Guild Wars 2

IMO, the big challenge for GW2 in developing difficult interesting dungeons is how little interaction between players there is through basic combat mechanics. Other than the downed mechanic(which I really like), fighting with 5 players is essentially the same as fighting a boss with 1 guy.

This seriously limits how you can design the fight, because of how simplistic it makes fights. In a holy trinity game, you could mess with the DPS, healers or tank. Force the other two groups to pick up slack for the third. In GW2, you can only mess with the DPS, and you can rarely rely on players using their abilities to work together. Dungeons do a very poor job of challenging teamwork outside of a few gimmicky mechanics. I am not saying we should go to the holy trinity, but there needs to be something to replace it.

I suspect that if GW2 really did release difficult rewarding dungeons as it is right now, we wouldn’t like the result. Because of the solo nature,any minor difference in class efficiency will be amplified(we already see that on speed runs, but it would be much worse). So the core gameplay needs to be fixed first if we really want have fun difficult dungeons.

nice b8 m8

Not a single encounter in this game has taken players more than a day to complete.

There are numerous gameplay mechanics that rely on player interaction, they just weren’t necessary for mere dungeon completion when enough FGS were present. Dungeons in general are so easy that you can get away without making use of intricate mechanics but as soon as you start doing more ambitious speed clears there’s more interaction. Stealth, stability, might, fury, aegis, deep freeze, grouping up mobs in the open, swiftness, condi removal, projectile defense, removing defiance, keeping up cripple or immobilization all rely on interaction to a certain degree an that’s just a very spontaneous list. Like I said though, you can finish AC just fine without most of that and I guess thats alright unless you want to exclude a large amount of players from some of the dungeons.

No one ever cooperates with me when I’m tanking in dungeons on my beastmaster ranger.

People love co-operating with me when I use stealth consumables to run past mobs and then they pull the entire room, trying to run after me without stealth.

I love co-operation.

Not one of those holy trinity suggestions again. No thanks, I like dungeons to be simple and fun where most casual group can complete but a real challenge for a soloist. When Arena makes a path difficult, you rarely see any group willing to do them. That’s is not what the player base wants. And the effort Arena puts into making them will be wasted.

I always tell dungeon goers, if you want a challenge, solo it. If you want a group type challenge, go Spvp and enter a tourney. No AI’s will ever be a good enough challenge than players.

Doon.2364:

Not one of those holy trinity suggestions again. No thanks, I like dungeons to be simple and fun where most casual group can complete but a real challenge for a soloist. When Arena makes a path difficult, you rarely see any group willing to do them. That’s is not what the player base wants. And the effort Arena puts into making them will be wasted.

I always tell dungeon goers, if you want a challenge, solo it. If you want a group type challenge, go Spvp and enter a tourney. No AI’s will ever be a good enough challenge than players.

Because the harder paths have the same kitten!n reward as the easier ones.Just look TA:A.2g as final reward?!?!?!Or SE P2.1g as final reward?!?!?!That is one big joke.

WoW, you’re the first one to raise this non issue, I so changed my mind about it because you obviously have a lot of experience!

not.

WTB cooperation 1g/ea

Well, yes.

I think you’re making a mistake by conflating roles with interaction, though. It is one of the ways, and it’s so prevalent in RPGs it’s gorram near genre defining. But, there are plenty of role-less action games and platformers that don’t skimp on the player interactivity, too.

Truthfully, I’ve always thought the combo system could’ve been doing alot more to create that sense of interaction. But it just doesn’t have enough impact, and leans too far on boons and conditions and all the limitations that entails.

The lack of necessary interaction between players is the brilliance of the combat system in GW2 shining through.
While there’s no clear-cut roles for professions to take, pretty much every profession brings something specific to a group (sorry necros, you’ve been cut) that doesn’t really have to tie them down to a specific trinity role in order for them to perform said role within the group dynamic.

And there are plenty of fights that require group coordination to be completed smoothly in this game, running through AC once in a pick-up group with somebody spouting ‘stack here!’ during the entire run does not give you the insight required to jump to the conclusion that coordination and co-operation do not matter as you’ve simply completed one of the less challenging dungeons in the game.

If you’re searching for a more coordination-heavy style of instanced content, I suggest you try out TA Aetherpath and high level fractals.

Veckna.9621:

The lack of necessary interaction between players is the brilliance of the combat system in GW2 shining through.
While there’s no clear-cut roles for professions to take, pretty much every profession brings something specific to a group (sorry necros, you’ve been cut) that doesn’t really have to tie them down to a specific trinity role in order for them to perform said role within the group dynamic.

And there are plenty of fights that require group coordination to be completed smoothly in this game, running through AC once in a pick-up group with somebody spouting ‘stack here!’ during the entire run does not give you the insight required to jump to the conclusion that coordination and co-operation do not matter as you’ve simply completed one of the less challenging dungeons in the game.

