Guild Wars 2

Wethospu.6437:

I would like hear an example of these amazing splits.

2-2-1 split in Arah p2 can have alphard WP prepped + Belka + Abom finished all within the first 4 minutes of the run. WP back to kill Lupi->WP to alphard->finish run sub 9 minutes. Wouldn’t be possible with a linear run

Fair enough. More dungeons like this or is this the only one?

Either way, what do you think will happen next? People copy your tactic and all runs end up “withing several seconds”.

Wethospu.6437:

Fair enough. More dungeons like this or is this the only one?

Either way, what do you think will happen next? People copy your tactic and all runs end up “withing several seconds”.

Similar stuff can be done in all of the arah paths as well as a few paths of TA, CM, CoE. Ideally there’d be a bunch of creative tactics designed to try and improve on people’s times. Each meta would shake things up though and a perfect time probably wouldn’t be reached before game changes make you have to adapt. At least that’s what usually happened in GW1

andylicious.1632:

Odd Magnet.3970:

I really like the thought of finally having exploit-free-speedclears.

Not only does it involve more skill, it also (most likely) will get the competition up.

This is just amazing; you are saying using complex tactics and splits are easier than 5 people autoattacking a boss for maximum kill speed. You speak like the bosses in this game are hard.

While peoples desires to have an ‘exploit free’ record table is understandable, the dungeons are so linear every team could get within seconds of each other just by producing their best dps and running between bosses fast. With the ‘exploit free’ rules being put in place, most ‘record runs’ are looking to be slower than the casual dungeon runs I do with my guild every week.

I see speed clears as a challenge to achieve the fastest possible completion time within the set rules – as long as you are achieving the ultimate goal of the dungeon completion, reward) there is no problem what happens in the middle.

Even if neither table existed, my guild would still continuously improve our tactics for casual and record runs simply because we enjoy it – we break our own times and other peoples times because it’s the best way to have fun. The idea of limiting yourself to basic tactics and just focusing on biggest DPS is incredible boring.

Incredibly, for one of the first times in 6 years I’m agreeing with an [LOD] member! Good job breaking the streak Errant

Not quite sure how to take this comment.
I’m not saying that tactics and splits are easier then the bosses, just that most of them consist of using exploits (which in my mind shouldn’t be part of a speedclear, but hey, that’s just me).
Killing a boss is pretty much like stealing candy from a baby. It doesn’t take longer than a few seconds. Even Lupicus hardly stays alive for more than 40 seconds (and even that only if it phase-switch-rapid-fire-thingy doesn’t trigger – don’t know the name for that xD)

After reading your post (and thinking a bit more about it):
It’s true what you say about times with the new rules. It’ll end up to be all about who’s running the fastest (because it doesn’t matter if you can do a boss 1 second faster, if you’re loosing 10 seconds while running around).
While on the other table, there will be more room for improvement and more time differences, but also more exploits.
But wouldn’t that get to the point, where everyone uses the same exploits too?
It would be the same: skip as much as you can and kill as fast as you can as with no exploits.
Simply because at some point everyone would use the same exploits that give you the biggest advantage in time.

What GW2 really is missing (as you already mentioned), is giving us players less linear dungeons with different options which allow for more tactics on clearing them as fast as possible.
It would be cool to see a Speedrun that uses options 1a, 2a and 3c be beaten by another group with a totally different setup and different options.
(option = way to solve a part of a dungeon path)

Sadly, there is no such thing as different ways to solve a dungeon. It’s alway the same, dps the boss, run to the next one, ignoring everything that doesn’t need to die.

To be honest the thing I liked most about GW1’s records was the creative ways the teams came up with to clear all objectives the fastest. Yes, some did use exploits, but those exploits made these runs more interesting, to me at least. In GW2, some exploits (like the Arah skip) make things more boring and less imaginitive by skipping a lot of things that could be solved in creative manners. Other exploits make long, boring parts faster and more exciting. I think that having to complete every objective required by the game to proceed but allowing anything inbetween would make speedclears become similar to the way they were in GW1. There would be exploits, but they would make things more exciting and more interesting.

Of course this coin has two sides, because what if eventually everyone used the same exploits and all runs became the same? This problem would probably surface with the strict ‘no exploit’ rules as well. Eventually, when there is no other possible way to do things faster, everyone will do it that way. It’s just inevitable.

