Guild Wars 2

If people skip kholer, I dont mind if they are level 1. If there is lower levels, bring a ice bow. If we fight Kholer or Troll, automatiically makes me want 80’s, warriors etc because its so painful usually.

DeathPanel.8362:

SynfulChaot.3169:

It is true that there are no game penalties for acting exclusionary. And it is true that there are not extra incentives.

That being said if you wish to run 80-only runs, specify that in your LFG. Everyone else should not need to post ‘sub-80 ok’ to get a group. The norm should be acceptance, not exclusion.

The norm is whatever the majority of the community decides it is. That is directly influenced by the rules and restrictions in the game.

You don’t get to decide what the norm is unilaterally.

You are not the majority, nor am I. I am simply stating what it should be to make for a good and friendly community.

Wethospu.6437:

That works fine until you run into problems all the time (for example due lack of personal skill, quite common issue).

Wow, Wethospu. You of all people should know it doesn’t require much skill to do these dungeons. Soloing is a different story, but to simply complete them is more often than not, an inevitability with the only factor being time.

And no, the OP isn’t talking about speed runs.

SynfulChaot.3169:

DeathPanel.8362:

SynfulChaot.3169:

It is true that there are no game penalties for acting exclusionary. And it is true that there are not extra incentives.

That being said if you wish to run 80-only runs, specify that in your LFG. Everyone else should not need to post ‘sub-80 ok’ to get a group. The norm should be acceptance, not exclusion.

The norm is whatever the majority of the community decides it is. That is directly influenced by the rules and restrictions in the game.

You don’t get to decide what the norm is unilaterally.

You are not the majority, nor am I. I am simply stating what it should be to make for a good and friendly community.

I never pretended to be the majority.

I’m just pointing out that only stating what things “should be” is the most useless thing anyone can say because it provides no way to get to that state.

You simply can’t get it through your head that you need to actually petition the devs to change the game rules in such a way to incentivize people to behave in that way or THEY WILL NEVER BEHAVE THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO.

Just rehashing your same tired “should be” talking points here doesn’t do anything towards fixing the problem because unless you have magical mental powers to control peoples’ minds they WILL NOT do what you think they “should” do.

Why would anyone petition for the rules to be changed? All that ends up doing is nerfing lvl 80s even more when downscaled…unless you’re talking about buffing non-80s more, which is completely unnecessary as the dungeons are only mildly challenging to outright cake.

Although I would petition against the swapping of alts inside dungeons. It’s useful when you need portals from a mesmer or icebows for structures, but I’d rather give 1 or 2 other professions their version of portal/icebows instead.

DeathPanel.8362:

SynfulChaot.3169:

You are not the majority, nor am I. I am simply stating what it should be to make for a good and friendly community.

I never pretended to be the majority.

I’m just pointing out that only stating what things “should be” is the most useless thing anyone can say because it provides no way to get to that state.

You simply can’t get it through your head that you need to actually petition the devs to change the game rules in such a way to incentivize people to behave in that way or THEY WILL NEVER BEHAVE THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO.

Just rehasing your same tired “should be” talking points here doesn’t do anything towards fixing the problem because unless you have magical mental powers to control peoples’ minds they WILL NOT do what you think they “should” do.

There is nothing they can realistically add that would make you and many others want to party with sub-80s. That is fine. Just let people know ahead of time in the LFG post instead of just kicking those that try to join that are not 80.

I cannot change what people do or think. I can, however, voice my views on what I think would benefit the community.

SynfulChaot.3169:

There is nothing they can realistically add that would make you and many others want to party with sub-80s. That is fine. Just let people know ahead of time in the LFG post instead of just kicking those that try to join that are not 80.

I cannot change what people do or think. I can, however, voice my views on what I think would benefit the community.

There are plenty of things they can change to incentivize people to team with lower lvls. You just simply lack the imagination or never bothered to think up of some.

They can make downscaling penalize higher lvls more to bring their stats more in line with a lower lvl.

They can also tone down the difficulty on some of the lower scale dungeons to make them easier for lower lvls to run them, so they are less of a liability on teams.

Those are just the things that came to mind in 10 seconds of actually thinking about it.

Having said that, imo low levels shouldn’t even be in dungeons anyway.(That’s my “should” statement since it’s not what IS) It takes like less than 1 week to lvl to 80 maybe 3 weeks if you are casual.

You can also just switch to your low lvl before boss to get full reward and exp if you must bring a low lvl.

