Guild Wars 2

Fractals, pinnacle of dungeon experience in gw2, one that puts the biggest challenge in front of the pve player, who valiantly turns 180 degrees and promply walks away. Least I do, because there’s no real incentive to put myself through them.

Take a look at spvp and it’s reward tracks. Now back at fractals. Now back at spvp. Now back at fractals. Random, miliscule chance to get fractal skin is not reward track’s 100% guaranteed reward, be it dungeon gear, pvp glorious armor pieces or ambrite insects. You may not rock like spvp, but if you at least had decent reward system you’d pass as the poor cousin among gw2 end game activities. But you’re not and you don’t. Till you up your game in motivation department i’ll be staying way away from you, fractals of the mists.

I agree that Fractals need better loot, or an entirely different loot system altogether similar to the overhaul that SPvP got.
I do not, however, do Fractals for the loot, but for the fun.

we already have a fractal currency, they could just add more usage to it… more skins, infusions etc, so we don’t need to farm until it drop, but until it drop OR until we have enough currency

PS: do you know how long we waited for some solid reward system in SPvP? and I don’t even mention that most people wanted skill based reward system, reward tracks are just a farm in fancy dress… it’s better than nothing and obviously wins give more progress, but sadly wins on higher tier doesn’t, so it doesn’t really matter how good you are, it’s only about win ratio without a context of rating

I think the OP’s issue is not so much the lack of reward but rather the system works. He is saying that PvP has a system that guarantees you a reward commensurate with the effort you put in while Fractals is completely random.

My issue is with lack of a 100% certain way to get a fractal skin. Cause that’s what i would deem worthy to put my time into that.

For over 2 years i did not approach pvp with a 6 foot pole, because i was certain i would get wrecked like no tommorow. Then i learned you can get 100% guaranteed ambrite fossils by doing a reward track and i dived in. Turns out i do far better then expected, and it went to the point where i’m sighing “Why can’t i turn the reward track off, i’m drowning in these kitten boxes”.

But the point is that a good reward system which ensures unique or rare rewards of player’s choosing for their effort without RNG bs is what gets people to come. Some will just do it for reward, but some might get hooked along the way like I did and lured out of their shell with it. Fractals failed to provide such a reward system so far, and i know how long and ugly a higher level fractal can get.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

My issue is with lack of a 100% certain way to get a fractal skin. Cause that’s what i would deem worthy to put my time into that.

I agree. if there was a certain way to get the fractal sword without any RNG bullkitten, i’d start doing fractals right now.

we already have a fractal currency, they could just add more usage to it… more skins, infusions etc, so we don’t need to farm until it drop, but until it drop OR until we have enough currency

they havent even added all the new stat combinations of the rings yet. (pristine) fractal relics is just such a kitten currency. thrown into the game and then forgotten about a few weeks later.

I hate fractals. I hate the point I must look for a party to do them, same a most dungeons, because reasons, so then I have to get exposed to the toxic community that lives within the fractals.

anduriell.6280:

I hate fractals. I hate the point I must look for a party to do them, same a most dungeons, because reasons, so then I have to get exposed to the toxic community that lives within the fractals.

Most people, especially if you do higher lvl fracs, are actually very welcoming, knowledgeable, and willing to help. The lower lvl ones usually have more dregs.

Realistically speaking, fractals just need something more that you could buy with relics.

Most loot problems within fractals can be fixed by updating the vendors.

Its not uncommon to leave a fractal rune with a handful of rares, and exotic or two, a few cores/lodestones. RNG permitted you can make 2-5 gold from loot drops alone (using BL salvage kits on any of those account bound exotics you get). Completion rewards lead much to be desired though. Ascended chest are cool I guess and have pretty fair drop rates. Fractal skins are still pretty nonexistence, which is sad because I remember them dropping a lot more before they introduced the wardrobe. Fractal currency is pretty much useless to those who have grinded to 50 and the gold reward for finishing doesn’t come close to even undesirable explorable dungeon paths.

I agree with this, also the dungeons should have the reward line respective to the dungeon. That way you have reward tracks for three game modes (pvp,wvw and dungeon running) I guess there could even be an open world event line too, then everyone is catered too.

The fractal skin have a 10% drop rate at 31+. So it ain’t so bad.

I only done fractal for a few month and I’m already at 16 skins.

