Guild Wars 2

I would like to see if any of the community agrees with me, and hopefully have a few of these ideas shoot over to the dungeon development team for the future.

The idea: Explorable mode dungeons are boring, dull, bland. Not only are they not hard enough, they really aren’t memorable.

Initially when I heard of the plan for explorable dungeons(pre-release), I was excited!! Yes! A hard version that would challenge me and my crew, and would reap better rewards. More paths? Awesome! More challenges!

Unless I am mistaken, ANet has deemed EXP Dungeons as a form of endgame.

Let’s think about how long this endgame has lasted, and maybe how many memories have you kept from repeatedly running all those explorables? (We won’t even touch on the reward system…)

For me? Few and far between. I sure as hell remember my first run of AC Story mode though; the boss mechanics, flavor and pace of the fights, I liked it. But thinking about the countless runs of AC, HotW, CoF, even Arah Explorables have left a bad taste.. no wait, no taste in my mouth. I don’t even remember them, because the experience was a farm run with no hard, interesting boss mechanics.

Wishful Thinking
I want ANet to release Explorable modes that are worthy of being called an Endgame. I hate to compare to WoW (I quit during BC) but the truth is, the bosses were so much better designed. That it is a bit depressing.

For instance, 40-man Naxxramas was released in 2006. It took the world-first guild two and a half months to clear the instance. And you know they must have been running it so often. Wow. Why can’t ANet develop in-depth, tough, mechanic driven fights? One issue may be the lack of trinity..

I read about Lupicus dozens of times before I was ever able to attempt him. And when I finally got to fight the big bad Giganticus, I was embarrassed for all the people who had posted: NERF HIM OMG!? Lupicus is one of the better fights in the explorables; his size, difficulty, learning curve all help you feel like you actually accomplished something, but I wouldn’t even call him hard.

The thing is, we need more of these types of fights. Arah may be slightly difficult, but CoE? HotW? You can’t honestly say these explorable paths should be deemed worthy of top 3 dungeons in the game.

Please, think outside the box. SO many players love to run dungeons, we yearn for something difficult and memorable. Experiences to reminisce about and relive past accomplishments. It is almost 2013 after all; you’d think the quality and difficulty could be better than something released in 2006.

P.S. In case you think I’m wearing crafted exotics and just talking a big game

Reserved for future

Because everyone complains when they are too hard.

So they basically added fractals so you can make a dungeon as hard as you want. Only problem is it’s basically hp/damage difficulty and not mechanic difficulty.

When they add in difficult mechanics that require teamwork and/or skill like GL, CoF 3, Arah 4, Collosus Fractal, etc. 95% of people complain it’s too hard.

That’s what happens when you try to cater to casuals and hardcores and give in to the complaints from people who never try to learn how to do things and would rather have things handed to them.

Strifey.7215:

So they basically added fractals so you can make a dungeon as hard as you want. Only problem is it’s basically hp/damage difficulty and not mechanic difficulty.

When they add in difficult mechanics that require teamwork and/or skill like GL, CoF 3, Arah 4, Collosus Fractal, etc. 95% of people complain it’s too hard.

This and this.

They do add extra skills to mobs based on Fractal level though, so the potential exists for them to do mechanic-based difficulty based on Fractal level if they feel like putting the effort in, but as fractals is basically a cop-out anyway I don’t expect it.

I for one, hope that they add more dungeons ( either with new campaigns or during monthly events.) and that they are increased in not only difficulty, but in reward. And I’m sure they will, I only wonder about how they will differ from the dungeons we have now. I am tired of ‘burn down the HP’s of ‘X’ Boss/mob as fast as you can till you get to the next boss/mob.. rinse/repeat.’ HotW is a prime example of that. I would like to see some more Arah-like dungeon mechanics that cater to the hardcore players. The casuals already have tons to choose from.

swiftpaw.6397:

I for one, hope that they add more dungeons ( either with new campaigns or during monthly events.) and that they are increased in not only difficulty, but in reward. And I’m sure they will, I only wonder about how they will differ from the dungeons we have now. I am tired of ‘burn down the HP’s of ‘X’ Boss/mob as fast as you can till you get to the next boss/mob.. rinse/repeat.’ HotW is a prime example of that. I would like to see some more Arah-like dungeon mechanics that cater to the hardcore players. The casuals already have tons to choose from.

What if they added one with the increased mechanic difficulty, but without the increased rewards? Would you still want it?

Essence Snow.3194:

swiftpaw.6397:

I for one, hope that they add more dungeons ( either with new campaigns or during monthly events.) and that they are increased in not only difficulty, but in reward. And I’m sure they will, I only wonder about how they will differ from the dungeons we have now. I am tired of ‘burn down the HP’s of ‘X’ Boss/mob as fast as you can till you get to the next boss/mob.. rinse/repeat.’ HotW is a prime example of that. I would like to see some more Arah-like dungeon mechanics that cater to the hardcore players. The casuals already have tons to choose from.

What if they added one with the increased mechanic difficulty, but without the increased rewards? Would you still want it?

To be honest, yes. I’d still do it, because it’d be a challenge that I could complete and feel good about I guess.

Easiest way to make dungeons last is to add gear-checks. And the some RNG.

But yeah I agree, dungeons are simple. However I must say I have noticed some boring bosses actually be challenging with just 1-3 guys.

Because GW2 is a casual game. Raiding guilds should have probably stayed in their respective games.

They need to bring back Hard Mode from GW1, that way you can have your casuals stick to the normal mode and still do content and let your skilled players have a challenge for themselves and you could just have it reward more tokens or add new skins to the vendor, because we all know it will cause a kitten storm Hard Mode should not reward better stats for gear or be required for ascended armor/weapons when they are released. There is no problem tho with having almost a legendary armor skin available only from Hard Modes so everyone can see your accomplishment.

