Guild Wars 2

All,

Scenario: Build Template Tool
I go into a RAID or FOTM –
For Boss A:
a) Think I need X,Y,Z equipped, signets/accessories/traits to I conform to build ‘Condi’
For Boss B:
b) I now need build ‘Power’
- spend 5 mins swapping my gear around, traits etc.

I proceed to start killing ‘Boss B’ but oops – I forgot some stuff, group wipes.
(My fault – a single trait or utility skill – just cost our group 6K or a wipe as a needed utility in the team comp was not there).

Is there anything out there that will check I have the right build against what I define as a saved build ?

Is there anything out there that will allow to swap builds for my gear, so I don’t have to spend 5 mins clicking swapping stuff and making mistakes?

Now.. I’m really lazy – I forget to swap stuff about or would like advice on meta.

Scenario: Gear Inspect
Is there a way I can show my build easily in-game, without having to ping everything?

- This way my fellow guildies and team-mates can easily check if I (don’t have build inspect/templates) that I remembered to equip everything up right. There have been sooo many times, when I forget something (E.g. swap power ele -> heal ele) really important which just costs the group a wipe or two.

I know the API can do it – but it takes like 10 mins to update, so that’s not really Practicle as its too slow to update. Going into my build and pining every trait/weapon/utility out is cumbersome and doesn’t show all items with stats shown in some cases (not great).
Have also been trying to help others – and its amazing how many people don’t know how to ping what gear they have/traits/utilities in many cases (let alone get an API key up and working) which can make helping someone take way too long. > 20 mins when it could be done with a simple gear inspect quickly.

The two key things that both of these items bring are:

• Improve Ease of Use

Seems like these two things are kinda essential to make a game like this work so much better.
Still wondering why we don’t have them – unless I’ve missed something and we do?

Thanks,

The community has asked for build templates since eons. Hope is present but we have been disappointed too often so I will only believe it when I see it.

A gear inspection tool is even more unlikely to come than build templates because Anet is not a fan of seperating and selecting players. The guy who had an inspection technique in his dps meter has recently banned permanently from the game:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6txv55/farewell_gw2_people/?utm_content=title&utm_medium=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=Guildwars2

“A ban was handed down after multiple (3) warnings…”

So, if you see gear inspection tools, you’ll better don’t use them.

Vinceman.4572:

The community has asked for build templates since eons. Hope is present but we have been disappointed too often so I will only believe it when I see it.

A gear inspection tool is even more unlikely to come than build templates because Anet is not a fan of seperating and selecting players. The guy who had an inspection technique in his dps meter has recently banned permanently from the game:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6txv55/farewell_gw2_people/?utm_content=title&utm_medium=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=Guildwars2

“A ban was handed down after multiple (3) warnings…”

So, if you see gear inspection tools, you’ll better don’t use them.

Anet is ridiculous they refuse to allow gear check because people should be allowed to play what they want. How bout the people that wanna have a good run and not have to carry someone because they are too lazy to get the right kitten.

gear inspection is functionally already available, it just doesn’t appear to be viable for the use cases the OP outlined as the API takes too long to update & has issues with the api throttling. 1 raid group = 10 players querying 9 other players data every X seconds = 90 requests/X seconds. Where x really needs to be under 5s to really resemble updating in real time. now multiple by however many raid groups utilise such a tool at a given time. ( 1080 requests/minute per group at once/5s. I don’t remember what the request/minute throttle is set to).

Valik Shin.9027:

Anet is ridiculous they refuse to allow gear check because people should be allowed to play what they want. How bout the people that wanna have a good run and not have to carry someone because they are too lazy to get the right kitten.

Well, we all should not make a big problem out of that situation.
1. Most people run raids in statics + several are using dps meters so they will see issues after a few minutes

2. Even in pugs people are using dps meters and can as well recognize bad apples within the first minutes of a try.

3. If you want to have a good run, you can set precise requirements and ask people to ping their gear. It’s a matter of seconds if you think you’ll lose so much time.
In addition to that inspecting gear has never been really important in my pug runs and I did a lot in the past. With a little bit of brain usage you’ll identify all bad apples within the mentioned few minutes.

I have serious doubts missing one piece, one trait, or one trinket would even result in that much of a drop from personal DPS, as well as doubts that one or two people making that mistake would ruin a team that has actually trained. I am also seriously concerned that you’re worried about wiping once (and rightly so) in what is usually a <10min boss, enough to want a whole new tool developed just for that purpose. Don’t get me wrong, build templates would be a light in the darkness for many people (specially in WvW), but this is a non-issue in raids.