Obviously I do fractal almost everyday in the few month. So people that don’t do them often, might have a hard time getting them.

As you get more and more, you get a bunch of duplicate though. And it’ll take a while to complete the set.

laokoko.7403:

The fractal skin have a 10% drop rate at 31+. So it ain’t so bad.

I only done fractal for a few month and I’m already at 16 skins.

Stop protecting the devs. 10% (it’s actually ~9.2%) drop rate for random fractal skin, so it’s a ~0.5% drop rate for exact skin.

So you’ve done fractals for like 160 times (probably more, lot more, because you still can get skins you already have i guess) and yet you still don’t have all skins.
Nice grind you have there my friend. Good luck looting 3 remaning skins.

^ I already said what you said in the last sentence.

And what are you going to do after you get everything you wanted from fractal? Complain it don’t drop anything good like other people?

And tell me what else am I going to do, I don’t wvw much, I stopped doing dungeon, I dont’ spvp, what else am I going to do when I log on. Stop calling everything a grind.

If all I care about the rewards, I won’t even be leaving town and spend all day doing trading post.

Problem is that with probabilities so low (yes, even 10% is low, much less 0.5%), number of samples needed to arrive to that value increases dramatically. That is while some people might get lucky get the skin the want in 20 runs, others will still not get the skin they want after 2000. Even doing a daily 38 fractal this could easily mean no skin for several years. Not reasonable. Especially considering the fact that pristine fractal relic currency already exists and does not have enough uses.

Instead we are getting fractal level increased past 50 and another RNG chance of getting a ‘pick your skin’ chest. I just don’t see it. Why not start adding fractal armor past 50 and add skins to merchant for something like stack of pristine relics? Ok, I do see it. More work, have to design an extra armor set. Let them keep playing the roulette.

EDIT: If you want a never-ending hamster wheel, I guess fractals as they are right now ARE your thing. I am a strange person who wants to be able to see some progress toward my goal instead of playing a RNG game where ~40+ minutes of my time is used as an entry fee.

well getting the skins you want is indeed difficult. I actually really want the swords that I’m missing.

I think someone is bored enough to run computer simulation on fractal drop. It might take 1000+ run to get the skins you want.

But you should get some skins if you run fractal for month. I’m not sure why people keep saying things like “Even doing a daily 38 everyday, it could easily mean no skin for several years”. I dont’ think statistically it is likely.

I dont’ have any compiler on my computer, but I’ll actually go find one and test it.

I tested the theory if it is possible to run fractal38 everyday for a year and not get a skin. I ran it 100 million times and I get at least a skin every time.

I found a site that can compile c and excute programs online.

http://www.tutorialspoint.com/compile_c_online.php

Using kings drop research from fractal: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18IHVJao5j85KOp6lBTOgO8qs4VYD3Xty-jKPZo8o-Q4/pubhtml

I think you’re missing the point laokoko, it’s not so much that it’s improbable, it’s that every fractal you do brings you no closer to your goal. You make 0 progress unless you get lucky. It’s an all or nothing and usually… nothing. That kinda sucks.

That said, I don’t want fractals to turn into another gold farm, I think the fact that it isn’t is what makes fractals a bit more pleasant than most dungeons as far as the social aspect is concerned (at least in my experience). Either way, over half the fractals I run I do purely for fun as I’ve done things like 5 50’s in a day >.<.

I’d hate if fractals became the new gold grind. That being said there’s a lot of ways to improve rewards. I think everyone would love to be able to work towards their skins more easily. The current RnG means someone who does his first lvl 11 could get the skin you already ran 500+ lvl 50s for (happened to me). That’s not a great system. If they wanted to keep “prestige” alive and keep them rare, skins shouldn’t drop under level 30 at least.

Another thing I find strange is that it’s almost impossible to work towards full ascended in fractals. In other games when they bring out a new gear tier and tie it to certain content like raids, you are able to work towards gearing up consistently in said raids. In fractals however this is not possible even though it is required to level up. It’s much easier to do it through crafting which requires gold, for which fractals isn’t even an optimal grind… Now for me it’s too late, I already got all my armors. But still, not logical imo.

Yeah, always thought Dragonite at least should be a fractal reward so you could make it from playing there. But, not much of an issue anymore with SW being the farm it is.