Odd Magnet.3970:

After reading your post (and thinking a bit more about it):
It’s true what you say about times with the new rules. It’ll end up to be all about who’s running the fastest (because it doesn’t matter if you can do a boss 1 second faster, if you’re loosing 10 seconds while running around).
While on the other table, there will be more room for improvement and more time differences, but also more exploits.
But wouldn’t that get to the point, where everyone uses the same exploits too?
It would be the same: skip as much as you can and kill as fast as you can as with no exploits.
Simply because at some point everyone would use the same exploits that give you the biggest advantage in time.

This is a problem with GW2. For example in GW1 the /age command was used to define the time of a run and so each new record had to beat the previous one by at least finishing in the previous minute. Records were also posted as a screenshot of the end, rather than requiring a video showing all your tactics. Regardless of the rule set records will always be beatable by a few seconds by a team willing to grind out a more perfect run. The rule set allowing glitches has more options for change in tactics, so will more commonly be beaten by a significant amount of time.

This is a major issue for SC in this game, but nobody has any suggestions how we can get around it.

After thinking about it for a while I would be ok with map exploits as long as everything needs to be done and encounters are not exploited. Though then we really need dungeon specific rules for what is needed for completion.

Thoughts?

15char

Looks neat!

Looks nice.

Though I’d reduce the banner/header height, imo it shouldn’t take more than 1/5 of the site

Looks good. I’m assuming that clicking on any of the dungeons brings up the record table? Would be awesome if that would give records for each party size as well as every category. Maybe add an Other Records section, for solo’s and other interesting stuff.

It looks very nice

After todays meeting, the rules were decided on.

Unrestricted: http://gwscr.com/redirect?thread=unrestricted-records-rules

Restricted: http://gwscr.com/redirect?thread=restricted-records-rules

Leaderboards will be updated HOPEFULLY in time for the balance patch, no promises though. Other Records leaderboard and Fractal leaderboard will be up shortly afterwards. We decided that Fractal records will be done at Fractal scale 49.

Other Records forum is up, and rules are (loosely) established, if you would like to submit entries in anticipation for the leaderboard: http://gwscr.com/redirect?thread=other-records

Waitassecond,

The rules are perfectly fine

It was like 2 hours ago! We decided to keep this rule as it is.

well… buggers xD

The rules seem pretty fair… so nice work making them, although im sure loopholes will be found soon enough like any rule set ^^

Sanderinoa.8065:

Waitassecond,

3.) The records timer starts when the first dialogue/sequence is activated. i.e. The first time a cutscene starts, or the first time that an event triggers in the dungeon. e.g. the door opening in CoF P1.
on unrestricted, is that right? then we can just skip through arah, keep all bosses at 1% and finish off the dungeon? I dont recall this rule being different from restricted x_x

I remember it being: “The timer start once everyone is loaded in the dungeon and when someone moves or uses a skill”.

EDIT: Nvm that rule is only for restricted (bad memories -.-)

Yeah i feel the timer start should be the same for both categories. With the timer the same for unrestricted im less enthusiastic about competing in either. :P

The rules were set in a meeting. You just have to respect their decision and accept that they won’t be able to fully please everyone.

Was covered in the meeting, and I made it pretty clear that the timer would stay like that for unrestricted, and there were no objections. If having a timer setting on one rule set some how affects your enthusiasm to participate in the other, I don’t know how to put into words how irrational that is.

Im not that interested in restricted because its going to be following the boring linear paths. I was interested in unrestricted because we can use gimmicky tactics. But preparing for 30mins before starting the timer ruins it for me. And I know its the same for others.

Sanderinoa.8065:

Waitassecond,

3.) The records timer starts when the first dialogue/sequence is activated. i.e. The first time a cutscene starts, or the first time that an event triggers in the dungeon. e.g. the door opening in CoF P1.
on unrestricted, is that right? then we can just skip through arah, keep all bosses at 1% and finish off the dungeon? I dont recall this rule being different from restricted x_x

7.) You may not interact with/activate any path specific content before picking the path. This includes but is not limited to popping waypoints and killing/damaging bosses.

That rule was there, but worded slightly differently. I just added in ‘interact with’.

There’s literally nothing that you can pre-prep for 30 minutes. Arah is the biggest offender, and the dirty deed has already been done (and in fact the same tactic would still be the fastest even with the ‘restricted’ rule set timer, it would just be a longer run). Using hyperbole and hasty generalizations without actually having a legitimate example is not the wisest idea.

