Guild Wars 2

Hey everyone, so I’m interested in getting back into daily or semi daily fractal runs after quitting them for the past month and half so that I could grind the normal dungeons for my legendary, but I’m now interested in running fractals again once more for a number of reasons:
1. free 20 slots bags for all my alts
2. Need a zerker backpiece (been using ascended cavalier back all this time :o)
3. More fractal skins! Getting the fractal GS in a level 25 was awesome.
4. Ascended chests. I’m honestly too cheap to spend the gold to level my crafting disciplines just to make a couple of also expensive weapons. I’d honestly rather delete all my dragonite and bloodstone and just do fractals and hope I get enough drops, as I plan on making another legendary or two for my other characters as time goes by.

Anyway, I have to pick a class to use for fractals. My official main is necro which I use mainly in WvW, and since they’re sadly ineficcient in dungeons unless the next patch gives them cleave, I’d have to use one of my alts for the best results. So I’m deciding between mesmer, ele, thief, and ranger. I’m leaning towards mesmer or ranger though, since I honestly hate playing ele now, and I feel like mesmer could be better in fractals just for the reflect potential. And ranger I might use because I have howler on my necromancer, so I could use it on my ranger for extra AR.

Also I left off at like level 28 fractal level or so. And this was before the mai trin buff, so I want to be equipped to handle her.

So any advice you guys have is appreciated!

If you are taking PUG groups then ele is seen as top tier along with guardian and warrior. Mesmer and thief are second tier. Necro and ranger are bottom tier. Engies are probably second tier if anyone ever saw one. We all know that any class can be played fantastically well etc etc etc but for ease of getting groups, not getting kicked, fitting into PUG tactics, and so on, those are the tiers.

If you’re playing with guildies or plan to be a total elite runner then do what you want. If you’re going to make ascended gear then remember that it is account bound now and this could influence your choices.

I have pugged nearly all of my fractal runs and I’m inclined to suggest mesmer from the classes you mentioned. Thief doesn’t have a particular up or down side, I think. Ranger is often said to be “good if you know how to play one, but few know how to play it”, so pugs don’t always welcome a ranger with open arms. And even though it pains me to say it, as I consider my Necro my main, Necros have little to contribute to the group.

Ele is good as well, but if you don’t enjoy playing them, you shouldn’t. It’s a game and you should enjoy your time online (although that’s not always a given when pugging^^)

As said above, the classes that will fit you into PUG fractals nicely are guardian, warrior, ele and mesmer.

Also as said above, despite how great a good ranger can be to a dungeon/fractal party, because there are SO many bad rangers PUGs don’t really welcome them as easily. But if you invest time into learning ranger for fractals/dungeons, then mention you’re running such and such a build as you join (sorry for not knowing the specifics, all I know about rangers is spotter!), they should have no reason to kick you really, and you will be a great addition to the party. But you must must must learn how to be a party-friendly ranger!

In high level fractals the effectiveness order pretty much goes as follows:

1. Elementalist/Guardian

2. Warrior

3. Thief

4. Engie/mesmer

5. Ranger

6. Necromancer

However when pugging guardian is probably your safest bet

Painbow.6059:

In high level fractals the effectiveness order pretty much goes as follows:

1. Elementalist/Guardian

2. Warrior

3. Thief

4. Engie/mesmer

5. Ranger

6. Necromancer

However when pugging guardian is probably your safest bet

This is extremely accurate imo. I separated them for you though (I placed mesmer before engineer because in my honest opinion a mesmer offers more valuable utility to FotM considering how freakin’ awesome portals are along with time warp, but it’s a close call):

1. Guardian
2. Elementalist
3. Warrior
4. Thief
5. Mesmer
6. Engineer
7. Ranger
8. Necromancer

elementalists effective in fractals ahahahahahahahahahaha

maha.7902:

elementalists effective in fractals ahahahahahahahahahaha

What, are you trying to solo with yours or something?