All these concepts have been covered to death in this thread and threads like this but you and people like you just block out any reasonable workaround and rehash your slogans in the face of all logic and common sense.

DeathPanel.8362:

There are plenty of things they can change to incentivize people to team with lower lvls. You just simply lack the imagination or never bothered to think up of some.

They can make downscaling penalize higher lvls more to bring their stats more in line with a lower lvl.

They can also tone down the difficulty on some of the lower scale dungeons to make them easier for lower lvls to run them, so they are less of a liability on teams.

Those are just the things that came to mind in 10 seconds of actually thinking about it.

Having said that, imo low levels shouldn’t even be in dungeons anyway.(That’s my “should” statement since it’s not what IS) It takes like less than 1 week to lvl to 80 maybe 3 weeks if you are casual.

You can also just switch to your low lvl before boss to get full reward and exp if you must bring a low lvl.

All these concepts have been covered to death in this thread and threads like this but you and people like you just block out any reasonable workaround and rehash your slogans in the face of all logic and common sense.

The problem with all of these are as follows:

Downscaling already brings stats in line. They would need to also remove traits, but how do you remove access to the traits and inform the player? Also, how would the game determine in what order it should remove your points?

If they went so far as to make 80s outright weaker than lower-level players, then there would be little incentive to even do dungeons for these players. If they took the difficulty down further, the 80-only rush groups would still only take 80s as they would still feel that a sub-80 would slow them down.

Yes, you feel that 80s do not belong in dungeons. Until that becomes ArenaNet’s official stance (and they update the dungeon enter dialogue to say ‘recommended level: 80’) that is not the message that we should be passing onto new players.

Only someone completely out of touch with the regular player would suggest more nerfs. All it would do is push people away from doing low level dungeons. If those players can’t be bothered teaming with non-80s, what do you think they’d do if their stats were even lower? Or their traits became locked out? That’s really all a lvl 80 has over someone that isn’t in such circumstances.

And the devs already said they were still adjusting dungeon content where it’s needed after the new WP rules, I wouldn’t bother suggesting making dungeons easier until after that update which should be in a week or something.

And swapping alts for the exp bonus is cheating. Logically speaking, the character didn’t do anything inside the dungeon so they shouldn’t get any reward at all. If the devs wanted you to spread xp to other characters on your account, they’d award account bound exp consumables just like the liquid karma…but they don’t. Suggesting to exploit the system, don’t care if it’s easier or not, it still not right and I await the impending change to put an end to it.

DeathPanel.8362:

SynfulChaot.3169:

There is nothing they can realistically add that would make you and many others want to party with sub-80s. That is fine. Just let people know ahead of time in the LFG post instead of just kicking those that try to join that are not 80.

I cannot change what people do or think. I can, however, voice my views on what I think would benefit the community.

There are plenty of things they can change to incentivize people to team with lower lvls. You just simply lack the imagination or never bothered to think up of some.

They can make downscaling penalize higher lvls more to bring their stats more in line with a lower lvl.

They can also tone down the difficulty on some of the lower scale dungeons to make them easier for lower lvls to run them, so they are less of a liability on teams.

Those are just the things that came to mind in 10 seconds of actually thinking about it.

Having said that, imo low levels shouldn’t even be in dungeons anyway.(That’s my “should” statement since it’s not what IS) It takes like less than 1 week to lvl to 80 maybe 3 weeks if you are casual.

You can also just switch to your low lvl before boss to get full reward and exp if you must bring a low lvl.

All these concepts have been covered to death in this thread and threads like this but you and people like you just block out any reasonable workaround and rehash your slogans in the face of all logic and common sense.

Switching to a low level character to reap the rewards of a higher level character from a mechanical stand point is dumb (in the case of Dailies and Monthlies I see no work around for it) and I would consider it an exploit.

I don’t think they need to make incentives to group with lower level characters but rather remove the major reason for not grouping with them: it slows down speed runs. The reason people speed run is because they end load all the rewards for a dungeon and naturally people that grind will minimize the time from point A to point B. To make this work they’d need to rework dungeons (which they are doing).

Having better drops on trash or dispersing the tokens as moderate chance drops on trash, thus giving incentive to clear trash, would be better than simply shifting scaling on higher levels to make lower levels more on par. And yes, I realize it seems counter-intuitive to make trash worth killing, but I personally think the concept of trash in dungeons to be a poor design mechanic for MMOs in general. Why design an obstacle that players will, by nature of the obstacle, choose to circumvent rather than confront every time? They may as well just replace all the trash mobs with jumping puzzles for how little they add to the challenge of the dungeon.

