doesn’t know what to do!!! How could they get to level 10 and still have no idea how to do the fractals?!?

There are a lot of awesome written guides and videos to show you the way! Use them guys!.

Voip in game.
Problem sorta solved..
Most likely you just hear people singing….

But the game needs Voip for better SOCIAL & COMMUNICATION that the game lacks atm.

Edit – I mean for a net to implement in game party voip

Voip and Chat programs for Pugs now….

I say 100% its Dungeon mechanics and cheap tactics that disband groups certain parts are designed to kill you no matter what, remove gear costs and fix the cheap kitten.. then teams wont need to disband..

Thz.7569:

It’s simple, really. The majority of players are mechanically pathetic and give no kittens about optimizing gear/traits/skills/weps per what’s optimal for their team. A perfect example is me expecting a quick 22 run for my daily but being stuck on cliffside for nearly an hour because of idiots like the ranger in my group who is still using human racial abilities.

In the end, though — This is my fault for not seeking a guild better suited for such things.

So true, terrible players unable to learn basic mechanics the game is built upon with total lack of skill and awareness.

I love running to save a guy, taking his aggro, then getting downed, fighting for rally, while he uses his ‘4’ self rez.
Outcome: I die, he attacks the almost dead enemy and rallies. Always makes me want to kill something.

On a side note, when I see a ranger in my party, I usually quit and look for another one. Chances are, that player is a girl or just a terribad wanting a WoW hunter experience with no basic knowledge of his class. Ranger in your party in PvE? Save your time and leave.

leman.7682:

On a side note, when I see a ranger in my party, I usually quit and look for another one. Chances are, that player is a girl or just a terribad wanting a WoW hunter experience with no basic knowledge of his class. Ranger in your party in PvE? Save your time and leave.

Sooo many things wrong with this…. So you don’t play with girls, eh? They’re worse than you at, say, everything? Maybe you meant something else, but it sounds like you’re a kittening moron.

leman.7682:

On a side note, when I see a ranger in my party, I usually quit and look for another one. Chances are, that player is a girl or just a terribad wanting a WoW hunter experience with no basic knowledge of his class. Ranger in your party in PvE? Save your time and leave.

Weird, I would’ve guessed Elementalist and Mesmer for profs most likely to appeal to girls. Or Asura anything.

As a Ranger, I have to admit, there are a ton of, shall we say subpar players on an already lackluster prof. I myself get a flash of doubt if a Ranger joins a group that isn’t from within the guild.

leman.7682:

On a side note, when I see a ranger in my party, I usually quit and look for another one. Chances are, that player is a girl or just a terribad wanting a WoW hunter experience with no basic knowledge of his class. Ranger in your party in PvE? Save your time and leave.

That’s an entirely unsubstantiated and ridiculous claim.

I pugged my way to fractal lv 40 (before last patch) and there failed a grand total of 5-6 times due to poor communication/bad players. The first time I ran Fractal, back when it was just released, we had a player disconnect midway but we noticed it only half an hour later. Granted, I may have been lucky, as a friend of mine’s pugs seems to fail at least 1/4 of the times, but still.

You complain about non-PUG-friendly strategies but I ask you, what strategy is pug-friendly except the non-existing one? Nothing requires extreme coordination ( the dreaded swamp can be done in 1 attempt with certain pugs ) and dungeons were meant to be “hard” content. Not everything has to be AC/COF/HOTW.

Sarcasmic.6741:

leman.7682:

On a side note, when I see a ranger in my party, I usually quit and look for another one. Chances are, that player is a girl or just a terribad wanting a WoW hunter experience with no basic knowledge of his class. Ranger in your party in PvE? Save your time and leave.

As a Ranger, I have to admit, there are a ton of, shall we say subpar players on an already lackluster prof. I myself get a flash of doubt if a Ranger joins a group that isn’t from within the guild.

I’m sorry to say that I often feel the same way when I see a ranger in a group. I’ve had too many just stand (stand and only stand) in healing spring while the rest of the party dies, thinking that they are contributing to the group. Also, that push skill. Why do so many hit it on cool down knocking enemies out of AoE. I’ve missed so many mind wracks due to a ranger rescuing the enemy.