Guild Wars 2

Hey all
I recently been leveling an alt atm l38 thief and decided to do couple of AC runs for xp and gold. Apparently i cant because i keep getting kicked out from groups and at the end it gets frustrated. I can get kicked an average of 3-4 times a day because of my “low level”. Having 5 other chars level 80 i wanted to level my little thief by doing the whole dungeon instead of logging all the time at the last boss( which gets annoying overtime). People post everywhere"LFM AC EXP ….. paths" I join them and then after 5 sec i get kicked. I find that its very rude and before kicking people perhaps they could ask? but apparently for them its too hard and decide just kick him his low level.

I have seen players level 40 ish not dying or getting downed in AC and level 80’s just gettting downed all the time. In my opinion if they want level 80’s just post it and be done with it otherwise kicking people without telling anything its very rude (not the best example but its like feeling you work without getting paid). I think that with more people asking level 80’s maybe its better to make all dungeon level requirement lvl 80 because a low level will never get into a group…

When are you getting kicked? If its before the team has the right to let you know you are too low. Personally I’d take a lvl 80 alt and swap in your lvl 38 at the end (it doesn’t add a burden to your group, and the boss fights are pretty tame once you know what to do). We do this in our guild alot – players A and B have low level alts and we do a 1-2-3 run, they go on thier mains and do up till the boss, the other players and I wait 2 mins for them to load and presto, they get 1/2 – 3/4 level from that 2 min wait on my end.

I say don’t be discouraged – just go on your main and then switch to your alt (making sure to tell the group about this before you do it).

Heck if I’m on when you are gimme a holler, we have guild groups interested in AC at least 4-5 times a night (and the 2 hour layover between characters helps).

Clairette.5396:

I have seen players level 40 ish not dying or getting downed in AC and level 80’s just gettting downed all the time. In my opinion if they want level 80’s just post it and be done with it otherwise kicking people without telling anything its very rude (not the best example but its like feeling you work without getting paid). I think that with more people asking level 80’s maybe its better to make all dungeon level requirement lvl 80 because a low level will never get into a group…

Sorry but lvl 38 is too much. I’d kick you too if I were still running that. I don’t care what you claim you’ve seen but a lvl 38 thief is not going to have the survivability, ability set, traits or even the dmg to contribute in any meaningful way to a team.

If level up is what you are after it’s far faster simply just to solo explore the world map doing heart and events.

If tokens are what you are after and you still want that exp boost then just use your lvl 80 and ask for permission to switch to your lvl 38 before boss.

The one thing that’s truly rude and frankly simply not efficient is to show up with a lvl 38 in a team of all 80s and expect them to carry you through the whole dungeon, which let’s not kid ourselves is the only way you’d be able to go through that dungeon with that setup not to mention it would take longer than if you just simply used the 80 and switched to your other char before boss.

DeathPanel.8362:

Clairette.5396:

I have seen players level 40 ish not dying or getting downed in AC and level 80’s just gettting downed all the time. In my opinion if they want level 80’s just post it and be done with it otherwise kicking people without telling anything its very rude (not the best example but its like feeling you work without getting paid). I think that with more people asking level 80’s maybe its better to make all dungeon level requirement lvl 80 because a low level will never get into a group…

Sorry but lvl 38 is too much. I’d kick you too if I were still running that. I don’t care what you claim you’ve seen but a lvl 38 thief is not going to have the survivability, ability set, traits or even the dmg to contribute in any meaningful way to a team.

If level up is what you are after it’s far faster simply just to solo explore the world map doing heart and events.

If tokens are what you are after and you still want that exp boost then just use your lvl 80 and ask for permission to switch to your lvl 38 before boss.

The one thing that’s truly rude and frankly simply not efficient is to show up with a lvl 38 in a team of all 80s and expect them to carry you through the whole dungeon, which let’s not kid ourselves is the only way you’d be able to go through that dungeon with that setup not to mention it would take longer than if you just simply used the 80 and switched to your other char before boss.

For AC? Such an easy dungeon, and you are kicking people trying to do it in level?