I don’t even know what an ele offers to make it #1/#2.

maha.7902:

elementalists effective in fractals ahahahahahahahahahaha

Only bad eles are ineffective in fractals. If you actually played ele regularly in fractals you would realise they can provide everything except for stealth and portal.

My ranking for classes in fractals would be this:

1. Ele, Engi, Guard, Mes, Thief, War
2. Ranger
3. Necro

Composition doesnt matter anywhere near as much as familiarity and comfortability with the class you are playing.

maha.7902:

I don’t even know what an ele offers to make it #1/#2.

Let me know if I missed anything.

-party-wide projectile block with swirling winds
-best might-stacking and party-wide fury potential out of all other classes, and they don’t even hinder their own damage output to do so
-very good vuln stacking which is very important for FotM, especially with FGS rushing but even burning speed + camera angled down or lightning flash is insanely good for it
-ice bow’s ice storm is one of the most powerful and amazing attacks to utilize in boss fights and deep freeze is by far one of the best cc abilities in the game.
-sandstorm for blind fields
-rock elemental for blocking old tom’s projectiles which is one of the only things that work besides untraited wardens apparently

To be honest I think the fury + might + deep freeze is more than enough to put elementalists as one of the best assets to a FotM team.

So let’s see. Thieves provide blinds and stealth, guardians provide projectile defense, aegis, blinds, CC, protection. Warriors provide passive buffs through banners, maybe EA. Engineer can do projectile defense, vuln stacking, stealth, CC. Warrior or engi can handle might easy, especially if it’s a phalanx warrior. On top of that, they’re all pretty tanky classes unlike ele so they can take a hit when damage inevitably goes through. Mesmer works for little portal gimmicks and I suppose is a nice QoL class. Seems to me an ele is just a filler class where you can take them because … well why not.

The only cc you really want to be making use of on bosses besides a few encounters like the subject 6 with fear me is deep freeze.

“Warrior or engi can handle might easy, especially if it’s a phalanx warrior.”

I already mentioned that eles are capable of doing it without totally tanking in their own personal DPS. It’s a well-known fact that might and fury outsourced from an ele proves to be more effective party-wide DPS. You also didn’t even mention fury. Where is your party outsourcing all of their fury from without persisting flames? I’m well aware of how many things engineers are capable of, but I find it weird that you’d rather have a phalanx warrior over an ele. I would much rather prefer to do FotM with an ele that knows what they’re doing than without, but I’ll agree that they’re squishy as f***k.

Thrill of the crime and FGJ. If you go double warrior, well that’s double FGJ. And phalanx warrior just needs to press 2 to might stack, it’s just easy access. If you want to pre stack, well they can just go gs/lb or go gs/axe mace and swap out the gs and mace quickly for fire and/or blasts. I see fractals as something where there’s actually damage that will go through, and a warrior will cope with that and maintain rotation easier than an ele which will just get tickled and explode. Hell you could probably even go 3w/1g/1t and brain afk faceroll everything, that ancient class comp actually has pretty competitive dps, spades and spades of survivability and pretty much all of the relevant support functions covered.

Yeah its true the safer option is better for most groups. You need to be really comfortable with ele to make it work. But it is still a top class. Im far more comfortable on ele than i am on warrior in all fractals except for mai. And dunno about others but i find guardian much harder to survive on than ele. Maybe thats because i play ele/mesmer almost exclusively in fractals? Or maybe its the range of lightning whip? One thing is for certain my groups fractals started going a lot smoother when me and deSade started using ele. We rarely use more than 1 though.

spoj.9672:

Only bad eles are ineffective in fractals.

Miku also forgot to mention AoE condi clear on focus, nigh-perma chill/cripple to kite annoying bosses with focus and glyph of elemental power, the potential for coordinated deep freezes to incapacitate said bosses, and the ridiculous nuking potential against large bosses like Bloomhunger, dredge bosses, and Molten Duo using staff. Good eles definitely deserve a spot at the top in fractals.