Also saying that low levels shouldn’t be allowed in dungeons completely goes against ANets stance on making end game start at level one rather than at max level like in most MMOs. Using the argument that it takes 3 weeks to level to 80 is very subjective considering some people have jobs, families, play other games, or have multiple characters. You are also ignoring that starting dungeons at lower levels in much more relaxed environments (AC, CM) allows people to learn some of the basic concepts that you often don’t learn while leveling, specifically how to work as a team which you don’t necessarily need to do while doing heart quests. Kholer stands out as a perfect example of dodge-or-die mechanics which there really aren’t that many of until you hit champions or DE end bosses in level 80 zones. By easing the dungeon mechanics at low levels when people should be learning their class it allows them to build on this in later dungeons.

And FYI, I’ve seen as many level 80s as sub-50s fail at dodging Kholer’s spin-to-win whirlwind of doom.

JJBigs.8456:

If people skip kholer, I dont mind if they are level 1. If there is lower levels, bring a ice bow. If we fight Kholer or Troll, automatiically makes me want 80’s, warriors etc because its so painful usually.

This is exactly why i always ask to kill kholer as requirement before i join a group. It’s to avoid insecure/crappy level 80’s or whatever who believe that kholer and troll are hard to kill bosses.

Troll hits hard sure, but that’s why you kite him. Any lvl can do that. And kholer is easy aslong you know when to dodge, and any level player can dodge.

I find this particularly amusing as last week I had 2 players that advertised for AC P1, when they were new to the game had never done a dungeon and wanted Story, obviously to them they thought P1 meant part 1.

Anyhow we get there and into Explorable only to find this out. One level 31 Thief and a level 38 Warrior. Anyway we still do Path 1, rather than story, the Thief 4 levels below the dungeon level. Smoothest run I’ve ever had. no-one even went down in the Hodgkins burrow fight. Every part where we skipped mobs they succeeded without dying. Afterwards I took them for a path 2 run.

So the moral of the Story… LEVELS DO NOT MATTER IN AC. What matters is skill and technique. These 2 players were willing to listen to my instructions, didn’t have an ego, didn’t go running off on their own, and even with low level toons it was much faster and easier than with most of the full 80 pugs I’ve been with.

Having done AC on level 80s and having leveled 2 characters almost entirely in Dungeons from 30, I must say having low level players does not make an awful lot of difference.

Just start your own group and specify that any 30+ are welcome. People will join you. Or look on gw2lfg for a group that specifies that already.

Vegeta! What does the scouter say about the elitism level?
IT’S OVER 9000!

DeathPanel.8362:

Sorry but lvl 38 is too much. I’d kick you too if I were still running that. I don’t care what you claim you’ve seen but a lvl 38 thief is not going to have the survivability, ability set, traits or even the dmg to contribute in any meaningful way to a team.

If level up is what you are after it’s far faster simply just to solo explore the world map doing heart and events.

If tokens are what you are after and you still want that exp boost then just use your lvl 80 and ask for permission to switch to your lvl 38 before boss.

The one thing that’s truly rude and frankly simply not efficient is to show up with a lvl 38 in a team of all 80s and expect them to carry you through the whole dungeon, which let’s not kid ourselves is the only way you’d be able to go through that dungeon with that setup not to mention it would take longer than if you just simply used the 80 and switched to your other char before boss.

Seriously? It’s a level 35 dungeon, not a level 80 dungeon. You might want to do some research into how scaling works. Once you’re done with that, dig up some classes on how not to be ignorant and rude.
That last sentence goes for all of you trying to justify why you are, or would be, a prick.

Toast.6459:

Vegeta! What does the scouter say about the elitism level?
IT’S OVER 9000!

Seriously? It’s a level 35 dungeon, not a level 80 dungeon. You might want to do some research into how scaling works. Once you’re done with that, dig up some classes on how not to be ignorant and rude.
That last sentence goes for all of you trying to justify why you are, or would be, a prick.

I wouldn’t have put it quite so…let’s just call it ‘elegantly’…but yes, people that haven’t thoroughly experienced how dynamic scaling affects performance vs being the proper level, it feels like they’re more or less making excuses why they want to just brush people off.

The only viable counter I’ve encounter thus far is “What’s the advantage of inviting a non-80 over an 80?” to which there is none. Seems beside the point to me. If you’re not counting literal seconds for your run, crafting the most efficient machine of a group as you can, there is really no point in cherry picking players by level when any will do.