Wow, how bad you should be playing and bad teaming that you need a carry by others 80s.

DeathPanel.8362:

Clairette.5396:

I have seen players level 40 ish not dying or getting downed in AC and level 80’s just gettting downed all the time. In my opinion if they want level 80’s just post it and be done with it otherwise kicking people without telling anything its very rude (not the best example but its like feeling you work without getting paid). I think that with more people asking level 80’s maybe its better to make all dungeon level requirement lvl 80 because a low level will never get into a group…

Sorry but lvl 38 is too much. I’d kick you too if I were still running that. I don’t care what you claim you’ve seen but a lvl 38 thief is not going to have the survivability, ability set, traits or even the dmg to contribute in any meaningful way to a team.

If level up is what you are after it’s far faster simply just to solo explore the world map doing heart and events.

If tokens are what you are after and you still want that exp boost then just use your lvl 80 and ask for permission to switch to your lvl 38 before boss.

The one thing that’s truly rude and frankly simply not efficient is to show up with a lvl 38 in a team of all 80s and expect them to carry you through the whole dungeon, which let’s not kid ourselves is the only way you’d be able to go through that dungeon with that setup not to mention it would take longer than if you just simply used the 80 and switched to your other char before boss.

Actually you are also lowered to level 35 when you run AC ex and I’d rather run it with a level 38 thief than with a player with the attitude you have.

This might be a surprise to you but some people run level 35 dungeons at level 38 for fun :-)

In the choice between a level 38 Thief with the appropriate gear and stats for the level and a level 80 Thief with appropriate gear and stats for the level, I’m going to choose the level 80 thief ten out of ten times for multiple reasons:
• Rare and exotic gear are unavailable at level 38 and thus total armor rating and stat benefits are notably lower
• At level 38, armor only grants 2 different stats instead of 3. This makes a huge difference between what a player can and can’t do. This is probably the biggest thing. I’m more than happy to run AC with players level 65 and up but before you get the third stat, you’re lacking.
• At level 80, a player has access to all their traits and trait-related stats giving an advantage over the level 38 player. For some professions such as Elementalist and Mesmer, not having access to those traits is very crippling.
• At earlier levels, players tend to have less grasp on how to play as a certain profession. The difference in how I play dungeons as Elementalist, Engineer or Guardian differ wildly from when I started dungeons on those professions compared to how I perform in dungeons now. Even if you have experience doing AC, you have less experience as a profession and that makes a big difference. That’s not mentioning that the Thief is one of the more delicate classes to play a Dungeon with.

But more than anything, unless I’m grouping with friends or guildmates, I’m doing dungeons for myself. I’m not running a twink charity as a player and experience has taught me that more often than not lower level player in an exploring dungeon do not perform well. I want a group that can go in, do the content well, and make good time doing it. That doesn’t mean I’m not having fun or I’m an elitist, it simply means I have standards that, mind you, I find to be very realistic when taking the above factors into consideration.

tl;dr: Why would I invite you, a subpar twink, when I can probably find a level 80 who can probably surpass you in every way.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/elitists-lvl80-only-attitude-lately/
A thread about the same issue.
Also people have the right to choses party members as they want. They don’t have to accept low levels just because someone wants to level up.

I have never kicked anyone for being low leveled, but I do feel much more comfortable running any dungeon with a full 80 party. It just comes with experience too. Once you’re lvl 80, you’ll understand. Yes it’s true that there are lvl 80’s that struggle, but I can guarantee that there are more non lvl 80’s that struggle way more than 80’s. And yes I can vouch for the people on the thread, you do have to sometimes babysit the lower levels.

Again, I don’t mind lower lvl people, but it does make a difference.

GabGar.4962:

DeathPanel.8362:

Clairette.5396:

I have seen players level 40 ish not dying or getting downed in AC and level 80’s just gettting downed all the time. In my opinion if they want level 80’s just post it and be done with it otherwise kicking people without telling anything its very rude (not the best example but its like feeling you work without getting paid). I think that with more people asking level 80’s maybe its better to make all dungeon level requirement lvl 80 because a low level will never get into a group…

Sorry but lvl 38 is too much. I’d kick you too if I were still running that. I don’t care what you claim you’ve seen but a lvl 38 thief is not going to have the survivability, ability set, traits or even the dmg to contribute in any meaningful way to a team.