I didn’t forget deep freezes

But thanks for adding to the list. I just remembered how awesome it is to have imbued shaman chilled for when he gets his shield up.

Purple Miku.7032:

I didn’t forget deep freezes

But thanks for adding to the list. I just remembered how awesome it is to have imbued shaman chilled for when he gets his shield up.

Immobilized is even better. :P

My bad, Miku. You totally included deep freeze. I was actually referring to how good parties will freeze, strip defiant and freeze again to set up long, coordinated bursts. I saw a lot of that in the KING tournament over the weekend. One of the things that makes eles top tier is that fact that a good ele alone is good, but a good ele with a good party is amazing.

Eles are bad in PUGs. I can’t tell you the amount of time I spend rezing downed Eles. I rather have a necro who survives than an ele getting constantly downed.

In organized groups, or not even organized just a group that’s all on the same page and knows what to do, ele is absolutely amazing.

I feel every party should have 2 Eles, Warrior, Guardian and a random 5th. I would prefer thief for that spot.

I don’t think eles shine as much in Fractals as they do in most dungeons since you can’t just wall stack and FGS through everything, but they’re certainly a good addition to any group.

Mesmers, I think, are getting a bit underrated in this thread. Their DPS may not be beastly, but they have great usefulness through their high accessibility to reflects and group condition removal. Having at least 1 guard or mesmer, I would argue, is mandatory for serious groups considering how big of a difference reflects make in certain fights.

Ele’s are very strong in fractals and I don’t know how people can debate over that, you got perma fury and high might stacking on every body in the party, decent vuln with weak spot, and especially when using fgs, big aoe damage and very big aoe damage against larger targets, conjures, 300 range auto attack e.g lightning whip which makes bosses like mai trin/archdiviner easy to survive on, but on trash yes eles are pretty squishy. You basically got a lot of damage, support and control on ele in fractals, and if played right they can benefit the group massively

I find that people tend to really overestimate the amount of might they can maintain with fire-field blasts in fractals. For the long boss fights, pre-stacked might falls off quickly. In theory you might be able to keep up decent might if everyone in the party was watching for the ele fire field and blasting through-out. But i find that rarely if ever happens – once the fight starts the focus shifts towards staying alive rather then excuting perfect dps rotations.

Take a look at rT’s run in the recent fractal tournament. They have 2 ele’s so theoretically might would not be a problem- but watch the first ettin fight. They maintain between 10-20 stacks, very rarely spiking above 20 on some members. The asura boss is the same – once pre-stacked might wore off everyone pretty much stayed below 20 might. And again at the snowblind final boss. This is not me trying to take a shot at those players – I want to point out even at high level play, with an organized team with 2 eles, maintaining 23-25 might in long fights is an unrealistic expectation. Phalanx warrior can provide this by simply executing his dps rotation, at a cost to some personal dps.

What an ele does bring is fgs. It’s a high-risk high-reward strategy in fractals, and the ele itself can be hard to keep alive. But honestly, its a speed-run tactic, and I would put it in the same category as the mesmer portal. If your talking about pug/casual strats, a guardian-war-thief can do everything an ele can do with a lot less risk.

I don’t think ele’s are bad in fractals, I think they are quite good. But I think they are over-rated, especially in pug situations.

This thread makes me entertained but I still haven’t had enough coffee to comment from a newbie ele point of view. What I’m gonna say is that I feel most comfortable on my ele when I encounter Mai Trin, all out ez mode.

To be honest you shouldnt be relying on ele for might in fractals. You rely on them for fury. Although a D/F ele with strength runes actually maintains a huge amount of might even with imperfect rotations. I agree on one thing though. Its almost always better to have a phalanx warrior in fractals. But that doesnt mean you shouldnt take some eles aswell.