For the OP, all I can say is get a group of guildies with low level alts and have them run it with you.

Leo G.4501:

Toast.6459:

Vegeta! What does the scouter say about the elitism level?
IT’S OVER 9000!

Seriously? It’s a level 35 dungeon, not a level 80 dungeon. You might want to do some research into how scaling works. Once you’re done with that, dig up some classes on how not to be ignorant and rude.
That last sentence goes for all of you trying to justify why you are, or would be, a prick.

I wouldn’t have put it quite so…let’s just call it ‘elegantly’…but yes, people that haven’t thoroughly experienced how dynamic scaling affects performance vs being the proper level, it feels like they’re more or less making excuses why they want to just brush people off.

The only viable counter I’ve encounter thus far is “What’s the advantage of inviting a non-80 over an 80?” to which there is none. Seems beside the point to me. If you’re not counting literal seconds for your run, crafting the most efficient machine of a group as you can, there is really no point in cherry picking players by level when any will do.

Being blunt tends to be the only way to get through ignorance.

@Clairette.5396

If by chance you’re on Tarnished Coast whisper me and mention this post. I’ll run you through along with several Guild members from WOLF. We never kick people because of being low level. It’s a low level dungeon and so in my opinion it’s perfectly acceptable to run people under level 80 (all the way down to level 35 of course).

I see people wanting level 80’s only and that’s fine. In WOLF (Wolf Demon Tribe) the experience, having fun with friends is more important to us than making gold. The only way to learn these dungeons is to actually play. Since I have played a Thief I would however suggest you get yourself a Shortbow (if you don’t have one already) and stay ranged as certain Bosses can be tough on squishy professions. I run on Scholar Professions (Necro, Elementalist and Mesmer) for the most part. I use my 80’s for Fractals.

My Elementalist has the same name as I do here so whisper me for an invite, mention this post and we’ll go from there.

As to being level 80 in AC. Complete rubbish. My 40 Elementalist totally kittens up other players when it comes to the Graveling Burrows. The only thing an 80 has over a lower level player is slightly better dps and armor which doesn’t mean kitten if you’re caught in the Howling King’s Primal Scream. It’s player skill, not so much their level that makes a difference. I’ve run through AC path 1 in less than 10 minutes with a complete noob group because I guided them the entire way and told them what works, how to defend Hodgins, etc. It’s elitist nonsense that makes people believe that your level has much to do with how quickly and efficiently these dungeons are completed. There is a reason you are leveled down in these dungeons. It’s to encourage the community to play together. If people ask me if I have an 80 I say yes, (3 in fact) but I’m working on this character not my 80’s which are geared already and I only run fractals with. I’m not interested in speed runs. I’m here to have fun, which is why the majority of people bought the game in the first place.

The next time anyone wants to exclude another player because of their level they need to stop and think how they felt when they were rejected by someone in real life. Be it an employer for not enough work experience, someone they liked as a potential boy/girlfriend or whatever. No one likes to be rejected and even though it may be only a game there are real people playing those characters.

Real people like you and me who have feelings.

Toast.6459:

Being blunt tends to be the only way to get through ignorance.

But you’ll need some Magmaton level of bluntness to get through this level of ignorance…and I think it’d be against forum rules and modded at that point :P

I’m glad there’s some balance here though. Toast, Cathbadb, SynfulChaot, and all the rest, it’s good to balance things out in regard to community mentality or what tends to be vocalized for those unfamiliar. The reality is, yeah people will play how they want and with whom they feel is best. There’s nothing wrong with people grouping in only lvl 80 groups, speed run or no. But not while also browbeating your opinion on those who are actually the majority. Because right now, it’s not actually hard to get a team for dungeons as you’re leveling but by the way some express their intent here, it won’t always be this way, especially since the act of doing dungeons will also shoot you through levels up to the cap.

I’d hate for the game to plunge into nothing but elitists only looking for tokens and nothing more. I’ve done all paths too many times but I still have a blast playing them all but it’d ruin my only purpose to play if community was tainted into one hive-mind mentality.

If they needed an all 80 party to get through AC, consider yourself lucky you were left out.

That’s all I have to say on the matter, really.

there are many kinds of people.. some have time constraint, some just wanna finish up as quickly as possible, some have free time to do more stuff, some just wants the best and some doesn’t mind helping newbies while others might be more egoistic.
just search for a while and you’ll find someone who’s willing to bring you in their runs!