If level up is what you are after it’s far faster simply just to solo explore the world map doing heart and events.

If tokens are what you are after and you still want that exp boost then just use your lvl 80 and ask for permission to switch to your lvl 38 before boss.

The one thing that’s truly rude and frankly simply not efficient is to show up with a lvl 38 in a team of all 80s and expect them to carry you through the whole dungeon, which let’s not kid ourselves is the only way you’d be able to go through that dungeon with that setup not to mention it would take longer than if you just simply used the 80 and switched to your other char before boss.

For AC? Such an easy dungeon, and you are kicking people trying to do it in level?

Wow, how bad you should be playing and bad teaming that you need a carry by others 80s.

He’s lvl 38. Of course I’d kick him and so would most people and that is exactly what happened and the point of his complaint.

It seems that many people including myself have gone through this simple concept with you many times now throughout different threads but you either fail to understand or simply refuse to.

People want higher lvls to run their dungeons because they want it to end QUICKLY.

Running dungeons is NOT a show of skill genius, it’s just all route memorization and gear/level based.

This is NOT a twitch online game where reflexes matter. Anyone with half a synapse can time a dodge if they know when to do it.

Dungeons are a tedious, repetitive token mill, and anyone with any sense would try to get through it QUICKLY.

You can repeat your meaningless talking point as many times as you want, it will not change reality and it will not change the fact that low lvls will get kicked from most parties.

Drew.1865:

DeathPanel.8362:

Clairette.5396:

I have seen players level 40 ish not dying or getting downed in AC and level 80’s just gettting downed all the time. In my opinion if they want level 80’s just post it and be done with it otherwise kicking people without telling anything its very rude (not the best example but its like feeling you work without getting paid). I think that with more people asking level 80’s maybe its better to make all dungeon level requirement lvl 80 because a low level will never get into a group…

Sorry but lvl 38 is too much. I’d kick you too if I were still running that. I don’t care what you claim you’ve seen but a lvl 38 thief is not going to have the survivability, ability set, traits or even the dmg to contribute in any meaningful way to a team.

If level up is what you are after it’s far faster simply just to solo explore the world map doing heart and events.

If tokens are what you are after and you still want that exp boost then just use your lvl 80 and ask for permission to switch to your lvl 38 before boss.

The one thing that’s truly rude and frankly simply not efficient is to show up with a lvl 38 in a team of all 80s and expect them to carry you through the whole dungeon, which let’s not kid ourselves is the only way you’d be able to go through that dungeon with that setup not to mention it would take longer than if you just simply used the 80 and switched to your other char before boss.

Actually you are also lowered to level 35 when you run AC ex and I’d rather run it with a level 38 thief than with a player with the attitude you have.

This might be a surprise to you but some people run level 35 dungeons at level 38 for fun :-)

The scale down doesn’t actually mean you are comparable to a lvl 35. A lvl 80 in all exotics with all their runes/sigils, traits and skillpoints is leagues ahead of an actual 35.

I’ve also already pointed out the OBVIOUS fact that since the OP said he had a lvl 80 he could’ve easily just used his 80 and switched to his lvl 38 prior to the boss if tokens/exp was what he was after.

There’s a good reason the op was being kicked by almost every single team because anyone with any decent experience with exp dungeons in this game knows a lvl 38 thief just can’t cut it.

Maybe if it was a guild team or team with friends, but if he was in a pug team then that’s pushing it.

The same tired arguments. The difference is not that great, people. Unless you are explicitly looking for a speedrun, there is no reason to exclude based on level or class.

The main reason is because the lvl 38 in group with 4 lvl 80 makes the dungeon harder for the 4. it will actually be easier to just go 4 lvl 80s rather than taking the lvl 38 thief since he would die quickly and easily anywhere in the dungeon. thus the 4 lvl 80s have to heal or rez the lvl 80 and force 3 people to do the fighting.