Jerus.4350:

Yeah, always thought Dragonite at least should be a fractal reward so you could make it from playing there. But, not much of an issue anymore with SW being the farm it is.

While that’s true, I needed to do SW chestfarm for an hour for my last armor set. Dear god, is that boring… Never thought I’d find something in gw2 that makes the queensdale champtrain look interesting. =/

I must say before that I got most of it from pvp.

I just find VW maps and melee the bosses for funsies, still boring waiting for the bosses but it doesn’t put me to sleep like chest farming does. I seriously can’t do the chestfarm for more than a few minutes before it’s bedtime for me.

These threads keep coming up.. maybe anet should make all the fractal skins limited gem store items for alittle bit. Then you all can all get the skins you want and never show and/or come near fractals ever again.

I just want fractals to reward me appropriately for my time. I want gold for various things in game so i have to make a choice of enjoying fractals but being totally unrewarded. Or doing dungeons and making good progress towards buying skins. The game should not be that poorly balanced in terms of rewards. Its especially frustrating that the most challenging content is the least rewarding.

Making fractals more rewarding wont make it the new gold grind. Most players arent good enough to do high levels fractals fast and consistantly. Even with major gold buffs to fractals dungeons would still be a better gold grind for the average player. But for experienced players it might be different.

spoj.9672:

I just want fractals to reward me appropriately for my time. I want gold for various things in game so i have to make a choice of enjoying fractals but being totally unrewarded. Or doing dungeons and making good progress towards buying skins. The game should not be that poorly balanced in terms of rewards. Its especially frustrating that the most challenging content is the least rewarding.

Making fractals more rewarding wont make it the new gold grind. Most players arent good enough to do high levels fractals fast and consistantly. Even with major gold buffs to fractals dungeons would still be a better gold grind for the average player. But for experienced players it might be different.

I think its because silverwaste and dungeons rewards are extremely good that makes fractal rewards look bad. They really arent bad, its just next to them it looks like nothing. As you said in another thread the rewards pass a point could be better suited for regulars although Im very worried about the balance

How is that any different from them being bad? Whether the rewards are good or bad individually is irrelevant. Its their relative reward compared to other areas of differing difficulty which matters. And seeing as rewards in GW2 are generally bad across the board it makes more sense to buff unrewarding areas to create a proper difficulty reward balance.

Areas which are considered to have good rewards are only considered to have good rewards because of their relative position compared to other areas. So what you are saying doesnt really make sense. You could buff/nerf the rewards across all areas of the game and the disparity in rewards would still be the same. Silverwastes and dungeons would still be considered good rewards compared to others and all others would still be considered bad. The balance of rewards needs to be fixed. Which means fractal rewards needs to be buffed or all other areas need to be heavily nerfed. Its as simple as that. :P

Curious for the arguments sake, has anyone actually broken down your average reward in a fractal compared to that of a dungeon tour? Figure you can do fractal 40&50 in an hour (very possible for good groups as I understand it), compared to say SE1/3,Arah1/2,AC1-3 (that’s about an hour aye?)

Personally I’m of the belief that challenge should not dictate monetary reward, or moreover I feel that ANet has taken that idea and I agree with it. I do think extra challenge should open up some unique or account bound rewards though.

And as much as I don’t mind the loot quality of Fractals I do HATE RNG so I’d love to see adjustments made to how it handles loot, but I’m just there for the fun either way so not worried either way, just give me new fractals to have fun in

I don’t want to see fractal skins tradeable or in the gem store. I do want to see a way to progress toward earning them that doesn’t involve RNG. Hopefully that’s what the fractal mastery will be about in HoT (and more skins)!

Sarahfull.4930:

These threads keep coming up.. maybe anet should make all the fractal skins limited gem store items for alittle bit. Then you all can all get the skins you want and never show and/or come near fractals ever again.

Fractal rewards are lacking atm. I still run them every day because they’re fun, but why should we not get rewarded for it? There’s plenty they could do.

- Add all stat combos. I’d quite like an ascended assassins backpiece/rings by now. Also the fact that new stat combos are not in the chests is just terrible. I’m sitting on 10+ malicious chests and can’t even get sinister from it.

- Make ascended drop more reliably. If they wanna force us to gear up for fractals, it seems only logical they would add an option to do it through fractals.

- Skins… well I don’t really have the answer for that, but at the very least give us that skin box so we can choose the one we want. I’m not necessarily pro using relics for it. Everyone would have them in no time.