80s that kick players for being lower level are absolutely pathetic.

Toast.6459:

Vegeta! What does the scouter say about the elitism level?
IT’S OVER 9000!

Seriously? It’s a level 35 dungeon, not a level 80 dungeon. You might want to do some research into how scaling works. Once you’re done with that, dig up some classes on how not to be ignorant and rude.
That last sentence goes for all of you trying to justify why you are, or would be, a prick.

The fact you would think that you can just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

It doesn’t matter what the lvl req of the low lvl dungeon is. The fact is those dungeons are scaled for way higher. No one said it was impossible to beat that AC dungeon with 35s, it’s just going to be a pain and waste much more time, which I am not going to bother with.

I owe you as a stranger in a pug absolutely nothing except my own contribution to the team, and I expect nothing less in return. If you can’t contribute to my expectations (which are pretty low for pugs) then I won’t hesitate to leave, kick you or second the kick.

You can cry “elitist” all day long from the mountaintop but at the end of the day you’ll still be kicked and I’ll still roll through these dungeons with a good team and get the reward.

I say again, you might want to do some research into how scaling works. The tiny, tiny, minuscule stat bonus you have is not enough to matter. There is no word for you besides elitist prick. I guess whoever said I’d need a megaton amount of bluntness was right, your ignorance is astounding.

I laughed at your “good team” too, to reiterate, if you’re kicking for higher levels, your team is anything but good. Let me guess, you run a glass cannon build and need someone to carry you. That not right? You run full MF gear because you’re greedy, my guess is probably this one, fits will with your ignorance and elitist attitude.

DeathPanel.8362:

If you can’t contribute to my expectations (which are pretty low for pugs)…

So then what is your beef? Or maybe you think your expectations are low when they are really not. Honestly, I’m rather aghast how uppity people get over the littlest, menial, unimportant details that seem to make a “huge difference” when they can be so easily overlooked if you’re simply just doing your part and not being kittened about what other people are doing/have.

Also, have you learned anything new about Dynamic Level Scaling yet, DeathPanel?

Toast.6459:

I say again, you might want to do some research into how scaling works. The tiny, tiny, minuscule stat bonus you have is not enough to matter.

Actually, the fact that you get to keep your Trait build is what makes lvl 80 characters a lot more powerful than lvl 35 characters in this case.

DeathPanel.8362:

Clairette.5396:

I have seen players level 40 ish not dying or getting downed in AC and level 80’s just gettting downed all the time. In my opinion if they want level 80’s just post it and be done with it otherwise kicking people without telling anything its very rude (not the best example but its like feeling you work without getting paid). I think that with more people asking level 80’s maybe its better to make all dungeon level requirement lvl 80 because a low level will never get into a group…

Sorry but lvl 38 is too much. I’d kick you too if I were still running that. I don’t care what you claim you’ve seen but a lvl 38 thief is not going to have the survivability, ability set, traits or even the dmg to contribute in any meaningful way to a team.

If level up is what you are after it’s far faster simply just to solo explore the world map doing heart and events.

If tokens are what you are after and you still want that exp boost then just use your lvl 80 and ask for permission to switch to your lvl 38 before boss.

The one thing that’s truly rude and frankly simply not efficient is to show up with a lvl 38 in a team of all 80s and expect them to carry you through the whole dungeon, which let’s not kid ourselves is the only way you’d be able to go through that dungeon with that setup not to mention it would take longer than if you just simply used the 80 and switched to your other char before boss.

Honestly i can almost always outperform most 80s on my lower level alts.

A lot of players still treat dungeons like they were prior to the last big update. While yes there should be an emphasis on DPS, these players do not realize they can’t run back constantly once they die. Players need to rethink there specs now in dungeons a more balanced approach would help considerably.

This snotty bias against players at a lower level is ridiculous and just shows the inherent lack of a dungeon finder does to grping for new players. Alienating and giving a very bad impression of how the game should be played for new players.

Why even set a minumum level if those at the minimum level are never allowed to play in the dungeon…. a dungeon finder could allow for grps of differing level brackets get into and experience these dungeons the way they are setup to be played.

If dungeons were made just for level 80’s then the devs need to tune them accordingly and just not allow access to anyone but a level 80. This is a direct fault on the devs allowing for this to have even been conceived.

Cathbadb.6079:

The next time anyone wants to exclude another player because of their level they need to stop and think how they felt when they were rejected by someone in real life. Be it an employer for not enough work experience, someone they liked as a potential boy/girlfriend or whatever. No one likes to be rejected and even though it may be only a game there are real people playing those characters.