I do take low levels in ac with me. once I event took a pug lvl 30 first timer with me. just to show him/her the dungeon and why so many people didnt want him/her in their dungeon party. The main reason I let that lvl 30 stay was because he/she was an elementalist and had at least conjure frostbow.

The frostbow is exstremly overpowered in AC for path 1 & 3 so any lvl elementalist(s) with this utility skill is at the very least useful and helps the team. even if they cant contribute to much else.

Since I do ac more or less on a daily basis for tokens I want a quick run so that I am finished with all 3 paths in 1h or less. having a low level will make it slower and harder. thats just the facts. like many before me here have pointed out.

Black Wolf.7348:

The main reason is because the lvl 38 in group with 4 lvl 80 makes the dungeon harder for the 4. it will actually be easier to just go 4 lvl 80s rather than taking the lvl 38 thief since he would die quickly and easily anywhere in the dungeon. thus the 4 lvl 80s have to heal or rez the lvl 80 and force 3 people to do the fighting.

A good player at that level will not go down any faster than a level 80. A level 80 thief will fall to the same things that will kill a level 38 thief.

SynfulChaot.3169:

The same tired arguments. The difference is not that great, people. Unless you are explicitly looking for a speedrun, there is no reason to exclude based on level or class.

Wrong, there’s a huge difference in traits not to mention skill points.(lvl 30ish has no access to tier 2 or 3 traits)

Everyone is looking for a speed run since dungeons are a token treadmill.

Who in their right mind would want to take longer than it’s neccessary to beat an instance when they’ve already beaten the same instance 100 times already?

You yourself admit that you need lvl 80s in a speed run, which is an indirect admission that there is a significant difference between lvl 80s and those that are lower.

Black Wolf.7348:

it will actually be easier to just go 4 lvl 80s rather than taking the lvl 38 thief since he would die quickly and easily anywhere in the dungeon. thus the 4 lvl 80s have to heal or rez the lvl 80 and force 3 people to do the fighting.

that is stupidly presumptuous… i levelled my mesmer from 40 (/necro from ~60/ ele from ~60) in AC and was absolutely not a burden (not great at the burrows on my mes/necro -as they’re condition specs – but not a burden)

DeathPanel.8362:

SynfulChaot.3169:

The same tired arguments. The difference is not that great, people. Unless you are explicitly looking for a speedrun, there is no reason to exclude based on level or class.

Wrong, there’s a huge difference in traits not to mention skill points.(lvl 30ish has no access to tier 2 or 3 traits)

Everyone is looking for a speed run since dungeons are a token treadmill.

Who in their right mind would want to take longer than it’s neccessary to beat an instance when they’ve already beaten the same instance 100 times already?

You yourself admit that you need lvl 80s in a speed run, which is an indirect admission that there is a significant difference between lvl 80s and those that are lower.

A level 30 has access to all skills. They may not have access to all traits, but you can be effective enough to not hold your party back. And not everyone is looking for a speed run. Many are just looking to complete it and don’t mind full clears. I, personally, prefer full clears as you can get some good loot in many dungeons.

I have completed most dungeons too many times to count. I still prefer playing with players who will talk and be nice over people who think they are better than a majority of the game population.

How those level 80’s know that you won’t be just burden to their team?

Wethospu.6437:

How those level 80’s know that you won’t be just burden to their team?

How do we know that those level 80s know what they are doing and won’t be a burden? We don’t know the answer to either. But we should give them all the benefit of the doubt anyways.

And when you don’t know you pick the one with best odds, the level 80.

Similarly why people pick guys with exotic gear and right profession.

Wethospu.6437:

And when you don’t know you pick the one with best odds, the level 80.

I prefer the friendlier alternative. Pick the first one that joins.

That works fine until you run into problems all the time (for example due lack of personal skill, quite common issue).

Wethospu.6437:

That works fine until you run into problems all the time (for example due lack of personal skill, quite common issue).