Hmm yeah i missed that rule. That kind of solves it. I still think it would be better to have unrestricted go by the same timer rules but be completely unrestricted. Unrestricted isnt really an accurate description of how it is atm.

The only restrictions are on things that either result in you not truly completing the dungeon, or are there to enforce fair play for all teams (the town clothing ban). We talked about it at the meeting, and the guilds who were vocal about participating in the unrestricted category were pretty clear about preferring the existing timer rule.

Unless you mean the hacks? I don’t think people will be happy if we allow hacks

Ofcourse I dont mean use hacks. Dont be silly.

Heheh sorry about this all, I actually talked to some people after posting that and figured out I had just not paid enough attention. The rules are fine, sorry for causing a fuss XD. How is the site coming along? Oh and do you know if power has been informed of the current status of weths site? He asked about that during the meeting.

Not sure, I’ll talk to Power tomorrow (later?) when I see him. I’ll have an update on the site sometime within the next 12 hours, though I’m trying my best to make sure that the majority of features are up in time for Tuesdays balance patch.

Will post back when I know the status of everything.

I have talked to him.

I would change the first rule 12 of the restricted dungeon records (there are two rules 12) to “No player may leave the instance once a run has begun.”

As it is, you allow people to retrait while in the run.

Also, non gameplay gemstore boosters should be allowed (Magic Find, for instance) for both types of run.

Fror.2163:

I would change the first rule 12 of the restricted dungeon records (there are two rules 12) to “No player may leave the instance once a run has begun.”

As it is, you allow people to retrait while in the run.

Also, non gameplay gemstore boosters should be allowed (Magic Find, for instance) for both types of run.

For dungeon runs, retraiting would be a time loss, since you have to go to a town, retrait and come back to the dungeon zone (except for TA / AC), so that’s at least 2 to 4 loading screens. And for most runs, we’ll just use the best build for that dungeon. Also relogging to gain time is a smart idea (see the current AC p1 record)

Well, you could buy one of those instant retraiter things

Jeremlloyd.6837:

Fror.2163:

I would change the first rule 12 of the restricted dungeon records (there are two rules 12) to “No player may leave the instance once a run has begun.”

As it is, you allow people to retrait while in the run.

Also, non gameplay gemstore boosters should be allowed (Magic Find, for instance) for both types of run.

For dungeon runs, retraiting would be a time loss

It’s a door open to exploits.

J Eberle.9312:

Well, you could buy one of those instant retraiter things

gwscr.com

11.) No use of gem store boosters/items. This includes but is not limited to Strength/Armor boosters and instant trait resets.

Fror.2163:

It’s a door open to exploits.

What kind of exploits??

I don’t know, when it comes to go around barriers, people are limitless!

Plus, if the person/people going out is/are the video recorder(s), we have no way to control what goes on in the instance at that moment! But this is for the restricted ones. For the exploiting ones, I don’t care. But not seeing what happens during a restricted run may make it not valid without us knowing and let us think it’s valid.

J Eberle.9312:

Well, you could buy one of those instant retraiter things

No, you couldn’t.

Fror.2163:

I don’t know, when it comes to go around barriers, people are limitless!

Plus, if the person/people going out is/are the video recorder(s), we have no way to control what goes on in the instance at that moment!

I’ll make a note on recording; that there must be at least one PoV that shows what’s going on within the dungeon, from start to finish. If at any point there is no video evidence of activities within the run, it’ll be denied.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

I’ll make a note on recording; that there must be at least one PoV that shows what’s going on within the dungeon, from start to finish. If at any point there is no video evidence of activities within the run, it’ll be denied.

Hehe you cleared that before I even had time to answer ^^

Power (the admin) decided that watching The Hunger Games was more important than pushing out the update(s), so you’ll be seeing it later today or tomorrow.

Anddddddd it’s updated!

http://gwscr.com/

Expect Other, Fractal, and Guild leader boards to be up during the week. Timers for dungeons will also be back, as some people said they actually went to gwscr to check what servers had said dungeon available to open. Mustard theme will be getting changed as well, at some point.

Also, we plan to make Fractal records contribute towards the guild leader board. I’ll post seperate rules for Fractal records regarding Restricted/Unrestricted when the board is up.

EDIT: Because of todays patch (and previous ones, in some cases); a few of the current meta records need to be reset. If you see one that uses a nerfed consumable or tactic, feel free to let me know and I’ll fix it as soon as possible. This means more than one ember/pet whistle used (per person), feather spam, etc (Yes, I am basically asking you all to do my job for me).