Real people like you and me who have feelings.

a lot of players seem to forget its other human beings they’re playing with; online disinhibition and stuff ( its actually a very interesting subject… as more and more of the society seems to be playing video games it could be argued that its ‘spilling’ out of games and becoming the ‘norm’… less empathic)
… though im currently doing a report on it (psychological effects of video games) for computer science… and like tangents… and rambling…

“Elitist” is synonymous for “People I don’t agree with” for most people in these threads.

No, elitist is synonymous for ignorant pricks who think their better than everyone.

Dradiin.8935:

DeathPanel.8362:

Clairette.5396:

I have seen players level 40 ish not dying or getting downed in AC and level 80’s just gettting downed all the time. In my opinion if they want level 80’s just post it and be done with it otherwise kicking people without telling anything its very rude (not the best example but its like feeling you work without getting paid). I think that with more people asking level 80’s maybe its better to make all dungeon level requirement lvl 80 because a low level will never get into a group…

Sorry but lvl 38 is too much. I’d kick you too if I were still running that. I don’t care what you claim you’ve seen but a lvl 38 thief is not going to have the survivability, ability set, traits or even the dmg to contribute in any meaningful way to a team.

If level up is what you are after it’s far faster simply just to solo explore the world map doing heart and events.

If tokens are what you are after and you still want that exp boost then just use your lvl 80 and ask for permission to switch to your lvl 38 before boss.

The one thing that’s truly rude and frankly simply not efficient is to show up with a lvl 38 in a team of all 80s and expect them to carry you through the whole dungeon, which let’s not kid ourselves is the only way you’d be able to go through that dungeon with that setup not to mention it would take longer than if you just simply used the 80 and switched to your other char before boss.

Honestly i can almost always outperform most 80s on my lower level alts.

A lot of players still treat dungeons like they were prior to the last big update. While yes there should be an emphasis on DPS, these players do not realize they can’t run back constantly once they die. Players need to rethink there specs now in dungeons a more balanced approach would help considerably.

This snotty bias against players at a lower level is ridiculous and just shows the inherent lack of a dungeon finder does to grping for new players. Alienating and giving a very bad impression of how the game should be played for new players.

Why even set a minumum level if those at the minimum level are never allowed to play in the dungeon…. a dungeon finder could allow for grps of differing level brackets get into and experience these dungeons the way they are setup to be played.

If dungeons were made just for level 80’s then the devs need to tune them accordingly and just not allow access to anyone but a level 80. This is a direct fault on the devs allowing for this to have even been conceived.

Dungeon finder is double-edged. Sure it makes possible to group at low levels but it also removes the social aspect of grouping (if it’s like the WoW DF). Now if they implemented something like gw2LFG but in game, that would be interesting. However, an automatic dungeon queue seems like it would remove more of the social aspect than it would really add in convenience.

Toast.6459:

No, elitist is synonymous for ignorant pricks who think their better than everyone.

Didn’t I tell you about being ‘elegant’? Now someone’s going to have to report you :P

The fact is those dungeons are scaled for way higher

No, no they’re not The first time i did AC explorable, we did all 3 paths with a random pug group the first weekend after launch at level 30 (well, it was higher by the end of the third path since we leveled while doing it) in all blue gear/green gear. It was easy then, its still easy today. Being level 80 means you can do it with 2-3 people if you try hard enough, and its still gonna be easier than flashpoints in LOLCASUAL Old Republic.

But at the end of the day, because ArenaNet never banned people for exploiting/glitching in those dungeons, the vast majority of people running them are terrible, even now that most (but unfortunately not all) glitches are fixed. So you’re stuck in “omg level 80 exotic/ascended only speed run skip everything glitch what we can” run that actually take far, far longer and are more tedious than a group of 5 semi-competent pugs in random gear/random level doing things the “optimal” (but no glitch/stupid tricks) way.

I use gw2lfg (and whatever group finder they put in the game should be similar. Thats what Dungeons & Dragons Online had, and it worked BEAUTIFULLY without ruinning the community….here it will be even better since you dont need healers), and advertise all my groups as newbie friendly non-speed run no glitch/no skip, any level… And on average they are much, much faster runs than other typical speedrun pugs.