I’ve seen a lack of personal skill from charas of all levels. I still party with all. I prefer to actually contribute to the community instead of only taking from it.

At the moment, I’m going through this issue as well – always being discriminated for being a LVL 38 Mesmer. I’ve done AC a couple of times before, and I always managed to carry my own weight around. However, just finding a group that won’t kick me out is a little challenging.

The thing is, I’m a new player. I read forums and most of what is said is “switch to your lvl 80” and all that, but unfortunately, I don’t have a lvl 80. This LVL 38 Mesmer is my first character, and it can get tricky trying to convince a group you’ll be alright. But what the hey, it’s not all that bad – I’m enjoying it, and I do end up finding a group that reluctantly allows me in. I just wish there was more support for new players. Ah well, you can’t have your cake and eat it.

I understand when people want to have only 80’s. AC may be a low level dungeon, but the difficulty of AC explore surely does not reflect that. I’ve ran many many many AC runs, and most lvl 80 players simply suck. So there are a lot of players who want to be carried by lvl 80’s actually.

The ones who whine the most about low lvl players are most likely the worst players among us because they don’t realize that you can easily run AC with 2 or 3 low alts.

If you don’t want low levels on your group, atleast ask if they have a lvl 80 they can use and have the dignity to apologize before you kick.

i leveled my ranger from 35 to 80 in AC so i feel your pain. the problem is most 30s are terrible so people assume you are and don’t take the chance.

i got myself a full set of rare 35 gear and trinkets and my dps was actually rather good. it won’t compare to an 80 in exotics, but it is closer than you’d think. after you get gear, look for laidback groups. you’ll get kicked, but hopefully less.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Wethospu.6437:

That works fine until you run into problems all the time (for example due lack of personal skill, quite common issue).

I’ve seen a lack of personal skill from charas of all levels. I still party with all. I prefer to actually contribute to the community instead of only taking from it.

Noble gesture but hardly relevant to what’s actually happening.

lvl 80 much better than lvl 35 or whatever, always

Yet another thread that makes me thankful that I have a steady dungeon group.

I don’t understand why anyone would kick a low lvl in AC, especially when the party is already composed of 4 experienced lvl 80. Seriously guys, this particular instance is easily 4 man-able with a reasonably geared group with a little experience. Even if the party is going for a fast run, the cleaning time must differ by a few minutes, if not seconds.

It happened just yesterday in a PUG and I could do nothing but apologize to the player that was kicked, and that was particularly depressing, being the one initiating the party…

The rule of the thumb is that I always check the achievement points rather than the actual lvl to know if I’m gonna have a hard time or not. I’d choose a 2000+ pts anything over a 700~800 zerker warrior any day.

That being said, when I run with guildies, we always take along anyone’s coming, with no distinction of lvl, achievement points or profession.

Geoffroy.3685:

That being said, when I run with guildies, we always take along anyone’s coming, with no distinction of lvl, achievement points or profession.

Same here. Plus we ask if everyone has done that path before or if someone might need explanations. Geez, it’s not like these dungeons take hours to complete (except Arah), what’s a few more minutes?
Hurts my heart to see how the human aspect doesn’t seem to matter at all to most people in this.. I guess I enjoy MMOs because you meet actual people in there, rather than running around with NPCs.

This level discrimination has got to stop!…
I will grab anyone whos willing to listen and play the game.
Additionally, somepeople hit 80 without ever seeing a single dungeon so that person will die alot more than a lvl 38 thief…

And having experience with thieves in dungeons (ran one myself for ages) I would offer tips to the lvling thief should he/she not know the finer points of a dungeon from a thief PoV (and yes, its a lot different to running a guard or a mesmer)

for me fun>lvl80MustHaveSmoothRun

Velkyn.5168:

Same here. Plus we ask if everyone has done that path before or if someone might need explanations.