If you’re searching for a more coordination-heavy style of instanced content, I suggest you try out TA Aetherpath and high level fractals.

Exactly this!

Try pugging without being a guardian… You’ll notice the huge difference between amount of time and effort need to finish any paths… story of my life

Try being new at the game. Asking questions on what to do gets you the boot. Apparently dungeons are only for players that have had the game since it’s release.

Padreviejo.6283:

Try being new at the game. Asking questions on what to do gets you the boot. Apparently dungeons are only for players that have had the game since it’s release.

Please redirect those players to me. I always got silent or stubborn ones who are try to be smartkittens with 200 AP.

Players may be co-operating so well on your runs you don’t even notice. Players might be quietly using combo fields. Players might be quietly managing defiant. Players might be using shared tactics (they usually use the current PUG tested tactics). Players might be quietly sharing boons, using blinds, putting up missile defense, or sharing condition cures.

Dungeons can be a bit too simple and pure dps will often prevail. As soon as you get into fractals the players do need to co-operate but they still generally get on with things. If something needs to get done then someone will do it, the others see that and don’t interfere. After 40 fractal runs there isn’t much more that needs to be said.

Padreviejo.6283:

Try being new at the game. Asking questions on what to do gets you the boot. Apparently dungeons are only for players that have had the game since it’s release.

If you’re new and having trouble getting groups to guide you through: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Mentors-Noob/first

Vox Hollow.2736:

Well, yes.

I think you’re making a mistake by conflating roles with interaction, though. It is one of the ways, and it’s so prevalent in RPGs it’s gorram near genre defining. But, there are plenty of role-less action games and platformers that don’t skimp on the player interactivity, too.

Truthfully, I’ve always thought the combo system could’ve been doing alot more to create that sense of interaction. But it just doesn’t have enough impact, and leans too far on boons and conditions and all the limitations that entails.

Interaction takes place through roles even if they aren’t WoW style roles. If a character can do everything himself he doesn’t need to interact with others. If other players bring things to the fight that he does not, well thats a role. There are plenty of examples beyond the holy trinity. League of Legends for instance has roles, even if those roles will get greyed sometimes. Characters each bring different things to the table even if they have multiple roles and sometimes overlap.

For GW2, “Ice field guy” and “heavy blast attack guy” could both be roles if the system decided to focus on fields. They would not be all a character can do, but they could be a defining aspect.

TheFamster.7806:

Try pugging without being a guardian… You’ll notice the huge difference between amount of time and effort need to finish any paths… story of my life

Idk, I’m a Mesmer and I’m used to soloing most encounters. I just assume some people can do dps and some people can’t. As long as they don’t make it harder for me to do my Guardian Mesmer duty, I don’t mind.

I disagree with OP, as a squishy Zerk Ele I really rely on my party. I know straight away depending on what classes we have whether I can use my Zerk armour or whether I need to add in some tank.

Grimezy.5679:

I disagree with OP, as a squishy Zerk Ele I really rely on my party. I know straight away depending on what classes we have whether I can use my Zerk armour or whether I need to add in some tank.

With some practice zerker gear is almost always going to be your best choice.

sirian.4981:

Grimezy.5679:

I disagree with OP, as a squishy Zerk Ele I really rely on my party. I know straight away depending on what classes we have whether I can use my Zerk armour or whether I need to add in some tank.

With some practice zerker gear is almost always going to be your best choice.

Good luck meleeing mossman or archdiviner on fractal 50 without guardian protection and aegis rotation.

Zerker ele is a completely group dependent spec. I’ve been in far too many dungeon groups where I watch complacent conjure eles go down faster than a sack of bricks every time because the party comp is not tailored to support them or the guardians are not using aegis/blind properly.

^ usually me
1. Pre might stack
2. Cast conjure
3. aggro
4. Oh kitten no aegis ok use arcane sheild
5. Oh kitten still no aegis or prot. ok drop conjure
5.1. dodge
5.2. dodge
5.3 There are 4 EFFIN GUARDIANS somebody something please.
6. Death.
7. Watch them die one by one.
8. /p Im not saying staff i a bad choice but there are more useful weapon choices.

DonQuack.9025:

^ usually me
1. Pre might stack
2. Cast conjure
3. aggro
4. Oh kitten no aegis ok use arcane sheild
5. Oh kitten still no aegis or prot. ok drop conjure
5.1. dodge
5.2. dodge
5.3 There are 4 EFFIN GUARDIANS somebody something please.
6. Death.
7. Watch them die one by one.
8. /p Im not saying staff i a bad choice but there are more useful weapon choices.

9) get kicked for elitism, the guardians make a post on the forum saying how they were keeping the berserker noob alive and support isn’t relevant.

You can ignore cooperative play if you don’t mind taking a more annying time to complete something.