The problem again, is people got used to the “default” being the speed/glitch runs with 5 × 80s, so they don’t mention it. When you start asking people individually, you quickly find out that the majority of the player base HATE it, they just never challenge the status quo. Pick 5 random people, and ask them what they rather… most of the time only 1 or 2 will say they prefer doing it the “speed run way”.

I mean, at the end of the day, if you don’t enjoy the content, this is just work, is it not? You do something just for the end reward, that you, rather not do. Its probably better looking for another game at this point.

The funniest part is that in GW1, even though the vast majority of groups were speedrun (since the game had been out so long…), people still specified in their group callouts -exactly- what they wanted if it was such a group, instead of just shouting a generic LFM and kicking people they don’t like. Even though it was always a speed run, people still specified it, every single time.

I think what needs to be said has been said for both sides. But I just wanna say, yeah didn’t have any problems getting groups, beating dungeons and lvling up when I was playing my alts. I don’t think that should be changed.

I’ve seen more braindead 80s that have caused more chain wipes than I’ve seen 38s.

Just because someone is max level doesn’t mean they are not an utter failure. And vice versa.

Imperatora.7654:

I’ve seen more braindead 80s that have caused more chain wipes than I’ve seen 38s.

Just because someone is max level doesn’t mean they are not an utter failure. And vice versa.

Your second statement seem to be not consistent with the first.

If level has no bearing on how well a person does then why do you personally see lvl 80s cause more wipes than lvl 38s? Wouldn’t your example imply that lower level is better?

DeathPanel.8362:

Imperatora.7654:

I’ve seen more braindead 80s that have caused more chain wipes than I’ve seen 38s.

Just because someone is max level doesn’t mean they are not an utter failure. And vice versa.

Your second statement seem to be not consistent with the first.

If level has no bearing on how well a person does then why do you personally see lvl 80s cause more wipes than lvl 38s? Wouldn’t your example imply that lower level is better?

Or it could simply mean lvl 80s are common while non-80s are not. I’d say it probably evens out.

Why don’t you just try starting a group and post that it’s a leveling group, that way, people who want token runs can go on with their business and you can have like minded people on your group.

I don’t think it’s fair either, and it really causes a train reaction. I have seen friends talk about since they’ve been getting kicked they are going to do the same thing to others, to take out their rage, which causes literally a train of misbehavior. It is such a sad thing to see. I don’t really think these people should get “Suspended” however I do think Anet should change the voting kick in dungeons. 2 people is not enough, it’s a team based game, everyone needs to say yes. Not just 2.

And for you nazi’s out there, I said train, not chain.

Just my 2 cents here….

The other night I got into AC exp group that contained a lvl 32 ele. I was quite skeptical and ask them if they understood that the dungeon was meant for lvl 35+ (exp mode). They said they knew the dungeon and we let them continue. Most of us were lvl 65+. Let me just say the lvl 32 ele did more than their share in the dungeon. Many times it was the lvl 32 that was reviving party members. It’s not the character or the lvl as much as it is the player and the experience they bring with them.

When someone asks to bring a lowbie to a lowbie dungeon, I look at the only heuristic this game has allowed me to develop: Achievement Points.

If you have >2k achievement points then I’m pretty confident you’ll do okay. >3k and I’m pretty sure you know what you’re doing. 4k or 5k is essentially a free pass to bring whatever you want.

<2k and I’ll definitely waffle a bit. If it’s not my guildie or personal friend, it is really bothersome to go through the process of making sure all their gear is level appropriate, ask them whether they’ve done the any dungeons before, make sure they haven’t made any other newbie mistakes in gearing or build, and take it on faith that they’ll be a team player and listen to instructions.

Eliyahu.1467:

When someone asks to bring a lowbie to a lowbie dungeon, I look at the only heuristic this game has allowed me to develop: Achievement Points.

If you have >2k achievement points then I’m pretty confident you’ll do okay. >3k and I’m pretty sure you know what you’re doing. 4k or 5k is essentially a free pass to bring whatever you want.

<2k and I’ll definitely waffle a bit. If it’s not my guildie or personal friend, it is really bothersome to go through the process of making sure all their gear is level appropriate, ask them whether they’ve done the any dungeons before, make sure they haven’t made any other newbie mistakes in gearing or build, and take it on faith that they’ll be a team player and listen to instructions.

I’m usually not too picky when it comes to who is in my group, but are Achievement points are a pretty decent indicator or is it still a leap of faith? I’ve only ever really run AC, but I don’t think I’ve ever had such awful runs that I’d segregate all non-80s from future groups.