Yeah, I have a couple of funny stories on this kind of behavior too…
On a particular run of TA, with 3 guildies + 1 PU, we asked the fifth-man if he had any preference on the chosen path. He told with some authority (or at least that’s how we perceived it) that he wanted to do “Up”. About 3/4 of the way into the dungeon, after several wipes due to an unfathomable erratic behavior from our fellow PU, one of us finally had the brilliant idea to ask him whether he knew the path or not. Turns out that he never ever sat foot in this instance before…

Velkyn.5168:

Hurts my heart to see how the human aspect doesn’t seem to matter at all to most people in this.. I guess I enjoy MMOs because you meet actual people in there, rather than running around with NPCs.

You perfectly summed it up. MMO are social games, that’s what I enjoy most about them. If I want to do only solo RPG, I’d rather pick a solo RPG title.

Jezus, troll much? (to OP)

Put those who kick you on an ignore list to filter them out when trying to level (take them off of it if you want when you are done).

If I invite someone who is a level 35 thief, I’d cringe a little because I’ve been there and know the weaknesses but I won’t kick him…It’s freaking AC/CM… As long of course they are willing to learn (if it’s their first character or are loss) and aren’t rude.

SynfulChaot.3169:

DeathPanel.8362:

SynfulChaot.3169:

The same tired arguments. The difference is not that great, people. Unless you are explicitly looking for a speedrun, there is no reason to exclude based on level or class.

Wrong, there’s a huge difference in traits not to mention skill points.(lvl 30ish has no access to tier 2 or 3 traits)

Everyone is looking for a speed run since dungeons are a token treadmill.

Who in their right mind would want to take longer than it’s neccessary to beat an instance when they’ve already beaten the same instance 100 times already?

You yourself admit that you need lvl 80s in a speed run, which is an indirect admission that there is a significant difference between lvl 80s and those that are lower.

A level 30 has access to all skills. They may not have access to all traits, but you can be effective enough to not hold your party back. And not everyone is looking for a speed run. Many are just looking to complete it and don’t mind full clears. I, personally, prefer full clears as you can get some good loot in many dungeons.

I have completed most dungeons too many times to count. I still prefer playing with players who will talk and be nice over people who think they are better than a majority of the game population.

Try to distort as much as you want but it won’t change the facts.

I see you chose to not to mention that elite skills by themselves cost 10-30 skill points and you need to invest a set amount of points per tier to even gain access to the next tier, so you actually don’t “have access to all skills” by 30. If we assume you actually know what you are talking about then what you said was just blatantly dishonest.

There’s nothing wrong with teaming with lower lvls if you don’t mind spending extra time per run or wiping but don’t try to distort the facts.

Personally I judge the quality of players in my party by their total achievement points rather than their character level.
Although its not an accurate indication of player skill level it does say how long you’ve been playing the game.

For example, I have no problem running AC with a lvl 38 theif that has 3k – 4k achievement points. He/she’s probably got a few level 80’s already, done AC at least 50 times, and just feels like leveling an alt. If I’m really in a bad mood that day, I’d just ask them to use their lvl 80 chars and switch to the lvl 38 char on the last boss.
If a lvl 80 with 900 achievement points joins my party I’d ask them to link their gear.

Also, I think the people replying to this post arent really getting what the OP is trying argue. The main issue isnt getting kicked for using a low level char, its not being notified before getting kicked. How hard is it to nicely ask someone if they have a level 80 character? If they insist on using the low level character then its fine to kick them if you feel that you need 5 80’s to succeed. Otherwise I agree with the OP kicking without even asking somebody to switch is just plain rude.

There is literally no reason a group should not be able to complete a dungeon with level appropriate people unless the “SUPER AWESOME LEVEL 80s” they’re bringing are really really bad.

I’d be fine with culling low levels from groups if the dungeons were actually hard or challenging enough to warrant someone worrying about that sort of thing but they aren’t. Dungeons are easy and insanely simple most of the time and really there is no reason that a level appropriate person should be kicked for fear of them not being able to handle the content. I contribute more on my level 48 thief who actually brings smoke screen and stealth rezzes people to CM than pretty much every 80 I see bringing 100% damage utilities and dying repeatedly to riflemen.