1. Guardian
2. Elementalist
3. Warrior
4. Mesmer
5. Necromancer
6. Ranger
7. Thief
8. Engineer

There is not only dps differently from what people pretends on the forums.
Unique tactics from different professions makes them more desirable than doing good stuff other professions already do.

Ele has some advantages nowaday in fractals:

1) (mostly)ranged dps on par with top melee dps (and melee is not Always possible)
2) Aoes
3) Icebow 5
4) Burst
5) scepter/focus with the 02066 build to carry the Group if they can t get past something. (provide absolute survival+in battle might stacking+ burst with icebow+ ressing,healing cond cleansing capabilities+ defiant removal).

@purple miku…they fixed LF+FGS a month ago…. and i don t really think in a fractal a SD ele is that good compared to staff….
That is infact Destroying your personal DPS (In fractals) unless you use LH….goodluck with it

P.S. FYI i recently took a couple weeks noticing wich trait was better in pug runs between:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Persisting_Flames
and
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pyromancer%27s_Puissance

Even with a SD ele in party, most times the second won by far unless there was a phalanx warrior.

(i use 64202 staff mostly for some reasons)

I feel people are completely over valuing the effectiveness of fiery crutchsword in fractals. I had a quick think about the fights and bosses and you don’t actually spend as much time sitting in corners as you do in dungeons. I mean the chances of getting rushes off on ashym or the thaumanova anomaly are like, zero. I would put my rankings as like guardian > engi > thief > warrior > mesmer > ele or something.

You dont even use fgs most of the time in fractals. Ele being good in fractals has nothing to do with fgs.

LordByron.8369:

1. Guardian
2. Elementalist
3. Warrior
4. Mesmer
5. Necromancer
6. Ranger
7. Thief
8. Engineer

Necro… placed fifth? I mean I too think the necro shines a bit more in fractals than he does in dungeons since different kinds of utilities can be quite helpful (especially if other classes are missing), but what makes you place him fifth?

Yep
Differently from dungeons i love necro in fractals if they are good.
Given the fact that you can adapt their skills to many fights

CC and boon stripping are 2 really useful things in fractals.
Vulnerability and Chill are also awesome.

The majority of posts listing ele’s strengths in fractals don’t even mention FGS. Most groups lack the coordination or skill to rush bosses like Mossman, but that doesn’t mean the profession’s other strengths are suddenly gone.

You all keep ignoring that you can cover everything an ele is worth taking for in a non-ele composition.

But you can cover everything that composition covers with just an ele.

I honestly think engi, guard, thief, double warrior is a solid comp and has the benefit of no squishy classes . Adding an ele just adds risk for not much gain.

Hi dungeon peoples, I’m the OP!

I’ve decided to not regularly pug fractals again after trying on my mesmer 2 days ago. I was in a less than perfect group for a level 29, and while we completed it, it took two hours, and it was honestly a painful, gut wrenching experience. Maybe it would’ve gone better on my necro, that I’m much more comfortable with. On the plus side I got the 5th Rurik’s Royal Signet Ring (uninfused) that I’ve gotten in the history of playing this game!

Maybe I’ll give faptals another shot in the future, but I’m too busy with WvW/GvG and doing more rewarding PvE to really worry about them right now. But thanks for all the advice!

I got halfway through writing a reply and then decided not to bother.

If you can’t see why an Ele is an asset to ANY party, then you’re clearly trying to be stubborn on purpose and there’s no point persuading you otherwise.

Even just using a D/F in fractals we provide way more Might and Fury than any other class as well as a ton of utilities, not to mention very solid DPS. Sounds like you’ve had a classic case of playing with bad Ele’s.

I’m pretty sure no one is saying that eles aren’t an asset, at least not from my brief skimming of the thread. It’s just that there are other team comps that do well that do not require an ele. I’ve been in a group with 2 wars, 1 guard/mes/thief and it went smooth. I’ve also been in the same type of group comp with other people where it hasn’t. It all depends on the people and play styles. Eles do bring a lot to the team, however a poor ele most of the time can lead to a not so great run.