And there will probably never be gear checks in here, for the simple reason that it is not positive reinforcement. The one policy Anet has always clung to is to never give a reason for us to not be around other players, whoever they may be, and that would be a dreadful first step in the opposite direction; we should rather keep kicking players who lied about our group requirements, and keep missing traits in our builds, because these can be fixed by others around you being nice human beings. Fixing our own bigotry upon gear checking everyone is arguably harder

So let me think of a recent one.. oops I forgot to equip:

I went from Power Ele to Heal Ele..
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soothing_Power

(I put the water trait line on, but forgot this one).

My group keeps going boom.. oh my its because I keep forgetting to swap stuff.

Its not always about personal DPS – sometimes one trait such as this can make x2 diff in heals → ability to kill or not kill.

Valik Shin.9027:

Anet is ridiculous they refuse to allow gear check because people should be allowed to play what they want. How bout the people that wanna have a good run and not have to carry someone because they are too lazy to get the right kitten.

Gear checking should be restricted, as it is. I understand completely “wanting to have a good run”, however the ability to gearcheck would blow this way out of proportions. People will start requiring ridiculous stuff like stat infusions or reject you for single piece with suboptimal stats. The truth is, neither of these is required for a good run. You can be suboptimal and still pull your own weight without a problem. Checking the dps should be good enough for you. After all, it doesn’t matter if someone is properly geared if they can’t play their class.

Remember its not so much a problem in static groups, but I certainly lead and have lead pug groups for far too long.

Seeing people move from Power PS → Condi PS – forgetting the shout
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22For_Great_Justice!%22

Is another one..
Takes quite a bit of effort / discussion to identify the problem more often than not.
Could easily do it in 10s if could see (a) build or (b) give them a build from a template in-game so they could update their own.

May not be a killer in a static group, but with pugs – who are often close and unknown quantity’s can be a bit of a killer.

Don’t underestimate the complexities of deailing with pug groups.

maxwelgm.4315:

but this is a non-issue in raids.

And there will probably never be gear checks in here

none issue in raids?
Spoken like someone who has never played ranger/mesmer. edit: forgot ele other than dps.

and gear check is technically already available.. via the API. it just takes to long to be of practical use for sharing current build.

aka – incorrect on both counts.

TPMN.1483:

So let me think of a recent one.. oops I forgot to equip:

I went from Power Ele to Heal Ele..
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soothing_Power

(I put the water trait line on, but forgot this one).

My group keeps going boom.. oh my its because I keep forgetting to swap stuff.

Its not always about personal DPS – sometimes one trait such as this can make x2 diff in heals -> ability to kill or not kill.

How often does this happen to a smart player knowing his stuff. Not quite often I assume.

TPMN.1483:

Remember its not so much a problem in static groups, but I certainly lead and have lead pug groups for far too long.

Seeing people move from Power PS -> Condi PS – forgetting the shout
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22For_Great_Justice!%22

Is another one..
Takes quite a bit of effort / discussion to identify the problem more often than not.
Could easily do it in 10s if could see (a) build or (b) give them a build from a template in-game so they could update their own.

May not be a killer in a static group, but with pugs – who are often close and unknown quantity’s can be a bit of a killer.

Don’t underestimate the complexities of deailing with pug groups.

Even this won’t kill your group or has such a big impact on the team performance because even pugs can low-man stuff.
You’re making a little thing a big issue, seriously.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

maxwelgm.4315:

but this is a non-issue in raids.

And there will probably never be gear checks in here

none issue in raids?
Spoken like someone who has never played ranger/mesmer. edit: forgot ele other than dps.

and gear check is technically already available.. via the API. it just takes to long to be of practical use for sharing current build.

aka – incorrect on both counts.

Sorry, I really still fail to see how it is an issue, specially for the Chronomancer since you mentioned that one. If you miss a trait (and the OP already gave examples with ele and war) your group will pop in less than 5 min, and now everyone should be looking for this kind of thing. It does not warrant developing a new tool at all. Raids are already one of the fastest clearing environment there is, the only reason it should ever take more than 2 hours of your daily time is if you don’t have a static group.

It might have sounded like I wouldn’t welcome build templates, oh I kitten would, but it is indeed, a non-issue for raiders. VG is not going to go and cap the entrance waypoint because you took too long to build and food up (a real matter in WvW), the only possible reason someone would be getting so anxious about trivial trait and tricket misplacing is peer pressure. The minmaxing is getting to everyone’s head here. How is a group wiping without elem taking one trait, if not because they’re also getting wrong distortions and dodges?

Also, you answered it yourself, the API is useless as a specific gear checking tool and Anet has no intention at all (so far) to introduce proper WoW style gear checking, because it does not positively reinforce the presence of everyone else around you.