Smart play makes fast runs. higher stats and more traits help but since many people who are 80 think they can just facemash their keyboard through dungeon content (unfortunately because zerging dungeons works most of the time due to back mechanical design) they aren’t contributing as much as you think

As many people have said, I’d rather have a lvl 38 that knows how to dodge and get through the dungeon than a lvl 80 who THINKS they know how, but can’t. Just because you’re level 80 does not mean you don’t need to dodge kohler.
I level my low levels through dungeons, but I’m in a guild that is cool with that. I’ll take sub 80s in any of my dungeon runs, even if they’re a PuG. I don’t like to judge them prior to seeing if they actually are skilled. I have four 80s, but like to run my guardian through AC regularly. I usually end up outlasting a lot of the 80s. Recently, I was the one having to kite kohler around while the necro ressed the rest of the 80s because they seemed to forget how to dodge. v.v

Hey at least you didn’t get kicked out of the dungeon when the final boss is at 10% hp. You know how frustrating that is? You did all this work and for some inexplicable reason you and another random party member are both kicked out of the party…thus being denied the end dungeon rewards.

This happened to me 2 days ago, I was lvl 80 and my team also had a lvl 80 necro; everyone else was in their 40s….the necro kicked me and another mesmer out….ARGHHH…

But honestly the whole thing about “needing” 80s…unless it’s fast run, it shouldn’t matter…this whole lvl 80 carrying low lvl people thing…utter garbage…

And you even NEED access to an Elite skill to do AC??? HA! That’s just hilarious….

Zeoli.3402:

This level discrimination has got to stop!…
I will grab anyone whos willing to listen and play the game.
Additionally, somepeople hit 80 without ever seeing a single dungeon so that person will die alot more than a lvl 38 thief…

And having experience with thieves in dungeons (ran one myself for ages) I would offer tips to the lvling thief should he/she not know the finer points of a dungeon from a thief PoV (and yes, its a lot different to running a guard or a mesmer)

for me fun>lvl80MustHaveSmoothRun

Why are people so intent on controlling the actions of others? I want fast and easy runs with fellow level 80s to speedily acquire tokens. You are happy with slower runs with sub80s – great for you! Why try and impose your preferences on others?

DeathPanel.8362:

I see you chose to not to mention that elite skills by themselves cost 10-30 skill points and you need to invest a set amount of points per tier to even gain access to the next tier, so you actually don’t “have access to all skills” by 30. If we assume you actually know what you are talking about then what you said was just blatantly dishonest.

There’s nothing wrong with teaming with lower lvls if you don’t mind spending extra time per run or wiping but don’t try to distort the facts.

When leveling, I always save up to get the elites as they become available. And while I may not have picked up every skill, I do have access to all skills that are actually used.

I run with sub-80s frequently and the groups wipe no more than full 80 groups.

Plato.6128:

Why are people so intent on controlling the actions of others? I want fast and easy runs with fellow level 80s to speedily acquire tokens. You are happy with slower runs with sub80s – great for you! Why try and impose your preferences on others?

It is like multiple people have stated. Kicking others for being sub-80 when you did not make your requirement clear. If you want your 80-only speed runs, make that clear beforehand. Just inviting everyone and kicking non 80s isn’t right.

Weird that you got kicked when rest of the team wasn’t willing to go the extra mile so that u don’t have to…

Cato.3547:

Weird that you got kicked when rest of the team wasn’t willing to go the extra mile so that u don’t have to…

That kind of attitude, that sub-80s are useless, is what is being decried here. Sub-80 charas are not useless. They can pull their own weight.

SynfulChaot.3169:

That kind of attitude, that sub-80s are useless, is what is being decried here. Sub-80 charas are not useless. They can pull their own weight.

Tbh 9/10 times they can’t unless it’s alt, so when you pick 80’s only its more likely that they have ran content before and knows what to expect, has all traits, skills etc. Sure if you just run content for fun there’s really no harm to help out some “noobs” but if you want to farm content as smooth as possible then taking low lvl’s is a risk.