IamDuddits.1692:

Eliyahu.1467:

When someone asks to bring a lowbie to a lowbie dungeon, I look at the only heuristic this game has allowed me to develop: Achievement Points.

If you have >2k achievement points then I’m pretty confident you’ll do okay. >3k and I’m pretty sure you know what you’re doing. 4k or 5k is essentially a free pass to bring whatever you want.

<2k and I’ll definitely waffle a bit. If it’s not my guildie or personal friend, it is really bothersome to go through the process of making sure all their gear is level appropriate, ask them whether they’ve done the any dungeons before, make sure they haven’t made any other newbie mistakes in gearing or build, and take it on faith that they’ll be a team player and listen to instructions.

I’m usually not too picky when it comes to who is in my group, but are Achievement points are a pretty decent indicator or is it still a leap of faith? I’ve only ever really run AC, but I don’t think I’ve ever had such awful runs that I’d segregate all non-80s from future groups.

It’s definitely not incredibly reliable, but high achievement points generally means this guy has an alt or alts that he’s relatively experienced with. That player could easily be awful at dungeons anyway and a newer player can definitely be more than competent in AC but those scenarios are less likely.

I’ve had some pretty awful people in AC groups on the level of dying to everything and being completely unable to run past mobs thus forcing the rest of the group to clear everything just for their sole benefit.

I take dungeon newbies from my guild on runs all the time where I spell everything out for them on TeamSpeak, but when I’m pugging it up I simply do not have the time or patience to hold someone’s hand through the instance.

It could be. I know I didn’t bother worrying about achievement points until they introduced laurels. I figured, before, dailies and all that were if you were aiming to get cool stuff from the mystic forge which I wasn’t interested in.

Now that ascended gear is on the list, I need my kittenuff. I probably had <3k achievement points before the last update since I practically never did that stuff. Now, I’m pushing close to 3.5k. I wouldn’t say I’m a great dungeon player, but I know what I’m doing, I keep learning new tricks and most important of all, I do dungeons because they’re fun. I think that last part comes with various other advantages like having patience with others, being flexible in how runs go, and seek challenge rather than exploiting mobs (which is bad!).

This is actually a real problem with a lot of branching issues. its the first dungeon and honestly they are all around the same difficulty. so AC explore is a good indication of what the rest of the dungeons will be in difficulty. Now the branching problem is just coming in you get kicked from groups all the time JUST because youre not level 80 which should NEVER be the case. a good fix may be the ability to look at someones gear and make a decent judgement about the person which u cant do or even look at their build. Now i can go in at level 35 on my Minion master necromancer build. have around 8,000 HP and around 1,200 armor and good damage ( which is very good scaled down to 35) and always be the last to die while still pumping out good damage.

Ive been playing MMOs since everquest ( a long time) even done 200 man raids. But im kicked simply because im playing the game at a point that i should be and judged simply by other players mistakes? its a MMO for christ sake. Thousands upon thousands of people play it and you cant blame 50% of the players because of the other 50%. achievement pts do work but like i said. years upon years of MMO experience. achievement pts arnt going to show that.

People just dont understand you are scaled down. All you are missing are some major traits which do not make or break the class. ive done AC explore about 15 times a week since the game came out. I can tell you almost anything about it. But im kicked from the group for someone who crafted their way to level 80 or did really really easy pve content? Even something to show how many times youve done a dungeon ect would be a boon at this point so you can actually tell hey this guy has done it 1,000 times and hes level 35. This guy is level 80 but only done it 6 times. I wonder who will do better?

Ive been in groups with 80s and always last to die and “i” actually have to carry them not the other way around. keep in mind almost EVERYONE stacks nothing but prec/cond/power stats and while that is fun to blow the crap out of mobs it is NOT the answer to smooth dungeon runs. Having something like thoughness/power/vit will still allow you to do damage and take hits and were talking taking 3-5 hits as prec/cond/power vs 15-30 toughness/power/XXX. This allows you to do things like stand directly ontop of kohler while he wails on you and you rez people he killed without even dieing maybe not even get to 50% doing this.

Quite frankly im ashamed in players doing this. imagine being fired from burger king (a job) simply because you arnt 30+ years old. its one of the first steps in the work force but NOPE! gotta be 30+ to work. That idea is idiotic as such is the idea of kicking playes from the starting dungeon because they are level 35+ ( the actual level of the dungeon) and not 80.

When I see “lvl 80 experienced and geared” for ac on the lfg site it makes me want to pull out my ebon blade greatsword and poke both my eyes out.