No, you do not provide more might than a phalanx warrior. Here’s the thing – ele ha uses, but I’ve already mentioned other classes can cover them. It’s like saying a mes is good because they have reflect, CC and condi cleanse. Well yeah, they do, but so do guardians. I find it hard to rank a completely replaceable class as #1.

JasmineLong.6514:

I’m pretty sure no one is saying that eles aren’t an asset, at least not from my brief skimming of the thread. It’s just that there are other team comps that do well that do not require an ele. I’ve been in a group with 2 wars, 1 guard/mes/thief and it went smooth. I’ve also been in the same type of group comp with other people where it hasn’t. It all depends on the people and play styles. Eles do bring a lot to the team, however a poor ele most of the time can lead to a not so great run.

You could say that about any class though. I’ve been in parties with really bad warriors but that doesn’t make me think “right, don’t bring a warrior again because they’re all just GS Signet noobs who spam hundred blades”.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve played with pretty poor Ele’s myself and it’s made me cringe at my own class but that can’t be said for all Ele’s and when you do have a decent Ele it doesn’t become a debate anymore. Especially in Fractals… The Uncategorized Fractal comes to mind especially. Being able to block Harpy projectiles to prevent knockbacks and practically solo’ing Old Tom while stood at the Fan with Meteor Shower/Frost Bow/FGS makes it a breeze.

maha.7902:

No, you do not provide more might than a phalanx warrior. Here’s the thing – ele ha uses, but I’ve already mentioned other classes can cover them. It’s like saying a mes is good because they have reflect, CC and condi cleanse. Well yeah, they do, but so do guardians. I find it hard to rank a completely replaceable class as #1.

I’m not familiar with a Phalanx warrior. Could you tell me what exactly they provide?

I just find it hard to believe there’s another class out there that easily maintains 15+ Might and Perma-fury without having to compromise their own DPS at all.

You can say that about any class…so I don’t see the issue. Every class has something to bring to the team, it just depends on comp and play style but I honestly feel that there isn’t a class that is REQUIRED in fractals in order to make it successful.

JasmineLong.6514:

You can say that about any class…so I don’t see the issue. Every class has something to bring to the team, it just depends on comp and play style but I honestly feel that there isn’t a class that is REQUIRED in fractals in order to make it successful.

You say this but then no post has argued about Warriors/Guards being in every composite.

I’m not saying an Ele has to be in a run for it to be successful, in fact I don’t think anybody has hinted that at all… but if there’s one available it certainly doesn’t hurt to take one.

Grimezy.5679:

maha.7902:

No, you do not provide more might than a phalanx warrior. Here’s the thing – ele ha uses, but I’ve already mentioned other classes can cover them. It’s like saying a mes is good because they have reflect, CC and condi cleanse. Well yeah, they do, but so do guardians. I find it hard to rank a completely replaceable class as #1.

I’m not familiar with a Phalanx warrior. Could you tell me what exactly they provide?

I just find it hard to believe there’s another class out there that easily maintains 15+ Might and Perma-fury without having to compromise their own DPS at all.

Phalanx strength warrior (05063) can provide might to the team every time they themselves get might. With strength runes and a greatsword it is typical for a PS warrior to output 25 might to the team on basically a permanent basis. The only issue with this that people may call it an issue is that they cannot prestack might all that well since their might stacking ability mostly comes from in battle.

JasmineLong.6514:

Grimezy.5679:

maha.7902:

No, you do not provide more might than a phalanx warrior. Here’s the thing – ele ha uses, but I’ve already mentioned other classes can cover them. It’s like saying a mes is good because they have reflect, CC and condi cleanse. Well yeah, they do, but so do guardians. I find it hard to rank a completely replaceable class as #1.