- Dragonite pls

- Better chest drops or pure gold reward

- The +stats infusions. It’s ridiculous we have to spend as much gold as for a legendary to get stats WvWers can get so cheap without the AR.

To name a few… There’s probably more I can’t think of right now. Now fractal rewards aren’t as abysmal as people claim, but imo considering the skill difference and length they should offer something more or diffferent from dungeons.

All Im reading everywhere is remove RNG, and buff rewards to be like dungeons.. Geuss it makes rising job easier to report back to anet.

Selectable paths & and a reward tree ( like PvP tracks? ) The way foward for fractals.

Actually the good rewards on fractal(to me) is a huge incentive I do them. You get karma(for legendary), chance of skins, rings, relics to buy things(backpiece, fractal bag), ascended box.

I actually dont’ like to do dungeon, because the rewards isn’t as good(to me), unless it is a premade speed run.

That being said, I have like 28 lvl80 so I need those fractal rings. And with like 50 gift of exploration, I just keep crafting legendaries(karma, skill point with relics).

I dont’ think fractal rewards is necessary bad. It’s just many people already get everything they wanted from fractals so they just dont’ have any more incentives. Like karma is good for legendary. I craft a bunch so karma is good for me, but probably not someone else. And skill point is good for promotion too, but many people dont’ know how to use them, so they end up hugging all the fractal relics.

Then stay away from it and enjoy your pvp reward tracks. Nobody should feel forced to do something in their free time.

Dungeons, silverwastes, etc. are better gold/time ratio, but they don’t feel more rewarding when my brain starts to evaporate due to boredom (i can do a few dungeon sweeps but after 2-3 days it’s just a drag). Fractals on the other hand is still fun and rewarding for me.

Now i think you should be able to use fractal relics for more things, buy more things with them. This would immediately make fractals more rewarding (think of how we use dungeon tokens to get ectos, silk, inscriptions, insignias). I don’t actually want to hug my 75k relics after all.

serenke.4806:

I don’t actually want to hug my 75k relics after all.

That’s essentially gold, if you know how and find a good promotion.

Anet should update the fractal rewards though, since it’s getting a bit out dated.

Currently, the only reliable way to get (useful) ascended gear is outside of fractals. That essentially sums up the problem with the fractal content: The rewards are just too random.

Personally, I pretty much stopped doing them because of the following:
- Get an ascended ring with stats I don’t need and cannot trade for something else
- Get a fractal skin I already have, instead of one I actually would have liked
- Get nothing at all
(frequently, I get neither an extra reward from the bonus chest, nor any exotic drop whatsoever, effectively turning the run into a huge waste of time)

The real shame is the fact that there is a token-system in place, but it’s not being used to full effect. There should not only be the option to trade relics for rings, but also for all the other trinkets as well as the fractal skins. That way, you’d make steady reward progress. Extra drops such as ascended chests can still be left to RNG.

Satenia.9025:

The real shame is the fact that there is a token-system in place, but it’s not being used to full effect. There should not only be the option to trade relics for rings, but also for all the other trinkets as well as the fractal skins. That way, you’d make steady reward progress. Extra drops such as ascended chests can still be left to RNG.

The thing is some people have “so many fractal relics”. Unless it is really costy. They’ll keep complaining they already have everything.

I mean the guy 3 post above this have 75k fractal relics. And if the person have 75k fractal relics he most likely have almost all the fractal skins too. So what exactly is Anet going to add?

fractal trinket? Unless he have like 30 alts like me, he probably dont’ need it. And if he dont’ have much alt, he probably don’t need ascended box too.

laokoko.7403:

serenke.4806:

I don’t actually want to hug my 75k relics after all.

That’s essentially gold, if you know how and find a good promotion.

Anet should update the fractal rewards though, since it’s getting a bit out dated.

I know but i’m still hoping Arenanet finds a good use for relics and not just skill points.

serenke.4806:

laokoko.7403:

serenke.4806:

I don’t actually want to hug my 75k relics after all.

That’s essentially gold, if you know how and find a good promotion.

Anet should update the fractal rewards though, since it’s getting a bit out dated.

I know but i’m still hoping Arenanet finds a good use for relics and not just skill points.

Maybe you can add some suggestion what Anet should add.