“It might have sounded like I wouldn’t welcome build templates, oh I kitten would, but it is indeed, a non-issue for raiders.”
- Why?
Its an issue across the board, raiders, fotm, (WvW – not so much), PvP defn. issue.

You wouldn’t want something that ensured you swapped your build without having to remember it off your head and change for a boss encounter ?

I remember running dungeons, and I would swap my build about 3 or 4 times during a single dungeon path at speed.

The same now happens in raids with little adjustments to ensure a group manages easily – only takes a few people to forget.. I wonder how many ele’s forget ‘tempest defense’ at KC for example?

People often make mistakes, and expecting people to manually check everything each time before each encounter is tiresome. Is it down to the commander to remind them each time?

“the only possible reason someone would be getting so anxious about trivial trait and tricket misplacing is peer pressure”
- I am talking about traits that make a significant impact, please go calculate the loss in effectiveness of overall healing on a 2 heal party at Matthias, and the impact on a 90% scholar buff.
- Calculate the loss of might in a group as the shout is not used.

These are examples of traits and utilities, which make a very significant impact especially in pug groups.

I can easily think of one on Chrono that can mean a fail for example at Matthias:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Medic%27s_Feedback
- The persistence of a feedback bubble on reflect can cause havoc if someone is running this as a hang-over from a prior boss (E.g. slothy) where it is actually advantageous.

Raids are a perfect example where it is for ‘organised’ groups – this isn’t even “gear” – this is “builds”. How can you truly organise if you cant ensure balance across everyone?

Different groups do things differently, and team comp is the requirement to ensure things are a success. Druids on some encounters may be expected to take more condi clear for a boss in one group, other groups would rely on a mes to do something. Missing the one utility – yes can mean a wipe.

Vinceman.4572:

TPMN.1483:

So let me think of a recent one.. oops I forgot to equip:

I went from Power Ele to Heal Ele..
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soothing_Power

(I put the water trait line on, but forgot this one).

My group keeps going boom.. oh my its because I keep forgetting to swap stuff.

Its not always about personal DPS – sometimes one trait such as this can make x2 diff in heals -> ability to kill or not kill.

How often does this happen to a smart player knowing his stuff. Not quite often I assume.

That’s an incredibly arrogant mentality you have tbh.
People make mistakes. IT has absolutely nothing to do with how smart a player is.

Vinceman.4572:

TPMN.1483:

Remember its not so much a problem in static groups, but I certainly lead and have lead pug groups for far too long.

Seeing people move from Power PS -> Condi PS – forgetting the shout
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22For_Great_Justice!%22

Is another one..
Takes quite a bit of effort / discussion to identify the problem more often than not.
Could easily do it in 10s if could see (a) build or (b) give them a build from a template in-game so they could update their own.

May not be a killer in a static group, but with pugs – who are often close and unknown quantity’s can be a bit of a killer.

Don’t underestimate the complexities of deailing with pug groups.

Even this won’t kill your group or has such a big impact on the team performance because even pugs can low-man stuff.
You’re making a little thing a big issue, seriously.

I’ve seen pugs leave after one failed try because they believe the group won’t succeed.
I’ve seen instances where a single trait or utility can make a huge difference, such as taking healing spring on your druid at sloth.

maxwelgm.4315:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

maxwelgm.4315:

but this is a non-issue in raids.

And there will probably never be gear checks in here

none issue in raids?
Spoken like someone who has never played ranger/mesmer. edit: forgot ele other than dps.

and gear check is technically already available.. via the API. it just takes to long to be of practical use for sharing current build.

aka – incorrect on both counts.

Sorry, I really still fail to see how it is an issue, specially for the Chronomancer since you mentioned that one. If you miss a trait (and the OP already gave examples with ele and war) your group will pop in less than 5 min, and now everyone should be looking for this kind of thing. It does not warrant developing a new tool at all. Raids are already one of the fastest clearing environment there is, the only reason it should ever take more than 2 hours of your daily time is if you don’t have a static group.

It might have sounded like I wouldn’t welcome build templates, oh I kitten would, but it is indeed, a non-issue for raiders. VG is not going to go and cap the entrance waypoint because you took too long to build and food up (a real matter in WvW), the only possible reason someone would be getting so anxious about trivial trait and tricket misplacing is peer pressure. The minmaxing is getting to everyone’s head here. How is a group wiping without elem taking one trait, if not because they’re also getting wrong distortions and dodges?

Also, you answered it yourself, the API is useless as a specific gear checking tool and Anet has no intention at all (so far) to introduce proper WoW style gear checking, because it does not positively reinforce the presence of everyone else around you.