I’m not familiar with a Phalanx warrior. Could you tell me what exactly they provide?

I just find it hard to believe there’s another class out there that easily maintains 15+ Might and Perma-fury without having to compromise their own DPS at all.

Phalanx strength warrior (05063) can provide might to the team every time they themselves get might. With strength runes and a greatsword it is typical for a PS warrior to output 25 might to the team on basically a permanent basis. The only issue with this that people may call it an issue is that they cannot prestack might all that well since their might stacking ability mostly comes from in battle.

Okay so why not take a Phalanx strength warrior and combine it with a staff ele (which is currently our highest dps set assuming Might can be outsourced) and then have the best of both worlds?

You’d have fantastic damage at bosses due to Meteor shower/Frost bow and standard rotations in fire. You could be blasting Water fields in tricky situations for better survivability, etc etc.

Why not take something like 1 phalanx, 1 dps warr, 1 staff ele, 1 hammer guard, 1 thief?

Cut the staff ele for an engi – tadaa, similar dps but you actually have vuln stacking on top of it!

maha.7902:

Cut the staff ele for an engi – tadaa, similar dps but you actually have vuln stacking on top of it!

Why not just order a mass-deletion of people’s Ele’s while we’re at it? Clearly they’re good for nothing.

Nice hyperbole. I’m starting to feel like Guang here, I express a view which is in contrast to elementalist fellatio and I get a bunch of people frothing at me. It feels like I’m posting in the guild wars 2 discussion forum with the amount of stupidity flying around.

JasmineLong.6514:

Grimezy.5679:

maha.7902:

No, you do not provide more might than a phalanx warrior. Here’s the thing – ele ha uses, but I’ve already mentioned other classes can cover them. It’s like saying a mes is good because they have reflect, CC and condi cleanse. Well yeah, they do, but so do guardians. I find it hard to rank a completely replaceable class as #1.

I’m not familiar with a Phalanx warrior. Could you tell me what exactly they provide?

I just find it hard to believe there’s another class out there that easily maintains 15+ Might and Perma-fury without having to compromise their own DPS at all.

Phalanx strength warrior (05063) can provide might to the team every time they themselves get might. With strength runes and a greatsword it is typical for a PS warrior to output 25 might to the team on basically a permanent basis. The only issue with this that people may call it an issue is that they cannot prestack might all that well since their might stacking ability mostly comes from in battle.

Edit: OK, I was way too slow with that reply, carry on without reading if you wish.

Depending on the encounter I’d say 20 stacks of might for a phalanx warrior are easily maintained. If you don’t need your off hand swordblock much for example you can get to 25 in most situations. If you can cleave something you will be at 25 stacks, almost no matter what you do.

What is correct, you can’t give perma fury to your team, you can only generate permanent fury uptime for yourself and partial for the team.
But in fractals (at least in my experience, I’ve never played the ele in fractals myself) your ability to maintain perma fury with an ele can easily be compromised by a (hammer) guard or s/p thief who tries to lay down perma blind. There are other fields that might interfere as well like a mesmer’s feedback.
And all of those few examples are actually useful skills and problems can arise even when placed with care.

I’ll give the fact that a warrior going phalanx sacifices personal dps to do so. But I guess at least one warrior in the group will trait for EA and with that is already halfway down that road anyway.

And that is ignoring the squishiness/not so squishy aspect of the entire situation.

Grimezy.5679:

maha.7902:

Cut the staff ele for an engi – tadaa, similar dps but you actually have vuln stacking on top of it!

Why not just order a mass-deletion of people’s Ele’s while we’re at it? Clearly they’re good for nothing.

You’re taking these comments too personal IMO. No one said screw eles in fractals, just showing different comps. A ps war and an engi are a great combo for might and vuln since they can keep it up a lot better than other comps. Nothing is wrong with an ele in fractals but we can do without one and still manage. This is a PHIW game after all ;D