Wethospu.6437:

Easiest way to make dungeons last is to add gear-checks.

Yes.

And the some RNG.

NO NO NO. There’s enough RNG bullkitten with the ring kitten as is.

But yeah I agree, dungeons are simple. However I must say I have noticed some boring bosses actually be challenging with just 1-3 guys.

You guys duo’d Simin yet?

Iehova.9518:

Wethospu.6437:

Easiest way to make dungeons last is to add gear-checks.

Yes.

And the some RNG.

NO NO NO. There’s enough RNG bullkitten with the ring kitten as is.

Gear checks plus rng = fractals. He just described what they did.

haviz.1340:

Gear checks plus rng = fractals. He just described what they did.

Good point.

Doesn’t mean this kitten is good, especially in this game.

Iehova.9518:

haviz.1340:

Gear checks plus rng = fractals. He just described what they did.

Good point.

Doesn’t mean this kitten is good, especially in this game.

He also said it was the easiest way. Easiest = often the most lazy design.

Iehova.9518:

You guys duo’d Simin yet?

Haviz replied other part so I pick just this. We actually tried it for like one or two hours (+ the time to actually get there). We didn’t really bother with Tears because they actually respawn quite fast and I could dodge the effect reliably (with help of Reckless Dodge I guess). But in the end, not enough DPS, no matter how fast we ran sparks (he tried both ele and necro).

A lot of WoW/hotkey style MMO dungeons aint hard, i would actually say that they are easier then GW2’s dungeons, the difference is gear check. A hotkey style MMO dungeon is all about having the right gear/stats, when you got that you faceroll through them, more so then GW2 dungeons.

Yes i remember dungeons runs from certain MMOs with more veneration then GW2 dungeons, but that wasnt becuase it was harder, no. It was because my team and me had spend months trying to get past the boss and finally got enough of the right gear to do it.

You guys have to remember why they are so easy.

1. There’s no trinity so the difficulty bar has to be low because it’s about personal survivability.

2. Group composition has to be not important. I’ve run groups with 4 thiefs + my Guardian and still completed them.

3. Dungeons have to be tuned for people in greens and blues.

Also, people end up skipping the majority of trash because they want quick in and outs.

Wethospu.6437:

Iehova.9518:

You guys duo’d Simin yet?

Haviz replied other part so I pick just this. We actually tried it for like one or two hours (+ the time to actually get there). We didn’t really bother with Tears because they actually respawn quite fast and I could dodge the effect reliably (with help of Reckless Dodge I guess). But in the end, not enough DPS, no matter how fast we ran sparks (he tried both ele and necro).

Neither of those are warrior, friend.

Arena Net misunderstood the problem with holy trinity. Having a dedicated tank and healer / support is not a problem as long as every profession in the game can handle these jobs. Delving deep into your heal / tank / damage trees is not rewarding at all in GW2. When you think about it, the amount of heals an ele can put out or the amount of boons a guardian can put out is laughable compared to the damage enemy mobs can put out.

This leads to a situation where it’s basically “every man for himself”. People are encouraged to bring a little bit of everything. Being a hybrid is completely fine, but when it’s the only option available it’s not fun at all.

A guardian will never feel like he can keep up his team on his own.
An ele will never feel like he can heal his team really well.
A warrior spamming banners will never see himself make a huge impact on his team.

In fact I would go so far as to say that EVERY skill in this game is horribly unsatisfying. Apart from the damage you do you will never actually get to experience the impact your skills have on your team.

Compare this to a monk casting Protective Spirit in GW1, or a Mesmer using Panic on a huge group, or an ele using an array of earth skills to be virtually unstoppable. These things gave an actual impact that was noticeable by the player and his team, and it also made it a lot easier to judge a build’s effectiveness. The fact that 99% of enemy monsters only used skills that were available to players also made a big difference I think.

TLDR; Current skill system very unsatisfying, not possible to have great builds that make a noticeable impact on your team.

I would like a really long dungeon (like maybe 8-9 hours long) to be made BUT you can save your progress.

YaHiKoDrG.3467:

They need to bring back Hard Mode from GW1, that way you can have your casuals stick to the normal mode and still do content and let your skilled players have a challenge for themselves and you could just have it reward more tokens or add new skins to the vendor, because we all know it will cause a kitten storm Hard Mode should not reward better stats for gear or be required for ascended armor/weapons when they are released. There is no problem tho with having almost a legendary armor skin available only from Hard Modes so everyone can see your accomplishment.

HM was essentially a stats/level buff to all the mobs making them damage sponges that can 2shot you. That’s a fundamentally broken approach that most games take because it is easy to implement. So you can have that in any other game. In fact we already have that in GW2. Many bosses are just giant punching bags, and so are high end fractal trash mobs.

The reason I personally like GW1 PvE is because they made it challenging by adding decent combat AI instead of buffing HP/DPS numbers through the roof. Starting with Nightfall high level areas and all the way to War in Kryta PvE was fun. More challenging in HM of course, but not because of increased number. NPCs were coupled into coherent groups playing various gimmicks from HoH. They kited and rezzed eachother. They used REAL skillbars available to players. They were so good, they could act as PvP prep school.

So to answer your point: No, HM is not equal fun. If you really think it is, you can try any other MMO out there that already does it your way. I’d rather see more intelligent/skillful PvE encounters rather ones with absurd amount of HP and damage.

Yes, the game is too easy. Dungeons too easy. High lvl meta events easy (e.g. Jormags Claw). Its hard to find anything challanging in this game unless you do fractals lvl 30+ with only green gear or less gear and no agony res.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

I would like a really long dungeon (like maybe 8-9 hours long) to be made BUT you can save your progress.

You already have one but without ability to save your progress.