Like you have 75k. Even if anet added fractal skins or ascended accessory, unless it is costly, it won’t make a dent to your 75k relics collection.

Indeed, i gave it a lot of thought and couldn’t come up with much of use. I know that at this point if they would turn skins obtainable by pristine or normal relics, they would come up with numbers that would not bother me since they have to keep it realistically achievable for fractals-newcomers as well.

serenke.4806:

Indeed, i gave it a lot of thought and couldn’t come up with much of use. I know that at this point if they would turn skins obtainable by pristine or normal relics, they would come up with numbers that would not bother me since they have to keep it realistically achievable for fractals-newcomers as well.

Well, how about handling it like the dungeon-tokens? You can keep purchasing dungeon armor and weapons past personal usage by just salvaging them or throwing them into the mystic toilet.

Now, if similar options existed for relics…

Even if you got a fractal skin you already have, you still got a skin in the end.

Which has no value. Because you cant vendor it or salvage it. It just takes up bank space.

Back when fractal skins were statless exotics you could atleast salvage them for ectos. So they had some worth.

spoj.9672:

Which has no value. Because you cant vendor it or salvage it. It just takes up bank space.

Back when fractal skins were statless exotics you could atleast salvage them for ectos. So they had some worth.

I do like that you brought this up. This does need to be changed back to that old style somehow. They are better as exotics.

Sarahfull.4930:

spoj.9672:

Which has no value. Because you cant vendor it or salvage it. It just takes up bank space.

Back when fractal skins were statless exotics you could atleast salvage them for ectos. So they had some worth.

I do like that you brought this up. This does need to be changed back to that old style somehow. They are better as exotics.

I still would consider a glob of ectoplasm a pretty bad reward for a fractal fullrun.

Lendruil.9061:

Sarahfull.4930:

spoj.9672:

Which has no value. Because you cant vendor it or salvage it. It just takes up bank space.

Back when fractal skins were statless exotics you could atleast salvage them for ectos. So they had some worth.

I do like that you brought this up. This does need to be changed back to that old style somehow. They are better as exotics.

I still would consider a glob of ectoplasm a pretty bad reward for a fractal fullrun.

Personally I end up with about half a dozen ectos per run along with a bunch of other materials, some +1 agony’s as well as potentially some insignias/inscriptions. Overall I don’t think the rewards are nearly as kittenome people make them out to be, which is why I’m curious if anyone has fully broken it down to actually make a comparison rather than just basing it on what it seems like. I’m sure dungeons are better, but by how much?

I agree that the fractals rewards are kitten for the effort. but i don’t want to turn them into a farm either.

Making fractal skins available for relics would seriously devaluate the things (in terms of rarity). Maybe creating another currency, that can be obtained only after completing fractal 50, and a certain lower level fractal on a weekly basis (to encourage people running lvl 50 to do a lower level from now and then, helping then newer players).

oh, and i agree that pristine fractal relics for a player running fractals are just pointless. What am i supposed to do with the ascended rings if i am floating on infused (albeit with useless stats) rings anyway?

This big long thread and nobody mentions the tonic. I realize most people don’t care about the tonic. I’m speaking to those of us that do. It’s apparently around a .3% drop rate and only from the 41 – 50 tier. So arenanet restricts this reward to 365 attempts a year and it takes 334 attempts just to break even on the luck. Oh and the amazing randomizer of fractals seems to have better than a 25% chance of assigning grawl as the third fractal, so over 100 of those breakeven attempts are going to involve doing a grawl fractal that may cause your group to abandon the attempt.

Oh, not to mention it didn’t drop from like May 2013 through October 2014. I believe it was stealth patched back into the game after being “accidentally” removed for that period.

Where you get that .3% number from?

Its already clear that mostly everyone ( not me ) hates the RNG that fractals has and thus wishes the rewards to not be as rare and more on a reward tree system.

Sarahfull.4930:

Its already clear that mostly everyone ( not me ) hates the RNG that fractals has and thus wishes the rewards to not be as rare and more on a reward tree system.

Sarah I understand where you’re coming from, but it is possible to simultaneously add guaranteed rewards without making the skins any less rare and prestigious.

.3% came from LOD research: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av4NvDVKEaOzdHJPaTlsRU5LeEJWN3hodklXWGFCU1E#gid=0

3 tonics in 940 attempts. .00319