Yes, it’s quite clear you fail.. to see the issue.
Unfortunately, I have no idea how to enable you to see it, as you’ve clearly already made your opinion.

Regardless of the specifics of the OP’s use-case (see below for my take on that), the game really should have build templates, so that swapping skills/traits is effortless. (ANet had reasons at launch they didn’t want that; those should be moot now.)

I’m less okay with the idea of gear inspection. I can’t think of a good reason why someone needs to.

Regarding the specifics of the OP’s request: I don’t think that’s sufficient to make this a priority.

The API is fine if one is using substantially the same build throughout the session. It’s too slow for frequent swapping.

However, I’d argue that there’s never going to be a tool that is going to protect people from bad memory. There’s a lot of things to inspect; it’s a little unfair to put the burden on the other players in the group, instead of figuring out a way to remember to change all the things that need changing.

It’s a bit like asking your spouse or kid to remember where you put your favorite shoes, wallet, keys, and access card rather than finding a way to, um, find them when you need them.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

That’s an incredibly arrogant mentality you have tbh.
People make mistakes. IT has absolutely nothing to do with how smart a player is.

Yeah, and you fail to see that this kind of stuff just happens so rarely it doesn’t matter. I guess even if you have the gear inspection nobody would recognize a wrong thing on others even if you are Mr. 100% Accurate on your team.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

I’ve seen pugs leave after one failed try because they believe the group won’t succeed.
I’ve seen instances where a single trait or utility can make a huge difference, such as taking healing spring on your druid at sloth.

Yes, and it could make a difference to take Heal Mantra as chrono and so on and so on. It’s always depending on the group and nevertheless even if you see a druid having no healing spring (which is not needed in good groups) you have to tell it to him. You are doing the same today with not having inspection tools.
For people leaving after a first try: They will do it anyways, having inspection tools or not.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Also, I don’t know about you, but where I’m from, helping close family/friends out when they forgot/misplaced something is perfectly common and normal. As is asking for help.

Of course I help people out. The OP’s use case isn’t asking for help; it’s asking other people to be responsible for remembering to check. Misplacing something once … we all do that, even a few times. But expecting others to do it so often that you need an update to the game’s UI… doesn’t that strike you as above & beyond ?

You also asked if I’d mind if it became easier to ping gear. I wouldn’t mind; that seems like a more reasonable compromise, especially if there are build templates that we can share. Gear inspection feels like spying to some; sharing builds & gear by pinging seems more cooperative.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Also, I don’t know about you, but where I’m from, helping close family/friends out when they forgot/misplaced something is perfectly common and normal. As is asking for help.

Of course I help people out. The OP’s use case isn’t asking for help; it’s asking other people to be responsible for remembering to check. Misplacing something once … we all do that, even a few times. But expecting others to do it so often that you need an update to the game’s UI… doesn’t that strike you as above & beyond ?

You also asked if I’d mind if it became easier to ping gear. I wouldn’t mind; that seems like a more reasonable compromise, especially if there are build templates that we can share. Gear inspection feels like spying to some; sharing builds & gear by pinging seems more cooperative.

hmm, I think it’s just the sugar coating on the “as a commander I want to know wtf this random pug has for a build, so we can get them to tweak or, or adapt to their particular setup as needed”. Well mixture of sugar coating and trying to put it from the perspective of the pug, rather than the commander.

“Is there a way I can show my build easily in-game, without having to ping everything?”
- Cause it takes far too long… what OP is asking for is seems like same thing as what
Illconceived Was Na.9781, asks for:
“if I’d mind if it became easier to ping gear.. I wouldn’t mind; that seems like a more reasonable compromise, especially if there are build templates that we can share”

Prehaps my title for the ‘Gear Inspect’ is the wrong title?
- I couldn’t think of a more suitable title.

Being able to ping what I have easily as a “one button press” ping – aka here is the build I’m running with my gear/traits/sigils/runs/etc – seems like we’re in agreement that its a pain to do right now, there should be a better way.

More than happy if its on the onus of the user to ping, but it needs to be ‘easy’ not the mess we currently have.

To further extend the point (mostly for the dev that I’m hoping will read this) it’s not even as if you could ping all the items/traits/skills in a single chat line. it doesn’t fit. Not that it would be particularly easy to read even if you could.

@OP I think you misunderstood. In my initial response I specifically said: we should have build templates, but I’m against gear inspection.

I then went on to say that the specific use-case mentioned in the OP didn’t seem like the best choice for arguing for one idea over another; it’s targeted at a specific situation that can already be resolved in other ways.

I’m not against the concept of making it easier to share builds or gear; I just don’t think the example cited originally helps make the case.