Cato.3547:

SynfulChaot.3169:

That kind of attitude, that sub-80s are useless, is what is being decried here. Sub-80 charas are not useless. They can pull their own weight.

Tbh 9/10 times they can’t unless it’s alt, so when you pick 80’s only its more likely that they have ran content before and knows what to expect, has all traits, skills etc. Sure if you just run content for fun there’s really no harm to help out some “noobs” but if you want to farm content as smooth as possible then taking low lvl’s is a risk.

If they are completely new to the dungeon, then yes, they are a risk. As are 80s that are new to a dungeon. If they’ve done the dungeon a few times, even if it is their first chara, then they can pull their own weight regardless of level.

SynfulChaot.3169:

When leveling, I always save up to get the elites as they become available. And while I may not have picked up every skill, I do have access to all skills that are actually used.

I don’t believe you. In order to have enough points left for an elite skill you’d have to completely nerf your build and/or run around all low lvl zones collecting every skill point you can find.

Not to mention most of the best elite skills key to any build takes 30 points by themselves.

SynfulChaot.3169:

I run with sub-80s frequently and the groups wipe no more than full 80 groups.

I don’t believe that. I don’t think you even believe that.

DeathPanel.8362:

SynfulChaot.3169:

When leveling, I always save up to get the elites as they become available. And while I may not have picked up every skill, I do have access to all skills that are actually used.

I don’t believe you. In order to have enough points left for an elite skill you’d have to completely nerf your build and/or run around all low lvl zones collecting every skill point you can find.

Not to mention most of the best elite skills key to any build takes 30 points by themselves.

It just takes smart use of where to spend your skill points. You may not have the 30 point one yet, but there is not reason you should not have access to at least one elite (which are honestly rarely used) and several tier 3 skills.

DeathPanel.8362:

SynfulChaot.3169:

I run with sub-80s frequently and the groups wipe no more than full 80 groups.

I don’t believe that. I don’t think you even believe that.

Actually, I do believe that. The only thing I see die reliably in dungeons are thieves, but I still do not exclude them. And, despite running with groups of any level, I rarely see wipes and I see them happen as often with full 80 groups than with groups of mixed level.

SynfulChaot.3169:

DeathPanel.8362:

SynfulChaot.3169:

When leveling, I always save up to get the elites as they become available. And while I may not have picked up every skill, I do have access to all skills that are actually used.

I don’t believe you. In order to have enough points left for an elite skill you’d have to completely nerf your build and/or run around all low lvl zones collecting every skill point you can find.

Not to mention most of the best elite skills key to any build takes 30 points by themselves.

It just takes smart use of where to spend your skill points. You may not have the 30 point one yet, but there is not reason you should not have access to at least one elite (which are honestly rarely used) and several tier 3 skills.

DeathPanel.8362:

SynfulChaot.3169:

I run with sub-80s frequently and the groups wipe no more than full 80 groups.

I don’t believe that. I don’t think you even believe that.

Actually, I do believe that. The only thing I see die reliably in dungeons are thieves, but I still do not exclude them. And, despite running with groups of any level, I rarely see wipes and I see them happen as often with full 80 groups than with groups of mixed level.

Your personal beliefs are irrelevant. What’s truly relevant is how things are and the incentives and the penalities the game inflicts for certain things. I already pointed out why in another post of mine in response to you.

It is true that there are no game penalties for acting exclusionary. And it is true that there are not extra incentives.

That being said if you wish to run 80-only runs, specify that in your LFG. Everyone else should not need to post ‘sub-80 ok’ to get a group. The norm should be acceptance, not exclusion.

SynfulChaot.3169:

It is true that there are no game penalties for acting exclusionary. And it is true that there are not extra incentives.

That being said if you wish to run 80-only runs, specify that in your LFG. Everyone else should not need to post ‘sub-80 ok’ to get a group. The norm should be acceptance, not exclusion.

The norm is whatever the majority of the community decides it is. That is directly influenced by the rules and restrictions in the game.

You don’t get to decide what the norm is unilaterally.