EDIT2: Power (the admin) would like to inform people that there are ‘like 20 pages missing from the site’. So if it looks a little ‘naked’, that’s why. It’ll continue to be built up through the week.

It looks awesome!

Ya looks really good! Good job on it!

Pretty sure it messes up on mobile, everything is gray and text is in weird places xD I’ll check once I’m home.

I’ll let Power know about the mobile thing.

Currently working my way through the record table and deleting the ones that used nerfed consumables (feathers/embers/whistles), and nerfed tactics. However, a few that don’t follow the current rules will need to be removed from all-time once Power logs back on, as the all-time leader board automatically pulls from the current meta table, and we didn’t really plan on having to edit it.

Purged the current meta leaderboard. This is the log of reasoning behind why each record was removed:

AC:

Story mode – Multiple use of nerfed consumable(s)
P1 – Multiple use of nerfed consumable(s).
P3 – Tactic used at spider queen is deliberate disabling of the boss via positioning. THIS RECORD IS FINE – I’M JUST NOOB – unless he spammed consumables, will see

CM:

P2: Nerfed tactic – Multiple use of nerfed consumable(s)
P3: Multiple use of nerfed consumable(s)

TA:

P1 (Forward): Incorrect timer start. Timer should start here: http://i.imgur.com/Uyif7qm.jpg – Multiple use of nerfed consumable(s)
P3 (Up): Multiple use of nerfed consumable(s)

SE:

P1: Multiple use of nerfed consumable(s)
P3: Multiple use of nerfed consumable(s)

CoF:

HOTW:

CoE:

Arah:

P2: Multiple use of nerfed consumables(s)
P3: Multiple use of nerfed consumable(s)

If you want to appeal any of these reasons for a record being removed, feel free to let me know. If you think I missed a reason to remove one of the records that still stand, let me know as well.

Also; looks like there’s a problem with how the all-time table updated. That will be fixed as soon as possible.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

AC:

Story mode – Multiple use of nerfed consumable(s)
P1 – Multiple use of nerfed consumable(s). The spider queen tactic used also conflicts with current rules.
P3 – Tactic used at spider queen is deliberate disabling of the boss via positioning.

?

Am i missing something here? Spider queen isnt disabled when LoSing and bursting in the corner.

spoj.9672:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

AC:

Story mode – Multiple use of nerfed consumable(s)
P1 – Multiple use of nerfed consumable(s). The spider queen tactic used also conflicts with current rules.
P3 – Tactic used at spider queen is deliberate disabling of the boss via positioning.

?

Am i missing something here? Spider queen isnt disabled when LoSing and bursting in the corner.

I may be wrong; but isn’t he standing on the fence, and the Spider Queen is unable to hit him? That isn’t your usual LoS, unless my eyes are tricking me.

If I’m wrong, I’ll go back and put the record back in.

I dont have the video for reference so I didnt know thats what they did. :P

http://youtu.be/_JGD2yDFlPU

Go to like 3:00

I guess I’ll spend 10 minutes hyperlinking the videos to each record in the above post.

EDIT:

You know what, I’m stupid. It was in the unrestricted category ohohohohohoho. Removed so many records for ‘use of consumables’ that I forgot which rule set I was editing But now I actually have to watch the rest of the video to see if he spammed embers >_>

Seems fair. Btw when you say for ac p1 spider queen tactic conflicts with current rules. What do you mean exactly? Obviously the harpy feather spam was enough to invalidate that record.

Edit: Im guessing anything with harpy feathers is invalid still thanks to the nerf?

I changed a rule half way through removing records, is what happened. I reworded rule #7. I realized after going through the majority of the records, that the ruling didn’t really make any sense in that form. It was when I got to CoE, and realized that although they were damaging the first alpha before path selection, the timer was running, so what they were doing was during the record run, not a preparation.

It was originally: 7.) You may not interact with/activate any path specific content before a path is selected. This includes but is not limited to popping waypoints and killing/damaging bosses.

Now it’s: 7.) You may not interact with/activate any path specific content before the timer has started. This includes but is not limited to popping waypoints and killing/damaging bosses.

I tried to post that I updated that rule on gwscr, but I guess another thing is broken atm (admin sux >: )

spoj.9672:

Edit: Im guessing anything with harpy feathers is invalid still thanks to the nerf?

Yes and no. If they used them in a faster frequency than is currently possible, then it was removed. In the non-existent case where they just used one feather, it wouldn’t be removed.